Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

AdNani said:
Certain posters on this site deserve the shite we have been served the last 10 years, imagine hiring a young up and coming manager who has thrived with a certain style and then after 2 training sessions and 1 game people are saying he should abandon the style that got him hired for a style that suits the players that have served up a 8th and currently 12th place finish in the league. HE doesn't need to adapt to anyone, THEY need to adapt to him.
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I agree but... there is a balance to be struck.

In his first season ETH was criticised by some for abandoning his system, then last season he decided to try a new system without a midfield which he persisted with for the majority of the season leading to awful football and the most disastrous records in most peoples living memory.

At some point a manager has to reconcile the payers he has available and the system he wants to play and make adaptions to get the best out of both, in order to buy time to get the right players in.

If after a dozen games we are playing awful football, haemorrhaging goals and points then Amorim needs to make concessions, I accept the little pain, I accept it may be a lot of pain but there is a difference between pain and stupidity.

It will take at least a couple of windows for Amorim to start to really shape the squad to suit his system, we cannot go from zero to 100% in a couple of games with the squad we have, and as he says himself we must win games in order to get the time...

Please do not misquote or misinterpret me, I absolutely have no issue with Amorim right now or anything he has done, my argument is purely hypothetical, I have 100% faith that we will see an improvement game by game, that Amorim is the man and that in time he will be successful here, but I also do not subscribe to the "to hell with it" argument he has to stick rigidly to a system irrespective of anything else, I also think that Amorim is intelligent enough to find the balance between progress and sustainability, he will adapt, he will get the best out of what he has and make the progress we need.
 
I hope the board knew what it meant to hire Amorim. That means whenever a player kicks up a fuss they need to be behind the coach all the way. And not caring about the players value, reputation, commercial ability, etc.
 
Watching Sporting get demolished last night has made me even more confident about him. They fell apart without him.

Then again so did Ajax after Ten Hag I suppose...
 
Blood Mage said:
Watching Sporting get demolished last night has made me even more confident about him. They fell apart without him.

Then again so did Ajax after Ten Hag I suppose...
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Difference being Ajax lost their best players, Sporting have not (yet).
 
Highfather_24 said:
Keeping ETH over the summer and giving him 200M looks more and more bad every passing day.

Spineless decision.
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Or you know the signings were made because those above ETH also agreed about signing those players? They are the ultimate decision makers and they could have easily stopped the deals if it didn't make sense for them as well.

"Giving him". :lol:
Judas said:
No one will ever convince me that decision made sense. I'm yet to see an argument even remotely good. Still its been done to death thousands of times.
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So are we already writing off Mazraoui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Yoro and Zirkzee? Amorim can't improve them? Quick change the head coach then cause we've got another who can't get the best out of the players.

Or do you they are so useless and it was purely down to luck that Mazraoui and De Ligt ended up playing for Bayern, Ugarte for PSG and Yoro and Zirkzee being key players for their teams which qualified for CL?
 
Whilst
saik said:
Or you know the signings were made because those above ETH also agreed about signing those players? They are the ultimate decision makers and they could have easily stopped the deals if it didn't make sense for them as well.

"Giving him". :lol:

So are we already writing off Mazraoui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Yoro and Zirkzee? Amorim can't improve them? Quick change the head coach then cause we've got another who can't get the best out of the players.

Or do you they are so useless and it was purely down to luck that Mazraoui and De Ligt ended up playing for Bayern, Ugarte for PSG and Yoro and Zirkzee being key players for their teams which qualified for CL?
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There is a difference between useless and fits the style of the coach. Why do you think Bayern got rid of Mazraoui and De Ligt and PSG Ugarte? Thats right. Didnt fit the coaches/managers system. Not that they were bad players. Only Man Utd persist with fitting in players to systems they dont suit.
 
saik said:
Or you know the signings were made because those above ETH also agreed about signing those players? They are the ultimate decision makers and they could have easily stopped the deals if it didn't make sense for them as well.

"Giving him". :lol:

So are we already writing off Mazraoui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Yoro and Zirkzee? Amorim can't improve them? Quick change the head coach then cause we've got another who can't get the best out of the players.

Or do you they are so useless and it was purely down to luck that Mazraoui and De Ligt ended up playing for Bayern, Ugarte for PSG and Yoro and Zirkzee being key players for their teams which qualified for CL?
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Its not about whether we have bought good/bad players. Its about having a squad that fits the style of play of the manager. There's no point having great inverting fullbacks like Dalot/Mazraoui, when the new managers needs wingbacks. Or how among all our 6 CBs, arguably only 2 of them fits the new managers style of play. Or getting a 9.5, or having wingers like Rashford/Garnacho when we need inside forwards. Our squad is simply not built for Amorim ball(yet), and that's okay. What's not okay is we wasted the summer, when we could have shaped our squad to his style, and got a proper preseason in.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Whilst

There is a difference between useless and fits the style of the coach. Why do you think Bayern got rid of Mazraoui and De Ligt and PSG Ugarte? Thats right. Didnt fit the coaches/managers system. Not that they were bad players. Only Man Utd persist with fitting in players to systems they dont suit.
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Injuries(Mazraoui) and high salary(De Ligt)? People are just being silly if they think we signed these players because of ETH and those above him didn't consider the fact ETH won't be around come the end of the season.

These players were signed because Ashworth, Berrada and co. also believed they were improvements to our squad so it's upto the head coach now to get the best of them.

Will Amorims system work? Probably. We are way too early to draw any meaningful conclusions about how the players fit/don't fit his system. And if he is as highly rated as he is, he should be able to coach these players to fit into his system. Apart from one or two players I don't see these players as being uncoachable.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Its not about whether we have bought good/bad players. Its about having a squad that fits the style of play of the manager. There's no point having great inverting fullbacks like Dalot/Mazraoui, when the new managers needs wingbacks. Or how among all our 6 CBs, arguably only 2 of them fits the new managers style of play. Or getting a 9.5, or having wingers like Rashford/Garnacho when we need inside forwards. Our squad is simply not built for Amorim ball(yet), and that's okay. What's not okay is we wasted the summer, when we could have shaped our squad to his style, and got a proper preseason in.
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Want want want is what this post is.

Firstly, Mazroui can play anywhere.. so I am not sure why you think he is an inverting player. Secondly, Dalot in his loan spell played RWB at Milan.

Finally, we did not sign Rashford/ Garnacho and Zikzee is a 9.5 who needs time to adapt.

Out of the 6 CB's 2 fit his stye? De Ligt is a good ball playing CB for the CCB role, Yoro is a good CB for the RCB role, Licha is okay for LCB..

Finally, I dont know how many times it has to be said that Amorim wanted to stay an extra season at Sporting is the first point. On top of that, we didn't even have our structure sorted until mid July when pre season had already started.

This is not football manager.
 
We have a really good keeper for this style.

Yoro is really well suited to the RCB role and Mazraoui can do an excellent job there too.

De Ligt is an excellent option for the central CB role and Maguire offers a good back up.

Martinez will be superb as a passing LCB. I don’t see how people don’t see that as a good fit once he’s comfortable in the role. Shaw is a really good back up there.

Wingbacks is an issue because we haven’t had to have them before. Dalot and Malacia are options in the short term but this will obviously have to be addressed.

Ugarte and Mainoo are great options for the two deeper midfielders. Eriksen and Casemiro will have to be replaced but that would be true for any coach and any system.

Bruno, Amad and Mount are fantastic options for the two no10 spots.

Hojlund has all the tools for Amorim to shape him into a great option at 9.

What this is going to take is time. We will need greater depth in certain areas and wingbacks will need to be addressed, but first and foremost is an acceptance that fellas aren’t going to look the finished article in a new system after a weeks training.

There are players that might not ever be great fits for the system. Personally I suspect Rashford and Garnacho may not be here in 2 years time. But we do have 15 or 16 players who are perfectly well suited to flourishing in this setup as well as a great crop of young talent ready to break through in the next couple of years. All the doom and gloom and declarations that everyone and everything is shit are way OTT.
 
romufc said:
Want want want is what this post is.

Firstly, Mazroui can play anywhere.. so I am not sure why you think he is an inverting player. Secondly, Dalot in his loan spell played RWB at Milan.

Finally, we did not sign Rashford/ Garnacho and Zikzee is a 9.5 who needs time to adapt.

Out of the 6 CB's 2 fit his stye? De Ligt is a good ball playing CB for the CCB role, Yoro is a good CB for the RCB role, Licha is okay for LCB..

Finally, I dont know how many times it has to be said that Amorim wanted to stay an extra season at Sporting is the first point. On top of that, we didn't even have our structure sorted until mid July when pre season had already started.

This is not football manager.
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Thank you for saving me some time. Too many of the posters have written off our squad and think that we spunked a load on "ETH signings".

I'd say even Maguire is suited for the CCB. Didn't Sporting play with Coates there who is even slower than Maguire?

Amorim himself said Mount played in this type of system before so there's another player there.

Hojlund has many good attributes to be his Gyokeres-lite here.

He has Ugarte who he already worked with at Sporting before.

Mainoo who is still young enough to be moulded into the type of player he wants.

So yea, there's plenty for Amorim to work with here. And then we have new Sporting fans coming into this forum and say our squad is a shower of shite and then our own fans writing off our new signings.
 
saik said:
Or you know the signings were made because those above ETH also agreed about signing those players? They are the ultimate decision makers and they could have easily stopped the deals if it didn't make sense for them as well.

"Giving him". :lol:

So are we already writing off Mazraoui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Yoro and Zirkzee? Amorim can't improve them? Quick change the head coach then cause we've got another who can't get the best out of the players.

Or do you they are so useless and it was purely down to luck that Mazraoui and De Ligt ended up playing for Bayern, Ugarte for PSG and Yoro and Zirkzee being key players for their teams which qualified for CL?
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You’ve managed to take a whole lot from the tiny thing I said which was all to do with sticking with Ten Hag, nothing to do with who was signed.
 
Judas said:
You’ve managed to take a whole lot from the tiny thing I said which was all to do with sticking with Ten Hag, nothing to do with who was signed.
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Its because you didn't understand how it all works.
 
Blood Mage said:
Watching Sporting get demolished last night has made me even more confident about him. They fell apart without him.

Then again so did Ajax after Ten Hag I suppose...
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Ajax lost like 5 starting players the summer ETH left, this is the same Sporting Amorim had.
 
Judas said:
You’ve managed to take a whole lot from the tiny thing I said which was all to do with sticking with Ten Hag, nothing to do with who was signed.
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You responded to a post saying ETH was kept and given another 200m to waste this summer. Probably should have clarified it better than your issue with the decision was with keeping ETH and not regarding the transfers.
 
saik said:
You responded to a post saying ETH was kept and given another 200m to waste this summer. Probably should have clarified it better than your issue with the decision was with keeping ETH and not regarding the transfers.
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Already did that fella, and you’re still rattling on. Nothing more to say xx
 
Judas said:
Huh are you alright? You can patronize me all you like but I don’t know why you think you’re in a position to talk down to me. I wanted Ten Hag gone in the summer, that’s the long and short of it, nothing more.
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I am not talking down on you.. Well done you wanted him gone but keep bringing up... "We should have got Amorim in the summer" is not really right is it?

By continuously saying it, it wont make it true or change alot of the facts that you keep ignoring..
 

Smart man.



Took one game for him to realise Rashford isn't a striker. Gives me hope he sees things so clearly so quickly. Hope he's quick enough to change it if it isn't working for too long.
 
saik said:

Smart man.



Took one game for him to realise Rashford isn't a striker. Gives me hope he sees things so clearly so quickly. Hope he's quick enough to change it if it isn't working for too long.
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I am pretty sure Eth also realised some of the things pretty quickly (I mean if it's evident for random blokes in front of a screen...) however he was stubborn as a donkey before a bridge...
 
Judas said:
Already did that fella, and you’re still rattling on. Nothing more to say xx
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Not sure why you think I'm rattling when all I'm saying is my initial response wouldn't be here if your post had more clarity in the first place. It was a misunderstanding because of your post. But sure, you do you.
 
saik said:
Or you know the signings were made because those above ETH also agreed about signing those players? They are the ultimate decision makers and they could have easily stopped the deals if it didn't make sense for them as well.

"Giving him". :lol:

So are we already writing off Mazraoui, De Ligt, Ugarte, Yoro and Zirkzee? Amorim can't improve them? Quick change the head coach then cause we've got another who can't get the best out of the players.

Or do you they are so useless and it was purely down to luck that Mazraoui and De Ligt ended up playing for Bayern, Ugarte for PSG and Yoro and Zirkzee being key players for their teams which qualified for CL?
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Ineos bought good players: they are all technically more proficient than the players we have, and physical. The only one I have doubts about is Zirkzee, who may be too slow for the PL. Time will tell.
 
The Firestarter said:
I am pretty sure Eth also realised some of the things pretty quickly (I mean if it's evident for random blokes in front of a screen...) however he was stubborn as a donkey before a bridge...
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Yea, I'm hopeful for now. He knows the issues already so his job is to now address them. If he persists with something that is clearly not working for a long time then I'll lose faith in him.
 
saik said:

Smart man.



Took one game for him to realise Rashford isn't a striker. Gives me hope he sees things so clearly so quickly. Hope he's quick enough to change it if it isn't working for too long.
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Shut up Ruben. Sancho fans will come out of the closet and spin it as an insult to the player.
 
I think it’s super kneejerk if people are saying his 3-4-3 won’t work. I have more confidence in it working than with previous managers as we have a proper football setup in place this time, and not Woodward/Arnold/Glazers sitting in the back hoping for the best (i.e. miracles). The likes of Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox etc have most likely analysed this way forward inside and out.
 
Not sure what he means with those comments re. Rashford. Acknowledges his best position isn't upfront, but it's also quite obvious he isn't a ten to sit in behind either.

He basically saying he has to be better upfront or he's got no place in the squad?
 
Darlington Padgett said:
Ajax lost like 5 starting players the summer ETH left, this is the same Sporting Amorim had.
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Kind of.
1st of all, both games weren't that different in the 1st half. What changed was arsenal scored on the chances they had while city didn't. We could have been 3-0 down at half time with city as well, but not only didn't they score more, they let Gyökeres loose twice, which he capitalized once.
Again, like against city, we started the 2nd half strong. We scored once, had a few more chances, but didn't score again. And again, like in the city game, they got a penalty. Haaland missed, Saka didn't. That 4th goal killed any potential comeback.
Lastly, I don't want to crap on our players, but Pedro "Pote" Gonçalves was a very important piece of our win against city. Yesterday we played with Marcus Edwards, who's very inconsistent and had a real stinker.

All this to say that yes, Amorim leaving at this time was a blow, and yes, the new manager is still getting his bearings on the massive job he has ahead, but both games were very similar, we just didn't have fortune on our side yesterday like we did 3 weeks ago.

Lastly, it's interesting seeing those interactions in training. They did that A LOT here, with players getting "punished" by running the gauntlet when they break the rules.
 
AdNani said:
Certain posters on this site deserve the shite we have been served the last 10 years, imagine hiring a young up and coming manager who has thrived with a certain style and then after 2 training sessions and 1 game people are saying he should abandon the style that got him hired for a style that suits the players that have served up a 8th and currently 12th place finish in the league. HE doesn't need to adapt to anyone, THEY need to adapt to him.
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I genuinely believe some of our players think by default of being a Man United player they have made it. They are contented being superstars with big paychecks and winning is just secondary to them. The hunger and desire to win and keep winning is desperately lacking. Ruben is right. We need people like Roy Keane so much in the dressing room.
 
Ish said:
Not even sure it's just "our fans"....i think it's just that a fair share of humans are just genuinely thick.
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We're probably no thicker than other fan bases on proportion but our thickos are more magnified. Giving everyone a voice within a very large fanbase is a terrible idea.
 
Sporting4Ever said:
Kind of.
1st of all, both games weren't that different in the 1st half. What changed was arsenal scored on the chances they had while city didn't. We could have been 3-0 down at half time with city as well, but not only didn't they score more, they let Gyökeres loose twice, which he capitalized once.
Again, like against city, we started the 2nd half strong. We scored once, had a few more chances, but didn't score again. And again, like in the city game, they got a penalty. Haaland missed, Saka didn't. That 4th goal killed any potential comeback.
Lastly, I don't want to crap on our players, but Pedro "Pote" Gonçalves was a very important piece of our win against city. Yesterday we played with Marcus Edwards, who's very inconsistent and had a real stinker.

All this to say that yes, Amorim leaving at this time was a blow, and yes, the new manager is still getting his bearings on the massive job he has ahead, but both games were very similar, we just didn't have fortune on our side yesterday like we did 3 weeks ago.

Lastly, it's interesting seeing those interactions in training. They did that A LOT here, with players getting "punished" by running the gauntlet when they break the rules.
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Thank you for being objective. I didn't felt there was much difference in the general performance between both the games. As you said, fortune was on your side against City.
 
horsechoker said:
We're probably no thicker than other fan bases on proportion but our thickos are more magnified. Giving everyone a voice within a very large fanbase is a terrible idea.
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Yeah, I'd say due to the sheer size of our fanbase, we're probably one of the few clubs who'd veer closer to the societal mean in this metric (whatever that mean would be). Alas, even after just 1 away game & after 2 training sessions, plus a change in formation plus limited squad selection options....it's still extremely fascinating to see/read some opinions/reactions based on just that 1 game...
 
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