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[GodShaveTheQueen]

With that in mind I would put him comfortably ahead of Casillas and (based on my limited impressions) find it ridiculous to have him placed behind de Gea (no offense @GodShaveTheQueen I was a bit

I have long been of the impression that his sweeping abilities (as great as they maybe) are given way more weight than his putting the ball out abilities. I'd put almost everyone in my top 20 ahead of Neuer when it comes to putting the ball out. I never have and never will rate him ahead of De He's after watching them all my adulthood.

On Casillas, I took a pause from the discussion because it's clear that his role in the national team more or less been largely discounted. The fecking man literally won them the world cup and boy that was hardly his only moment of glory. To put him behind De Gea and ignore his howlers at the biggest stage of them all is never going to convince me. Let's not forget De Gea has hardly played in the biggest games of world football while Iker played in tonnes and excelled. As much as I love Dave, Saint Iker will remain the greatest Spanish keeper in my eyes. A gem of a man as well.

One last thing which would irk a few but David is never reaching the top 10 unless he shows ambition and leaves United or we suddenly become a good team again capable of competing at the highest level.

 

[harms]

So I can mainly base my impressions on CL and NT matches I have seen and I simply can't recall having seen a single special game of him. So I am not sure if I am underrating him because I have seen little of him or if you lot do indeed overrate him a bit. The next question that comes to mind is how many great keepers from leagues that weren't watched as closely are going under the radar here.

He’s had a few great games in CL, like this one against Madrid, but his best form came in the league. A season before last was possibly the best league season I’ve seen from a keeper, considering the absolute shambles of a defence he’s had in front of him. He just won us game by game, saving tons of points and dragging us to the 2nd place.

His NT form is horrendous. It looked like Casillas was unfairly picked for a couple of years when De Gea was already one of the best keepers in the world and Casillas was past it, but seeing him perform for Spain now, I’m not so sure anymore.

I still have hope that he’ll turn it around.

 

[Swarm]

I have long been of the impression that his sweeping abilities (as great as they maybe) are given way more weight than his putting the ball out abilities. I'd put almost everyone in my top 20 ahead of Neuer when it comes to putting the ball out. I never have and never will rate him ahead of De He's after watching them all my adulthood.

On Casillas, I took a pause from the discussion because it's clear that his role in the national team more or less been largely discounted. The fecking man literally won them the world cup and boy that was hardly his only moment of glory. To put him behind De Gea and ignore his howlers at the biggest stage of them all is never going to convince me. Let's not forget De Gea has hardly played in the biggest games of world football while Iker played in tonnes and excelled. As much as I love Dave, Saint Iker will remain the greatest Spanish keeper in my eyes. A gem of a man as well.

You may be right that I am overrating Neuer because his abilities are maybe more "flashy" and cover some weaknesses he may have. Still I think he is the only goalie I have seen so far that actively influenced the opposition teams build up and I rate this influence on the game very highly. Basically he oftentimes functioned as an eleventh outfield player the opposition had to keep in mind. Could you explain what you mean by "putting the ball out abilities"? Do you mean simple ball passing or shot stopping or control of his box?

Concerning the comparison to Casillas please note I rate Casillas very highly as well and far above de Gea. May, again, be down to the fact I have not seen a lot of the latters league performances.

 

[harms]

Lastly I was wondering about Seaman. Sure he was the last english goalkeeper that I would consider great in a broader sense but in an all time sense I find him incredibly average. What am I overlooking? Please keep in mind that I was quite young when I did see him play so my opinions on him may be complete crap

He was a very good keeper who is, perhaps unfairly, mostly remembered for his one mistake (and/or Ronaldinho’s moment of genius), but I was also a bit surprised to see him feature in some of the lists.

 

[Swarm]

He’s had a few great games in CL, like this one against Madrid, but his best form came in the league. A season before last was possibly the best league season I’ve seen from a keeper, considering the absolute shambles of a defence he’s had in front of him. He just won us game by game, saving tons of points and dragging us to the 2nd place.

His NT form is horrendous. It looked like Casillas was unfairly picked for a couple of years when De Gea was already one of the best keepers in the world and Casillas was past it, but seeing him perform for Spain now, I’m not so sure anymore.

I still have hope that he’ll turn it around.

I think this starts a question I've had in my mind that I find really interesting and wonder what take you guys have on this: how important is shot stopping ability for a great keeper? I feel in the modern game you really don't need to be exceptional in that regard (you should of course not be terrible at it either) but in the top teams that is not the main concern in a lot of cases. For example in Germany we have lots of great shot stopping goalies but I wouldn't want to see any of them at Dortmund. They can be great for weaker clubs but if you want to dominate possession you need a goalie that is able to properly pass a ball and anticipate situations as well as keep his focus for a game where he hardly has to do anything. What do you guys think about this?

 

[Fortitude]

I have long been of the impression that his sweeping abilities (as great as they maybe) are given way more weight than his putting the ball out abilities. I'd put almost everyone in my top 20 ahead of Neuer when it comes to putting the ball out. I never have and never will rate him ahead of De He's after watching them all my adulthood.

On Casillas, I took a pause from the discussion because it's clear that his role in the national team more or less been largely discounted. The fecking man literally won them the world cup and boy that was hardly his only moment of glory. To put him behind De Gea and ignore his howlers at the biggest stage of them all is never going to convince me. Let's not forget De Gea has hardly played in the biggest games of world football while Iker played in tonnes and excelled. As much as I love Dave, Saint Iker will remain the greatest Spanish keeper in my eyes. A gem of a man as well.

One last thing which would irk a few but David is never reaching the top 10 unless he shows ambition and leaves United or we suddenly become a good team again capable of competing at the highest level.

If we're going off epic moments, then Toldo would be my #1 as it's the best international tournament I've ever seen a keeper have, but if we're roundedly looking at these players in all of these discussions in an objective manner, you've got to look at their ability in relation to the position on the pitch, imo.

Keepers have a pretty solid checklist you can run through more readily than outfield players, which is why some who, obstensibly keep the ball out of the net, are rated lower than others who do the same thing, but more in accordance with the pre-determined checklist for keepers.

- cross collection
- handling
- punching
- positioning (near post); (far post); (centre of goal)
- command of area

and so on and so forth, the better the keeper, the more replete and what would be interesting in a few decades is how much the usage of the ball with the feet is weighted in those checklists. Buffon is pretty much the perfect keeper sans the feet issue because he scores really high across each facet; there are those around him that trump him in certain areas but fall short in others, where, if it were a numbers game, he'd quickly gain points on them - I think that's more important to some putting forth lists than others, not that there's a right or wrong way to judge, but I think, after a while, you will see patterns emerge and what a particular person rates in a keeper by the order in which they place them.

 

[2mufc0]

I think this starts a question I've had in my mind that I find really interesting and wonder what take you guys have on this: how important is shot stopping ability for a great keeper? I feel in the modern game you really don't need to be exceptional in that regard (you should of course not be terrible at it either) but in the top teams that is not the main concern in a lot of cases. For example in Germany we have lots of great shot stopping goalies but I wouldn't want to see any of them at Dortmund. They can be great for weaker clubs but if you want to dominate possession you need a goalie that is able to properly pass a ball and anticipate situations as well as keep his focus for a game where he hardly has to do anything. What do you guys think about this?

Sorry to side track the conversation but since you brought up German goalies and Dortmund, just wondering what your view on Luca Unbehaun is, rated quite highly at youth level and compared to Neuer, can he reach a similar level?

 

[Massive Spanner]

what about the top 20 hump backs?

also 20 is a lot of effort, why not 5?

Or 3, or 1?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Still I think he is the only goalie I have seen so far that actively influenced the opposition teams build up and I rate this influence on the game very highly. Basically he oftentimes functioned as an eleventh outfield player the opposition had to keep in mind

Which is completely fair. Its your prerogative as to how much weight you want to give to that part of the game when you judge players.

Could you explain what you mean by "putting the ball out abilities"? Do you mean simple ball passing or shot stopping or control of his box?

Lets just say if I had to select a keeper between De Gea or Neuer for a underdog team who has to soak up a lot pf pressure or am building a classic Italian defensive counter attacking team, I'd take De Gea every day of the week. I put the pure defensive contributions as the highest criteria. Putting the ball out as in putting it out of goal or out of the box.

 

[MJJ]

Which is completely fair. Its your prerogative as to how much weight you want to give to that part of the game when you judge players.



Lets just say if I had to select a keeper between De Gea or Neuer for a underdog team who has to soak up a lot pf pressure or am building a classic Italian defensive counter attacking team, I'd take De Gea every day of the week. I put the pure defensive contributions as the highest criteria. Putting the ball out as in putting it out of goal or out of the box.

Neuer for Schalke was a one man defence like de gea for us.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

If we're going off epic moments, then Toldo would be my #1 as it's the best international tournament I've ever seen a keeper have, but if we're roundedly looking at these players in all of these discussions in an objective manner, you've got to look at their ability in relation to the position on the pitch, imo.

Well, some moments for me define a lot more than others.

Baggio wouldn't be a fecking R6 pick in an all time no restrictions draft if he hadn't missed that penalty. Zidane would have been a top 5 pick if he had managed to stay on and France won it in 2006. Spain wouldn't have had a WC even with that tiki taka juggernaut if not for those couple of 1 on 1's he put out against Robben. These aren't just epic moments, these are history defining ones. I put a lot of weight on them.

Keepers have a pretty solid checklist you can run through more readily than outfield players, which is why some who, obstensibly keep the ball out of the net, are rated lower than others who do the same thing, but more in accordance with the pre-determined checklist for keepers.

- cross collection
- handling
- punching
- positioning (near post); (far post); (centre of goal)
- command of area

You make a pretty fair case and if you discount the dip, I rate peak Iker as solid enough in all those departments to deserve my ranking for him. Evidently, you do rate the overall longevity a bit more than me which is understandable.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Neuer for Schalke was a one man defence like de gea for us.

I've heard he was great there but not watched enough to have an educated response for that.

 

[P-Nut]

As my knowledge of overseas GK's is limited, just for fun I have done a top 20 of goalkeepers that played in England (excl. current players). Jeez this brings back some memories!

(@harms please consider this list irrelevant, i'm just an old codger having fun reminiscing).

1. Peter Schmeichel
2. Neville Southall
3. Jussi Jaaskelainen
4. Edwin van der Sar
5. David Seaman
6. Brad Friedal
7. Peter Cech
8. Nigel Martin
9. Shay Given
10. Tim Flowers
11. Bruce Grobelaar
12. Peter Shilton
13. David James
14. John Lukic
15. Paul Robinson
16. Tony Coton
17. Pavel Srnicek
18. Paul Jones
19. Mark Schwarzer
20. Casey Keller

@Copa Mundial how is jaaskelainen so high? I remember him from Bolton, but to be above Van Der Sar, Cech and even Shay Given seems strange.

 

[Synco]

I have long been of the impression that his sweeping abilities (as great as they maybe) are given way more weight than his putting the ball out abilities. I'd put almost everyone in my top 20 ahead of Neuer when it comes to putting the ball out.
I never have and never will rate him ahead of De He's after watching them all my adulthood.

I think the sometimes clichéd "sweeper keeper" label is taking away the spotlight from Neuer's allround abilities at times. At least that's how I experienced it on the Caf and other places.

Even without libero keeper elements, he was a pretty much complete world class keeper at his peak, including shotstopping/reflexes and 1 on 1s (positioning, staying up & reading the attacker, handball keeper approach). In traditional goalkeeping traits, especially his presence in the box is a massive plus over De Gea, as is his composure in high pressure games. I've also seen ex-goalkeeper pundits praising his "soft skills" as exceptional, like positioning on the line and communication with defenders. (But I'm not qualified to comment on that myself.)

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I think the sometimes clichéd "sweeper keeper" label is taking away the spotlight from Neuer's allround abilites at times. At least that's how I experienced it on the Caf and other places.

Even without libero keeper elements, he was a pretty much complete world class keeper at his peak, including shotstopping/reflexes and 1 on 1s (positioning, staying up & reading the attacker, handball keeper approach). In traditional goalkeeping traits, especially his presence in the box is a massive plus over De Gea, as is his composure in high pressure games. I've also seen ex-goalkeeper pundits praising his "soft skills" as exceptional, like positioning on the line and communication with defenders. (But I'm not qualified to comment on that myself.)

Hence he still makes to my top 15 of all time

 

[Synco]

Hence he still makes to my top 15 of all time

Sure, was just a response to the focus on sweeping and rating De Gea higher overall.

 

[Swarm]

Sorry to side track the conversation but since you brought up German goalies and Dortmund, just wondering what your view on Luca Unbehaun is, rated quite highly at youth level and compared to Neuer, can he reach a similar level?

I have not really seen a lot of him so can't really make any good predictions. He is rated really well indeed and supposed to be a good ball playing goalie. Right now he is out due to a knee injury which might hamper his start into professional football. It wasn't communicated what kind of injury he has, his last match was in April and I believe he has undergone surgery in May. He was interviewed during the semifinal of the German U19 championship where he was on crutches but he seemed to be quite confident and was celebrating with the others after the win over Schalke. Our third goalie who was the starter for the reserves/U23 last year has extended his contract for another year because the club aren't certain when Unbehaun will be able to play again. He was planned as the starter in the reserves for the comind season and to replace Oelschlägel.
From what I have seen he has reminded me a bit more of ter Stegen though which might also be down to the fact that he isn't the tallest at 186cm. Anyways, I am really looking forward to seeing him develop and I feel Dortmund really want to integrate him into the club, pretty sure he can soon inherit the second spot in the senior team from Hitz. Of course only if his performances hold up.

 

[Gio]

If we're going off epic moments, then Toldo would be my #1 as it's the best international tournament I've ever seen a keeper have, but if we're roundedly looking at these players in all of these discussions in an objective manner, you've got to look at their ability in relation to the position on the pitch, imo.

Toldo almost got on my list - high peak, marries old and new goalkeeping styles, huge range and reach - but I couldn't justify it in the end.

 

[Swarm]

Which is completely fair. Its your prerogative as to how much weight you want to give to that part of the game when you judge players.

Lets just say if I had to select a keeper between De Gea or Neuer for a underdog team who has to soak up a lot pf pressure or am building a classic Italian defensive counter attacking team, I'd take De Gea every day of the week. I put the pure defensive contributions as the highest criteria. Putting the ball out as in putting it out of goal or out of the box.

That is basically what my question about shot stopping abilities was aimed at. I believe there have been loads and loads of goalies that would be great for an underdog team. The question is if that is what makes a great keeper or if it is rather the ability to make a great team even better. And that is what Neuer has excelled at and why you may not have heard much of the likes of Timo Horn. The latter is a fantastic shot stopper but that's about it. Nowadays I believe a goalie in a top team needs more than that and since we are comparing modern keepers I believe Neuer is (was) better than de Gea, including my opinion that Neuer is indeed a prolific shot stopper on top of his ball playing and zone control abilities. I think de Gea might fall a bit into that underdog category since United haven't been excellent the last few years.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The question is if that is what makes a great keeper or if it is rather the ability to make a great team even better.

In a possession based team where the keeper needs to be a viable back pass option and a starter of moves from deep, yes.

It doesn't matter if you put De Gea or Neuer in say, the Brazil 1970 team. I'd rather have De Gea there in that great team.

Take Busquets for example, would you rather have anyone but him in that Barcelona setup behind Xavi and Iniesta? That doesn't make him better than Redondo who you'd choose in most other great teams. Horses for courses.

 

[Swarm]

In a possession based team where the keeper needs to be a viable back pass option and a starter of moves from deep, yes.

It doesn't matter if you put De Gea or Neuer in say, the Brazil 1970 team. I'd rather have De Gea there in that great team.

Take Busquets for example, would you rather have anyone but him in that Barcelona setup behind Xavi and Iniesta? That doesn't make him better than Redondo who you'd choose in most other great teams. Horses for courses.

Let me just preface by saying that I don't really disagree with you on anything except for maybe the valuation of the players we are discussing which is inherently subjective. I will also repeat that I have not seen enough of de Geas league performances so all of my opinions have to be taken with quite a bit of salt. Of course you always have to have a proper match between the player and the team he plays in. It can be really tedious to discuss whether a player was great or just elevated by his teammates or the system he played in.

If you want to be harsh you could say de Gea hasn't really been part of a great team at all so far (I know, United hasn't been this shit for eight years). So it may be a bit harder to judge him on the highest of merits. My issue is this: how do you judge a fantastic shot stopper that played his peak seasons at Huddersfield? He may have been a sensational keeper but only for not getting relegated/not conceding as much as they could have while getting relegated. How do you compare these performances to those of a CL contender?

That does of course not mean that these questions need to apply to de Gea in that way but I was just a bit surprised to see him rated this highly without really having seen a lot of great things from him and sensed a bit of United bias Will have a look at him in the future though. Also, here is a match by Neuer in his Schalke days:

 

[2mufc0]

I have not really seen a lot of him so can't really make any good predictions. He is rated really well indeed and supposed to be a good ball playing goalie. Right now he is out due to a knee injury which might hamper his start into professional football. It wasn't communicated what kind of injury he has, his last match was in April and I believe he has undergone surgery in May. He was interviewed during the semifinal of the German U19 championship where he was on crutches but he seemed to be quite confident and was celebrating with the others after the win over Schalke. Our third goalie who was the starter for the reserves/U23 last year has extended his contract for another year because the club aren't certain when Unbehaun will be able to play again. He was planned as the starter in the reserves for the comind season and to replace Oelschlägel.
From what I have seen he has reminded me a bit more of ter Stegen though which might also be down to the fact that he isn't the tallest at 186cm. Anyways, I am really looking forward to seeing him develop and I feel Dortmund really want to integrate him into the club, pretty sure he can soon inherit the second spot in the senior team from Hitz. Of course only if his performances hold up.

Cheers! Didn’t know he got injured , that’s a shame as he was expected to be in the first team squad this season, maybe play a few games too. Will keep an eye out.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

My issue is this: how do you judge a fantastic shot stopper that played his peak seasons at Huddersfield? He may have been a sensational keeper but only for not getting relegated/not conceding as much as they could have while getting relegated. How do you compare these performances to those of a CL contender?

My general logic is if he was that great, he'd be snapped by a bigger club and if he continues that sensational form there too, I'd rate him over a course of few years.

Maybe you cant compare the Huddersfield keeper with a CL contender keeper for a season, but as a career, it should not be a big problem.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

That does of course not mean that these questions need to apply to de Gea in that way but I was just a bit surprised to see him rated this highly without really having seen a lot of great things from him and sensed a bit of United bias

Firstly, of course there is United bias.

But many United fans make a case for him being better than even Schmeichel and Van der sar when he is in his best form. (except with his distribution, just speaking of the defensive aspect)

There was a brilliant thread on this on the Caf for a long while an year ago maybe when we finished 2nd under Jose.

 

[Swarm]

Cheers! Didn’t know he got injured , that’s a shame as he was expected to be in the first team squad this season, maybe play a few games too. Will keep an eye out.

I don't think there was a specific moment where he got injured, it may have been some kind of surgery that had to be done regardless. Maybe I just didn't catch wind of it because these things sometimes go unreported in the youth teams but it is not like he had to be carried off the pitch at some point. That is why most Dortmund supporters only got wind of it after the surgery had already been performed. First team squad is not exactly true, he was planned as the first option in the reserves and the third option for the first team but that is still a pretty good deal for someone that could still play in the U19 team. I am sure our officials will have talked to him about the avenues into the first team. Otherwise he may not have stayed, there were rumours about him going to Leipzig some weeks back. That would not have gone down well Anyways really exciting prospect and I will keep my eyes out as well.

My general logic is if he was that great, he'd be snapped by a bigger club and if he continues that sensational form there too, I'd rate him over a course of few years.

Maybe you cant compare the Huddersfield keeper with a CL contender keeper for a season, but as a career, it should not be a big problem.

Yeah I expected that answer and that is where the comparison with de Gea breaks since obviously Real wanted him in the squad. Then again he hasn't been able to prove himself there yet. But enough of me trying to badmouth de Gea

Firstly, of course there is United bias.

But many United fans make a case for him being better than even Schmeichel and Van der sar when he is in his best form. (except with his distribution, just speaking of the defensive aspect)

There was a brilliant thread on this on the Caf for a long while an year ago maybe when we finished 2nd under Jose.

This bias can go both ways as well. Quite some players, especially in more reflected circles like this drafting community, will receive much more scrutiny if they are on your own team so some may even get underrated a bit in the all time context.

 

[Physiocrat]

With keepers who are excellent shot stoppers is that they also need great concentration to perform at a big club. When you're facing shots constantly you are in the zone, the most difficult aspect is concentrating so well that you can make that spectacular one save since the opposition have such few shots. This is true of playing for all top sides irrespective of playing style. For this reason, the great Huddersfield keeper will never be considered a genuine great.

Brad Friedel is probably a good example of a really good shot stopper who was never truly tested at a big club. Tim Howard was shown to lack the mentality needed at a big club but was a good keeper lower down

 

[Swarm]

With keepers who are excellent shot stoppers is that they also need great concentration to perform at a big club. When you're facing shots constantly you are in the zone, the most difficult aspect is concentrating so well that you can make that spectacular one save since the opposition have such few shots. This is true of playing for all top sides irrespective of playing style. For this reason, the great Huddersfield keeper will never be considered a genuine great.

Brad Friedel is probably a good example of a really good shot stopper who was never truly tested at a big club. Tim Howard was shown to lack the mentality needed at a big club but was a good keeper lower down

Basically my whole allegation: does de Gea seem great because he was tested too much recently at United? Don't take it too seriously though, I still want to be able to come back to this forum

 

[Invictus]

Can one of you randomize A, B, C and D with random.org, please? Thanks!

 

[Enigma_87]

Can one of you randomize A, B, C and D with random.org, please? Thanks!

there you go mate:

 

[Invictus]

there you go mate:

Cheers!

 

[harms]

Also, here is a match by Neuer in his Schalke days:

You don't need to go as far — I'm sure all of us here remember the semi-final against United where we were so dominant but at some point I really believed that we're not going to beat him today. Not Schalke, but Neuer personally.

 

[Swarm]

You don't need to go as far — I'm sure all of us here remember the semi-final against United where we were so dominant but at some point I really believed that we're not going to beat him today. Not Schalke, but Neuer personally.

Yea I saw that as well but personally found the match vs Porto even more impressive. There is also a video of the Germany vs Algeria match at the '14 WC that showcases his sweeping really well.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I think this starts a question I've had in my mind that I find really interesting and wonder what take you guys have on this: how important is shot stopping ability for a great keeper? I feel in the modern game you really don't need to be exceptional in that regard (you should of course not be terrible at it either) but in the top teams that is not the main concern in a lot of cases. For example in Germany we have lots of great shot stopping goalies but I wouldn't want to see any of them at Dortmund. They can be great for weaker clubs but if you want to dominate possession you need a goalie that is able to properly pass a ball and anticipate situations as well as keep his focus for a game where he hardly has to do anything. What do you guys think about this?

Surprised with this as i reckon you guys should take whatever there is on offer given the fact last decent keeper you had was Stefan Klos.

 

[Physiocrat]

Basically my whole allegation: does de Gea seem great because he was tested too much recently at United? Don't take it too seriously though, I still want to be able to come back to this forum

He probably had two seasons in form when Utd were a top team- the last title win and when Mourinho finished 2nd with us but that's about it. He's played pretty well in the Champions League but we have never made it that far while he's been here. I do think that raises question marks relative to other keepers. I'd have Toldo over him

 

[Šjor Bepo]

So De Gea isnt great because he doesnt play for a great team? Great logic. I can understand(in fact i agree with it) that point of view from a player perspective but for goalies nah, international career i agree with that questionmark but thats that when it comes to De Gea. His club career, peak years are nothing short of sensational and anybody who doubts this has a very short memory. Yes he isnt perfect but every keeper and every player has weaknesses.

 

[Synco]

Surprised with this as i reckon you guys should take whatever there is on offer given the fact last decent keeper you had was Stefan Klos.

I think he means shot stoppers *without* significant ballplaying capabilities & control of larger spaces. It wouldn't work for Favre's football (or any other offensive top team approach, which is what Dortmund aims at stylistically).

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I think he means shot stoppers *without* significant ballplaying capabilities & control of larger spaces. It wouldn't work for Favre's football (or any other offensive top team approach, which is what Dortmund aims at stylistically).

i know what he meant and i agree with it, it was a crap "joke" as they had turds in goal for more then 2 decades now and he wants to say NO to someone, anyone

 

[2mufc0]

You don't need to go as far — I'm sure all of us here remember the semi-final against United where we were so dominant but at some point I really believed that we're not going to beat him today. Not Schalke, but Neuer personally.

He was quite the goalkeeper at his peak, not just his skills but he also carried that aura that made forwards shit themselves.

 

[Swarm]

Surprised with this as i reckon you guys should take whatever there is on offer given the fact last decent keeper you had was Stefan Klos.

I think he means shot stoppers *without* significant ballplaying capabilities & control of larger spaces. It wouldn't work for Favre's football (or any other offensive top team approach, which is what Dortmund aims at stylistically).

Exactly, I should have maybe made that clearer. Claiming that all keepers after Klos were less than decent is really harsh as well. Lehmann was a pretty great goalie if you are willing to overlook his silly antics (he's pretty much a cnut but that has been the case for quite a few of then hasn't it?). Weidenfeller is pretty much what I would call "decent" and had a pretty good spell in the Klopp years when we won the Bundesliga twice. Even made Löw nominate him for the national team which he does really reluctantly with older players. Bürki has had two really subpar years but was actually excellent for us last season and he has the upside that he is indeed very good with his feet which makes him better for Dortmund than 95% of goalies out there.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Exactly, I should have maybe made that clearer. Claiming that all keepers after Klos were less than decent is really harsh as well. Lehmann was a pretty great goalie if you are willing to overlook his silly antics (he's pretty much a cnut but that has been the case for quite a few of then hasn't it?). Weidenfeller is pretty much what I would call "decent" and had a pretty good spell in the Klopp years when we won the Bundesliga twice. Even made Löw nominate him for the national team which he does really reluctantly with older players. Bürki has had two really subpar years but was actually excellent for us last season and he has the upside that he is indeed very good with his feet which makes him better for Dortmund than 95% of goalies out there.

forgot about Lehmann, though i never rated him but he isnt a turd(average or below) like Weidenfeller and Burki.