Apologies.. I might have missed it completely
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Nedved stands out like a sore thumb next to very central 6 and 8s. I’d move him to whatever category wide midfielders like Beckham are in. He did play as an 8/10 at Juve at times, but usually did his best work peeling wide. And that’s where he played at Lazio out on the left.
Yeah. Maybe I’ll remove him from the list by an executive decision.
Please, remove Neeskens @Isotope
He’s already on the box-to-box list.
He’s already on the box-to-box list.
Good decision @harms . He really stood out.
Did we ever categorise Yaya Toure?
Brother of Kolo
@Joga Bonito no Scholes? 
@Joga Bonito no Scholes?
Edited.
Personally from what I've seen I thought he was more of a b2b than a playmaker.
No Hannapi?
Can you do a normal list, please?
Was only kidding. You can ignore it.
Which list is Don Alfredo going in?
Forwards, obviously.
Yeah. Same can be said for Kopa — to be fair, the competition is horrific, since there's not only #10's, there are also all kinds of creative forwards. I've been meaning to build a side around Rivellino for a while now though.
I'm not the one counting the votes now, but I'd still prefer for discussion to happen here. It gets messy otherwise.
Yea, I am sorry.
I don't think Kopa and Rivellino are anywhere close to be honest. Seen some quality teams built with Kopa at AM here and if memory serves me right, features there often. Rivellino hardly.
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Maybe. Kopa only got those roles lately, before that he was usually shunned on the right. Hopefully, the same would happen with Rivellino soon
He just needs a right PR-campaign!B2B
One of Rivellino's best traits is that he isn't dominant #10 like most of the GOAT's, his flexibility (able to play in multiple positions), and also perfectly suitable to play a second fiddle to someone without needing the spotlight.
He gets pretty often due to this and IMO it's pretty logical as he brings a lot to the team without getting into the way of someone else.
The same issue is with Iniesta IMO, he can fit in a CAM role pretty well, yet he is rarely tried or fitted there rather than shifted to the wing in 4 man midfield.
He definitely needs a run in as the focal playmaker of the team as he is perfectly capable of starring in that role and he has the qualities for it, but in the upcoming final I guess many will be disappointed again
One of Rivellino's best traits is that he isn't dominant #10 like most of the GOAT's, his flexibility (able to play in multiple positions), and also perfectly suitable to play a second fiddle to someone without needing the spotlight.
He gets pretty often due to this and IMO it's pretty logical as he brings a lot to the team without getting into the way of someone else.
The same issue is with Iniesta IMO, he can fit in a CAM role pretty well, yet he is rarely tried or fitted there rather than shifted to the wing in 4 man midfield.
He definitely needs a run in as the focal playmaker of the team as he is perfectly capable of starring in that role and he has the qualities for it, but in the upcoming final I guess many will be disappointed again
Is it fair to say that the Spanish side of 2018 was the first one where Iniesta was the team's dominant playmaker with no equal or was it Euro 2016..
34. Gerhard Hanappi — 20 points
One of the finest midfielders of his generation, Hanappi was nominally a goalscoring wing half, however his versatility allowed him to successfully play in almost all positions. Hanappi's technical abilities and creativity allowed him to play as an effective play-maker.
I know wiki calls him a playmaker but always thought of him as a B2B. Was essentially a right wing half like J. L. Andrade running up and down while Ocwirk dictated things
-----Koller-----Ocwirk-----Hanappi
----------Happel---Barschandt------
Of course, was versatile as you say since he played half back (CB) too alongside Happel. Still wonder what his best role is.
Yeah, he probably was, but I wasn't going to argue about a player that I haven't seen much of. It's really hard to classify those.
Aye definitely. He had thighs like tree trunks and often played various defensive roles with Zanetti-esque versatility and physicality.
Same for Bulgarelli IMO, looked more classic box-to-box based on my understanding of him. Happy to be corrected though.
IMPORTANT: Look through the lists please
I've compiled a bunch of shortlists for the remaining polls — I've tried to include all of the players that can be controversial in terms of their allocations. Do comment on them, since quite a few of them are somewhat in-between categories — I'll can move them if many of you disagree with my assessments.
The categories themselves are roughly based on the traditional W-M frontline
The categories themselves are roughly based on the traditional W-M frontline
WINGER ---- STRIKER ---- WINGER
FORWARD - FORWARD
FORWARD - FORWARD
| Figo |
| Beckham |
| Giggs |
| Matthews |
| Finney |
| Garrincha |
| Overmars |
| Keizer |
| Džajić |
| Lato |
| Gadocha |
| Johnstone |
| Robben |
| Ribery |
| Conti |
| Causio |
| Czibor |
| Julinho |
| Gento |
| Best |
| Hamrin |
| Pepe |
| Amaro |
| Littbarski |
| Barnes |
| Pires |
| Futre |
| Di Maria |
| Joya |
| Cubilla |
| Brian Laudrup |
| Donadoni |
| Ginola |
| Ghiggia |
| Moulijin |
| Waddle |
| Chislenko |
| Jair |
| Nedvěd |
| Messi |
| Cristiano |
| Eusébio |
| Puskás |
| Di Stéfano |
| Blokhin |
| Rummenigge |
| Gullit |
| Cruyff |
| Jairzinho |
| Kubala |
| F. Walter |
| Moreno |
| Zizinho |
| Pedernera |
| Hidegkuti |
| Sívori |
| V. Mazzola |
| Scarone |
| Rocha |
| Savicevic |
| Simonsen |
| T. Müller |
| Ivanov |
| Arshavin |
| Hoeneß |
| Meazza |
| Baggio |
| Sarosi |
| Sindelar |
| Henry |
| F. Albert |
| Neymar |
| Stoichkov |
| Bergkamp |
| Bene |
| Kempes |
| Del Piero |
| Totti |
| Cantona |
| Griezmann |
| Salah |
| Mane |
| Bale |
| Streltsov |
| Heynckes |
| Rivaldo |
| Pelé |
| Ronaldinho |
| G. Müller |
| Romario |
| van Basten |
| Luis Ronaldo |
| Seeler |
| Law |
| Elkjær |
| Suarez |
| Kocsis |
| Greaves |
| Nordahl |
| Batistuta |
| Dean |
| Shevchenko |
| Erico |
| Klinsmann |
| Piola |
| Riva |
| Charles |
| van Nistelrooy |
| Papin |
| H. Sanchez |
| Lewandowski |
| Weah |
| Lineker |
| Völler |
| Eto'o |
| Spencer |
| Drogba |
| Careca |
| Shearer |
| Vieri |
| Agüero |
| Torres |
| Rush |
| Trezeguet |
| Crespo |
| Rossi |
| Krankl |
| Kluivert |
| Rooney |
@harms can we separate wide forwards and the likes of Di Steefano, Bergkamp etc.?
Is Rooney a striker? I mean, he has played there and can do the job, but i think he's mostly been a second striker type like Bergkamp.
This is the trickiest separation yet. I think the main debate is around whether you throw in the roaming forward / wide goalscorer (eg Cristiano, Stoichkov) with the more slippery second striker types (eg Bergkamp, Baggio) - or keep them separate.
Couple of points
- Eusebio - see him very similar in style to Luis Ronaldo and would have him in the same striker category. Think that just about all these 600+ goalscorers are ultimately performing the same function.
- Personally would also move Puskas up too, but can see arguments either way given his abilities as a provider.
- think Rivaldo is missing, but would be in the forward category in my view.
- wonder if Nedved would be better in the winger category, with the other wide midfielders. Difficult with these guys who've played across the attacking midfield roles. But I suppose I find it difficult to compare 9.5s like Cantona with midfield workhorses like Pavel.
- what about Pele?
Couple of points
- Eusebio - see him very similar in style to Luis Ronaldo and would have him in the same striker category. Think that just about all these 600+ goalscorers are ultimately performing the same function.
- Personally would also move Puskas up too, but can see arguments either way given his abilities as a provider.
- think Rivaldo is missing, but would be in the forward category in my view.
- wonder if Nedved would be better in the winger category, with the other wide midfielders. Difficult with these guys who've played across the attacking midfield roles. But I suppose I find it difficult to compare 9.5s like Cantona with midfield workhorses like Pavel.
- what about Pele?
I really don't want to do that as there are so many overlaps. We've already had our list of number 10s — and supporting strikers like Bergkamp, Cantona and Baggio haven't made that list... considering how often they would occupy the same channels as a more wide-oriented inside forwards, and given that they both drop behind a central striker to exploit the space between the lines, I feel like we shouldn't separate those categories even further.
Good spot, what a miss it would be if he would slip between the lists because of my forgetfulness. Added him to forwards.
Fair enough — and since it's not the first opinion like that I'll move him to wingers.
Obviously both are somewhere on the verge between the two. I'd like to hear some more opinions, but I'll consider moving both
Anyone agrees? He's a bit of a weird one, I put him there alongside the likes of Seeler and Sheva, but I see why some would put him to forwards.
Nedved - winger
Julinho - forward
Rooney - forward
Eusebio - forward
Fenomeno - forward
Seeler - forward
Rivaldo - forward
Puskas - forward
Pele - forward
Law - forward
Julinho - forward
Rooney - forward
Eusebio - forward
Fenomeno - forward
Seeler - forward
Rivaldo - forward
Puskas - forward
Pele - forward
Law - forward
Another look at it could be to do with function. Basically in that 'forwards' list you have a load of players who were the primary goalscorers in their team - Cristiano, Salah, Henry, Eusebio then arguably Puskas, Stoichkov, Blokhin? To all intents and purposes they play as no9s coming in from the corner of the box. What about moving them into the striker category? Then what you have left are the guys who were typically the providers, who were the second goalscorer in their team.
Edit - like @Physiocrat's categories on the page before.
To be honest I've probably argued both sides of this case.
Edit - like @Physiocrat's categories on the page before.
To be honest I've probably argued both sides of this case.
Why a WM? It really doesn't translate well into modern formations.
- The Forwards (Inside Forwards) who straddle both #10 and #9.5.
- The Wingers are pure wingers (which ideally would exclude modern wide forwards)
Imo, it's better to classify them as Wingers, #10s, Forwards (#9s) and Supporting Forwards (#9.5, WF etc)
In my understanding the proposed classification is exactly like this? (#10s having been done last year already.) Unless you just mean the naming, which can be changed around without any problems. I think the WM is just an illustration.
I don't like the idea of combining wide forwards with forwards.
If not having left and right as separate categories, then having a separate category for wide forwards is not a bad idea at all. We definitely have 20 great ones.
If not having left and right as separate categories, then having a separate category for wide forwards is not a bad idea at all. We definitely have 20 great ones.
Why not? There are big overlaps, Cruyff, Henry, Simonsen, Kalle, Rooney, Kempes, Eusebio...most of them have been played in center and out wide too.
All of them have a primary and secondary position. I'd put everyone in their primary category only.
@harms where do we put David Villa? Striker from Valencia days or a forward from Barca days? Personally i rate him better as striker though achievment wise its a non contest for the Barca spell.
If enough people will support adding another category, I'll do it. What's the category though? Wing-forwards and forwards? Primary and secondary goalscorers? Creative vs clinical? What about false 9s?