[The Serpent]

What a load of waffle. Nobody says its a sin. And claiming Zirkzee has better movement is odd given he is hardly ever in the box.
Most agree we need a ready made atriker to lead the line. What some of us objekt to is the idea that he doesn't have talent and is Championsship level, because its a moronic take that doesn't add to a proper discussion.
Most of you would have screamed for Cole to be sold before York arrived.

He does have better movement, that's why it only took a matter of minutes coming on against Spurs to be in a position to get in the box and be available for a pass to score while hojund spend over 60 minutes being a ghost. And that's why Zirkee can link up and being involved in the game because he has better movement and creativity. The only thing Hojlund is better at is finishing and work rate

What exactly is waffle about the fact that Zirkee was written off after 4 games while Hojlund gets endless excuses and has a diehard defence bringing up his age when he performs no where near required to that of a standard to be a united main forward after nearly 2 seasons with a price of 72 million?

 

[McLvnsMuse]

Apart from elite pace and finishing (arguably the two most un-coachable things), Hojlund is merely an average striking talent. If we ignore all the elements that make him a big talent, he's really shite. That's how this and some other knee jerk critical posts read after every game he doesn't score or pull finishes out of nowhere. It's absolute nonsense.

His pace isn’t elite. It’s decent for his size but he’s no bale or Werner or prime Rashford.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Apart from elite pace and finishing (arguably the two most un-coachable things), Hojlund is merely an average striking talent. If we ignore all the elements that make him a big talent, he's really shite. That's how this and some other knee jerk critical posts read after every game he doesn't score or pull finishes out of nowhere. It's absolute nonsense.

What elements are those?

 

[Denis79]

What a load of waffle. Nobody says its a sin. And claiming Zirkzee has better movement is odd given he is hardly ever in the box.
Most agree we need a ready made atriker to lead the line. What some of us objekt to is the idea that he doesn't have talent and is Championsship level, because its a moronic take that doesn't add to a proper discussion.
Most of you would have screamed for Cole to be sold before York arrived.

Cole scored 55 goals in 70 matches for Newcastle before he joined us, he had proven himself to be a absolute top striker. In his first season for us he scored 12 goals in just 17 games. So I doubt your claim. People were angry for him missing that chance vs West Ham that cost us the title, but he was a proven top striker and showed it instantly.

 

[Andycoleno9]

He does have better movement, that's why it only took a matter of minutes coming on against Spurs to be in a position to get in the box and be available for a pass to score while hojund spend over 60 minutes being a ghost. And that's why Zirkee can link up and being involved in the game because he has better movement and creativity. The only thing Hojlund is better at is finishing and work rate

What exactly is waffle about the fact that Zirkee was written off after 4 games while Hojlund gets endless excuses and has a diehard defence bringing up his age when he performs no where near required to that of a standard to be a united main forward after nearly 2 seasons with a price of 72 million?

After exactly 2 months in PL, guy who was in best 11 in Seria A last year, became;
A) flop
B) shit version of Fellaini
C) dogshit
D) waste of money
E) non footballer
F) player with shit technique, dribble, passing, slow and lazy.

Meanwhile, Hojlund in his second season still gets excuses about service, age, new league, wrong system etc....
Double standards at its finest.

 

[RuudTom83]

The one thing that keeps me hopeful for Rasmus is he usually scores just above his xG. When the chances come he does usually put them away.

He is still poor at getting on the end of those balls across the box, but equally United are poor at providing those balls and have only started doing them in the last few weeks.

 

[Denis79]

He does have better movement, that's why it only took a matter of minutes coming on against Spurs to be in a position to get in the box and be available for a pass to score while hojund spend over 60 minutes being a ghost. And that's why Zirkee can link up and being involved in the game because he has better movement and creativity. The only thing Hojlund is better at is finishing and work rate

What exactly is waffle about the fact that Zirkee was written off after 4 games while Hojlund gets endless excuses and has a diehard defence bringing up his age when he performs no where near required to that of a standard to be a united main forward after nearly 2 seasons with a price of 72 million?

That is interesting isn't it? I don't think either are good enough to lead the line for us, but I agree that Zirkzee's movement is much better than Hojlunds.

 

[Mike Smalling]

He does have better movement, that's why it only took a matter of minutes coming on against Spurs to be in a position to get in the box and be available for a pass to score while hojund spend over 60 minutes being a ghost. And that's why Zirkee can link up and being involved in the game because he has better movement and creativity. The only thing Hojlund is better at is finishing and work rate

Complete nonsense. It was totally coincidental that Zirkzee was the striker on the pitch, when Forster fecked up and presented us with a 100% chance. And Højlund has gotten exactly that type of goal a few times in the last weeks anyway (Plzen and Forest) by being at the right spot. It doesn't prove anything about movement. Meanwhile, look at Zirkzee for the chance where Mazraoui ends up taking a shot from a tight angle - totally flatfooted at the edge of the box as Bruno plays in Mazraoui.

 

[flameinthesun]

Watching Duran put in a good CF performance. He just has better movement than, better touch and is just a smarter striker. Rasmus has a similar physique but doesn't have the same physical presence and opposite that, he doesn't have the technical ability to take the ball in tight spaces and be the link up striker. I think he will end up being a good no 2, however, we probably should not have spent 70 mil on him.

 

[El Jefe]

The only time he’s had a performance that made me think we have a top talent is against Galatasaray last season.

At a similar age, the likes of Rashford, Nani, Martial, Greenwood, Anderson, Rafael, Smalling, Phil Jones, Mainoo, Shaw all had much more impressive games and showed just far more talent.

Citing a player’s age as a reason to be patient is pointless if you don’t have the ability or talent to reach the level required. We heard similar arguments for Welbeck, Pereira, Dan James, Antony.

He’s essentially a worse version of Lukaku just not as lazy or as much of a twat.

 

[Bobski]

Complete nonsense. It was totally coincidental that Zirkzee was the striker on the pitch, when Forster fecked up and presented us with a 100% chance. And Højlund has gotten exactly that type of goal a few times in the last weeks anyway (Plzen and Forest) by being at the right spot. It doesn't prove anything about movement. Meanwhile, look at Zirkzee for the chance where Mazraoui ends up taking a shot from a tight angle - totally flatfooted at the edge of the box as Bruno plays in Mazraoui.

If you look purely at per 90 stats (on Fbref) in the league this season, Zirkzee is averaging 2.24 shots against Hojlunds 0.92 and is averaging 27.8 attempted passes against Hojlunds 15.4.

The "teammates won't pass to him" excuse doesn't seem to apply to Zirkzee who despite his obvious physical limitations doesn't struggle to get involved in the game or on the end of chances.

Small sample sizes of course.

 

[Lyng]

Who said that he is championship level? Please, show me those posts (even one) where someone said that.

Why would I waste time digging out those posts. They where mostly in match day threads like your examples of people calling Zirkzee Felaini, which is a daft comment as well.
The discussions on Højlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho and Bruno are extremely toxic because of comments like that. It's absolutely fair to be critical but this silly name calling and using words like useless doesn't add anything of use.
I have said again and again that Højlund should be understudy to a ready top striker.
The reason I rate his talent is because he scores when he gets a chance. He needs to become better at running correctly but he has matches where it's much better. I am not writing of Zirkzee as a player for us, because he offers different qualities. And this will be my last comment in this thread.

 

[Mike Smalling]

If you look purely at per 90 stats (on Fbref) in the league this season, Zirkzee is averaging 2.24 shots against Hojlunds 0.92 and is averaging 27.8 attempted passes against Hojlunds 15.4.

The "teammates won't pass to him" excuse doesn't seem to apply to Zirkzee who despite his obvious physical limitations doesn't struggle to get involved in the game or on the end of chances.

Small sample sizes of course.

I think with these detailed stats, you can often build the narrative you want - especially when the sample sizes are so small, as you point out. That is only enhanced, when you only use the league stats. For instance, the only two PL games where Zirkzee has completed 90 minutes were Southampton (worst team in the league by far), and a terrible Everton team that gifted us chances.

If you look at all competitions, their shots on target pr. 90 is almost identical this season, and Højlund converts shots at a higher rate.

I'd much rather go with what I see when I watch them. I think Højlund is clearly quite limited, but still our best option for now. We've seen some dire performances from him, yes, but that certainly also goes for Zirkzee. And I do think we've seen more quality moments from Højlund overall (winner vs. Brentford, winner vs. Plzen, goal vs. Bodø/Glimt, pass to Bruno vs. City, etc.).

But if Zirkzee starts to perform better, he should obviously start. For now I still associate him with being mostly decent on the ball, but also lacking in intensity and speed.

 

[MattofManchester]

He's got the right attitude and mentality, so that's a plus to his development.

I don't think he's limited, I think he's wildly inconsistent and raw.

One game, his first touch is excellent, and gets him a goal, the next game, it's bouncing off him and he can't get a handle on things.

It's to be expected. I don't think we'll sign another striker, so there's a lot on his shoulders. The new system has got him scoring again, but he needs to take another step forward in terms of his movement and positioning.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

The only time he’s had a performance that made me think we have a top talent is against Galatasaray last season.

At a similar age, the likes of Rashford, Nani, Martial, Greenwood, Anderson, Rafael, Smalling, Phil Jones, Mainoo, Shaw all had much more impressive games and showed just far more talent.

Citing a player’s age as a reason to be patient is pointless if you don’t have the ability or talent to reach the level required. We heard similar arguments for Welbeck, Pereira, Dan James, Antony.

He’s essentially a worse version of Lukaku just not as lazy or as much of a twat.

I agree with your post overall, but how is Lukaku a lazy player?

 

[dubplate warrior]

Apart from elite pace and finishing (arguably the two most un-coachable things), Hojlund is merely an average striking talent. If we ignore all the elements that make him a big talent, he's really shite. That's how this and some other knee jerk critical posts read after every game he doesn't score or pull finishes out of nowhere. It's absolute nonsense.

He isn't an elite finisher and he can't control a football. But whatever.

 

[Lu Tze]

He isn't an elite finisher and he can't control a football. But whatever.

He's objectively an elite finisher by all metrics and it's ridiculously hyperbolic to say that he can't control a football. He needs to improve his control for sure to make it at the top.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

Rasmus doesn't take enough shots for my liking; you have to get in the right areas but when he does it's like his mind jumbled whether to shoot, pass or run more.

The right coaching can correct this, he has the other attributes but it really needs to start happening soon.

 

[Lu Tze]

Rasmus doesn't take enough shots for my liking; you have to get in the right areas but when he does it's like his mind jumbled whether to shoot, pass or run more.

The right coaching can correct this, he has the other attributes but it really needs to start happening soon.

Completely agree. He needs to be more selfish and decisive when he's in the right area. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, and all that.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Other teams competing for top 5 have Isak upfront, we have Höjlund. Höjlund needs to start scoring.

 

[Shark]

He's got the right attitude and mentality, so that's a plus to his development.

I don't think he's limited, I think he's wildly inconsistent and raw.

One game, his first touch is excellent, and gets him a goal, the next game, it's bouncing off him and he can't get a handle on things.

It's to be expected. I don't think we'll sign another striker, so there's a lot on his shoulders. The new system has got him scoring again, but he needs to take another step forward in terms of his movement and positioning.

I think Rasmus will eventually come good, but not signing another striker would be lunacy. I still don't think Zirkzee is even a striker to begin with.

 

[McLvnsMuse]

Watching Duran put in a good CF performance. He just has better movement than, better touch and is just a smarter striker. Rasmus has a similar physique but doesn't have the same physical presence and opposite that, he doesn't have the technical ability to take the ball in tight spaces and be the link up striker. I think he will end up being a good no 2, however, we probably should not have spent 70 mil on him.

This.

The common response to any critical examination of Rasmus is age. The problem is he’s not showing enough range to his talent to justify what we paid (naturally, consistency will come with time)

It’s basically Pace Power Finishing we see in trickles.

For the price we paid he should either have more raw skills in his arsenal or be devastatingly good at a few things and we only have to worry about adding more basic stuff to his arsenal.

Hes not devastatingly good at anything. Hes pretty good at finishing, ok pace and ok strength/hold up. That’s not 70m.

 

[Leftback99]

Other teams competing for top 5 have Isak upfront, we have Höjlund. Höjlund needs to start scoring.

Yep, Isak, Watkins/Duran, Solanke, Wood, Welbeck would all be an upgrade at this point. And that's what's likely to leave us behind them.

 

[RedDevil [NC]]

His finishing is really good when he does make the right decisions or runs. I think he should take more shots honestly. I was hoping Rudd would have been able to mold him as far as movement and decision making