[Fortitude]

Ok, I got your point. But we also had Wayne Rooney, Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen who were all top strikers at 21.

Kane being crap when he was young is also a myth

"Kane at 21 was PFA Young Player of the Year scoring 30 goals in all competitions."

"Harry Kane, the 21-year-old phenom who's destroying the Premier League, is the most hyped player in England
Tony Manfred
March 31, 2015"

Naming a bunch of known prodigies doesn't really progress a point; Hojlund is clearly not cut from that cloth, so will always lose out in comparisons to renowned prodigies who should only be compared to others of the same stock, if being objective.

Hojlund's trajectory is more the norm, whether he makes it to the top or not, we'll find out in a couple/few years.

 

[Toblerone92]

He can’t hold the ball up well yet he talks about being strong. He’s not particularly pacy; you rarely seem him receive the ball and turn past a defender. He’s never in the right place in the box and his overall movement to make runs in behind is nowhere near the required standard.

I fail to see what he brings to the table. He’s a squad player at best but the fact we squandered £70million on him has led some people here to severely overrate him. We need a proper striker in immediately and I’m sure the manager has already realised this.

 

[Lyng]

Naming a bunch of known prodigies doesn't really progress a point; Hojlund is clearly not cut from that cloth, so will always lose out in comparisons to renowned prodigies who should only be compared to others of the same stock, if being objective.

Hojlund's trajectory is more the norm, whether he makes it to the top or not, we'll find out in a couple/few years.

Spot on. Which is also why the best thing for United and for Højlund is if we get a striker in their prime to be leading our line. Amorim rotates a lot and actually subs players so Højlund would get plenty of play, and we have seen how he is often better when subbed on instead of starting.

 

[Apokalips]

Naming a bunch of known prodigies doesn't really progress a point; Hojlund is clearly not cut from that cloth, so will always lose out in comparisons to renowned prodigies who should only be compared to others of the same stock, if being objective.

Hojlund's trajectory is more the norm, whether he makes it to the top or not, we'll find out in a couple/few years.

There are almost two points here that get confused into one argument.

It is correct that Hojlund's current trajectory is similar to the vast majority of 21 year old strikers i.e. not wonderkids or special talents. We cannot confirm his full trajectory yet, but he may become a very good player and he deserves time to develop. So it is wrong to say he will definitely be a poor player and never good enough for a club of our size, etc. as we do not know and many players who would be good in enough in their prime, would not have been deemed good enough at 21.

However, separately, as Manchester United's number 9 he deserves all of the critique he is getting. He was purchased for wonderkid money and given status of top striker at a big club as if he is a wonderkid. Even most special talents are not given that status - Rooney came into a side with Van Nistelrooy, etc. so that is our fault as a club (not his) but that does not mean that we should sit and pretend to be happy with Hojlund as our number 9 when he is nowhere near good enough currently. Perhaps he will get there, but he should be a back up and potentially have a loan spell or two. It is nothing personal to him but it should be called out in the same way people were adamant Elanga wasn't good enough or De Gea was no longer good enough.

It has been a problem here for a while, giving players too much too soon.

 

[evil_geko]

He'll be 22 in a couple of months. He is the same age as Cole Palmer and Jude Bellingham, he shouldn't be that raw..

Not every player develops the same at the same ages. 22 is still young. I know this is the Caf where 27 is becoming too old even, but come on.

Where did this myth of him being extremely clinical come from? It's ridiculous and it's used over and over to disguise the fact he all too often is nowhere to be seen when a good cross or pass comes into the danger area

And then we have posts like these.

 

[Marwood]

Ok, I got your point. But we also had Wayne Rooney, Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen who were all top strikers at 21.

Kane being crap when he was young is also a myth

"Kane at 21 was PFA Young Player of the Year scoring 30 goals in all competitions."

"Harry Kane, the 21-year-old phenom who's destroying the Premier League, is the most hyped player in England
Tony Manfred
March 31, 2015"

But in Rooney, Fowler and Owen you've picked three players across a near 30 year period.

And they're the three strikers everyone picks when talking about being ridiculously good at a young age.

That's how rare it is to be that good so young as a striker.

 

[Saddy]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta..."He is so quick, he's,a low centre of gravity.
What's happened to his pace ? I'm not seeing this TBH

 

[Andycoleno9]

And that's the problem really isn't it? People want him to be a top class striker now, but he isn't. But seemingly nobody has the patience to see if he can develop into one with his attributes either.

Why people have/had patience with Amad, Martial, Rashford, Mainoo, Giggs, Becks, De Gea, Garnacho....? Because people had something (a lot) to hold on. Talent and some top traits were obvious.
With Hojlund there is really not much which screams "top talent".

Look at Yoro. He is not producing some world class performances but nobody criticize him. Because talent is obvious. You can see that he will develop in top class player.

 

[GiveItToGi...nowait]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/rasmus-hojlund-confirms-100-metres-in-under-11-seconds-story#:~:text="He is so quick, he's,a low centre of gravity.
What's happened to his pace ? I'm not seeing this TBH

I think it’s his positioning and anticipation. If you’re starting 5 yards back you always look slow.

 

[Jim Beam]

I fail to see what he brings to the table. He’s a squad player at best but the fact we squandered £70million on him has led some people here to severely overrate him. We need a proper striker in immediately and I’m sure the manager has already realised this.

Sorry, but a bit tired of this 70 million thing people constantly beating him with and that we supposedly 'squandered' on him. For 85k a week and being like 18th best paid player in this squad he earns every penny of it and some more. Especially compared to some other players.

If we want to sell him, we would easily get 40 at least. So, he is a valuable asset however you look at it. Tbh, if we really buy ready made and world class striker I wouldn't sell him as he would suddenly look like a great option from the bench and part of rotation. And that is him now, not counting further progress and development.

 

[El Jefe]

When posters start bringing out the “what was Kane, RVN, Vardy doing at 21” you know they’re clutching at straws.

No one expects a soon to be 22yo to be the finished product but at that age you talk about your projection for the player based on what they’ve done. In recent years we’ve had Rashford, Martial and Greenwood at the 20-22 age and I can’t ever remember their potential or timelines being judged on other strikers trajectory. Our excitement about those players was about their attributes and what they had shown so far and how much better we thought they could be.

Judge Rasmus off the potential he’s shown and if I’m being honest he’s shown very little as far as having top end potential. He had the period where he was outperforming his xG and finishing very well but outside of that he’s a complete ghost in games. Rashford, Martial and Greenwood made me excited for seeing them in our team in the future. Nothing about Hojlund’s game gives me any reason to be excited about the prospect of him being our long term no.9.

 

[Smores]

Feels like a lot of misdirected frustration, it's the clubs fault for buying another prospect rather than pairing him with an experienced striker.

If he was in rotation with a better striker we wouldn't need him to step up and we wouldn't be constantly discussing that he isn't ready to be the main man.

 

[yamo123x]

Underwhelming again, never in the box for crosses, outstrengthed by archie gray most of the game... very passive
I stand by it, he is not a starter striker, in time maybe but now not even close to being good enough to lead the line.

 

[yamo123x]

He can’t hold the ball up well yet he talks about being strong. He’s not particularly pacy; you rarely seem him receive the ball and turn past a defender. He’s never in the right place in the box and his overall movement to make runs in behind is nowhere near the required standard.

I fail to see what he brings to the table. He’s a squad player at best but the fact we squandered £70million on him has led some people here to severely overrate him. We need a proper striker in immediately and I’m sure the manager has already realised this.

well said

 

[Kaos]

Transfer fee aside, he's certainly a decent squad player/prospect. What is clear is he isn't ready to be our permanent starting forward, not yet at least anyway. He needs to play understudy to an actual elite forward we need to be signing in the summer.

 

[Redstain]

When posters start bringing out the “what was Kane, RVN, Vardy doing at 21” you know they’re clutching at straws.

No one expects a soon to be 22yo to be the finished product but at that age you talk about your projection for the player based on what they’ve done. In recent years we’ve had Rashford, Martial and Greenwood at the 20-22 age and I can’t ever remember their potential or timelines being judged on other strikers trajectory. Our excitement about those players was about their attributes and what they had shown so far and how much better we thought they could be.

Judge Rasmus off the potential he’s shown and if I’m being honest he’s shown very little as far as having top end potential. He had the period where he was outperforming his xG and finishing very well but outside of that he’s a complete ghost in games. Rashford, Martial and Greenwood made me excited for seeing them in our team in the future. Nothing about Hojlund’s game gives me any reason to be excited about the prospect of him being our long term no.9.

I agree with this, I reinstated the same in the Garnacho thread that these are performance threads not assessing the trajectory of potential.

Hojlund doesn't demonstrate a very high ceiling even if we assess the criteria of his talent. He is a contributing factor in the assessment of this United team having a poor attacking foundation along with Garnacho and Rashford.

The legacy of the current crop excluding Amad is that of substitute quality raking up first team appearances. INEOS will need to sign a plethora of attacking individuals over the next windows to raise this teams minimum level.

 

[Leftback99]

Like last night, it's far too common (nearly every game) that the opposition have a better striker on the pitch than us.

Him coming good is more through hope than expectation at this point. There aren't many signs he will.

 

[yamo123x]

Rubbish. Tries to compensate for his lack of ability by pretending to be a hard man, like Martinez.

Made me laugh this, superb !
Spends most of his time on the floor, but still thinks he is a hard man

 

[Shinjch]

Really struggle to see what others see in him, yet to see much improvement since he signed too. Hope he can prove me wrong, but I just don't think he will ever be the answer.

 

[Shark]

I really thought this formation under the new manager would suit him, more as the tip of the attack, rather than having to waste energy outside the box. However he's still not getting himself in the right positions. I genuinely think he could be a fox in the box given his actual finishing is great, but the instinct needs to be there.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Ok, I got your point. But we also had Wayne Rooney, Robbie Fowler and Michael Owen who were all top strikers at 21.

Kane being crap when he was young is also a myth

"Kane at 21 was PFA Young Player of the Year scoring 30 goals in all competitions."

"Harry Kane, the 21-year-old phenom who's destroying the Premier League, is the most hyped player in England
Tony Manfred
March 31, 2015"

Sometimes wish the caf had a better advanced search function, I would be amazed if anyone was talking about Kane in August 2014 as someone who was going to go on to be a top level forward. He seemed to explode out of nowhere after being hyped almost 5 years previously (I did hear about him in 2009 as one for the future) when he was very young and then never kicking on much until that breakout season.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Awful again last night, definitely needs to be replaced

 

[poleglass red]

He doesn't have the natural instinct that all good strikers have, where they just seem to be more often than not, in the right place at the right time. We've seen it with Ronaldo, Ruud, Ole, Cole. Even Cavani in his spell here, his off the ball movement was brilliant, even Ibra, he barely ran when he was here but once in the box his movement was excellent. Not sure they can be fully taught, but it has to be improved. You can criticize the service he gets, you can reference his inexperience, which are valid points, but we are seeing crosses come in more now where he is nowhere near them.

 

[Sea-Cow]

I really like Rasmus and wish he could establish himself a young superstar striker for us, and I had high hopes, but I wish I could tell him that he is playing for his job at this club! Surely he knows the chatter about looking to bring in the Swede? So he should be playing out of his mind to convince Ruben that there are other needs that should be addressed first. But, I just haven't seen it lately, unfortunately.

He is unlucky though that Bruno's delicate chip just barely missed against City because that was a lovely pass from Rasmus to put him through. It Bruno scores that it would have been a classic goal, starting as it did with Mazz toying with Doku.

 

[lsd]

He doesn't have the natural instinct that all good strikers have, where they just seem to be more often than not, in the right place at the right time. We've seen it with Ronaldo, Ruud, Ole, Cole. Even Cavani in his spell here, his off the ball movement was brilliant, even Ibra, he barely ran when he was here but once in the box his movement was excellent. Not sure they can be fully taught, but it has to be improved. You can criticize the service he gets, you can reference his inexperience, which are valid points, but we are seeing crosses come in more now where he is nowhere near them.

I don't think it can be taught which is why I doubt Hojlund will ever be there forward we need. He just doesn't have that in his game

 

[dubplate warrior]

People seem to think being young is enough of a reason to be given a chance for years on end.

You still need to have skills and qualities (particularly as an attacker) which will feed you something to build on.

It's one thing not finding the net straight away, finishing can come with work. But you can't improve your first touch at his age, which straight away means he'll never be of the level required when it comes to hold up play. He's also terrible off the ball, we talk about service but he doesn't do himself any favours. I don't even think he's that physically gifted as he constantly is outmuscled by the opposition centre backs.

We can do much better.

 

[Tony247]

He doesn't have the natural instinct that all good strikers have, where they just seem to be more often than not, in the right place at the right time. We've seen it with Ronaldo, Ruud, Ole, Cole. Even Cavani in his spell here, his off the ball movement was brilliant, even Ibra, he barely ran when he was here but once in the box his movement was excellent. Not sure they can be fully taught, but it has to be improved. You can criticize the service he gets, you can reference his inexperience, which are valid points, but we are seeing crosses come in more now where he is nowhere near them.

I highly doubt natural instincts can be taught, such as natural cunningness for deceiving experienced and highly skilled defenders (because that's who they are up against top teams), anticipating a pass, take right position and make run to connect. I don't remember seeing a striker who didn't have it but they developed later. They usually have it but not as sharp as supposed to be which can come later with experience and training.

For example, I used to follow Dominic Solanke from his Chelsea youth. There was quite a hype around him. When I watched him as teenager I thought he's got it but not as productive. He later joined Liverpool and then Bournemouth where he actually started being productive at the age of 24 or something. He is still not an elite level striker but when I watch him today I feel the high probability of him being in the right place at right time.

So if I just compare Hojlund's skill against Solanke when they were similar age the gap I see is huge. Solanke with his visible but unpolished skills could not become an elite striker, I don't see how Hojlund with lack of skill will somehow magically discover it when he is now 21, then polish it, make them super sharp and lead the United attack.

I don't know. I mean miracles do happen. So let's hope they do. Fingers crossed because he is a good lad.

 

[Lyng]

Why people have/had patience with Amad, Martial, Rashford, Mainoo, Giggs, Becks, De Gea, Garnacho....? Because people had something (a lot) to hold on. Talent and some top traits were obvious.
With Hojlund there is really not much which screams "top talent".

Look at Yoro. He is not producing some world class performances but nobody criticize him. Because talent is obvious. You can see that he will develop in top class player.

Yoro has hardly played for us

 

[Andycoleno9]

Yoro has hardly played for us

It is not the point. The point is that with him (and all others mentioned in my post which you conveniently ignored) you can see talent based on which you will "give him time".

Hojlund doesn't have nearly anything which screams "huge talent, give him time". And that is why he is getting criticized. Being just a young player (in his case youngish) doesn't mean that he will become high class player (which is a level which Man Utd as a club should aim, right?). In that case we can just give a chance to Collyer, Wheatley, Gore, Amass, Kukonki....and say; "They are young. Lets be patient."

 

[Lyng]

It is not the point. The point is that with him (and all others mentioned in my post which you conveniently ignored) you can see talent based on which you will "give him time".

Hojlund doesn't have nearly anything which screams "huge talent, give him time". And that is why he is getting criticized. Being just a young player (in his case youngish) doesn't mean that he will become high class player (which is a level which Man Utd as a club should aim, right?). In that case we can just give a chance to Collyer, Wheatley, Gore, Amass, Kukonki....and say; "They are young. Lets be patient."

How can you see talent based on two matches. If you had only seen two matches you had seen of Højlund it would be the same. Fact is he has an extremely clinical conversion rate. He has game where he is very good and a hassle for defenders like Arsenal last season and he has horror shows like any young kid who is having to learn on the job. He should be second choice after a ready made striker.
his numbers compared to age are quite good ao the idea that he isn't a talent is moronic.

 

[Maluco]

He is a good finisher, he is tenacious and doesn’t shirk physical battles and he is decent at short passing and coming deep to get the ball.

He is a year younger than Amad and has already been successful at a higher level than he had before breaking through with us.

I think he can be coached to make better runs and have better movement. At the very least we have a good second striker that will get better, but I think we have more

 

[Mike Smalling]

Whether or not he comes good is anyone's guess, but I think a more important point is that we don't really have time for him to do that. The team needs goals and high-quality forward play to improve results, and I don't see Højlund delivering that consistently from the start of next season. And I'd say the same for Zirkzee.

I think it's pretty clear we should invest in a forward, and I'd place it at least at the same level of importance as LWB and CM.

Højlund will likely have some good games the rest of this season, and some very bad games too. Shitting on him after every bad one gets boring, because we don't have a better alternative and I don't think we will get one in January. He also puts in the work every game, which helps.

 

[The Serpent]

What I don't get is Zirkee is one year older than Hojlund and inside the first 4 games he was already universally written off with people blaming ineos for signing him and it was ok to judge, no one used the argument that we need to wait until he turns into a 25/26 year old before judging. overall he's had 5 starts and scored 4 goals with the rest of the appearances he's come off the bench. Now so far he's shown better technical ability, and link up play movement and goal scoring instincts after playing and he's still being said he needs moving on and he's not even been given a run of starts

Compare that to the sentiment with Hojlund who is basically 22 in Feb and it's a sin to even question his ability let alone suggesting he should be moved on, even when last season he went 14 games without scoring there was plenty of excuses being made.

 

[Lyng]

What I don't get is Zirkee is one year older than Hojlund and inside the first 4 games he was already universally written off with people blaming ineos for signing him and it was ok to judge, no one used the argument that we need to wait until he turns into a 25/26 year old before judging. overall he's had 5 starts and scored 4 goals with the rest of the appearances he's come off the bench. Now so far he's shown better technical ability, and link up play movement and goal scoring instincts after playing and he's still being said he needs moving on and he's not even been given a run of starts

Compare that to the sentiment with Hojlund who is basically 22 in Feb and it's a sin to even question his ability let alone suggesting he should be moved on, even when last season he went 14 games without scoring there was plenty of excuses being made.

What a load of waffle. Nobody says its a sin. And claiming Zirkzee has better movement is odd given he is hardly ever in the box.
Most agree we need a ready made atriker to lead the line. What some of us objekt to is the idea that he doesn't have talent and is Championsship level, because its a moronic take that doesn't add to a proper discussion.
Most of you would have screamed for Cole to be sold before York arrived.

 

[Andycoleno9]

What a load of waffle. Nobody says its a sin. And claiming Zirkzee has better movement is odd given he is hardly ever in the box.
Most agree we need a ready made atriker to lead the line. What some of us objekt to is the idea that he doesn't have talent and is Championsship level, because its a moronic take that doesn't add to a proper discussion.
Most of you would have screamed for Cole to be sold before York arrived.

Who said that he is championship level? Please, show me those posts (even one) where someone said that.

 

[dubplate warrior]

It is not the point. The point is that with him (and all others mentioned in my post which you conveniently ignored) you can see talent based on which you will "give him time".

Hojlund doesn't have nearly anything which screams "huge talent, give him time". And that is why he is getting criticized. Being just a young player (in his case youngish) doesn't mean that he will become high class player (which is a level which Man Utd as a club should aim, right?). In that case we can just give a chance to Collyer, Wheatley, Gore, Amass, Kukonki....and say; "They are young. Lets be patient."

This in a nutshell.

Great post.

 

[Lu Tze]

This in a nutshell.

Great post.

Apart from elite pace and finishing (arguably the two most un-coachable things), Hojlund is merely an average striking talent. If we ignore all the elements that make him a big talent, he's really shite. That's how this and some other knee jerk critical posts read after every game he doesn't score or pull finishes out of nowhere. It's absolute nonsense.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

He will probably score a couple of goals against fcsb in the Europa league, and then everybody will be bringing up silly tweets with stats, the best striker in Europe etc.

 

[Shark]

He will probably score a couple of goals against fcsb in the Europa league, and then everybody will be bringing up silly tweets with stats, the best striker in Europe etc.

What if he scores against Bournemouth?

 

[AarhusUnited]

What a load of waffle. Nobody says its a sin. And claiming Zirkzee has better movement is odd given he is hardly ever in the box.
Most agree we need a ready made atriker to lead the line. What some of us objekt to is the idea that he doesn't have talent and is Championsship level, because its a moronic take that doesn't add to a proper discussion.
Most of you would have screamed for Cole to be sold before York arrived.

Stop with these lies, lies doesnt add anything to a proper discussion.. And tell me did Yoro just begin his football career when he joined United?