[Gordon'sHill]

Keep telling yourself these fables. Getting older does not mean you will suddenly get better. It's not a linear regression. Hojlund lacks the fundamentals and instinct of a top striker. First touch, passing, dribbling, movement. You can't improve on something you don't have.

He will most likely end up in Frankfurt eventually. Not equipped for a top level team or a team aspiring to become one.

Those hoping for some improvement are doing just that, hoping. Along with Mount and Antony, this is a truly baffling signing. His stats were not great, he had 9 goals and 2 assists in the Italian league over 32 matches. Solid but hardly super impressive, how did we focus on him when Newcastle could identify a player like Isak and pay £10m less for him. Isak is great in air, good control, and his stats were mixed but he did get 17 goals in one season in La Liga for a team that are not big scorers. Hojlund has never shown any real strong attributes, he is terrible at linking play, which all top teams needs now from a forward (except City who used to rely on that but now seem happy with a pure goalscorer), he cannot win headers, his control is basically poor, he doesn't seem to have a great shot and shows little movement in the box. As for pace, where is it? Its not like he even makes runs any more off a defender to create space.

 

[Zico1982]

...and those, hoping to be right and wishing to see him off are also just doing that. Hoping. The austrian and italian Højlund-stats are stats for a teenager, starting in a new league and fighting to settle in. They are great stats for a striker at that age. To your comparison. In Isaks last full LaLiga season 21/22 he had 6 goals and two assists in 32 games for Real Sociedad (who ended up 6th in the league) at 22 years of age. He was not tearing the league apart, all though he was really good the year before. He was also dismissed at Dortmund before that. Those are the reasons for the modest fee. Isak is absolutely brilliant now, but it was a journey of ups and downs. None of us knows where it ends with Rasmus. I have given him a couple of threes and fours lately, but we are not playing to his strengths. That goes for a lot of our players right now, and therefore we do look like the worst United team in history.

 

[Toshey]

Wow, the criticism towards him is justified, but saying he is a bad passer is just ignorant.

Even in his worst performances, he should have 1 assist to his name.
And his overall passing is excellent.

Why can't anything be taken in moderation, why do people need to paint even worse picture for already struggling player?

 

[Ali Dia]

Wow, the criticism towards him is justified, but saying he is a bad passer is just ignorant.

Even in his worst performances, he should have 1 assist to his name.
And his overall passing is excellent.

Why can't anything be taken in moderation, why do people need to paint even worse picture for already struggling player?

Drama Queens

 

[DRJosh]

Stealing a living at 85,000 a week

 

[Trequarista10]

The mistake is not about age. Owen was world class at that age. It's more about United having the worst striker in the whole Premier League teams, regardless of age.

Unthinkable that this could happen to one of the biggest Club in the whole planet.

Keep telling yourself these fables. Getting older does not mean you will suddenly get better. It's not a linear regression. Hojlund lacks the fundamentals and instinct of a top striker. First touch, passing, dribbling, movement. You can't improve on something you don't have.

He will most likely end up in Frankfurt eventually. Not equipped for a top level team or a team aspiring to become one.

And Drogba was scoring 1 in 5 in Ligue 2 (even at a couple years older than Hojlund). Ollie Watkins scored 1 in 3 in League 2 at the same age.

What's certainly true is he is nowhere near good enough right now to be a starting striker at this level. Age obviously plays a part in that, as many (probably most) strikers at 21 aren't good enough to do play at this level, and many (probably most) improve significantly throughout their 20s. The likes of Owen are an exception rather than the norm. And it's considerably more difficult as a lone striker than playing in a 2.

Whether he has the potential to become a good, or even decent, striker at the top level is all speculation. But his current failings are not a strong indication that he doesn't have the potential. Likewise, simply being young isn't an indication that he will reach that level.

The problem is more about the decision to purchase him for the amount of money we did, and to give him the role as first choice #9. Also, as someone else pointed out, his decision to come here was also questionable. Playing at a level that he's not good enough for could prove detrimental to his development.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Keep telling yourself these fables. Getting older does not mean you will suddenly get better. It's not a linear regression. Hojlund lacks the fundamentals and instinct of a top striker. First touch, passing, dribbling, movement. You can't improve on something you don't have.

He will most likely end up in Frankfurt eventually. Not equipped for a top level team or a team aspiring to become one.

Which part of “all other things aside” don’t you understand?

 

[Isotope]

People don't understand. It's not about the age. We could get a world class or capable striker and he could be 17, 18, 19, 20, who cares? Just like every other position, age doesn't matter. The mistake is we're having a striker that is the worst in the entire League.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

One of our biggest ever flops.

 

[Isotope]

And Drogba was scoring 1 in 5 in Ligue 2 (even at a couple years older than Hojlund). Ollie Watkins scored 1 in 3 in League 2 at the same age.

What's certainly true is he is nowhere near good enough right now to be a starting striker at this level. Age obviously plays a part in that, as many (probably most) strikers at 21 aren't good enough to do play at this level, and many (probably most) improve significantly throughout their 20s. The likes of Owen are an exception rather than the norm. And it's considerably more difficult as a lone striker than playing in a 2.

Whether he has the potential to become a good, or even decent, striker at the top level is all speculation. But his current failings are not a strong indication that he doesn't have the potential. Likewise, simply being young isn't an indication that he will reach that level.

The problem is more about the decision to purchase him for the amount of money we did, and to give him the role as first choice #9. Also, as someone else pointed out, his decision to come here was also questionable. Playing at a level that he's not good enough for could prove detrimental to his development.

That's why Drogba wasn't Chelsea's main striker until he's proven good enough. He also had Mateja Kezman, and Gudjohnsen as competitors.

 

[Apokalips]

And Drogba was scoring 1 in 5 in Ligue 2 (even at a couple years older than Hojlund). Ollie Watkins scored 1 in 3 in League 2 at the same age.

What's certainly true is he is nowhere near good enough right now to be a starting striker at this level. Age obviously plays a part in that, as many (probably most) strikers at 21 aren't good enough to do play at this level, and many (probably most) improve significantly throughout their 20s. The likes of Owen are an exception rather than the norm. And it's considerably more difficult as a lone striker than playing in a 2.

Whether he has the potential to become a good, or even decent, striker at the top level is all speculation. But his current failings are not a strong indication that he doesn't have the potential. Likewise, simply being young isn't an indication that he will reach that level.

The problem is more about the decision to purchase him for the amount of money we did, and to give him the role as first choice #9. Also, as someone else pointed out, his decision to come here was also questionable. Playing at a level that he's not good enough for could prove detrimental to his development.

To be fair, you would not turn down the dream move and he obviously believes in himself so that shouldn't really be a major negative strike against him as a person. The decision by us to purchase him for big money and make him our first choice is one of the worst decisions I have seen and was evident at the time that it was a ridiculous decision. It would be fine to buy a big money young player if you already have Cristiano, Benzema and Bale, but to buy one and stick him in as number 1 striker is ridiculous. To not address that properly the next summer was arguably an even worse decision.

Even if he was a wonderkid, which he isn't, that would be crazy - when we bought Rooney, we had Van Nistelrooy and Saha, when Real bought Vinicius and Rodrygo they had the aforementioned players which enabled these players to develop without the pressure beyond their ability. Endrick cost a bomb but isn't relied upon as a starter also, it is especially weird when we had far greater young talents than Hojlund in Martial, Greenwood and Rashford who didn't work out as hoped so you'd have thought we would be more careful about relying upon young talent solely but then again we got sucked in by Rashford's 3 month purple patch and Ten Hag's FA Cup win so it's not as though we are averse to putting all of our eggs in bad baskets.

 

[Crimson King]

That's why Drogba wasn't Chelsea's main striker until he's proven good enough.

He wasn't really ready though. His first couple of seasons were pretty unspectacular in the league and a lot of people saw him as an expensive flop. Although his goal return was still decent, to be honest. It wasn't until his 3rd season that he really exploded and got over 30 goals in all comps and cemented himself as a top striker of that era. He only managed to score over 30 goals in 1 more season after that

 

[Isotope]

He wasn't really ready though. His first couple of seasons were pretty unspectacular in the league and a lot of people saw him as an expensive flop. Although his goal return was still decent, to be honest. It wasn't until his 3rd season that he really exploded and got over 30 goals in all comps and cemented himself as a top striker of that era. He only managed to score over 30 goals in 1 more season after that

He's not all about goals. His first and 2nd season goal tally are similar to the rest of his Chelsea's career. That 3rd season is an anomaly, instead of a constant.

This was him against United in 2004 season (his 1st season). Looked polished already to me.

 

[SungSam7]

I'm not sure I understand the logic here, didn't he have only 1 decent season before we signed him?

That's what a newly promoted team does, signs a player off a decent season, get them to lead the line and hope it works. The United of old would have signed this guy to come into play behind already established strikers. For example Rooney when RVN and Solskjaer were there. Not to forget Saha. Mental stuff really. Not sure what the club was doing.

 

[Ekeke]

Wow, the criticism towards him is justified, but saying he is a bad passer is just ignorant.

Even in his worst performances, he should have 1 assist to his name.
And his overall passing is excellent.

Why can't anything be taken in moderation, why do people need to paint even worse picture for already struggling player?

I'd say he's average to weak with his passing, but he's done quite well a few times having a run down the line and pulling the ball back for a teammate. He's had a few good passes from that situation

 

[Ekeke]

I'm not sure I understand the logic here, didn't he have only 1 decent season before we signed him?

That's what a newly promoted team does, signs a player off a decent season, get them to lead the line and hope it works. The United of old would have signed this guy to come into play behind already established strikers. For example Rooney when RVN and Solskjaer were there. Not to forget Saha. Mental stuff really. Not sure what the club was doing.

Well its not just "The United of old" - its also what we were doing just a few years ago. Ibrahimovic, Cavani and then Ronaldo all older and experienced strikers. Then we just stopped and now we've gone with a few young ones that had 1 decent season

 

[Hester_manc]

I read this:

At the same age as Højlund:

- When Gyokeres was his age, he was on loan at Swansea scoring 0 in 11.

- Lewandowski scored 8 in 33 for Dortmund.

- Zlatan was scoring 13 á season at Ajax.

- Just cause Mbappe and Haaland are freaks does not mean everyone else has to be. Most players need time to develop.

 

[SungSam7]

I read this:

At the same age as Højlund:

- When Gyokeres was his age, he was on loan at Swansea scoring 0 in 11.

- Lewandowski scored 8 in 33 for Dortmund.

- Zlatan was scoring 13 á season at Ajax.

- Just cause Mbappe and Haaland are freaks does not mean everyone else has to be. Most players need time to develop.

That's all well and good, but you need to have a striker that has it in them to carry the load while another learns.

We can't just throw an underdeveloped player and hope that they carry us in terms of goals.

 

[Gandalf]

People don't understand. It's not about the age. We could get a world class or capable striker and he could be 17, 18, 19, 20, who cares? Just like every other position, age doesn't matter. The mistake is we're having a striker that is the worst in the entire League.

OK, you have stated that multiple times now in this thread, can we take it as read that your opinion is noted.

 

[Kostov]

I remember the summer when we were buying him, I suggested Vlahovic but posters on here laughed about the idea. Suggesting stats and how Vlahovic wasn't worth it. Now I think Hojlund will turn this tide around, but still think that Vlahovic was the better choice.

 

[lex talionis]

I don't recall Hojlund's numbers with Atalanta being all that amazing. A promising talent, sure, but he never looked anything more than a useful squad man for a club of United's stature.

 

[Toshey]

One of our biggest ever flops.

Ridiculous.
He is struggling and looks lost.
He has every chance to turn it around!

 

[Gandalf]

I don't recall Hojlund's numbers with Atalanta being all that amazing. A promising talent, sure, but he never looked anything more than a useful squad man for a club of United's stature.

Promising talent is precisely where he was. HIs numbers with Atalanta reflected that he was not their main striker, he was 19 and used primarily off the bench as a talent they were developing for which a return of 9 goals in the league met expectations. I think it was a function of the lack of striking options that created the transfer interest in him at the end of that season, Atalanta really were not looking to sell but once the price reached a certain point they could not say no. He was rated, PSG were in for him early on but they dropped out once the price started to soar. For his own development he should have stayed where he was but if you were a childhood United fan and the chance to join them came your way would you turn them down? The move has come probably 3 or 4 years too early in his career and due to the mess we are in there is no patience with him nor any real plan for his development nor plan B when things are not working.

 

[Rozay]

I read this:

At the same age as Højlund:

- When Gyokeres was his age, he was on loan at Swansea scoring 0 in 11.

- Lewandowski scored 8 in 33 for Dortmund.

- Zlatan was scoring 13 á season at Ajax.

- Just cause Mbappe and Haaland are freaks does not mean everyone else has to be. Most players need time to develop.

Stats stats stats. Use your eyes. Fed up of this lazy, AI approach to football. We’re not stupid, everyone knows what a promising young footballer looks like. There was no campaign for Ronaldo to be sold in 2004 because he ‘only got 5 goals in 4738382 mins’. Rooney didn’t score his career best in his first couple of seasons. All we need is moments that demonstrate why a player is worth the wait, and Rooney and Ronaldo had plenty of those (many of which did not result in G/A. Just simply exhibitions of talent).

People would have far more patience, optimism, faith, hope or whatever with Hojlund if he simply looked like a good footballer. The false, lazy and simplistic narrative is that people have simply given up on him because he hasn’t scored 20 goals. The lazy and simplistic response to that would be to say ‘neither did Isak at 22’. The difference between Isak and Hojlund this season is a lot more than 15 league goals. It’s an enormous difference in ability to play football. Last night, Isak didn’t score a goal, yet won MOTM against one of the best teams in the country.

There’s a reason why every top club in the PL was chasing Tel in January, despite him not having scored 20 in a season. Not every young forward without impressive numbers is the same. Similarly, Hojlund scoring 17 goals last season was not the same as Martial scoring 17 goals in his first season. Hojlund doesn’t have top level ability, and frankly, would need to score an incredible amount of goals to justify his place at a club like this, because he obviously doesn’t have the ability of other supremely talented footballers to influence games at the highest level in other ways. There are zero statistics that formed the basis of excitement around Kobbie Mainoo when he broke through last summer, and zero statistics that would justify the price tag we would put on him on the market. Just watch the game and you will see the potential. McTominay recorded better numbers than Mainoo last season from midfield, yet it was obvious who the club would prefer to sell.

The players you listed had no business at s club like Manchester United at those ages, and they were not there. The only 20 year old strikers who should be signed for clubs like ours are those who have the obvious talent to be amongst the best strikers in the world, regardless of their numbers in the present. A club would spend 60m on a 17 year old with only one goal to his name if they thought he was special. This has very little to do with stats. We should not be signing 20 year old strikers with the talent of Hojlund. Not for 70m and not even for the 40m that everyone says is his true value. You simply don’t sign an undeveloped 20 year old striker unless he has world-class potential. Otherwise, you buy a young player who isn’t ready, in the hope that several hundred games later, he becomes what exactly? ‘Good?’ I would sign Martial at 19 10 times over for big money again. It made obvious sense. Hojlund was no young Martial.

Anyone attacking those for questioning Hojlund can only be defending him because he plays for Manchester United. There is no way that this same player would have the same excuses made for them at any other club.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Reading the posts about stats.

I agree that when a young player is bought that is considered ''promising'' etc.. The stats become an insane talking point.

Personally I find with Rasmus is he hasn't done enough. Not due to a lack of trying and I think he must be frustrated. I think he spends a lot of time bursting his gut and let's be fair, he doesn't get anywhere near enough service. I remember a few weeks back he barely got the ball but he ran and ran like a horse. Garnacho had the ball and Rasmus was wide open, in the right position, and Garnacho took the shot. On one hand I didn't hate that Garnacho took the shot but Rasmus was in the perfect position after running and running all game. It's when he kicked the post. That was pure frustration.

Whether it is controversial to say this, forget about the stats with him. That shouldn't be the main thing with him. The main thing is, in my opinion, is he getting enough service, and is he in the right position? Are the other players on the pitch actually trying to get the ball to him enough?

That's my take with him.

 

[Red00012]

One of our biggest ever flops.

He’s not even in the top 3 in this squad

 

[Bobski]

Anyone attacking those for questioning Hojlund can only be defending him because he plays for Manchester United. There is no way that this same player would have the same excuses made for them at any other club.

Look at the mockery of Havertz and Nunez who are comfortably better players. "Oh but they are older" Yes.

I agree with you though, outside of some excellent finishes there has been very little to get excited about with Hojlund, very few demonstrations of an exceptional burgeoning talent. These criticisms were here last season as well, all it would take is for people to go back to his performance thread from last season and see the same discussions, people generally were not complaining about his goal record, it was everything else.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

He's not all about goals. His first and 2nd season goal tally are similar to the rest of his Chelsea's career. That 3rd season is an anomaly, instead of a constant.

This was him against United in 2004 season (his 1st season). Looked polished already to me.

Wow Drogba was some striker. Cech to Drogba, you would know he would glue the ball to his feet or chest from the air... Great finisher too. Not sure what we can expect from Hojlund. I dont remember any player whose hold up play got significantly better over years, you either have spacial awareness or not. Of course it can get better but not significantly imo. player like Drogba would be a wet dream for us now, but not many strikers like that and on that level on the green turf these days..

 

[Gandalf]

Wow Drogba was some striker. Cech to Drogba, you would know he would glue the ball to his feet or chest from the air... Great finisher too. Not sure what we can expect from Hojlund. I dont remember any player whose hold up play got significantly better over years, you either have spacial awareness or not. Of course it can get better but not significantly imo. player like Drogba would be a wet dream for us now, but not many strikers like that and on that level on the green turf these days..

Hold up play can improve significantly over the years but it really does depend on the role you are being asked to play. The percentage chance of Hojlund winning those long balls from Onana is pretty slim, the defender always has an edge over the striker with his back to goal on those long aerial punts and even more so when they can get away with the little pulls and nudges as the ball is in the air. For us it is tough to understand what we want to achieve when we do that as there is rarely anyone close for Rasmus to give the ball to even if he should win it.

If you go back and look at how Rasmus was used before he joined us he was not a classic number 9, although he has pace and clearly is a strong boy, he was used to running the channels and receiving the ball when facing goal as Atalanta play a fast counter attacking style of football. Clearly it has been decided to use him as more of a target man with his back to goal but what kind of coaching is he getting? I really don't think the coaching under ETH was up to much as everyone he signed seem to regress and of course Amorim has had little time to work with the players in detail. I have hope that we will see a number of the players improve between now and the end of the season because to be honest, with our finances as they are, either Amorim gets a tune out of this squad or he will be out of a job before he gets the chance to make significant changes in personnel.

 

[Fobal]

I read this:

At the same age as Højlund:

- When Gyokeres was his age, he was on loan at Swansea scoring 0 in 11.

- Lewandowski scored 8 in 33 for Dortmund.

- Zlatan was scoring 13 á season at Ajax.

- Just cause Mbappe and Haaland are freaks does not mean everyone else has to be. Most players need time to develop.

Please to everyone, stop with these lists...

There were quite a lot of other players in the history already scoring quite a lot even not being pure strikers, even second strikers and such, putting this kind of lists won't do any good to Rasmus and it doesn't help the kid to be put among those established names, less with the context of how many of those names already had more in their game than just scoring even when just starting.

The problem with the kid was already stated plenty of times: not proven enough in his carreer to pay such a huge sum that will always feel heavy on any head (even on players with a prior proven period on another team) and at the same time arriving to a VERY disfunctional team being mostly a classic pure striker and not precisly a player that can create much by himself trought driblling, etc. That is an scenario that Rasmus had and has to deal. While nowadays he is dealing with some very low confidence that hopefully a couple of goals would help to gain it again.

PD: Rasmus in comparison with Lewa and Zlatan from that list and others not mentioned scoring less or more than Rasmus at 20, already showed a lot of class with the ball and compensate the logical period for any forward (even thsoe that ended being legendary) to start scoring more regularly.

 

[croadyman]

I remember the summer when we were buying him, I suggested Vlahovic but posters on here laughed about the idea. Suggesting stats and how Vlahovic wasn't worth it. Now I think Hojlund will turn this tide around, but still think that Vlahovic was the better choice.

Yeah Vlahovic was the better choice

 

[Kopral Jono]

Hojlund is a talent and is very low in confidence right now, but that summer (on top of making Sabitzer permanent) I wanted us to throw the kitchen sink on a proven, world-class number nine and England captain in Harry Kane instead of signing him, Mount and Onana. Well, well...

 

[ayushreddevil9]

What is this talent people are seeing? We have seen amazing young players play for us. Rashford and Martial were miles better than this guy at his age. He doesn’t even do the basics right. Fails to make threatening runs. Has horrendous touch and cant stay on his feet.

I’m hoping its low confidence but honestly I don’t see how he improves dramatically the way he is going.

 

[bosnian_red]

I remember the summer when we were buying him, I suggested Vlahovic but posters on here laughed about the idea. Suggesting stats and how Vlahovic wasn't worth it. Now I think Hojlund will turn this tide around, but still think that Vlahovic was the better choice.

While better, I'm still pretty convinced that Vlahović would be a big money flop in the prem just as he's been a big money flop at Juve

 

[croadyman]

Hojlund is a talent and is very low in confidence right now, but that summer (on top of making Sabitzer permanent) I wanted us to throw the kitchen sink on a proven, world-class number nine and England captain in Harry Kane instead of signing him, Mount and Onana. Well, well...

Yeah I wanted us to do that as well, a top class number 9 makes significantly more difference than those two without a doubt.

 

[Martial]

Yeah I wanted us to do that as well, a top class number 9 makes significantly more difference than those two without a doubt.

It was the obvious move to anyone who wasn't an utter moron with zero understanding of the game. I'd actually rate it as an almost unforgivable decision.

I think we realise that mistake now from reading this Melissa Reddy's article a few days ago:

An interesting element is that in Omar Berrada, Wilcox and the rest of the senior executive team, the club now have people who would aggressively pursue a target they want rather than not even try.

The defeatism over Harry Kane still hangs heavy over United, as does the non-action over Erling Haaland when they had a head start thanks to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Even if we pretend he's not crap and it's only a matter of low confidence, how does that make it any better? We need players with strong characters and confidence in themselves at United. Either way he's not good enough

 

[SoCross]

Really hope he turns things around but that first touch worries me; the ball bounces off him. Low on confidence, not playing to his strengths, I get that but his technique shouldn’t let him down even if the above two are happening.

 

[croadyman]

It was the obvious move to anyone who wasn't an utter moron with zero understanding of the game. I'd actually rate it as an almost unforgivable decision.

I think we realise that mistake now from reading this Melissa Reddy's article a few days ago:

Yeah we could have had Haaland and Kane, heck even Bellingham as well if Murtough hadn't stuck nose in. Gives you a really sick feeling doesn't it.

 

[Xeque_279]

Earlier this season.



Honestly there is a player there but he's regressed a lot recently and his confidence has taken a big hit, he can't even do the basics right. Needs time away from the limelight and anyway he should be playing second fiddle to a more experienced striker.