If this is new evidence, then the prosecution can decide to change the charge.
If they do not and this evidence is legit, then I agree with you. The charge should be changed.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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If they do not and this evidence is legit, then I agree with you. The charge should be changed.
Glad you responded back and I agree with you. To add on to your 3rd point, this is the biggest and most important fact - "Obama (no one person) can't unilaterally do anything for black people."
I still stand by my belief that violence fighting violence isn't going to solve anything. There's so many things that have to be done in parallel and because of said violence, which is where my belief comes in. As a whole, the American socioeconomic structure was fragile and is broken, but doesn't mean it doesn't work. It's just that it doesn't work well enough for a country this big, this diverse, and this wealthy.
As mentioned, Congress, members in federal, state, and local judiciaries, American corporations on Wall Street and Local Street (local small businesses), all must enact policies and programs that promote and enable for equal opportunity and are devoid of purposeful suppression of people based on ethnicity. That's a tall fecking order that's going to continue to take multiple generations. And in some to many cases, that's just not going to happen. You've got too many people, regardless of ethnicity, who do not want to lose their status, money, and influence. Just so happens most people are of white ethnicities because they didn't have a generation(s) of suppression and racism not only holding them back and holding them down, but also leveraged to boost people at levels way, way higher than ever possibly imagined. So by the time people who are able to start building something, they are severely disadvantaged and still have to cope with the system in front of them that's broken. It's a situation compounded by other situations created before them and it's exhausting, it's daunting, it's hopeless.
Because of the decentralized nature of American government, it's extremely difficult for a sitting President to have generational impact. However, it is the people and systems that outlast presidential terms such as Congress, American corporations, local law enforcement departments, local judiciary, that must be critically examined and held accountable. All it takes is money, time, money, attorneys, more money, lobbyists, and more money to do this! But it has to be something that is focused on every single day, by every single person, plus people who are dedicated to bringing more equality and a better system and a better society.
The responses by local law enforcement, local government officials, and local community leaders in Minnesota, regardless of political party, have been a total and complete failure hence the system being broken. The President just continues to break the existing broken parts into more pieces that become distorted and broken beyond repair. It's just not good enough considering how diverse and different and large this country is. Making direct, informed, harsh, and transparent decisions should have prevented unnecessary damage and violence and hate and mass confusion.
MLK's peaceful protests wouldn't have worked without the violent methods of other leaders at the time. Also, the televised nature of the resistance i.e police brutality against even those peaceful protests helped. It's not a vacuum. Multiple factors played a part, not just MLK.
This one made me laugh.The replies
That makes sense at least.
Can I ask you, as you seem to have a pretty good grasp in this area, is there any state in the US where a prosecutor can bring a higher charge or degree of murder, and in the case of a jury finding guilt but not sufficient evidence of intent, can simply impose a verdict of a lower degree? Is it always automatically a case of win the case on the higher charge or risk going bust and lose the conviction altogether?
Is there a possibility to take away his Irish citizenship for being so unaware of Irish history?
The current Tory Government could give him in exchange British citizenship......
The hopelessness in their voices is just so sad.
I can't even begin to understand how they feel. There's just so many things I take for granted and probably should be a lot more thankful for.
I can't even begin to understand how they feel. There's just so many things I take for granted and probably should be a lot more thankful for.
Not necessarily that they dont care as there are many black Americans who dont condone violence. Would you say the violence is NECESSARY to force the government to reform the police and their practices as well as actually give them legit punishment and jail time or in other words, revoke their "get out of jail free card?" I feel the police feel too protected, are poorly trained and have low regard of life. There have been plenty of riots over the years and still and no change after. How effective is it?
Exactly. The violent aspects of the movement always helped.
This guy talks a lot of sense, better strategy and organisation is required.
Sorry for not replying, just seen these. Yes, I agree.
As @SilentWitness also states, UK and USA (also Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden) history is specifically rooted in the enslavement of black people and the slave trade, no matter how much some people try to whitewash the history. Most of these nations also had colonies which pillaged, raped and abused BAME countries too. At certain points of history, what we now consider as racist and inhumane acts were perfectly legal and moral.
Despite best efforts of many, some people in those countries still hold onto these beliefs; and practice in plain sight like Chauvin or most often hidden behind layers of disguise like Amy Cooper (ie: racial discrimination in education, social mobility, professional employment etc).
It's not surprising to me that George Floyd's tragedy is resonating with people in above countries, and those they have subjugated.
One major turning point in this outrage is that finally, many Millennials and Gen X without direct lived experience are also outraged enough to join the street protests. That didn't happen in Rodney King or the major race riots in UK and USA 1960s and is something noteworthy and to be hopeful about.
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Yep! It makes me feel ashamed that I have taken my life for granted.
Racism rose to forefront again because of him. It was always there but his prominence lead to it being out in the open again. So I doubt anything he says would help.
The jury may convict the defendant of a lesser included charge even if they acquit them of the most serious charge, and in a murder trial they are always instructed that they have this option.
Note that the officer was charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter. If a jury found that they didn’t believe he committed murder, they could still convict him of manslaughter. Another example would be someone being charged with kidnapping and false imprisonment. You have to falsely imprison to kidnap, so even if you aren’t convicted of kidnapping, the prosecution might still prove you falsely imprisoned.
Now with the evidence of that body cam audio... if legit... they could raise the charges to a higher degree of murder and now have 3rd degree as the lesser charge.
He’s referring to the support for Franco in Spain.
Yes, of course certain situations require police to neutralise the threat. But trained snipers are very accurate with their aim. I suspect in that case, the threat could have been neutralised without taking his life. I don't know the case well enough, neither am I an expert on specific UK cases of police brutality, so I am guilty of posting a tweet that may be inaccurate.
But I don't believe that negates the actual point I was making.
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Still cant believe how Pepsi messed up what was a brilliant insight and concept with this as its outcome!
This is closer to the ad Pepsi or someone else could have made.
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Not to try to defend Obama here but there's video posted in here of a Minnesota police chief celebrating Trump because the Obama era efforts to curtail police brutality and introduce oversight are again. I agree he didn't do enough but let's not ignore that Holder and Obama tried to implement some changes which received massive pushback from the police.
When they killed Philandro Castillo the jury could not convict the cop due to the specific wording of the law regarding culpable negligence being the main factor of his acquittal and it will probably be the same. They have ways to not prosecute cops.
did you see the rent VDO of the officers "doing something inside their car" ... suspected they were beating Floyd George inside the car before taking him outside into the knee neck crank
https://nypost.com/2020/05/31/video-appears-to-show-cops-george-floyd-struggling-amid-arrest/
The truth they didn't teach you in high school history
Couldn't answer before, apologies. There is also another stance I don't understand.
You only seem to see murder and then violent reaction while the chain of events looks more like murder, protest and unrest which in some cases was indeed violent. And then that unrest being dealt with sheer and unexplainable brutality from police forces in many cases where they had zero reason to do so.
If protesters don't help their case as you say can you explain me how this police behaviour helps in calming things down. How it helps in repairing their image and people's trust?
Cheers. That's the route you would hope they take, provided of course that the body cam audio evidence is as reported.
Being honest, I'd argue for that course of action even without that extra bodycam evidence and based solely on the video footage and witness testimony, but I can understand why more knowledgeable people than I suggest otherwise.
Sidenote, he's a Twitter account that's well worth following. Debunking guff on the regular.
Don't let Belgium off the hook.
I don't want to answer for @villain but just like to provide input and feedback as you have good questions.
Violence is more and more important (necessary if you want to say) as a tool to show tangible intent and seriousness. It's visceral and causes reaction that (should) reverberates up, down, left, and right. However, police are protected which is fine, but not fine when corrupted officials, elected mostly, feel they are threatened when it comes to their political aspirations or legacy, of which was build on people.
I don't think police are poorly trained nor do they have a low regard of life. What isn't said, is that police are not mentally or emotionally supported or vetted throughout their careers. As with 'normal' citizens, they go through different phases in their life, just like people in their careers. The further you're in a job and gaining promotions or status/positions or tenure, you have different views and opinions. And at times, your fundamentals or core oaths, especially as it relates to police....you go away from it because you're "better than that" or they just not that same person who took those oaths.
I come from a military and law enforcement family and know of people who are in law enforcement. They aren't bad people, however their occupation as a public law enforcement officer does change their attitudes a bit and they do see things differently. What is unfortunate is that those people who do their duty responsibly and proudly are painted in a negative light and then fear for themselves more and more. They don't have the proper emotional and mental support from within their department and within the public eye (i.e. media).
The former police officer who initiated the murder of George Floyd held him down using a technique that is not part of his training and he neglected the safety of Floyd. He wasn't a threat to their well being or others around him, so the nature and force of his arrest was illegitimate and eventually caused his death.
For some balance, there are good police who helped defuse the situation:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...LNUcKpju2VTcySkL5LmlJSqq0sMwaz0A#5c8112b05edb
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisett...LNUcKpju2VTcySkL5LmlJSqq0sMwaz0A#5c8112b05edb
That’s going to end up being an interesting bit of cross examination. The cop will likely have the defense say he was resisting in the car to try and muddy the water for the jury.
I was going to say the same thing, they could be the worst of the lot and the rest isn't pretty.
Apologies and thanks. Edited.
Oh King Leopold...
Innocent people are always caught in the crossfire during war. Unfortunate circumstance.
But even then, which is probably why they did this to begin with, they are inside the vehicle and unless there's clear, substantial evidence that the officers are kicking the shit out of George Floyd, it's a nothing burger (unfortunately). Then you have the coroner and then an independent 3rd party examiner examine his body for physical assault and then the prosecution showing, some how, before and after images that show Floyd center around this specific situation.
You can have a divided jury on something like this because it's an assumption at the end of the day. And the prosecution is going to go after criminal charges that have clear, substantial evidence that line up and support, without question, their charges that can be translated to a trial jury.
What jury ratio has to agree for it to be charged as 1st degree murder? How the heck will they find a neutral jury for this???!!!
@Carolina Red surely has to be all jurors, right? Because if not, then it's a hung jury, which then goes (usually) into a re-trial and that's something the prosecutors cannot afford to happen.