Protests following the killing of George Floyd

BobbyManc said:


Ireland apparently won their independence through peaceful protest, in what must be one of the worst takes possible on the protests on Twitter.
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I want to fecking fight Joseph Murray right fecking now. He is probably 4th generation Scots irish that couldn't name one county in Ireland. What a delusional dick.
 
iluvoursolskjær said:
I don't think @Cloud7 is quite playing the 'vs' game. What stats are you comparing btw? Or this this just rhetoric. Cos the death of America's foreign policy and imperialism is pretty substantial dunno if you know.
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They were founded as a Federative Republic after declaring independence from the English crown. He referred to the founding as a positive or negative event. So you either have the United States, or you have the British Colonies. I don't much know which other options there are. Between those, I'll take the Republic.

On a broader note, this isn't a topic where you can just say "America bad". Are we coming at this from the perspective of Europeans? Because they're essentially the instigators of all this. All of the modern Americas is just the continuation of European rule but with political independence. I don't see why there should be a reset of the "atrocity scoreboard" if that's what we're going by.
 
From what I can see from the images on here and on other media forums we have a large majority of people who are sick and tired of the police treating coloured people in such ways so are peacefully protesting. Then we have people on the streets who lets be honest don't care about George Floyd and they are they to use the tension to break into shops and steal.

For me that gives the movement a bad name and makes it easy for the racist's in Amercia to point the finger and say well look at them .
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
20% : Large numbers of Police are also those who didn’t make it/cut it in the ‘Defence’ forces. I’ve seen 40% quoted but 20% is backed by data.
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Sorry, but ex military and people who didn't make the cut for military are two different groups of people aren't they?
 
MTF said:
They were founded as a Federative Republic after declaring independence from the English crown. He referred to the founding as a positive or negative event. So you either have the United States, or you have the British Colonies. I don't much know which other options there are. Between those, I'll take the Republic.

On a broader note, this isn't a topic where you can just say "America bad". Are we coming at this from the perspective of Europeans? Because they're essentially the instigators of all this. All of the modern Americas is just the continuation of European rule but with political independence. I don't see why there should be a reset of the "atrocity scoreboard" if that's what we're going by.
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I agree they are a continuation of European colonialism. But you just don't see what's happening in US in Europe. So there was some individual evolution along the way wasn't there.

Europe for all its fault doesn't come close to the level of systemic murdering of POC.

That too being the case that USA are 'leaders of the free world'. Booyaa
 
MTF said:
vs the King of England? I'll take United States, thanks.
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Did I say anything about England? I was born and grew up on an island that was a British colony right up until 1962, so I'm not sure where you'll have ever found me saying the British Empire is any better than the US. They're both awful. That's a cool argument you proposed there but go tell it to someone it actually applies to.
 
Imagine being so shit at your job that your entire county needs to stay at home.
 
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A friend of mine protesting in Greenville, SC just text me...

“There are inserts at this Greenville protest. Shit just hit the fan. Riot gear and tear gas is out.

We got out of there. I can’t stomach that. Two shirtless white guys instigated shit and they got jumped. I thought they were dead. Something out of a movie.”
 
Speaking of, if this scene was in a movie it would be winning awards for cinematography:



It's incredible how well timed some of the set pieces are. Hard to believe this is real life.
 
MTF said:
They were founded as a Federative Republic after declaring independence from the English crown. He referred to the founding as a positive or negative event. So you either have the United States, or you have the British Colonies. I don't much know which other options there are. Between those, I'll take the Republic.

On a broader note, this isn't a topic where you can just say "America bad". Are we coming at this from the perspective of Europeans? Because they're essentially the instigators of all this. All of the modern Americas is just the continuation of European rule but with political independence. I don't see why there should be a reset of the "atrocity scoreboard" if that's what we're going by.
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Canada is a next door possibility of what could have happened if the American Revolution. Not perfect up there but in the context of this thread they have a better track record so...
 
iluvoursolskjær said:
I agree they are a continuation of European colonialism. But you just don't see what's happening in US in Europe. So there was some individual evolution along the way wasn't but there.

Europe for all its fault doesn't come close to the level of systemic murdering of POC.
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For context, I'm Brazilian who just happens to have lived in the US the past few years. Certainly as a Brazilian I don't actually look to throw blame of our immense shortcomings as a society on the Portuguese. But Brazil, the US and much of the rest of the Americas was left to deal with a fairly unique problem in the 19th and 20th centuries which was a significant portion of the population in bondage and also of a very distinct ethnic make-up. It's been dealt with awfully by both the US and Brazil, albeit in different ways. Condemnation is valid. My partial counter-argument though is that we can't be certain that any society would have dealt with it much better. Certainly none of the European countries had almost 15% of the population on their home soil as foreign slaves.
Cloud7 said:
Did I say anything about England? I was born and grew up on an island that was a British colony right up until 1962, so I'm not sure where you'll have ever found me saying the British Empire is any better than the US. They're both awful. That's a cool argument you proposed there but go tell it to someone it actually applies to.
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Then as a former colonized you should understand at least one positive about the founding of the US: it was the template for most subsequent independence movements. I'm sorry that it took so long in the case of your country. Is it Trinidad & Tobago or Jamaica?
 
diarm said:
Speaking of, if this scene was in a movie it would be winning awards for cinematography:



It's incredible how well timed some of the set pieces are. Hard to believe this is real life.
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Children of Men 2.
 
MTF said:
Then as a former colonized you should understand at least one positive about the founding of the US: it was the template for most subsequent independence movements. I'm sorry that it took so long in the case of your country. Is it Trinidad & Tobago or Jamaica?
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Trinidad. I feel like something got lost along the way in what you gathered from my post. I didn’t mean the US gaining independence was a bad thing. I meant that since then, they’ve committed a ridiculous amount of atrocities, and since they’ve been in charge of their own destiny, there’s been a lot more negatives than positives associated with them.

The atrocities perpetrated there to black people are worse than we’ve seen virtually anywhere else in the world in the last century or so, with the only comparable place really being South Africa. And that’s before we even get into the amount of blood they’ve shed, both directly and indirectly all around the world.

So sure, them gaining their independence was all well and good, I’m not arguing that point, but what they’ve done since then has been awful, by and large.
 


The protest in Greenville, SC had been peaceful up until those agitators inserted themselves and started causing problems.

Greenville Police were even holding pro-protest signs.
 
CNN is reporting that Trump was stuffed into his underground bunker a couple nights ago for a while.
 
sammsky1 said:
As @SilentWitness also states, UK and USA (also Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden) history is specifically rooted in the enslavement of black people and the slave trade, no matter how much some people try to whitewash the history. Most of these nations also had colonies which pillaged, raped and abused BAME countries too. At certain points of history, what we now consider as racist and inhumane acts were perfectly legal and moral.

Despite best efforts of many, some people in those countries still hold onto these beliefs; and practice in plain sight like Chauvin or most often hidden behind layers of disguise like Amy Cooper (ie: racial discrimination in education, social mobility, professional employment etc).

It's not surprising to me that George Floyd's tragedy is resonating with people in above countries, and those they have subjugated.

One major turning point in this outrage is that finally, many Millennials and Gen X without direct lived experience are also outraged enough to join the street protests. That didn't happen in Rodney King or the major race riots in UK and USA 1960s and is something noteworthy and to be hopeful about.
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Protest in Copenhagen.

 
mariachi-19 said:
That's not terrorism surely? I mean, its not like there's a systematic history of such events being classed as terrorism around the globe...

Oh is it different because they're white and not muslim?
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I think the truck driver was just being an imbecile. He wanted to get through, but stopped when some guy didn't move out of the way, so fair to say he is not a terrorist.
 
We had people blocking a busy highway again in Tulsa. They were peacefully removed and around a thousand of them went downtown.

We are just one year short from the 100 year anniversary of the Greenwood/Black Wall Street riots for context, one of the worst single incidents of racial violence in US history. You might have seen it referenced in HBO’s The Watchmen.
 
George Owen said:
I think the truck driver was just being an imbecile. He wanted to get through, but stopped when some guy didn't move out of the way, so fair to say he is not a terrorist.
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It's been reported that the highway had been closed for an hour at this point. The implication being he was up to no good.
 
Wow - the Minneapolis police chief was just at the site of George Floyd's murder, spoke to CNN with Floyd's family via the CNN reporter, and said that police officer silence = complicity. That the other officers there were complicit in Floyd's death.
 
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Anybody remember the riots in England in 2011? Alot of that was a bunch of white people jumping on Mark Duggans death and looted London amongst other places pretty pointlessly.
 
Christ, I need to go to bed but can't escape this thread, only on page 34 :/
 
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