Protests following the killing of George Floyd

sammsky1 said:
What jury ratio has to agree for it to be charged as 1st degree murder? How the heck will they find a neutral jury for this???!!!
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Charges are decided by the prosecution prior to trial. I’m assuming though that you’re asking about the verdict...

In Minnesota the verdict has to be unanimous.

Jury selection is a process in which a large pool of jurors is summoned and then whirled down... the prosecution and defense both question them, and then a jury is selected after both sides have a say in vetting them out.
 
Carolina Red said:
In Minnesota the verdict has to be unanimous.

Jury selection is a process in which a pool of jurors is summoned, the prosecution and defense both question them, and then a jury is selected after both sides have a say in vetting them out.
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So defence will seek as many closet 'KKK' members as possible and prosecution will also seek closet educated 'AntiFa or BLM' advocates? What a mess.

I can't see how AG can do anything but ensure maximum sentence is delivered, else it really could tip over into a war.
 
sammsky1 said:
So defence will seek as many closet 'KKK' members as possible and prosecution will also seek closet educated 'AntiFa or BLM' advocates? What a mess.

I can't see how AG can do anything but ensure maximum sentence is delivered, else it really could tip over into a war.
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The hardcore people one way or another will be eliminated via peremptory challenges by both sides (granted these are limited, but there are enough to remove extremes).
 
sammsky1 said:
So defence will seek as many closet 'KKK' members as possible and prosecution will also seek closet educated 'AntiFa or BLM' advocates? What a mess.

I can't see how AG can do anything but ensure maximum sentence is delivered, else it really could tip over into a war.
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Interesting view of Minnesota law and the actions of the prosecutor.
Found it in the american cop thread. Found by @Adisa
 
Silva said:
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I think the first line of defence is the middle class. Comfortable enough lives to accept the status quo, while trying to stay out of any social problems, whom solution, might affect their livelihood.

Luckily, the new generations of kids/young people, are way more humane (and informed) than their parents.
 
Tucholsky said:


Interesting view of Minnesota law and the actions of the prosecutor.
Found it in the american cop thread. Found by @Adisa
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That opinion piece is a bit misleading here...

as well as something Minnesota calls third-degree murder, a crime punishable by up to 25 years but applicable only where someone unintentionally causes death by “reckless or wanton acts … without special regard to their effect on any particular person” — like shooting aimlessly into a crowd.
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First, the link to the paraphrase is taking to website that you need a login to access, but that paraphrase isn’t from the actual Minnesota law.

Second, here’s what Minnesota law (which is also linked in that excerpt above) actually says 3rd degree murder is...
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
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I mean... both the authors are a lawyer and a legal scholar, so I don’t understand the difference there.
 
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Stacks said:
Not necessarily that they dont care as there are many black Americans who dont condone violence. Would you say the violence is NECESSARY to force the government to reform the police and their practices as well as actually give them legit punishment and jail time or in other words, revoke their "get out of jail free card?" I feel the police feel too protected, are poorly trained and have low regard of life. There have been plenty of riots over the years and still and no change after. How effective is it?
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I found this list while doing some research on Tulsa earlier today;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_riots#United_States

America has had so many race riots in the last 300 years it needs to be grouped by periods in time.
This is the type of thing that isn't taught in schools. How many Americans are aware of even 10% of these riots?
Also don't forget that the original American police force was set up as 'Slave Patrol' - their police was birthed out of racism.
The entire country is the living embodiment of white supremacy, violence & inequality. You can't fight fairly with an enemy like that.

So to answer your question, is violence necessary? At this point, it looks like it - but it would need to be targeted & organised.
Maybe 100 years ago there could've been a better solution, such as black people spending money at black businesses exclusively - in 2020 that's just impossible. I do think there's merit in a long-term, sustained mass scale economic drought for a lot of companies, black people are big spenders & as we've seen with Covid, America cares more about money than even the health & safety of it's own citizens. But that's never going to happen now.

In terms of effectiveness, I would say it's better than doing nothing because America isn't going to provide equality to black people on its own accord, otherwise reparations would've already been issued.
I think there are many ideas about things that could be done, but I don't see the point in discussing hypothetical situations that involve massive investment from a corrupt government.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Americans aren’t anti-fascist because they didn’t invade Spain at the behest of Texaco? What the absolute hell?
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Lets see if I can explain better my argument...

Meaning they were concerned on gaining control, and their private companies were part of it and they were, among other things, protecting their big companies interests in Spain. Governments starting wars for private companies is not something new. UK did it during the heroine war against China. Netherlands did it constantly overseas. If ideology had anything to do with USA in WWII and that ideology would be antifa, overthrowing a fascist dictator would be more important than US private interests. But even without those private interests, US would prefer having a fascist dictator in Spain than a comunist simpatizer government that it was the one democratically elected before the fascism organized a coup d'etat with the help of Hitler, Mussolini and US private companies like Texaco that had to still have to be paid for the war effort.

Spain helped (pathetically though) Hitler sending troupes and was a small ally of the Axis. They had plenty of reasons to continue the advance and overthrown another fascist regime

Also, antifa movement are traditionally closer to socialism/comunism/anarchism than capitalism

I explain myself better?
 
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Silva said:
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In the event of Biden winning the 2020 election, it is important that people don't forgot that the system will remain broken. "Back to normal" is not good enough, and just because Biden isn't Trump shouldn't mean that George Floyd is forgotten.
 
Carolina Red said:
You’re being a bit too literal bud. The guy was just taking the piss out of Trump basically saying he’s pro-fascist
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mmm maybe you are right. just slightly grinded my gears a bit I guess
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
In the event of Biden winning the 2020 election, it is important that people don't forgot that the system will remain broken. "Back to normal" is not good enough, and just because Biden isn't Trump shouldn't mean that George Floyd is forgotten.
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Biden is a plaster on a big wound but it's better than Trump who is salt.
 
Carolina Red said:
That opinion piece is a bit misleading here...



First, the link to the paraphrase is taking to website that you need a login to access.

Second, here’s what Minnesota law (which is also linked in that excerpt above) actually says 3rd degree murder is...
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Can't judge on the legal expertise.
But as you probably know, what the law says and how it is interpreted by lawyers and judges is another thing. (Hello 2nd amendment).
Especially in a judicial system like the US that depends so much on precedent.

Just wanted to add it as another viewpoint on the legal consequences.....
 
4bars said:
Lets see if I can explain better my argument...

Meaning they were concerned on gaining control, and their private companies were part of it and they were, among other things, protecting their big companies interests in Spain. Governments starting wars for private companies is not something new. UK did it during the heroine war against China. Netherlands did it constantly overseas. If ideology had anything to do with USA in WWII and that ideology would be antifa, overthrowing a fascist dictator would be more important than US private interests. But even without those private interests, US would prefer having a fascist dictator in Spain than a comunist simpatizer government that it was the one democratically elected before the fascism organized a coup d'etat with the help of Hitler, Mussolini and US private companies like Texaco

Also, antifa movement are traditionally closer to socialism/comunism/anarchism than capitalism

I explain myself better?
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Dude... the tweet was literally just taking the piss out of Trump because the Axis Powers, our enemy in World War II, were fascists.
 
Tucholsky said:
Can't judge on the legal expertise.
But as you probably know, what the law says and how it is interpreted by lawyers and judges is another thing. (Hello 2nd amendment).
Especially in a judicial system like the US that depends so much on precedent.

Just wanted to add it as another viewpoint on the legal consequences.....
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Very true.
 
Carolina Red said:
Very true.
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Also, we'd have to see if the types of other third-degree charges and convictions within that state. i.e. is there precedence which can be used to aid in the conviction, especially as it relates to murder trials that the to-be announced appointed judge for this future case has experienced.
 
edcunited1878 said:
Also, we'd have to see if the types of other third-degree charges and convictions within that state. i.e. is there precedence which can be used to aid in the conviction, especially as it relates to murder trials that the to-be announced appointed judge for this future case has experienced.
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Indeed.

I’m really interested now in seeing if the body cam footage leads to a (I believe warranted) change in criminal charges
 
BobbyManc said:


Ireland apparently won their independence through peaceful protest, in what must be one of the worst takes possible on the protests on Twitter.
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That's simple untrue . Ireland is divided so it has never won independence and the Republic was formed out of a bitter war with the English
 
TheReligion said:
Yeah you're likely right. I don't think anyone wants to hear a different view right now which is fair enough given how emotionally involved some posters will be about all of this. I've been quite critical of the police, as others have noted, but it does feel that anyone who doesn't wish to go with the "pro-riot hate everything to do with the police" line simply gets abuse irrespective of the points they wish to make.
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Everyone is fecking charged up right now. I hate what the police have done and are doing but I feel for the hundreds who have posted anonymously of their disgust. Only one group can solve this and that is the police themselves. The will to do it has to be there and right now it's not. We need serious community police work in this country the same as people police like yourselves do. No armor, no guns, just a willingness to listen. Unfortunate for all that it won't happen here unless a sizable portion of the force is removed from duty. It's why I am on the side of the protesters and in some cities the rioters. I will support police in their lawful duties but they need to be held accountable for their actions and the abuse, physical assault and death has to stop. We have seen more then enough abuses of their oath to protect and serve and the demand for action or violence is well warranted.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
In the event of Biden winning the 2020 election, it is important that people don't forgot that the system will remain broken. "Back to normal" is not good enough, and just because Biden isn't Trump shouldn't mean that George Floyd is forgotten.
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Biden built the system to begin with. He fought for the crime bill, tougher sentencing and doubling of cops. He is probably the worst person imaginable to fix any of this.
 
Cloud7 said:
Yeah it genuinely astounds me when people try to paint the founding and history of America as anything even vaguely positive. For a country as relatively young as theirs, the amount of atrocities that have been committed is nothing short of mind blowing.
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It is mindblowing that the death and misery for people of color that this country was built on is treated like a fart at the dinner table.
 
Cloud7 said:
Yeah it genuinely astounds me when people try to paint the founding and history of America as anything even vaguely positive. For a country as relatively young as theirs, the amount of atrocities that have been committed is nothing short of mind blowing.
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vs the King of England? I'll take United States, thanks.
 
choiboyx012 said:
My buddy works there. Supposedly they had a permit for the first protests, and this one did not. There are curfews throughout socal and they’re surprisingly early (4pm). Doubt people will comply.
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Permits to protest... don’t need a permit to own a gun, but do need one to protest.

I’ll be damned.
 
Dumbstar said:
Obama had eight years at the top of the world. Eight fecking years. And what's he remembered for? Killing innocent Afghani children like a coward from his drones. Not to mention thousands of other deaths. Did white police officers feck up black people in America during his tenure? Too fecking right. Did Obama say anything then or after leaving the presidency, if his hands were tied at the time? Has he ever said anything to date? Obviously nothing substantial enough.

At least Trump shows his cards. Obama has hidden his cowardice and is still hiding. Just another white president of the USA with strange skin tone who got nothing done except kill foreigner children. Oh but he tried really hard with his bills and orated well and left some sound bites. In the meantime the development of American military style police force continued to grow stronger in their conviction. No oration on that from him or his missus.
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fecking hell man.
 
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