What does this entail exactly?Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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What does this entail exactly?Only if you forgive me for not caring what you are doing at the moment and refusing to be pigeon holed into your limited definition of either or.
Vodka, baileys, tears, and shame
Also you keep ignoring the fact that peaceful protests have been going on, and have been ignored (ironic) - so what exactly is your solution? @Mastadon
Check, check, check and check
Wow. Not even I got that Nazi reference re: sterility. It is not germane at all to the conversation as I wasn’t referencing ending any substantive part of the gene pool or eliminating races, I just don’t want your lunacy to propagate. I double down on this after reading your thoughts on racial relations.
Again I plead, please don’t offer any thoughts on racial relations or the current state of affairs in this country if you really don’t know what the feck you are talking about. You are approaching Striker10 in absurdity.
Nope, not forgiven.
This is an either or. @villain is way more eloquent and informed than me, so read those posts. By focusing on the looting and vandalism you do a disservice. For the reality is that the root cause of ALL of this is a mountain compared to the grain of sand the looting is.
Edit: crap, hit send way early
What exactly is so perverse with my thoughts on racial relations that I should cease expressing them? Why don’t you elucidate your problem with my position so we can assess whether you are misrepresenting me?
How about going on strike? That normally works in Europe when they get tired of burning and breaking stuff. When you down tools and bring the economy down that tends to get their attention.
Violent protests have been ongoing as well do you think they are working to bring about the necessary change? Or is the violence moving the spotlight away from the real issue?
Who is going to strike where? And how is that any different to a protest? People still need to work in order to pay their bills - they will be made homeless before they bring the economy down in America.
Side note: When was the last European strike that brought down the economy?
Yes violent protests are going to get attention in the same way a strike will - they are not the most desirable option - but how exactly do you reconcile 400 years worth of anger, oppression & abuse? You can't.
Especially when they don't want to pay black people reparations, they don't want to invest in the communities, and they don't want to repair the school-jail pipeline that they created.
America has stolen more than than what looters can steal, destroyed more than the arsonists can burn and yet it continues to kill, take and not restore the communities it has broken.
So yeah, I don't care about the violent protests. People are allowed to be angry when the system continues to fail them - the violence is a part of the real issue, America was built and created out of violence - they can't suddenly claim to be the land of peace and harmony now.
The problem is everyone understands that black people are subject to racism, yet nobody wants to have the uncomfortable conversation of what it would take to fix this - instead they expect us to continue to experience racism, and accept the gestures and solidarity.
The fact you believe things are so much better, for one, is laughable on its face. Secondly, to not understand that the ferocity of the protests are a result of the poor situation in which POCs find themselves smacks of ignorance or worse.
I highly doubt this will evoke a rational discourse with you; I fully expect a strawman argument in response or a similar shifting of point.
I post on an nfl teams forum as well and im fighting a losing battle over there trying to say this young kid committed murder.
Literally just been told he hasnt even committed a crime
Literally just been told he hasnt even committed a crime
I wouldn't even bother. Those kinds of people believe he is a true patriot for traveling over there to defend his country.
Most if not all countries are built and created out of violence that is not a reason to continue with violence. If you don’t care about the violence well that is your choice. Many others do. Perhaps if you owned a shop that you spent your whole life to build up and it was burned and looted and you lost everything you might change your mind.
You raise some good points here I would like to respond to tomorrow as it’s pretty late where I am. I’m interested as to what you think it would take to fix the race relations re the conversation that needs to take place but is being ignored.
I support BLM and the right to protest for equal rights because this is a personal struggle for me as well in my own life so it’s a matter of solidarity with other oppressed minorities. My main contention is on the looting and destruction caused to innocent people. None of this should detract from the main struggle for equal rights but the reality is that it does harden peoples attitudes.
The unfortunate thing is that this scrote could walk free with the help of some decent lawyers. I am not sure what, if any, WI laws cover ‘stand your ground’ or self defense, but it seems a defense that might work. Not sure how the interstate gun laws might come into play. It’s a shame that the interstate laws might be the only foundational aspect of the crime that might result in a just sentence.
Update: I pregamed well enough to avoid the game. #winning, #weareallfecked
Just seen this video. He's going to get of on self defense isnt he
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First of all it’s a fact not a belief that things are so much better now than they were during the era of Rosa Parks. How is this even a point of contention?
Secondly, I have stated that I understand that the protests are a result of police brutality. I also clearly and unequivocally stated that I support BLM.
You obviously have no interest in understanding my POV. You have no intention of engaging in a rational discourse as you have been insulting me from the very beginning while telling me not to procreate so you’re not taking the high ground here. If the only thing you can contribute is ad hominems how can you expect anyone to respect you or engage with you in a meaningful way? Why should I treat you with respect when you insult me?
You are in no position to accuse me of making strawman arguments or shifting of point when you haven’t made any arguments or points worth discussing.
Everything the right have been barking on twitter are based off those short video clips circulating around social media. I expect the prosecutors to have access to much more evidence than that, and tbh, if he does get off, I blame them for overcharging like they did in the Trayvon Martin case. First degree murder needs to prove intent, and I hope they have more than just the fact that he brought an AR over there.
There goes that whataboutism again. Most countries were built out of tribal & cultural wars. America was specifically created out of the genocide of indigenous people - then built off slavery. It is not comparable. The horrors of black american slavery is not comparable, to other forms (not that anyone should be comparing any type of slavery) - this was a particular evil that my words would not do any justice. When I visited the slave dungeons in Ghana last December, that experience alone was horrifying, and that was just the first step of slavery. And that's just talking about the physical effects - nobody talks about the psychological, mental effects, or societal effects that it's legacy has left on black people globally.
If I owned a shop, yes i'd be upset that it got destroyed - but it's not more important than human lives. Also most of the looting occurred to the big shops - weren't you referring to Nike & LV earlier in the thread? I'm sure they have either insurance or capital to rebuild.
I haven't seen any post from you about BLM specifically, only to criticise the looters - so i'm not sure why you think it's up to me to tell you what I think about fixing the race relations. What are you doing to actively support BLM?
They'll still do him on unlawful possession of a firearm and transporting said weapon across state lines.
Ive seen, albeit online, thats is only a class a misdemeanor
The reply section is such a cesspool. They are now trying to state that the scrote didn’t shoot anyone before the street scene, completely gaslighting the fact that he murdered someone just minutes earlier.
The guy he shot wasn't armed as far as I know.
There's a longer thread on the whole incident here.
I’m not insulting you, I’m just making light of your dubious intelligence on the matter. I posit that things aren’t that much better, perhaps only superficially. The fact that you bring up that there was a black president & that speaks for the advancement only shows your shallowness on the matter. I just don’t want your flawed logic to continue, that’s why I made the procreation statement. And, to levy criticism on someone stating that they are shifting the goal posts only heightens your ignorance. It’s more simple to try to back-engineer a defense after being called out on a position. No worries, though, it’s obvious with whom I am arguing.
Also this Coudery bloke doesn't seem all that trustworthy as a source
No, a quick check of his Twitter page somewhat disqualifies him as a credible source. I love the ‘first aid bag’ non sequitur tossed in for absolution. No quaint first aid kit is gonna help someone he shot point blank in the head.
Protect & serve
a few bad apples
etc
What will be interesting is when the studies of how aligned the police are with the proud boys / bugaloo boys / right wing militias come out. It’s patently obvious now how intertwined they are.
A solid bet - right now Joe Arpaio is masturbating with gleeful intensity while watching this clip on a continual loop.
edit - apparently this clip is from 2018, but it is no less shameful & fully encapsulates the mindset of most policw.
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Post #7767. My position was correct.
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Well in America specifically they began as slave patrols & they've always been aligned with right wing militias, especially after slavery was abolished. They became a way to continue to catch & enslave black people, and get them to work for free, or kill black people with little/no punishment. Nothing has changed, and yet people wonder why black people are angry & restless.
Arpaio was born just a few years too late. He would have rejoiced being in such patrols.
Just a continuation of the new jim crow
Continuation of the new jim crow.
Longer version.....even worse.
Continuation of the new jim crow.
Longer version.....even worse.
Incel wears more eyeliner than his mom (picture of him in his cute little youth SS gear & his proud momma a little ways down the replies).
Oooof. I was wondering how he got out of the house with a rifle. Seems he got a ride with mom.
Would love to see her get charged & arrested also. Wonder what the Illinois / Wisconsin laws are for a parent of a murdering youth who obtains a weapon illegally?
Based on how WI people feel about IL people I am going to assume she's up for the chair.
Why I never...
I'm not sure this tone helps, except if you're sure @Mastadon is discussing in bad faith.
In any case, I agree that @Mastadon seems to severely underestimate the current situation of Black people in the US. Yes, things have improved since the 1950s, but while that's good (obviously), they are still nowhere near where they should be. Consequently, Black people have no reason to be complacent, let alone grateful (I know that wasn't said, but just to be clear), and plenty to be frustrated and angry about.
One example: redlining and housing laws mean that Black people for the longest time could not move out of their areas and could not get mortgages. As a result, many of them lived, and still live, in impoverished neighbourhoods without the means to do something about it. (Since they don't own the houses and can't build up wealth.) Further, since schools are paid through local taxes and people are poor in these areas, education is poor. Effectively, this creates a poverty loop.
Under Obama, finally a law was introduced that was supposed to create more social diversity in housing and thus help people stuck in these situations. That was nice, but came decades after the 50s/60s, when these previous practices became illegal and remedying measures should have been taken. Further, this law was annulled by Trump just a few weeks ago. To add insult to injury, the motivation was clearly racist: his comments that he would protect suburban home owners from increased criminality and property devaluation is obvious (to everyone in the US) code for 'keeping blacks out of white neighbourhoods'.
In that environment, protests have accomplished nothing. So it's understandable that the frustration and anger boil over - and do so increasingly while police brutality continues and the federal leadership becomes noticeably more racist. I don't think anyone here on Redcafe is saying that riots and looting are good ways to get your point across; but given the above, I think it makes sense that most people here understand why Black people are now responding to yet another blatant and murderous injustice in this way. (Ignoring even the proven role of agents provocateurs from the right in these events.)
TL;DR: the idea of a moral equivalency between the violent protestors and these vigilantes is simply untenable. (To which it should also be added that violence is relatively uncommon; BLM protests have been ongoing for months now across the US, and how often have you heard about riots?)