Protests following the killing of George Floyd

George Owen said:
You should read this:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/III/48

Any decent prosecutor will get the conviction. The psyco kid will go to jail for a long time.
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I wouldn't say it's clear-cut, but if he was the instigator (pointing his gun at people or making verbal threats) then that significantly weakens any self-defense claim.

The law does permit the use of lethal force, if you believe you're in danger of great bodily harm or death, and if you have exhausted all other options to avoid it. Given that someone fired a warning shot, a reasonable claim can be made that he thought the first victim, who was running after him, was the one who fired the shot, thus there's room to claim he thought he was going to die

The second incident, where he killed one and injured another, he had several people bearing down on him (one kicked him, another hit him with a skateboard, while a third had a handgun), so again room to claim he was fearing for his life.

It sickens me that this little fascist shit even has a chance to snake out of this, because I'm convinced he was hoping to get to shoot someone.
 
calodo2003 said:
Would love to see her get charged & arrested also. Wonder what the Illinois / Wisconsin laws are for a parent of a murdering youth who obtains a weapon illegally?
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We can hope that the law and order president punishes these criminals to the full extent of the law.
 
hobbers said:
See, it actually isn't untenable. You can't shrug off violent riots/looting/arson (carried out by diverse groups I might add, both in terms of wealth and skin colour) and say it's morally superior to business owners or home owners trying to protect their property. Because it simply isn't. Regardless of what started the protests, regardless of endemic racism, regardless of the background of the rioters, regardless of whether there are proud boys or boogaloos mixed in with the people just trying to protect their properties.
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Yeah, so when an argument has to be qualified with that many regardless..es(?) it’s like a shit argument.

Just checked, it is.
 
hobbers on video showing white guy chasing black people with a sword said:
Looks like the guy who was originally chased with the sword (who reddit called the skateboarding black kid) is the one who inflicted the worst damage. Hitting him repeatedly over the head with his skateboard. Vile little runt.

Don't know the preceding events obviously but he was having rocks thrown at him and rounded on by at least 3 guys before he went on that wild charge. Probably lost his mind to fear.
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hobbers on video of black youths beating up white couple killing zero said:
That store owner getting beaten to death with boots, rocks and planks... what sub human scum they are. Sort of thing you'd expect to see in an ISIS promo video.
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hobbers on white kid with semi-automatic rifle in the street shooting BLM protester in the head then one in the leg then one in the abdomen killing 2 said:
Dunno about the first shooting, which is what I assume he's been arrested for. But the second and third are pretty clearly self defence arent they?
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hobbers on black man in car being shot at by police said:
Would probably have not spent a full minute encouraging the cops to keep shooting tear gas at his pregnant girlfriend.
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hobbers on video of black man being aggressively removed from vehicle said:
Well we don't know if he was compliant with police from before he started recording but I doubt it.

The bottom line though is that, the officer saying stupid aggressive things aside, because of his behaviour that guy was always going to have to be physically removed from the car and doing so was justified. And that would have happened exactly the same had he been white.
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hobbers view on black rights organisation said:
Before now the only things I associated BLM UK with were blocking ambulances on motorways and shutting down student libraries.

And the 'mass protests amid a pandemic for a virus that hits black people the hardest' strategy isn't doing much to change my general view of their approach to things.
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hobbers' first response to George Floyd protesters outside Whitehouse said:
Rise of the neckbeards.
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hobbers on the potential racial element to a Trump tweet said:
Certainly not anywhere other than America.

Although I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Trump call mostly white antifa rioters thugs multiple times. And as has been said Obama referred to both rioters and terrorists as thugs.
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Audit complete. No comments to add.
 
Striker10 said:
Amercia is owned and controlled. That's what debt does. But the ones talking about systemic racism are marxists and that's the problem in many parts. You cannot have these ideologies in a healthy nation. So America is in trouble. It goes beyond politics. They pull down statues, not because of any other reason then they are marxists but they are very tricky with language. This floyd stuff, has been ridden hard by these people. It's one thing to think a certain way, it's another not only to do what they've done but for it to be allowed.....during a pandemic. With them science folk saying...they not spreading anything......of course they ain't (while you accuse churches oh and cash is very bad...) . But they used one perceived form of racism and enacted their agenda using another. In English, they're created this narrative that cops are racist. So much so that people might make that assumption. And once it happened, the marxists infiltrated and used what happened for their own selfish ends. And they're evil. But people don't get, you cannot eradicate racism because it's the marxists that use it. It is a political tool. They are behind it. They want you to talk about it because people are too stupid to understand where racism comes from. That's why it's folly to think you can solve racism by thinking it's legitimate. Evil is the root and that's what it is and people should call it evil because it cannot bring any kind of peace. If they wanted to cure racism? They'd stop talking about it. It really is that simple.
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calodo2003 said:
The reply section is such a cesspool. They are now trying to state that the scrote didn’t shoot anyone before the street scene, completely gaslighting the fact that he murdered someone just minutes earlier.
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Isnt this the first shooting?

He then runs away from this, falls over and shoots the other 2 guys, killing one and almost taking the arm of another.

Is there a 3rd killing?
 
Mastadon said:
Can we really say that nothing has changed? From Rosa Parks to Obama is a pretty big leap and things have definitely improved.

My own opinion is that acts of random looting are counter productive to the movement and gives ammunition to those on the other side. Instead of focusing on George Floyd and police brutality you now have a balancing act of criminal destruction caused by looters.
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Yes we can say that nothing has changed, when people legitimately have the same major issues. People are still widely victim of police brutality, they are still denied basic amenities depending on the demographic of their community, they are still stigmatized. And Obama "the muslim", the US senator who was repeatadly asked to prove that he was american isn't exactly an example that I would use.

And I haven't addressed it before but acts of looting aren't part of the movement, you don't know who are the looters and for what its worth the other side as you call it has been part of it, Umbrella man being an iconic example.
 
TheGame said:
How can anyone at Fox News allow this?

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There is a rising sentiment in many states that the government needs to address the riots.

The longer it goes on the more the public will take their own actions and it will get worse.

But on the flip side aggressively dealing with the rioters will potentially be counter productive.
 
fergieisold said:
Such a shame that the original and well meaning message that Black Lives Matter is being destroyed by career protestors with seemingly no real life experience.
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Only people who didn’t understand, agree with, or support ‘the original message’ of black lives matter think this way

side note: what do you understand that message to be?
 
villain said:
Only people who didn’t understand, agree with, or support ‘the original message’ of black lives matter think this way

side note: what do you understand that message to be?
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Completely disagree. You can support the idea that black lives matter as much as every other life (the key point the whole 'white lives matter' people don't understand).

BLM (the political group) seem to be a group of privileged kids with nothing better to do protesting about privilege.
 
fergieisold said:
Completely disagree. You can support the idea that black lives matter as much as every other life (the key point the whole 'white lives matter' people don't understand).

BLM (the political group) seem to be a group of privileged kids with nothing better to do protesting about privilege.
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Firstly - anyone who doesn't support the notion that black lives matter equally as any other life is not only ignorant, but racist too.

However, before I answer I pose these to you:
  • Define 'the political group' of BLM with citations.
  • Define 'privileged kids'
  • Define privilege in the context you've provided.
 
villain said:
Firstly - anyone who doesn't support the notion that black lives matter equally as any other life is not only ignorant, but racist too.

However, before I answer I pose these to you:
  • Define 'the political group' of BLM with citations.
  • Define 'privileged kids'
  • Define privilege in the context you've provided.
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I haven't got the time to right a well cited essay but BLM are too left wing for me. And the context was from the video with the guy in the truck. The privilege is having no idea what it's like to work hard for a living and have your business burned down. All they did was shout a load of nonsense at him and then claim they'd burn his business down too. That's completely unacceptable in my eyes.

How anybody doesn't see black lives are as equal as everybody else is crazy to me, it's been painful the whole white lives matter crap.
 
fergieisold said:
I haven't got the time to right a well cited essay but BLM are too left wing for me. And the context was from the video with the guy in the truck. The privilege is having no idea what it's like to work hard for a living and have your business burned down. All they did was shout a load of nonsense at him and then claim they'd burn his business down too. That's completely unacceptable in my eyes.

How anybody doesn't see black lives are as equal as everybody else is crazy to me, it's been painful the whole white lives matter crap.
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Ok if that's your entire understanding of BLM, then it makes sense to me why you have no understanding of what BLM is actually about.
 


I will put it here once again and people should listen carefully and understand what is said. Violence isn't good or a solution but it is understandable.
 
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JPRouve said:


I will put it here once again and people should listen careful and understand what is said. Violence isn't good or a solution but it is understandable.
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King really was such a inspirational and measured speaker.

Full speech

 
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JPRouve said:


I will put it here once again and people should listen carefully and understand what is said. Violence isn't good or a solution but it is understandable.
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The first one minute of the speech is exactly what I’ve been saying over the last few pages. Violence is counter productive and detrimental to the objectives of BLM even if it is understandable. That’s talking about riots even not the mindless thugs who are out to rob and steal.
 
Mastadon said:
The first one minute of the speech is exactly what I’ve been saying over the last few pages. Violence is counter productive and detrimental to the objectives of BLM even if it is understandable. That’s talking about riots even not the mindless thugs who are out to rob and steal.
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Unfortunately there is more than one minute and that's the point that people have tried to tell you. And by the way, that man was assassinated.
 
psychdelicblues said:
Just a continuation of the new jim crow

Continuation of the new jim crow.
Longer version.....even worse.

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I have been looking into this, apparently these were comments made a few years ago after some instances of shoplifting.... yes he wanted to stop shoplifters breeding and wanted to warehouse them....
 
JPRouve said:
Unfortunately there is more than one minute and that's the point that people have tried to tell you. And by the way, that man was assassinated.
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I never disputed the fact that riots were a result of social conditions none of which detracts from the message of the first minute. Anyway keep on rioting and we will see if the ends justify the means.
 
fergieisold said:
I support the message...but not the burning of innocent peoples businesses or their political leanings. I don't think that's too controversial.
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Innocent people having their businesses burnt to the ground and livelihoods lost does not matter to these folk. Enjoy your ride trying to convince them otherwise.
 
fergieisold said:
I just think you don't need to align with everything BLM does to fight racism. They are a group with common sense aims when it comes to racial equality, but when you dig deeper they are anti capitalist, have supported


I support the message...but not the burning of innocent peoples businesses or their political leanings. I don't think that's too controversial.
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You keep saying these things without citing any sources.
BLM is not a homogenous group. It's just people who are not racist, fighting for racial equality. If you say you support BLM, then guess what? You're also part of this group.
In any group of individuals you will find people with differing, opposing & extreme views - those people are not representative of the entire group.
Unless what you're suggesting is people who are fighting for racial equality are also anti-capitalist. You see how ridiculous that sounds?

Secondly - you keep bringing politics in to it, which further shows your lack of understanding. To believe BLM is political, is to believe that racism is political - and therefore anyone who doesn't support BLM (which, in your words is 'too left leaning') is not only Right leaning, but also racist. Another ridiculous statement which I hope you can understand.

Once again, I leave you with this:
  • Define what the message of BLM is
  • What is the political leaning of BLM, with citations
 
villain said:
There goes that whataboutism again. Most countries were built out of tribal & cultural wars. America was specifically created out of the genocide of indigenous people - then built off slavery. It is not comparable. The horrors of black american slavery is not comparable, to other forms (not that anyone should be comparing any type of slavery) - this was a particular evil that my words would not do any justice. When I visited the slave dungeons in Ghana last December, that experience alone was horrifying, and that was just the first step of slavery. And that's just talking about the physical effects - nobody talks about the psychological, mental effects, or societal effects that it's legacy has left on black people globally.

If I owned a shop, yes i'd be upset that it got destroyed - but it's not more important than human lives. Also most of the looting occurred to the big shops - weren't you referring to Nike & LV earlier in the thread? I'm sure they have either insurance or capital to rebuild.

I haven't seen any post from you about BLM specifically, only to criticise the looters - so i'm not sure why you think it's up to me to tell you what I think about fixing the race relations. What are you doing to actively support BLM?
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I'm looking forward to your response to this. @Mastadon
 
Mastadon said:
I never disputed the fact that riots were a result of social conditions none of which detracts from the message of the first minute. Anyway keep on rioting and we will see if the ends justify the means.
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You have, you have essentially denied the fact that after decades of peaceful protests some people may show anger, you have also ignored that part in MLK's speech which is telling, your answer to @calodo2003 a few pages ago also saw you reduce these protests to burning and looting, you went as far as generalizing an entire country/community, you seemingly don't care about the fact that people have and still are trying to debate and discuss but that decision makers don't care, have never cared and will most likely never care.

Now, can you answer that question that I asked you yesterday because your reply never addressed it?
JPRouve said:
And what would you do if after almost a century of mainly peacefully protesting, nothing changed and you were still denied the benefit of the rules of law?
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Mastadon said:
I never disputed the fact that riots were a result of social conditions none of which detracts from the message of the first minute. Anyway keep on rioting and we will see if the ends justify the means.
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Do you pigeonhole the police for the actions of bad apples also? Or do you generalise about your average white male based on the actions of a few? Do you not understand that the people 'rioting' are a subset and not actually representative?

Because if you do and are as adamant about it just say so and save posters wasting their valuable time trying to debate with you...

You and others that keep generalising about BLM (a global movement consisting of multiple individuals and subgroups with different opinions and agendas) while being corrected at every opportunity come across in the weirdest way to people like me. Distinct lack of empathy, understanding and willingness to see anything outside of your point of view. Closet racist? Anti the movement and what it stands for but unwillingly to disclose that? Bitterness? Stubborn and argumentative for the heck of it? Contrarian? I don't know but it's not a good look...

I mean who actually wants to be debating the angle you've chosen, like wants to and keeps coming back to? Baffling...
 
villain said:
There goes that whataboutism again. Most countries were built out of tribal & cultural wars. America was specifically created out of the genocide of indigenous people - then built off slavery. It is not comparable. The horrors of black american slavery is not comparable, to other forms (not that anyone should be comparing any type of slavery) - this was a particular evil that my words would not do any justice. When I visited the slave dungeons in Ghana last December, that experience alone was horrifying, and that was just the first step of slavery. And that's just talking about the physical effects - nobody talks about the psychological, mental effects, or societal effects that it's legacy has left on black people globally.

If I owned a shop, yes i'd be upset that it got destroyed - but it's not more important than human lives. Also most of the looting occurred to the big shops - weren't you referring to Nike & LV earlier in the thread? I'm sure they have either insurance or capital to rebuild.

I haven't seen any post from you about BLM specifically, only to criticise the looters - so i'm not sure why you think it's up to me to tell you what I think about fixing the race relations. What are you doing to actively support BLM?
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Slavery was an evil that was rightfully abolished and it is part of history now. Nobody today is a slave or has a living relative who was a slave and the people who enslaved black people are long gone. If you were to ask for reparations who would they pay them to? The Nazis killed 6 million Jews in horrific circumstances and they paid reparations to the survivors for the suffering they endured because there were survivors. Slavery ended 150 years ago I can't begin to understand the psychological strain that must have on the people but I think white people paid a blood price for it in the American Civil War where many white boys were killed and maimed to free black people.

I speak out for BLM where I can. Most people I've spoken to around this region consider BLM to be thugs and criminals. Whatever sympathy there was for black people after the George Floyd incident disappeared with the daily news of looting and burning and destruction. People are shocked by the actions of the rioters and they care for public order too much to understand why these acts of destruction are in any way justified. I would point out the difference between those who are seeking justice and equal rights and the mindless thugs who loot and burn but it seems that there is a lot of support for these thugs so maybe I'm wrong. I'm not even going to address your absurd post about big shops being looted but its no big deal because they have insurance. Looting is the criminal act of a thug that should be condemned by any right thinking person.

MLK condemned the riots and condemned the social conditions which created them I agree with that. You on the other hand seem only capable of doing the latter.
 
afrocentricity said:
Do you pigeonhole the police for the actions of bad apples also? Or do you generalise about your average white male based on the actions of a few? Do you not understand that the people 'rioting' are a subset and not actually representative?

Because if you do and are as adamant about it just say so and save posters wasting their valuable time trying to debate with you...

You and others that keep generalising about BLM (a global movement consisting of multiple individuals and subgroups with different opinions and agendas) while being corrected at every opportunity come across in the weirdest way to people like me. Distinct lack of empathy, understanding and willingness to see anything outside of your point of view. Closet racist? Anti the movement and what it stands for but unwillingly to disclose that? Bitterness? Stubborn and argumentative for the heck of it? Contrarian? I don't know but it's not a good look...

I mean who actually wants to be debating the angle you've chosen, like wants to and keeps coming back to? Baffling...
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I don't think you've actually read my posts to be coming up with that conclusion. Can you show me where I said that the people rioting are representative of the majority, or even insinuated it. Ive got enough people to talk to and from your tone I feel that talking to you would be a waste of time because you're just here to condemn me without understanding my POV.
 
It's funny how people get so up in arms about innocent business owners having their stuff destroyed, when innocent minorities have their lives ruined on a daily basis. Neither things are good, but I don't remember all of the people up in arms about the former speaking so loudly about the latter?
 
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