Philippe Coutinho

[Jaybomb]

I'd have him at United.

Will laugh my tits off if he leaves Liverpool. It'd nicely break up their plans

They won't win anything with him anyway. He's been there for 5 years now and has won feck all.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I dunno, maybe because he was teenager finding his feet, you know, young prospect? thats like comparing 19 year old Harry Kane to 23 year old Kane. If you think Coutinho now is the same player as in 2008 then I cry for you.

I'm crying for you. For you are making up truly desperate excuses to not admit to the fact Coutinho is simply not anywhere near Kaka and wouldn't be some sort of mini god in the Serie A. Serie A 'mini godry' is the preserve of consistent, tactically intelligent players. Not players who take a regular 3-4 month holiday every season after a few wonder goals ...

 

[Mindhunter]

Has Mr. Ernesto called explaining how he will fit into his plans and eventually be made club captain? Should have been training alone by now.

 

[Klopper76]

They won't win anything with him anyway. He's been there for 5 years now and has won feck all.

So it's Coutinho's fault that Liverpool haven't won anything since 2012? None of the managers or other players are to blame, but Coutinho is...

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

For Coutinho its simple: At Barca he'd have to step up his consistency, his end product and have to carry the burden of a huge price tag and expectation, whilst not being a guaranteed starter since there is proper competition for Iniesta place from Iniesta himself, Suarez, Rafinha and the now back in midfield Sergi Roberto.

 

[Jaybomb]

So it's Coutinho's fault that Liverpool haven't won anything since 2012? None of the managers or other players are to blame, but Coutinho is...

Not what I'm saying. I'm just saying they won't win anything with or without him.

But now that you put it that way, he does play week in, week out. He holds some responsibility. Where was he in the Europa League final for example? Where was his brilliance against City in the League Cup final? Pogba stepped up in the final. Ibra stepped up in the final. That's what separates the world class players from the rest.

 

[Halds]

Not what I'm saying. I'm just saying they won't win anything with or without him.

But now that you put it that way, he does play week in, week out. He holds some responsibility. Where was he in the Europa League final for example? Where was his brilliance against City in the League Cup final? Pogba stepped up in the final. Ibra stepped up in the final. That's what separates the world class players from the rest.

Being below par all year, and then step up in a final in a secondary cup.. Yep, truly world class players who does that..

 

[Stacks]

I'm crying for you. For you are making up truly desperate excuses to not admit to the fact Coutinho is simply not anywhere near Kaka and wouldn't be some sort of mini god in the Serie A. Serie A 'mini godry' is the preserve of consistent, tactically intelligent players. Not players who take a regular 3-4 month holiday every season after a few wonder goals ...

I haven't made any excuses for this point once. Saying xyz would be like abc, is merely Hyberbole. If you asked me, was Kaka better than Coutinho, I would ask "is this a rhetorical question?" I do still believe that the current Coutinho would tear Serie A a new one as have many an inferior player in recent seasons. When people suggest Coutinho is inconsistent, please tell me what part of his game is inconsistent? In the last 3 seasons, he has created more chances per 90 minutes than even Pogba (including while at Juve for the last 2 seasons). You say his inconsistent because you expect him to consistently score worldies but that isn't realistic of any player

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Being below par all year, and then step up in a final in a secondary cup.. Yep, truly world class players who does that..

That's pretty much what you want, but I don't think you can say Zlatan was below par, and Pogba was in a settling in period, so yeah, I'd say that stepping it up for the big games is what makes you world class, as opposed to going missing in them.

 

[Jaybomb]

Being below par all year, and then step up in a final in a secondary cup.. Yep, truly world class players who does that..

Except neither were "below par" as much as you want to believe it.

Winning us trophies is exactly what we bought them for.

Or are these trophies only "secondary" when Liverpools not in the final of them? Cause I remember yous treating the League Cup and Europa League as a pretty big deal last year. Fans hanging off poles and balconies, the whole shebang. Sturridge even cried when he lost the League Cup... Funny that.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I haven't made any excuses for this point once. Saying xyz would be like abc, is merely Hyberbole. If you asked me, was Kaka better than Coutinho, I would ask "is this a rhetorical question?" I do still believe that the current Coutinho would tear Serie A a new one as have many an inferior player in recent seasons. When people suggest Coutinho is inconsistent, please tell me what part of his game is inconsistent? In the last 3 seasons, he has created more chances per 90 minutes than even Pogba (including while at Juve for the last 2 seasons). You say his inconsistent because you expect him to consistently score worldies but that isn't realistic of any player

I could care less about his worldies. I care even less that he a 10 creates more per 90 minutes than a center midfield 8 like Pogba because that is his job.
I say his inconsistent because he regularly takes 3-4months holidays every season from his best form. If you are going to sit their and pretend for example that him coming back from injury and spending 3 months refinding himself didn't happen last season, we really have no more to discuss because you are just plain blinkered. The simple fact is if Coutinho was consistent he'd be unanimously considered better than Hazard, Silva and Alexis. For he possess more facets of skill weapons than them at his best. The fact he isn't should tell you something. For even last season at Pool both Lallana and Mane before injury halted him were all consistent compared to Coutinho.

 

[PickledRed]

Too many trying to win the internet in here. Ruining a discussion about a brilliant talent.

 

[Halds]

Except neither were "below par" as much as you want to believe it.

Winning us trophies is exactly what we bought them for.

Or are these trophies only "secondary" when Liverpools not in the final of them? Cause I remember yous treating the League Cup and Europa League as a pretty big deal last year. Fans hanging off poles and balconies, the whole shebang. Sturridge even cried when he lost the League Cup... Funny that.

Yes they are secondary trophies.. Doesn't mean, that it's not nice to win them. But i would expect a little more from a player to be called world class, like performing consistently in the league, and not just in the smaller cups facing inferior sides.. And as much as you want to believe it, neither of Pogba and Ibrahimovich did that.. And neither did Coutinho by the way.

 

[Redcy]

Sorry exactly what are you expecting of Pogba? More assists, seems unfair to judge him on someone else finishing, yet when we look at chances he is about .5 per game behind coutinho. His interceptions are twice that of Coutinho, key passes, pass completion, take ons, etc are all v similar, his duels are 50% higher. so bar goals (his shot accuracy was about the same though), and assists he is about the same as Coutinho but has better defensive stats. However you could of course rely on your own "evidence" like most opposition fans rather than actual stats. He is generally one of the most consistent players, he had the odd poor game, against Liverpool for example, and everyone wants to judge him on those exceptions and ignore his good stand outs.

 

[Halds]

Look.. I have no problem with Pogba. He is obviously a good player with a lot of potential. Same with Coutinho.

And all I am arguing against.. Is the idea, that Coutinho is nothing special, as opposed to Pogba being 'world class', because you won the League Cup and the Europa League.

 

[NoPace]

I like the player but unconvinced he would be a good fit. Traditionally speaking, he plays really as a left winger or in the Iniesta role but both spots are occupied. Even as an heir to Iniesta, I don't believe he possesses the sort of game to play that role similarly - he's more of an attacker than a player who controls tempo and directs play.

Still, under Valverde not sure how he might best use a player like Coutinho when there is already a number of decisions to be made concerning how to use Rafinha, Denis, Iniesta, Roberto, Sergio, Gomes, Rakitic, Arda, Mascherano, Samper & Aleñá

Before season stat, I expect there to be a lot of changes in midfield. By comparison, Pep used to have a squad with 5 midfielders + 1-2 youth mids

You could play 4-2-2-2 or 4-2-3-1 I guess. Maybe sell Rakitic or Andre Gomes and buy a star to pair with Busquets like Verrati or let's say Weigl, and a proper RB with pace, let's say Semedo:

---------Suarez-----
Neymar-Coutinho-Messi-----
-----Weigl-Busquets-----
Alba--------------Semedo
---Mascherano-Pique---
-------Ter Stegen--------

I could see that team being great. Or with Neymar pushed up and a 4-2-2-2 with Coutinho a bit more left. Maybe more boring like when Spain played with Alonso and Busquets together, but defensively rock solid by virtue of possession. Fullbacks license to go create and give you with.

 

[TheReligion]

Yes they are secondary trophies.. Doesn't mean, that it's not nice to win them. But i would expect a little more from a player to be called world class, like performing consistently in the league, and not just in the smaller cups facing inferior sides.. And as much as you want to believe it, neither of Pogba and Ibrahimovich did that.. And neither did Coutinho by the way.

Zlatan scored the winner in the League Cup final and Pogba scored in the Europa League final which United also went on to win.

The poster was pointing out Coutinho disappeared in both of those finals last season.

Not sure what's to argue about really. It's fact.

 

[Mindhunter]

Zlatan scored the winner in the League Cup final and Pogba scored in the Europa League final which United also went on to win.

The poster was pointing out Coutinho disappeared in both of those finals last season.

Not sure what's to argue about really. It's fact.

That's the only shiny toy they have and we are expecting them to admit that their shiny toy didn't work when they wanted it the most. Not gonna happen.

 

[Klopper76]

Why is Coutinho scoring in the 2016 League Cup final considered disappearing?

 

[nyanza]

Why is Coutinho scoring in the 2016 League Cup final considered disappearing?

And he won the asian premier league too!!

 

[TheReligion]

Why is Coutinho scoring in the 2016 League Cup final considered disappearing?

As he picked up a losers medal

 

[Maradona10]

Sport say barca negotiators are in England to get Coutinho. Liverpool have asked for 100 million euros.
I like coutinho but he isnt worth that much, may be 60-70 million euros at max. But Barca need to make neymar happy and this is one way of doing it, buying him a friend.

 

[DannyDee]

Sport say barca negotiators are in England to get Coutinho. Liverpool have asked for 100 million euros.
I like coutinho but he isnt worth that much, may be 60-70 million euros at max. But Barca need to make neymar happy and this is one way of doing it, buying him a friend.

At this point, I don't even know what is fair in the current marketplace, especially when English teams are involved in the transaction. We just saw a Leftback go for 52 million pounds and good young goalies with potential (but not world class) go for 30 million pounds.

Look at what Everton are paying for good but not elite players right now.

The other issue is what can Liverpool really buy with that money in the marketplace that would replace Coutinho. Keita's price is only being quoted as like 10 to 20 million Euro's less.

 

[PickledRed]

Why is Coutinho scoring in the 2016 League Cup final considered disappearing?

Because once you establish a reductive narrative that positions itself on the fringes of being reasonable you have to follow through with your line of argument. It's called winning the internet and it can ruin even the most mundane discussion.

 

[Robbie Boy]

If he doesn't leave this summer, he'll be gone next summer.

 

[FCBarca]

Sport say barca negotiators are in England to get Coutinho. Liverpool have asked for 100 million euros.
I like coutinho but he isnt worth that much, may be 60-70 million euros at max. But Barca need to make neymar happy and this is one way of doing it, buying him a friend.

There is more than a kernel of truth there, especially since MD is also running with a similar story pursuing both Coutinho & Paulinho

 

[Roosney]

Look.. I have no problem with Pogba. He is obviously a good player with a lot of potential. Same with Coutinho.

And all I am arguing against.. Is the idea, that Coutinho is nothing special, as opposed to Pogba being 'world class', because you won the League Cup and the Europa League.

Nah, it's the Community Shield.

 

[Redcy]

Look.. I have no problem with Pogba. He is obviously a good player with a lot of potential. Same with Coutinho.

And all I am arguing against.. Is the idea, that Coutinho is nothing special, as opposed to Pogba being 'world class', because you won the League Cup and the Europa League.

OK, I am not going to claim Pogba is world class, I don't think many players are at that stage in their career, I would say he is probably a bit more consistent than Coutinho, which at their ages is not a huge problem, but its whether Coutinho can become so. I would think there are two problems with Coutinho at Liverpool, firstly the players he plays with might mean he is the best player in that team, that has benefits and cons, it can mean that you don't ever get to improve your play. Secondly because he is there main player a lot of pressure is on his shoulders at a young age, at United we can carry Pogba a bit more when he goes missing it is not as evident. Which is how it should be.

Apologies I am sick of opposition fans claiming Pogba is shite, esp compared to x or y player when anyone who has seen him play can see he has a very high level of consistency with some stand out good and bad games.

 

[Halds]

Zlatan scored the winner in the League Cup final and Pogba scored in the Europa League final which United also went on to win.

The poster was pointing out Coutinho disappeared in both of those finals last season.

Not sure what's to argue about really. It's fact.

I am not arguing against the facts, that they scored, and you won the trophies..

But since you're pointing out, that Coutinho dissapeared, may I remind you, that he scored in the League Cup final. Thats hardly dissappearing, is it?

You can dissappear in a match and win it, and you can play the game of your life and lose it. Don't you agree? If you do, then you surely must agree, that winning a trophy is not an accurate way to describe a players ability.

 

[devil in me]

It would be a disaster for Liverpool to lose Coutinho. He is a brilliant player, no point denying that. I couldnt see it happening last week, but if Barca are determined, and he makes it clear that he fancies a move, then it will be difficult for them to stop him going. Very difficult for them to replace him.

 

[cyberman]

I wouldn't blame Coutinho for Klopps constant failures in finals

 

[whatwha]

Coutinho may be inconsistent but I don't think anyone can dispute that he makes LFC a better team, so I hope they lose him.

 

[Klopper76]

As he picked up a losers medal

That makes no sense. Pogba and Coutinho both scored in a final, so how can one player doing that be counted as disappearing because his team lost on penalties. The fact that he scored in a final means that he didn't disappear in that particular game.

Why are those two players being compared? They play in completely different positions.
Comparing Coutinho with Mata or Mkhitaryan would make more sense.

 

[roonster09]

I know Coutinho played there. As a young prospect and he is clearly a superior player to then. Pogba is used for his attacking contributions, hence why we have players there to support/unleash him. apparently his best position is advanced out of a midfield 3, thus he can be compared to an attacking midfielder, since his goal contributions (chances created, goals, assists) are what his team will be expecting

You can compare both players playing in Serie A when they were 19 and 20, Pogba wins by a huge margin and it's not even close.

 

[Stacks]

You can compare both players playing in Serie A when they were 19 and 20, Pogba wins by a huge margin and it's not even close.

yep and its pointless. players grow at different rates depending on many environmental factors. As grown players, over the past couple of seasons, there has been little difference in their contributions

 

[mitchmouse]

be so funny if he leaves.. RAWK won't so much going into meltdown as be shot off into space!

 

[roonster09]

yep and its pointless. players grow at different rates depending on many environmental factors. As grown players, over the past couple of seasons, there has been little difference in their contributions

Yes because one plays in midfield 3 in a box to box role and other plays attacking midfielder.

 

[TheReligion]

Talk is growing that Coutinho wants to leave for Barca.

Wonder if he'll stay this season and be replaced by Keita next.

 

[Stacks]

Yes because one plays in midfield 3 in a box to box role and other plays attacking midfielder.

Pogba was used in a free role also. In fact he doesn't have a fixed position yet at United. In 3, I believe he has the freedom and isn't a typical b2b

 

[Klopper76]

Talk is growing that Coutinho wants to leave for Barca.

Wonder if he'll stay this season and be replaced by Keita next.

Even if he did want to leave now, it's no different from the Keita situation. If RBL can refuse to sell Keita despite him wanting to leave, then we can do the same with Coutinho.

The most likely scenario is that Coutinho leaves next summer, if he has a good season.

Where are you reading that Coutinho has said he wants to leave this summer?