Philippe Coutinho

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I've been meaning to have a Pogba vs Coutinho debate for a while. Usually a debate like this is pretty much pointless because the Liverpool fan watches all of Liverpool's matches in a season but United less than 10 times. And the same goes for the United fan, that's even without factoring the obvious bias to your own player.

It would be nice to hear the opinion of someone who is unbiased and has watched most of their matches from last season. I watched Pogba about 10 times last season and my opinion is Largely based on his time at Juventus as well. He was never their best midfielder and imo has never been world class. Whilst he is a very good player he's accompanied by a lot of hype which in people's minds elevates him to a different level altogether. It was the same thing with Bale who was at best third best player in the league when Madrid bought him.

As for Coutinho he has never been world class either, I thought he was getting to that level last year when he had finally obtained consistency in his performances. His injury really fecked him and us. When he came back he never really got back to that level and because of his form we had to scrape for 4th. He did drag us through games though towards the end of the season and he remains our best player. People also don't realise that he was forced to play LW out of necessity and it is not his best position, but like the great player he is, he has adapted. Hopefully we will see him in midfield this season for us, and we do well, then people will finally appreciate his qualities, the onus is also on him to elevate himself to world class status.

As of now though, I think he and Pogba are around the same level but I prefer Coutinho as he is our player.
 
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I think he'll perform more consistently and improve once he goes to them, like Alonso and Modric did, they were both very good players in the PL but became world class after a few years with Real.
 
I disagree with the notion that Pogba is twice the player Coutinho is. That's just not true at all. Pogba is better but Coutinho is underrated on the Caf, he's a good tidy player with matchwinning abilities. He can finish, pass, dribble and has a decent footballing IQ.
 
VorZakone said:
Coutinho is underrated on the Caf, he's a good tidy player with matchwinning abilities. He can finish, pass, dribble and has a decent footballing IQ.
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That sounds so condescending. It's as if you were describing Ben Woodburn.
 
roonster09 said:
Seriously you can come up with lot of arguments, this one is very weak. Barca parted with money for lot of average players or players who aren't very good.
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Coutinho isn't average though. He's very good at football. Not sure it's really a debate. Pogba may be ahead of him. My contention was that he's not 'far' ahead. It's marginal stuff

The consistency point is a bit 2015.
 
Other than being more physically imposing than Coutinho I can't see much else reasoning to having Pogba over Coutinho.
 
PickledRed said:
Coutinho isn't average though. He's very good at football. Not sure it's really a debate. Pogba may be ahead of him. My contention was that he's not 'far' ahead. It's marginal stuff

The consistency point is a bit 2015.
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I agree with that. Coutinho is very good player, I said the supporting argument is weak.
 
Oga on top. said:
Other than being more physically imposing than Coutinho I can't see much else reasoning to having Pogba over Coutinho.
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Pogba just being generally better is probably the best reasoning.
 
AltiUn said:
Pogba just being generally better is probably the best reasoning.
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That said I'm sure you'll agree that Coutinho harbours certain attributes that Pogba isn't as good at - dribbling, goals and free kick taking come to mind.
 
The only 2 players worth a penny at Liverpool are Coutinho and Mane. I would take both at United, on their day unstoppable.
 
PickledRed said:
That said I'm sure you'll agree that Coutinho harbours certain attributes that Pogba isn't as good at - dribbling, goals and free kick taking come to mind.
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They are making Phil sound like Fabio Borini ffs. It's not just on the Caf as well. I've already got a £50 bet with my idiot United supporting cousin that Coutinho will score more than Pogba next season.
 
Oga on top. said:
They are making Phil sound like Fabio Borini ffs. It's not just on the Caf as well. I've already got a £50 bet with my idiot United supporting cousin that Coutinho will score more than Pogba next season.
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Your cousin should have a word with himself. Why bet on CM Vs Attacking mid when it comes to goals.
 
PickledRed said:
That said I'm sure you'll agree that Coutinho harbours certain attributes that Pogba isn't as good at - dribbling, goals and free kick taking come to mind.
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Goals and dribbling isn't as clear cut. For example, even though Pogba plays as a CM he scored 33 goals in last 5 season in league vs 35 scored by Coutinho.

Pogba completes more dribbles per game than Coutinho. He averaged more dribbles per game than Coutinho in every season except 1.
 
Ubermensch said:
Seems barca are fine with madrid dominating again. Coutinho is not the level they want to return to: Saul, isco, thiago and verratti are barca level players-not coutinho. IMO he isn't even better than eriksen.
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I know that Coutinho dropped a bit deep in some games i've seen, but for me he's not a central midfielder, so comparisons to Verratti are off.

I stand by my notion that Thiago seems to be massively overrated (here), good player, but nowhere near Barcelona level, so it's no coincidence that they didn't play him much.

Saul is a good player, but Coutinho has done more than him, IMO. Isco seems to be a good comparision, he's the one i'd take over Coutinho from your list.
 
roonster09 said:
Your cousin should have a word with himself. Why bet on CM Vs Attacking mid when it comes to goals.
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He's convinced Pogba is going to have a breakthrough year and score quite a few this coming season. Tbf last season he did punt on Chelsea winning the league after they got beat at Arsenal but still he's off his nut if he thinks Pogba is scoring more goals than Coutinho.
 
PickledRed said:
Coutinho is an extremely good footballer who is regularly the best player on the pitch in PL games. Modric became the revered footballer he is now when he joined Real not when he was with Spurs.

I'm not doubting your footballing viewing or knowledge. I'm simply suggesting that seeing players in the context of the English league lacks the same level of lustre and glamour as seeing far afield footballers being showcased in more fashionable settings (e.g. not Stoke).

I have no doubt that Coutinho would excel at Barca.
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Fair point and maybe it's the same thing we're are seeing with Lukaku. I aint complaining anyway. Piss off the scousers and leave dembel free for us
Mourinhonista said:
I know that Coutinho dropped a bit deep in some games i've seen, but for me he's not a central midfielder, so comparisons to Verratti are off.

I stand by my notion that Thiago seems to be massively overrated (here), good player, but nowhere near Barcelona level, so it's no coincidence that they didn't play him much.

Saul is a good player, but Coutinho has done more than him, IMO. Isco seems to be a good comparision, he's the one i'd take over Coutinho from your list.
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Mourinhonista said:
I know that Coutinho dropped a bit deep in some games i've seen, but for me he's not a central midfielder, so comparisons to Verratti are off.

I stand by my notion that Thiago seems to be massively overrated (here), good player, but nowhere near Barcelona level, so it's no coincidence that they didn't play him much.

Saul is a good player, but Coutinho has done more than him, IMO. Isco seems to be a good comparision, he's the one i'd take over Coutinho from your list.
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I mention CM because I think they will try groom him into the Iniesta role. If they are signing him to replace neymar then Madrid will pay for the transfer themselves. I agree that Thiago is massively overrated but if he's nowhere near barca level then Coutinho should never step foot into the city let alone the club. I don't understand how Coutinho has shown more than Saul who has had strong showings against the likes of Bayern but I guess that's a matter of preference. And yes isco is a monster.:drool:
 
Only a friendly but Coutinho is giving a masterclass against Leicester. Best player on the pitch by a mile.
 
Coutinho is a bit of a flat track bully & Pogba ought to be.

Totally different kinds of player, don't see how you compare them.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Coutinho is a very good player, but nowhere near as good as Pogba.
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B20 said:
Except performance wise
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haram said:
He really isn't as good as Pogba.
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TrustInJanuzai said:
Pogba really is a far better player tbh
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PickledRed said:
No he isn't far better
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TrustInJanuzai said:
Pogba really is a far better player tbh
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Please elaborate. Coutinho has shown better offensive powers in my opinion, based on what I see. I compared Pogba at Juve (his glory days in a weak league), to Coutinho and they are pretty much equal statistically. In fact in 2016 Squawka had Coutinho higher.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m.../successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%#90



Do you not think that if Coutinho was in Serie A, he would look like Kaka? I mean Salah et al tore the league apart.
 
Stacks said:
Please elaborate. Coutinho has shown better offensive powers in my opinion, based on what I see. I compared Pogba at Juve (his glory days in a weak league), to Coutinho and they are pretty much equal statistically. In fact in 2016 Squawka had Coutinho higher.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m.../successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%#90



Do you not think that if Coutinho was in Serie A, he would look like Kaka? I mean Salah et al tore the league apart.
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The Italian league teams have performed around the same level as the PL teams in Europe the last few years.
 
Flytan said:
Coutinho on the level of Pogba.

I've officially seen it all.
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Well how highly do you rate Pogba? Do you think he is on the same level as the likes of Kroos, Modric, Thiago or Verrati?
 
Why is this thread such a car crash? What's the point of comparing players that are so different?

Coutinho is an excellent player, there's no doubt about that. Is he good enough for Barca and to fill Neymar's boots? Who knows, if this move happens time will tell.

From Liverpool's point of view, they'd be losing a player they'll struggle to replace. A bit like they failed to adequately replace Suarez since his Barca move. Players of that calibre are both rare and increasingly hard to sign. They still need a striker and a CB in my opinion. But not sure who's out there that is both good and available. I feel they need to resist the move if they can.

From our POV it'd be great if he goes.
 
Wh the feck are people continually comparing Pogba to primarily no 10?
Modric and Kross would struggle v Alli or Scholes v Coutinho.
Its all nonsense. If anything its Coutinho v Mata
 
Kurosawa said:
That sounds so condescending. It's as if you were describing Ben Woodburn.
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What do you expect him to say? Coutinho is a Liverpool player and this is a Utd forum. :lol: we aren't going to cream over him and I don't think what he described is condescending at all.
Coutinho is a good player but not exactly world-class yet. There's a reason why he was let go by Inter for only £8.5 million and no other clubs were in for him.
 
Stacks said:
Please elaborate. Coutinho has shown better offensive powers in my opinion, based on what I see. I compared Pogba at Juve (his glory days in a weak league), to Coutinho and they are pretty much equal statistically. In fact in 2016 Squawka had Coutinho higher.

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m.../successful_take_ons/successful_take_ons_%#90



Do you not think that if Coutinho was in Serie A, he would look like Kaka? I mean Salah et al tore the league apart.
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Sorry to inform you, Coutinho played in Serie A.

Also Pogba is centre mid, coutinho is attacking mid.
 
MullerUtd said:
What do you expect him to say? Coutinho is a Liverpool player and this is a Utd forum. :lol: we aren't going to cream over him and I don't think what he described is condescending at all.
Coutinho is a good player but not exactly world-class yet. There's a reason why he was let go by Inter for only £8.5 million and no other clubs were in for him.
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It depends on what players you would describe as world class as standards have slipped these days. Would you describe Mata or Mhkhitarian as world class? What about Martial? Because if you say they are then Coutinho certainly is.
 
BullishBull said:
It depends on what players you would describe as world class as standards have slipped these days. Would you describe Mata or Mhkhitarian as world class? What about Martial? Because if you say they are then Coutinho certainly is.
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In my opinion, you have to be the top 5 in your position to be considered as world-class so no I don't think Mata or Mkhitaryan are world-class. They are top players but far from world-class. And no way is Martial world-class. Anyone who says that is just deluded. :lol:
 
cyberman said:
Wh the feck are people continually comparing Pogba to primarily no 10?
Modric and Kross would struggle v Alli or Scholes v Coutinho.
Its all nonsense. If anything its Coutinho v Mata
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I agree. So Coutinho or Mata?
 
MullerUtd said:
In my opinion, you have to be the top 5 in your position to be considered as world-class so no I don't think Mata or Mkhitaryan are world-class. They are top players but far from world-class. And no way is Martial world-class. Anyone who says that is just deluded. :lol:
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Yeah I agree with that, but as I said the pundits, and fans alike seem to call every decent player world class these days. I had a Spurs fans trying to tell me Moussa Dembele is world class.
 
@Klopper76
Coutinho in a more physical and explosive side and Juan in a side that keeps the ball and dominates possession.
Done and done.
 
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