Philippe Coutinho

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ShadesOfTomato said:
I was initially quite concerned we'd take the money, however we've been pretty adamant thus far.

When Torres, Sterling, Suarez were sold there was nearly no information from inside the club. There was no denying or confirming rumours of a sale. The only other time we've displayed a hard line approach like this has been when Arsenal were in for Suarez.

FSG proved then that they could be resilient, and seem to be replicating that this time around.

Though had an approach been made by Barca earlier in the summer - with apt time to find a replacement, we'd have plausibly been more receptive to a sale.
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Absolute nonsense.

I specifically remember the club saying Torres and Sterling weren't for sale right before they were sold.

I'm pretty certain it happened with Suarez too though that seemed a bit more pre-agreed after he'd tried to force it previously.

It's always the way. The club needs to save face and hold a strong negotiating position. In the end it's usually meaningless with LFC though.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Absolute nonsense.

I specifically remember the club saying Torres and Sterling weren't for sale right before they were sold.

I'm pretty certain it happened with Suarez too though that seemed a bit more pre-agreed after he'd tried to force it previously.

It's always the way. The club needs to save face and hold a strong negotiating position. In the end it's usually meaningless with LFC though.
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Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies.
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Kraftwerker said:
I don't think you know what that means.
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Oh, so you are not saying "Liverpool have sold all their big players before, so Liverpool supporters are stupid for thinking it won't happen this time"?

What other points have you brought up, except "they have done it before"?
 
TheBarnacle said:
Oh, so you are not saying "Liverpool have sold all their big players before, so Liverpool supporters are stupid for thinking it won't happen this time"?

What other points have you brought up, except "they have done it before"?
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It's a fairly obvious point.

LFC club statements about not selling have often preceded a sale. Therefore it may be a little foolish to consider the matter closed.

I'm not saying Coutinho will be sold. I'm saying the club statement is meaningless when viewed in the context of what's gone before.

For there to be a logical fallacy my entire argument would have to fall down due to an impossibility I hadn't accounted for in my logic.

Whereas everything I've said is eminently possible. And some would argue probable.
 
Kraftwerker said:
It's a fairly obvious point.

LFC club statements about not selling have often preceded a sale. Therefore it may be a little foolish to consider the matter closed.

I'm not saying Coutinho will be sold. I'm saying the club statement is meaningless when viewed in the context of what's gone before.

For there to be a logical fallacy my entire argument would have to fall down due to an impossibility I hadn't accounted for in my logic.

Whereas everything I've said is eminently possible. And some would argue probable.
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No other points then. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
TheBarnacle said:
No other points then. Thanks for clearing that up.
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What are you looking for?

Obviously Liverpool selling star players before is not the only reason a transfer like this might happen. There's a list as long as your arm encompassing the severe lack of trophies, no league title in 25 years, the small time mentality at the club, the parochial nature of Liverpool as a city and the fans.

But I don't have to go into those every post do I? We were simply discussing whether club statements are a reliable indicator of what will actually occur. My position is that they tend not to be. I already stated that I have no idea what will happen.

Is this a good way to use up your newb privileges? You should make every post count.
 
Feck off with the people saying he's overrated. On form he's one of the best players in the league.
 
Arbitrium said:
Feck off with the people saying he's overrated. On form he's one of the best players in the league.
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He looks good sometimes in a bang average Liverpool team. i'm not convinced he's capable of playing at a high enough level consistently to succeed at Barcelona. But we'll find out, no way will Liverpool stop this transfer from happening now. This a dream move for the lad.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Absolute nonsense.

I specifically remember the club saying Torres and Sterling weren't for sale right before they were sold.
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Well then your memory is fecked or you're lying.

The Torres transfer came completely out of the blue in the last two days of the January window, and Sterling made it clear he wanted to leave via interviews with the BBC - thus creating an inevitability around his transfer.
 
Liv play ucl this season if they qualify, Liv can test if bracelona pay around 150m pounds for coutinho.
 
prtk0811 said:
Liv play ucl this season if they qualify, Liv can test if bracelona pay around 150m pounds for coutinho.
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They can test but Barcelona will not pay £150m for him. £110m is probably the very maximum they'd offer. They won't jump from £90m to £150m and spend two thirds of Neymar fee on Coutinho.
 
Sarni said:
They can test but Barcelona will not pay £150m for him. £110m is probably the very maximum they'd offer. They won't jump from £90m to £150m and spend two thirds of Neymar fee on Coutinho.
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That's the point, Liverpool dont need to sell.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Haven't Liverpool already said he's not for sale, it's not about the money? Only way Coutinho gets this move is if he pushes hard for it himself - going public on it, refusing to play, etc but I don't get the impression he wants to do the "dirty work" required.
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We have said he is not for sale.

It's odd several people on here claiming it was already a done deal that Barca submitted a second offer then!
 
As much as it would be excellent for Coutinho to leave Liverpool from a United point of view, i'm really enjoying watching Barca not get their own way. This is win/win as far as I'm concerned. Just gonna sit back and watch!
 
Why are so many here convinced he's going to go? I've not been following closely but the mainstream UK papers outside of the gossip section seem to indicate we're holding firm and Coutinho has not been publicly agitating for a move either.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Well then your memory is fecked or you're lying.

The Torres transfer came completely out of the blue in the last two days of the January window, and Sterling made it clear he wanted to leave via interviews with the BBC - thus creating an inevitability around his transfer.
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EXHIBIT A:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...nsfer-request-as-Chelsea-prepare-new-bid.html

"Liverpool are adamant that Torres is not for sale and manager Kenny Dalglish has already told the player and the club’s owners that he will not agree to any deal."


EXHIBIT B:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e-as-england-star-hints-at-move-10150545.html

"Brendan Rodgers will insist this morning that Raheem Sterling is not for sale after Liverpool’s contract refusnik veered dramatically off-message in an interview - and accused the club of not offering him a new deal last summer."

"At Rodgers’ regular pre-match press conference at the club’s Melwood training ground today, the manager will repeat the club’s position that Sterling, who has two years on his contract after this season, is not for sale and that they will not be bullied into losing their best players."


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Who's got the fecked memory or is the liar then?
 
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Kraftwerker said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...nsfer-request-as-Chelsea-prepare-new-bid.html

"Liverpool are adamant that Torres is not for sale and manager Kenny Dalglish has already told the player and the club’s owners that he will not agree to any deal."


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...e-as-england-star-hints-at-move-10150545.html

"Brendan Rodgers will insist this morning that Raheem Sterling is not for sale after Liverpool’s contract refusnik veered dramatically off-message in an interview - and accused the club of not offering him a new deal last summer."

"At Rodgers’ regular pre-match press conference at the club’s Melwood training ground today, the manager will repeat the club’s position that Sterling, who has two years on his contract after this season, is not for sale and that they will not be bullied into losing their best players."


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Who's got the fecked memory or is the liar then?
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How dare you! Scouse claims are supposed to go unchecked here and to be accepted as facts. Or is that only on RAWK? I'm unsure...
 
Buchan said:
Southampton and Leipzig have said the same yet it hasn't stopped Liverpool unsettling their players.
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And with keita at least it looks like he is not going anywhere.
 
Wooly Red said:
Why are so many here convinced he's going to go? I've not been following closely but the mainstream UK papers outside of the gossip section seem to indicate we're holding firm and Coutinho has not been publicly agitating for a move either.
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I've been wondering that as well. Our stance is the same as RBL's with Keita. We're not desperate for money and have no reason to sell.

I'm sure Coutinho wants the move but that doesn't mean he's going to get it.
 
Klopper76 said:
I've been wondering that as well. Our stance is the same as RBL's with Keita. We're not desperate for money and have no reason to sell.

I'm sure Coutinho wants the move but that doesn't mean he's going to get it.
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I think most people believe Coutinho will be desperate for the move, being a Brazilian and all, and that if he is, it's probably just a matter of time/money.

All depends on the player himself I'd say. We had no reason at all to sell Ronaldo either, but that isn't always the point.
 
Barca must be annoyed with the lack of a release clause. They got shafted with Neymar since they're mandatory over there, yet over here they're having to pay way over the odds. If release clauses were mandatory in the PL then it's hard to imagine Coutinho's being set above the £90m they've already bid.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I think most people believe Coutinho will be desperate for the move, being a Brazilian and all, and that if he is, it's probably just a matter of time/money.

All depends on the player himself I'd say. We had no reason at all to sell Ronaldo either, but that isn't always the point.
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So let's say he decides to do what Van Dijk is doing and kicks up a fuss, hands in a transfer request etc. Barcelona make a higher offer again and we say no, then the window closes.

What can Coutinho do, refuse to play? There's a World Cup next year that he'll want to be in contention for, and he can't do that if he's sitting in the stands.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Of course it is, it's crazy money for any player. I have no idea how much they really wanted to sell or how much was just good PR for the fans.
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Not really. The market is getting more and more inflated by average players going for insane fees, it stands to reason that the value of top players rises accordingly.
 
Klopper76 said:
So let's say he decides to do what Van Dijk is doing and kicks up a fuss, hands in a transfer request etc. Barcelona make a higher offer again and we say no, then the window closes.

What can Coutinho do, refuse to play? There's a World Cup next year that he'll want to be in contention for, and he can't do that if he's sitting in the stands.
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Sure he's not going to go on strike, but I reckon the possible problems are far more nuanced than that. A sulking/bitter player can cause you many problems. What if he's confrontational during training sessions? What if ruins the realtionship between him and his team mates when he tries to force a move? Or what if he simply doesn't work hard enough against the ball? A pressing approach is only as good as its weakest link, especially if you're as commited to it as Klopp's teams are - and if he still works hard during Brazil's matches that won't affect his WC chances one bit.
 
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