He will be here and gone before Fergie leaves.
Pep Guardiola agrees contract with Bayern
- Thread starter Cold_Boy
- Start date
Fits right in there
My knowledge about football is obviously not as some of you guys on this forum but would I be entirely wrong in thinking that it would be better to see what Guardiola can do with a different set of players besides the Barca ones?
I am simply thinking this because Barca still seem to play as good if not better without him this season and Spain seem to play the same kind of football without him as well. Makes me wonder if he really is as good as he is made out to be or if he is one of the above average managers who were lucky enough to have had that set of players playing for him?
I am simply thinking this because Barca still seem to play as good if not better without him this season and Spain seem to play the same kind of football without him as well. Makes me wonder if he really is as good as he is made out to be or if he is one of the above average managers who were lucky enough to have had that set of players playing for him?
It'd be short sighted to think that because Barcelona continue to play well without Pep that somehow it is in spite of his absence rather than a product of what he already built. Tito is his right hand man and few who already knew this were expecting Barcelona to be markedly different to that under Pep. And as good as Barcelona are currently playing, trophies will be what is remembered most. Pep didn't just set the bar high, he made it in surmountable and Tito has readily conceded this as well. Think of this as merely another chapter with Pep ghostwriting their current story rather than a new book altogether.
But like many, it'll be interesting to see what Pep can do elsewhere. I have no doubt he'll be successful but that doesn't mean they will be Barcelona redux - the style will be similar however as Guardiola only knows one way to play the game
But like many, it'll be interesting to see what Pep can do elsewhere. I have no doubt he'll be successful but that doesn't mean they will be Barcelona redux - the style will be similar however as Guardiola only knows one way to play the game
I can't see him going to City or Chelsea. I really really can't. I think Pep is like Van Persie in that he likes a club that does things the right way, a club with prestige and class. Even looking at it as a neutral, Chelsea and City are football cancer.
If you ask me his next career move will be either Bayern or United, or a return to Barca if it comes about.
Although thinking about it, wouldn't taking the Spain national job be perfect for him? It's not a day-to-day job, would give him plenty of time off, working with great players...
If you ask me his next career move will be either Bayern or United, or a return to Barca if it comes about.
Although thinking about it, wouldn't taking the Spain national job be perfect for him? It's not a day-to-day job, would give him plenty of time off, working with great players...
Spain would be perfect but the earliest that could happen is 2014
That is pretty scary if you ask me, and the main reason I do not want us to get him. It is very important for a new manager coming in, at least initially, to adopt to the club's philosophy and play to the strength of players available. We are not going to become this pressing/short-passing machine. Neither do we have players to play narrow and break down teams with skills of an Iniesta or a Messi. You cannot come in and expect players to adapt to your style straightaway.
Villa-boas tried to do that at Chelsea and we know how that turned out. It was preposterous to ask Terry to play and succeed in the high line the same way it would be ridiculous to ask Rio or Vidic to do that.
Yeah, I understand but I can't see Pep managing any other way. If he doesn't have the squad for the style of play he intends to employ, then he'll acquire them and I'm certain he'll want the youth teams to play in the same manner. He won't be a band aid manager to come in and get a team to simply win regardless of style but lay down the foundation for his philosophy.
That and SAF not likely retiring just yet is why I think United won't be his destination. I could be wrong of course but not my impression of what Guardiola is seeking
That and SAF not likely retiring just yet is why I think United won't be his destination. I could be wrong of course but not my impression of what Guardiola is seeking
We don't really know how completely he'll stick to it, though. Obviously he favours that style of football, but he's also only ever been at a club that favours that style of football. It's possible that when he came to another club, he'd quite sensibly slowly introduce his style, adapting it to the club's existing character and squad.
Harsh to assume he'd do a Villas Boas (and whilst he has football principles, he doesn't have that slightly obsessive single-mindedness in his character that, for me, is the key weakness in VB's managerial personality) until he's actually had an opportunity to prove otherwise.
Harsh to assume he'd do a Villas Boas (and whilst he has football principles, he doesn't have that slightly obsessive single-mindedness in his character that, for me, is the key weakness in VB's managerial personality) until he's actually had an opportunity to prove otherwise.
Let him prove it at some other club.
His transfer market record isn't exemplary either.
Do not want.
His transfer market record isn't exemplary either.
Do not want.
I may be wrong but I thought he didn't have a say re transfers at Barca?
Really? I did not know that. May be FCBarca can confirm.
Whilst I agree with most of your points, I don't think the style of play is something that will be dictated to the next manager. Fergie always mentions our wingers as being in the clubs DNA but you can guarantee that if it wasn't the sort of tactics he knows inside out and loves then he wouldn't be using it.
We took a huge step towards technical football through our academy when we brought Meulestuen in a decade ago to over see it, I don't see any reason we wouldn't continue that evolution and adopt much of Peps philosophies if the club thought it the way forward.
Slightly romaticised for me.
Pep acheived great things at Barca, there's no doubt about that - but he didn't do anything revolutionary in terms of style of play.
He had access to one of the best groups of players ever, a lot of whom have come up through the yout system playing a certain way. The system envisioned by Cruyff and which starts at a young age.
He did, of course take things to the next level, and United a team after a poor couple of seasons. That's a great achievement, but I don't see that his tactical nouse has ever been tested - its significant that on the rare occaision it didn't work Barca had no plan B, and his record in the transfer market is also arguably a little iffy. He also seemed to bail out on Barca simply becasue he wanted to move on - or possibly because the pressure was getting to much for him.
It'll be interesting to see what he does elsewhere - without the worlds best squad to pick from and where the pressure will be on to bring instant success.
Not final say and he never demanded for anyone as far as anyone knows. Pep isn't an authoritarian in that way. He did ask for players both coming & going and he has a mostly exemplary record in that regard
I was just pointing out that say compared to City, the transition to Pep's philosophy is easier/quicker at your local rivals than United. As you point out, United is like Winger U and there's a real lack of technical ability in midfield which is a hallmark of what Pep would likely employ.
There's the youth academy as well which again favors City who have a massive investment in a system that is modeled after La Masia and plenty of cash for transfers along with non meddlesome ownership. Plus, SAF would have to be departing soon which could happen I suppose but he certainly hasn't given too much indication that that is in the cards. But who knows?
I refuse to believe a manager has no say in transfers, especially a manager on a rolling one year contract who's very succesful. They wanted to keep him as long as possible.
I'm sure from the outside and for people who haven't watched Barcelona long enough, that would be an easy conclusion to make. For those who have paid attention longer, we know better. Revolutionary is indeed accurate.
So did Rijkaard and arguably with even more talent yet they never played like this one.
Fair points and we'll see what and how he does going forward. He only coached for 4 years and won just about everything there is to win. I would have to say that it's also a bit of the glass is half empty sort of thinking.
Many outside the club will agree with you, I am certain he will be successful but as I mentioned before he can't do better than he already has - it will always look inferior to what he has accomplished at Barcelona.
I do think, however, that he will revolutionize whatever club he ends up at.
Wouldn't surprise me if he does end up at City. They look a bit stale this year and billionaire owners don't tolerate that for long.
I see what you are saying, that a blank canvas with the backing to buy the most luxurious paint brushes and paints would be more appealing than being led into the Sistine Chapel and handed a Sharpie and asked to improve it but I disagree, I think any manager would prefer to enter a structured environment and have a lot of the ground work done, than to go to a club with no recent history for producing players and expect to suddenly turn it around.
If Pep went to City, he'd need a good 10 years before the fruits of his labour are seen through the academy whereas at United its already there, he'd just have to influence it with his own philosophies.
Regarding your first point - I'm not so sure. The system at Barca is revolutionary - but I don't see that its neccessarily driven solely by the manager. Case in point is his assistant manager taking over and the players doing exactly what they always do.
They appoint internally becasue those candidates have come through or are part of the system.
Rijkaard had a good squad, more talented though? I don't really see that. Guardiola has has Lionel Messi - and Xavi and Iniesta at the absolute peak of their powers.
Maybe he will go and "revolutionise" a club playing elsewhere - but its a massive ask. He's had an amazing squad, with young players coming through in abundance ready to slot in. No manager can make the players he has any better, not can he generate a youth team full of talent at will.
The big question is whether he can cut his cloth to suit - a new team, a new league, new challenges. Really top managers can work with what they have and get the best out of them. No good going in the Blackburn and asking them to play like Barcelona so you have to change your thinking.
As I said, his transfers seemed a bit iffy to me, and a lot of them just didn't fit in. That'd be my real concern if he has to "build" a team.
That said, he'll no doubt soon get a chance to prove me wrong.
Rijkaard had Xavi, Iniesta and Deco + Ronaldinho, Eto'o and Messi - the only positions they've improved on since have been at fullback IMO. It was their intense pressing game that took them up another level from being a great team to near-unbeatable and there's been a lot of teams trying to replicate that since so you have to give credit to Guardiola for implementing it. Perhaps he wouldn't have done it at another club with a completely different setup but even then you have Bielsa saying Guardiola was asking him about his teams' pressing game since the beginning of the decade, so it was clearly something he was personally interested in trying out. Barcelona with their unrivalled ability to retain the ball in tight spaces certainly made it easier for him but at the end of the day Rijkaard had the same tools at his disposal but never saw the potential for that.
Mostly agree but I don't think it'd take 10 years to win or that he'd have to be there to see those fruits realized in an academy. I think the goal would be to implement a philosophy not to see it pay dividends like Barcelona's right away. I think it'll have to be a combination of helping a team win trophies while seeing their academy transition into this era of Cruyffism. Both Manchester clubs are poised to win trophies but one has more technical expertise on their current roster than the other along with better resources, ownership & former Barcelona management that Pep knows well.
Still think all signs point to City but it's merely a feeling
I don't understand this at all. What manager wouldn't want to work at Man City? Unlimited funds and seemingly very hands off owners. If you have the self belief that you can do well and not worry about the owners being quick to fire you then it's a dream job.
Just because we like Manchester United doesn't mean someone that chooses to manage City should be labeled a cnut.
You know the Catalonia independence referendum is in 2014? Im sure Pep would rather manage that team than Spain.
You're overlooking the fact that Tito spent 5 years alongside Pep after having been a teammate with him, who better to continue Pep's work?
This, however, is a new phenomena
Still, Rijkaard had Leo, Xavi & Iniesta...along with Ronaldinho, Eto'O, Deco and Larsson. I think it had an awesome collection of talent and not only could they not maximize it under Rijkaard, they were incredibly inconsistent. Imagine that same squad with Pep in charge.
I don't want to make this all about Barcelona but Leo, Xavi & Iniesta (To some extent Busquets as well) are perhaps generational players. So no, Pep can't create a Messi out of thin air anymore than he could an Iniesta or Xavi. He can, however, get the most out of players like Silva, Nasri or similar
Plus, you can't cite Pep's good fortune on players like Pedro & Busquets as somehow just lucky circumstances. Pep did coach the B team and intimately knew what he had when he helped them get promoted through 2 divisions. He gave cantera players a chance, you don't see that anywhere and even the capital club has produced talent from their cantera but they don't get 1st team opportunities.
I don't think the idea is that he will miraculously produce talent out of an academy immediately over even 4 seasons. The idea would be to implement the philosophy, revolutionizing the club and producing a conveyor belt of talent over time - likely after he has left.
Definitely but he will not play any other way - it'd be a mistake to think he'd suddenly continue a club's playing style based on what their philosophy or talent dictates. He's going to a club to implement Pepism.
I'm sure the Premiership appeals for a variety of reasons. Who knows how it will work out ultimately but he's a winner.
I agree but it will be interesting how everything pans out.
I don't think that Mancini will be at City after this season after another poor performance in the CL and it will take something special to overturn United and win the title in my eyes anyway.
But then you have to look at other managerial candidates. With what is happening at Madrid it would be no surprise to see Mourinho looking for a job either and City might want him rather than Pep.
Which brings me to Pep, who I believe can be right for City in style of play right now, but United have shown an intent to play narrower and quicker in some game this season which is down to the signing of Kagawa, and Cleverley becoming more prominent, and Rooney dropping a little deeper. All this has helped United play like that in games. Also, I'd say United are the best in terms of youth products which Pep can bring through and would be the best long term destination for him if that is what he desires.
I think Fergie would have to leave this season for Pep to come here. He said he wants to get back into football, and I'm sure it will be for next season. I'd rather have Fergie stay.
Don't get me excited
Are you a Catalan mate? Looking pretty guaranteed to pass
Peps always expressed his pro independence views and I couldnt think of anyone better to take charge of an official Catalan team!
Are you a Catalan mate? Looking pretty guaranteed to pass
Peps always expressed his pro independence views and I couldnt think of anyone better to take charge of an official Catalan team!
In my soul
It would be awesome, no doubt about it
Vida probably, but Rio in his prime could fit in easy. And Evans will now.
Doesn't have a great record in terms of buying players so far despite all his success.
Sky Italia saying he is going to Bayern apparently.
Are you a Catalan mate? Looking pretty guaranteed to pass
Do you understand the Spanish constitution? Autonomies cannot call legally binding referendum in regards to their association with the state of Spain.
In my soul
It would be awesome, no doubt about it
Don't be a plonker!
But if they call it and people declare for independence, then what? I know that the referendum will not have legal power, but things will became more complicated. Ultimately, if a nation wants independence, then most likely it will succeed in it.
Yes but if it passes the spanish government wont be able to stop it, it'll end up going to the EU or UN.
Your location is testament to that mate.
It's called an opinion poll! It's also not a nation and never has been! Look up "Jaime I de Aragón el Conquistador".
No it won't, as it's not even binding under the Spanish constitution.
Yes I know which is why I said they will go to the EU or UN about it. Just look at Yugoslavia and Serbia and the breakup of that territory into different counties, if that populous want it it will happen.