Yeah, both versions of Scholes are different than the current version of Pogba.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 47
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 14
- Yellow cards
- 7
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Pogba is playing some balloon d'or stuff right now. Imagine his assist number if he had a proper striker to play with instead of a slow Ibra and an agricultural Lukaku.
No way. Scholes did plenty of outrageous stuff. It's just not been bigged up the same as some players because he's short, English and ginger.
Pogba is very capable too and enjoyable to watch, but with Scholes there was the utmost confidence that he'll get the ball to the man which Pogba has yet to reach imo.
He’s not less consistent at creating chances than Scholes. He seems to create about two sitters a game.
Imagine how good he could be if he has runners across the front three, not just Rashford and/or Martial.
I couldn't care less about him defensively, he's notching up assists and goals at an insane level since he's been moved forwards and that is what it's all about.
Throw some money at Chelsea for the unsettled Kante, get an RW and sign Wan Bissake and we're there. Ready to compete at the top.
I couldn't care less about him defensively, he's notching up assists and goals at an insane level since he's been moved forwards and that is what it's all about.
Throw some money at Chelsea for the unsettled Kante, get an RW and sign Wan Bissake and we're there. Ready to compete at the top.
Did De Bruyne take penalties for City in that season? Naturally goals from open-play get more praise.
Of course its close.
Pogba can do what Scholes does plus much much more.
Left peg,outside of the boot,crossfield pass,first time volley,defence splitting through balls.
Scholes was great but lets stop overrating his ability and underrating Pogbas.
He just cannot though. Just because Pogba can make a long pass doesn't mean he makes it with the same accuracy as Scholes. Gerrard and even Rooney on his good day can make those long passes if they are given time. Scholes had the pinpoint accuracy that Pogba still hasn't mastered and he may never be able to.
Passing wise? No.
Other things? Sure.
He cannot half control the tempo Scholes could.
Should have worded my post better but what I actually meant was he probably gave the ball away less frequently/picked his moments well etc although I’m probably remembering a more mature Paul Scholes and if Pogba develops well in that area the sky is the limit.
All you're telling me here is that either you weren't watching United during Scholes' peak, or you weren't paying attention. Anyone who was will tell you your second sentence is a fantasy.
Pogba is a brilliant player because of the attributes he does have, not the ones you're pretending he has.
Everything he listed in that post are absolutely things Pogba has, and does, regularly. Pogba is just 25 now. If he keeps playing as he is until the end of next season, there will be little doubt that he will be at a level that is above Scholes. Well, unless we are 6th and rubbish still, then there will be as he would never be able to compare to those from the glory years.
Why ?
What was the most assist Scholes managed in a single season when he was around Pogba’s age? Genuine question as he was playing in a similar position at that time only with better players
Not quite, wasn't he playing off the striker in a more direct role?
"People say he is a great player, but you have to define what a great player is," says Peter Schmeichel, the former United goalkeeper. "For me, it is a player who has a bottom level that means his worst performance is not noticed. If he is having a bad game, a team-mate might feel Paul Scholes is not quite on his game, but a spectator wouldn't notice. Scholes, of all the players I have played with, has the highest bottom level."
Pogba’s bottom level is definitely noticeable.
Pogba’s bottom level is definitely noticeable.
I feel like Pogba's bottom level just gets scrutinised to insanely stupid levels though. I've seen games where I've come away thinking he's been one of the more threatening players on the pitch (he's given it away a couple of times, but generally he's played well) but then have come on here and he's getting ripped to pieces, or pundits are sticking the knife in. I've rarely come away from a match he's played in and thought he was one of the worst on the pitch, he's far from perfect but generally I'd say even when doing poorly it's clear he has excellent technique.
I do also think he's a big risk taker, and when players like this are having a bad day it's not like they can go under the radar.
Because it’s not disputable to me that he has more talent. The question will be the whole ‘consistency’ one. If that goes, then he’s a better player to me. In my own personal opinion, Pogba is better, but I think it will also be a lot more people’s opinion if the current form continues for another 18 months. Crucially, the team needs to be successful too in order to make to comparison fair. It’s very difficult to have an objective comparison in the game between good players who win a lot and good players who don’t. Despite it not being one man’s job to win cups, players from winning sides are often remembered more fondly I think.
And for the record, I do think Scholes was a fabulous player. He was my favourite United player for a lot of my time growing up as a United fan. I do think he’s absolutely overrated on this forum though, where there seems to be an implicit consensus, without it being directly said that often, that Scholes is the best midfielder of all time and the best passer of a football of all time. The reality is that he isn’t even unanimously recognised as the best ever PL midfielder by those in this country, let alone in comparison to those from elsewhere.
In comparison to Pogba, I think his ‘sloppiness’ on the ball is massively overstated too. There also seems to be some sort of implication that he can pass a ball 50 yards but can’t pass it 5, which is false in my opinion. He keeps possession fantastically well, and can play an array of short passes with any part of either foot which allows him to keep possession under pressure. If all anyone wanted for him was to be a Jorginho, I reckon he could do that very easily. I won’t deny that he, like all including the very best, can be careless and misplace an easy pass. But I’ve said before, I think people are missing a hell of a player by the tendency to focus more on what Pogba can’t do than what he can in this country.
I also think he walks off a football pitch having been the best player on it more often than Scholes did. And that’s not based on a sample of the last 10 games either. I admit that he also walks off of a pitch having been the worst player on it more often than Scholes did too, although Scholes most definitely had those games himself too. If United of 20 years ago were only as good and successful as United today, I imagine the conversation about Scholes would have focused a bit more about the fact that he wasn’t that great defensively either, or didn’t dribble particularly well, couldn’t tackle as opposed to his fantastic passing range and goal threat from anywhere within 25 yards. It would have been ridiculous to keep focusing on what he wasn’t so good at when he’s contributing to his team winning. I honestly think that in contrast, the football world in this country are more concerned with Pogba’s lack of tracking of runners, or occasional mental lapses than they are with the fact that he also happens to be the most creative midfielder in this country. That’s like a begrudging afterthought.
As I’ve said, all of this is in my own opinion, and you asked ‘why?’ so I told. If others feel Scholes is better that’s their right, but I personally don’t, and don’t think they are compared equally and fairly anyway, for a number of reasons.
Only one season.
Unsurprisingly Pogba’s bottom level is more noticeable when he’s in a team that requires his top level in order to be better than your average fodder every week, while Scholes played for a team that would comfortably win when he wasn’t at his best.
If Scholes was playing weekly against some of the great CL sides we faced back then like Juve and Real let’s see if his bottom level would not be more noticeable than it would in a game where we beat Southampton 5-0 at Old Trafford.
You really are clueless
Atrributes im pretending he has?
He does these things on a regular basis ffs.
Sometimes even multiples times a game.
And i did watch Scholes at his peak.
Great player but overrated by many people on here.
No but I’d imagine his assist total was helped by him being on corners and free kicks.
I get where you're coming from. His best passes are much better than what Scholes could do but the consistency of Scholes passing long and short is what makes Scholes definitely a better passer for now.
In saying that, Pogba has the passing talent to be much better than Scholes, he just needs to cut out the sloppy passes he's prone to making within games. Pogba can make any pass Scholes did but there are passes I've seen Pogba make that Scholes couldn't.
That video is ridiculous
It's more than the pure goal and assist numbers.
I love Scholes but this forum loves nostalgia and hyping up United longevity merchants. “It’s not even close” 
please.
please.Read your own post again, the second line, the one I specifically referred to, says that Pogba "can do what Scholes does", that's simply not true, regardless of what else he can do. Scholes controlled and dictated games, he used his passing to create space for himself and others, he played the right passes at the right times, he rarely misplaced a pass whether it was a 50 yards or 10 yards and his passes almost unfailingly went exactly where they needed to go to make the first touch easier for the receiving player. He did these things game-in game-out over seasons. These aren't things you can currently say about Pogba.
That's not a problem though, Pogba's job is to create chances and score goals. He doesn't have to be as good an all-round passer as Scholes to do his job well or be a great player.
Tagging @Rozay as he replied to that post with a similar take, although in a far more civil tone, I hope that clears things up my views on it for you as well.
@Posh Red - I think Scholes turned 25 during the 1999-2000 season where we still played 4-4-2 pretty religiously. I don't think there was ever a period where you can really say Scholes played in a similar role to the one Pogba is playing now, primarily because Fergie's teams created most of their chances from the wings rather than through the centre as we do now. The equivalent to Pogba in Fergie's Treble side would be Giggs or Beckham, because they had basically the same job as Pogba does now, to create chances for the forwards and chip in with goals. If they made a table of who played the passes to the assister that's where you'd see Scholes' influence. Even when Scholes played higher up the pitch his job was to contribute to the build up and then get in the box, rather than to be the one playing the final ball. In 2002/3 season you saw a fair few goals where Scholes started and finished the move, he scored 14 and assisted 4 in 31 league games.
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So this is what we’re going with? hyperbolic quotes from ex team members and “legends”? You think Scholes bottom level wasn’t noticeable? You honestly think that people watching Scholes having a bad game couldn’t tell he was having a bad game because Schmeichel had a cute quote?
Fair enough. I may be remembering wrong, but did Scholes not play a more similar role then in the Ronaldo era when we went through possibly our most successful period in history (with Carrick and Hargreaves joining him in a midfield three)? If that’s the case I think the point still stands. Pogba is consistently getting assists and creating chances via breath taking, defence-splitting passes.
Just to add, I generally agree with what you say about Scholes ability to control a game through his passing ability, but I also think this is more of a mental strength i.e. decision making, rather than having better passing ability/technique, if that makes sense.
Scholes sometimes had ineffective games too. Brilliant but lets not act like he never did anyhing wrong both on and off the field.
Pogba is a different tyoe of player to Scholes so the comparison is pointless.
Pogba is a different tyoe of player to Scholes so the comparison is pointless.
Plenty of players have had more talent than Paul Scholes, but very few have performed consistently at such a high level for such a long period of time. Not sure why you think there's a question if consistency should matter or not, consistency is everything in football. In terms of success, it depends, Steven Gerrard is still considered one of the greatest midfielders England has ever had.
Not sure why anyone would be bothered about him not being unanimously recognised, plenty of players aren't for various reasons, it's cherry picking criterias.
Scholes was key to our football for several reasons, one of them being the ability to dictate the tempo we played in, if we struggled to hold on to the ball he'd slow the tempo down and give us a bit of breathing space, if we were putting the opposition under pressure he'd make sure the ball was moving as quickly as possible to take advantage. You'd very rarely see Paul Scholes get caught with the ball at his feet, and you'd rarely see him pass the ball to a teammate that was under pressure. Another reason was his ability to pull out some of the most absurd passes i've ever seen. I don't think people fully understand how difficult it is to get those diagonal balls spot on, how narrow the pitch actually is, when you see the match on the TV you get the impression that it's huge and there's plenty of space, the diagonal passes Paul Scholes consistently sprayed around with such pace, i don't think there's any players currently playing that consistently pull those off. Plenty can hit diagonal passes, just with much more air under them, less pace, makes it easier for the opposition to get back in position. Year after year he was pinging those balls out to either side.
1:44 is sublime. Simple pass to a teammate instead of something fancy, instantly moves into position to receive the ball again, takes a split second to see the opening for a quick one two and then a sublime pass
The lob where he took the piss out of a solid Milan defense, porn on a stick.
I love Pogba and i reckon he's mint, but he still has his obvious flaws. If he adds the maturity to pick the right passes even thought it won't end up in a youtube compilation, know when to hold on to the ball and when to shift it quickly, he can become unstoppable. At times he has too much faith in his natural strength, allows oppositional players to come on a bit too close so he can attempt to shrug them off and run with the ball.
Hargreaves played something like 35 games in the 2007/8 season and maybe a game in each of the next two. He was generally a rotation player, or filling in where needed like at right back against Barca in the UCL semis or tasked to do a specific job like right midfield against Chelsea in the final. I can't remember him, Carrick and Scholes ever playing in a proper midfield three, although it may have happened in the odd game.
As for the passing/mental strength thing, I totally get what you mean. You get players like Gerrard who had the ability to put the ball where he wanted it but often made poor decisions and then you have players like Keane who didn't have the same technical ability but made great decisions on the ball and used it very well.
As that Barcelona team demonstrated perfectly, passing the ball is a tactic in itself now, rather than just a way to get the ball further up the field or to your best player. The way a team moves the ball is a very important aspect of breaking teams down, as well as a very important aspect of stopping the other team scoring. That's why I think the best passers are those who have good technical ability but also the nous to apply it tactically.
If we had RvN leading the line, Pogba might rack up 5 assists per game under Ole.
I didn’t say consistency didn’t matter. I said that if we get to a position where people are not banging on about Pogba’s consistency, then there will be less doubt that he’s better than Scholes I think.
I also agree with your point about pass selection and all of that, but disagree with the exaggerated notion on here that Pogba can only pass a ball 50 yards, but can’t pass it 5. I don’t agree that there’s a particular problem with his short passing at all. He does plenty of 5 yard passes, moves into space, picks it back up and then goes again. He keeps possession for us under pressure quite brilliantly. Consistently and in every game. There’s actually nothing wrong with his shorter passing. He may give it away two or three times a game, but it’s not like he is Carlos Sanchez (that Colombian midfielder is a terrible footballer). Next game, watch him for his short passing specifically. Scholes fancy assist against Milan was great, and is talked about til’ today, but it’s certainly more an assist ‘that Paul Pogba’ would be proud of than this constant ‘Scholes would be proud’ of every assist he makes thing is warranted. That stuff is what Pogba does every game. For me, Pogba plays the role of old Scholes and young Scholes in one in our team.
And I don’t think we should go into diagonal passes as some sort of point Scholes over Pogba. Scholes was a fantastic diagonal passer. He invented the ‘Valencia pass’ that Rooney played every week. Pogba takes the piss with this though. He’ll do them left foot, right foot, inside and outside of the foot, on the volley, off the ground. I don’t think that part of his game can be called into question.
Scholes was great and got 14 goals and 4 assists in his one season playing off the striker. Doesn’t Pogba have 10 league goals already and about 3 times the assists?
But I could easily go the other way anyway. Why not focus on his ability to drive/dribble and take 3 players out of the game which Scholes couldn’t? Or Pogba’s two-footedness that Scholes didn’t have? It’s by no means all one way.
And I don’t think that’s a fair dismissal either. To simply just put it down to some sort of mystery that Scholes wasn’t recognised (unanimously) as the PL’s best ever midfielder. We had Schmeichel who is typically seen as the best ever. Ronaldo was the undisputed best.
I’d say the more likely reason why there is no such consensus over Scholes is because Gerrard, Lampard, Vieira and Keane were also great PL midfielders. I’d also add Yaya to the conversation, and I think that for a season at least, a young Fabregas was the best midfielder in the PL and better than Scholes too, although not with the same longevity.
So unless the PL had the top 5 midfielders of all time, I think it’s a reach to imply that Scholes was the best midfielder ever, which I have seen many times on here. The fact is, if you asked a panel if he was better than Gerrard or Lampard, many would say no. This forum spent many years (naturally) implying Gerrard isn’t a particularly good player at all. His game was always picked at to find so many faults, and then when the Gerrard/Scholes debate came up, he was just dismissed as ‘not being a midfielder’ at all! I don’t think it’s a most credible assessment.
Again, Scholes was fabulous. I’d have him in the group of the very best PL midfielders. He had rare Spanish-like ability to move the ball around for English midfielders. He set the standard, but that standard was met by Lampard and Gerrard over time. I’d split those three equally. I think the Fabregas of I think his final season at Arsenal was a better midfielder than Scholes. But it was just a season, and then things weren’t the same at a Barcelona. But he had the short passing stuff we all love, but was far more creative too, his final pass was much better than Scholes I believe, and he also scored a lot of goals that year. Hard to compare Yaya directly I know, but I’ve never seen a midfielder have the impact and dominance he did over a season.
Great debate Pogs v Scholes. Discussions about players from different eras never work in any sport cause these are just too many contributal factors. For me I really struggle with comparing Utd players from an era where we dominated everything to one which we have witnessed a collection of the poorest signings and the worst football I've watched for decades. Whether Scholes was better than Pogs, I don't know but what I know 100% for sure is it was easier for him to be better with Stam, Keano, Giggs, Becks, Dwight, Yorke, Rooney, CR7, RVN, Cole, Tevez et al and SAF managing it, than the shower of shite that at times been around Pogs inc the managers.....
We need to tie him down to a longer contract regardless of wages. It offers either the player for an additional X amount of years or gives us huge bargaining power should Madrid or Barcelona fancy and chance to try sign him.
Obvious we would much prefer the former of the two.
Obvious we would much prefer the former of the two.
If he stays fit I can see him reaching 20 goals and 20 assists. When was the last time one of our players reached those numbers?
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