[Litch]

In the short term He may have to give them some time to try and redeem themselves.

....But Pogba doesn't deserve the same?

 

[laughtersassassin]

He doesn't give two shits, that's why he is on the bench.

He gives more than Golden boy matic.

 

[11101]

My idea about Pogba is he's the cherry on the cake, someone you invest in when you have quality all around and want to inject more of it into your team, not someone you buy to build the team around. I'm pretty sure he's going to be great about in PSG, Madrid or Barca as he'll provide them with exactly what they need, which is more quality. That's how Juve and France used him, but we bought him basing on making him the leading icon of the team and build everything around his form, so I agree with one of your points that it was our own fault. We bought the cherry on the cake and expected it to be the cake itself. I don't think we'll ever get the best of Pogba till we have everything in the team perfect, but that's a problem, you can't pay 90m to expect to pay even 250-300m money to get him to be consistent. It's our own fault yeah.

He is definitely the cherry on top but i don't think we need a team of superstars around him. With proper man management and a functioning system of play he will give a lot more than he is now. Hes clearly someone who plays on instinct and needs to know who is going to run where as soon as the ball comes to him. For example in the World Cup he always knew that pass down the right channel was on for Mbappe, he hardly even needed to look. We have so many different styles of player in this club and so many different lineups each week, he's never going to get that consistency here. There is literally nothing consistent in the club at the moment so i don't know why we expect Pogba to be any different. Then you have Mourinho picking a fight with him, as he so often does, and its hard to envisage a worse environment for a player like that work in.

At the end of it all he's a midfielder, he cant win games on his own. He can only respond to what his forwards are doing in front of him, or the positions the midfielders around him are taking up. If they're all changing every week he's helpless out there.

 

[edgar allan]

....But Pogba doesn't deserve the same?

He will likely get another chance too, the chances of a change in mindset look slim.

 

[TheGame]

Cannot believe he isn’t playing with our current options. Mourinho needs to put his differences aside and play him. It’s absolute madness.

 

[edgar allan]

He gives more than Golden boy matic.

No Matic plays shite, Pogba just doesn't give one.
I haven't seen Matic downing tools and huffing during a game yet.

 

[el3mel]

He is definitely the cherry on top but i don't think we need a team of superstars around him. With proper man management and a functioning system of play he will give a lot more than he is now. Hes clearly someone who plays on instinct and needs to know who is going to run where as soon as the ball comes to him. For example in the World Cup he always knew that pass down the right channel was on for Mbappe, he hardly even needed to look. We have so many different styles of player in this club and so many different lineups each week, he's never going to get that consistency here. There is literally nothing consistent in the club at the moment so i don't know why we expect Pogba to be any different. Then you have Mourinho picking a fight with him, as he so often does, and its hard to envisage a worse environment for a player like that work in.

At the end of it all he's a midfielder, he cant win games on his own. He can only respond to what his forwards are doing in front of him, or the positions the midfielders around him are taking up. If they're all changing every week he's helpless out there.

I'll never question his quality as a player on general but I'm questioning his ability to put the same level of focus 40-50 games a season. He deserves another chance under a new manager for sure (that if he wants to stay and play in Europe League again anyway) but I want him to be consistent. That's everyone's problem with him. We all know on his day he's unplayable, the only problem you never know if this is going to happen today or not, and midfield is one of these positions that consistency is a very important aspect as it controls the whole pitch and connects defense with offense.

Anyway hopefully it works with the next manager.

 

[laughtersassassin]

No Matic plays shite, Pogba just doesn't give one.
I haven't seen Matic downing tools and huffing during a game yet.

He can't down tools as his peak performance is too shit to notice.

 

[lsd]

No Matic plays shite, Pogba just doesn't give one.
I haven't seen Matic downing tools and huffing during a game yet.

This is why we can't get rid of Jose .

He has pulled off the same trick he did at Chelsea making fans believe Hazard and Fabregas were to blame and were not trying .

Now he has convinced Utd fans again he is not to blame he is doing all he can but the likes of Pogba and Valencia and co are plotting against him and refusing to try and win .

It's nonsense now like it was then but it divide the fans which is what Jose wants

 

[Litch]

He will likely get another chance too, the chances of a change in mindset look slim.

Mindset? is that what you know or what you think? There is absolutely nothing said from previous managers that there was any issues with his mindset aside from Jose. Are you prepared to believe Jose?

 

[Litch]

This is why we can't get rid of Jose .

He has pulled off the same trick he did at Chelsea making fans believe Hazard and Fabregas were to blame and were not trying .

Now he has convinced Utd fans again he is not to blame he is doing all he can but the likes of Pogba and Valencia and co are plotting against him and refusing to try and win .

It's nonsense now like it was then but it divide the fans which is what Jose wants

Did the same at Madrid too...

 

[Dan600]

To aid the Pogba debate I've just calculated our record with/without Pogba to the present day. The games without Pogba are also from a much smaller sample, so that can skew the results slightly.

I've included all Champion's League Games over the last 2 years, plus Premier League Games, and ignored League Cup, FA Cup and Europa League, due to squad rotation in these competitions.

TOTAL GAMES WITH POGBA
PLAYED: 73
WINS: 41 (56.2%)
DRAWS: 20
LOSSES: 12 (16.4%)
GOAL DIF: +57 (+0.781 per game)

TOTAL GAMES WITHOUT POGBA
PLAYED: 34
WINS: 17 (50%)
DRAWS: 8
LOSSES: 9 (26.5%)
GOAL DIF:+19 (+0.559 per game)


​

 

[edgar allan]

Mindset? is that what you know or what you think? There is absolutely nothing said from previous managers that there was any issues with his mindset aside from Jose. Are you prepared to believe Jose?

I don't believe a word that Jose says and would drive him to the airport in the morning.

I am only talking about Pogba's lack of effort on the pitch, that is unforgivable no matter what is going on with the manager in the background

 

[Negan]

Both him and Mourinho need to go. I’m sick of the circus surrounding them. We’ve become a laughing stock ffs.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Both him and Mourinho need to go. I’m sick of the circus surrounding them. We’ve become a laughing stock ffs.

Jose is the circus.

 

[lsd]

Did the same at Madrid too...

True and he keeps getting away with it . You would just think fans would see through it now I stead of falling for it

 

[edgar allan]

This is why we can't get rid of Jose .

He has pulled off the same trick he did at Chelsea making fans believe Hazard and Fabregas were to blame and were not trying .

Now he has convinced Utd fans again he is not to blame he is doing all he can but the likes of Pogba and Valencia and co are plotting against him and refusing to try and win .

It's nonsense now like it was then but it divide the fans which is what Jose wants

Jose is off course to blame and should be made take full responsibility, Pogba should take responsibility for his lack of effort on the pitch also.

 

[lsd]

Jose is off course to blame and should be made take full responsibility, Pogba should take responsibility for his lack of effort on the pitch also.

You clearly have not watched Pogba throughout his career if you think he should be sprinting all over the pitch making tackles and bleeding for the cause .

He is playing the same way he has always done sometimes it looks bad when nothing comes off him but that's not down to lack of effort, that happens .

Put him a team with better players around him than we currently have a striker that makes the runs a top striker should a manager that doesn't want to publicly blame him every time a drop of rain falls and he will shine a lot more often .

Expecting him to be a mixture of Keane scholes and Viera though and you are going to disappointed

 

[Negan]

Jose is the circus.

It’s Pogba.

When he plays, it’s all about what he does or doesn’t do.

When he doesn’t play, the story is “Why isn’t he playing?”...

I for one, am sick of it. I’m sick of his dancing, I’m sick of his haircuts and adverts and I’m sick of the media/social media obsession he’s got. The man is a narcissist and needs to grow up IMO.

If we sold him in January and spent the money on two reliable CMs who are half as talented as he is and give more of a feck... I’d do it in a heartbeat. Any two of Doucoure, Gueye, Seri, Kondogbia, Milinkovic-Savic or Neves would be a massive improvement.

 

[laughtersassassin]

It’s Pogba.

When he plays, it’s all about what he does or doesn’t do.

When he doesn’t play, the story is “Why isn’t he playing?”...

I for one, am sick of it. I’m sick of his dancing, I’m sick of his haircuts and adverts and I’m sick of the media/social media obsession he’s got. The man is a narcissist and needs to grow up IMO.

If we sold him in January and spent the money on two reliable CMs who are half as talented as he is and give more of a feck... I’d do it in a heartbeat. Any two of Doucoure, Gueye, Seri, Kondogbia, Milinkovic-Savic or Neves would be a massive improvement.

Mate, you are blind. He doesn't ask for there to be a story about him. It's a story as he is our best player bar De Gea and Jose is the first manager is his career to not like him or get the best out of him. Jose made him the scapegoat. Jose ruins the team. Jose is the virus. Jose is the circus.

We don't have a single player that is good under him.

 

[edgar allan]

You clearly have not watched Pogba throughout his career if you think he should be sprinting all over the pitch making tackles and bleeding for the cause .

He is playing the same way he has always done sometimes it looks bad when nothing comes off him but that's not down to lack of effort, that happens .

Put him a team with better players around him than we currently have a striker that makes the runs a top striker should a manager that doesn't want to publicly blame him every time a drop of rain falls and he will shine a lot more often .

Expecting him to be a mixture of Keane scholes and Viera though and you are going to disappointed

All players have to work hard and if you are having a bad day and nothing is coming off for you, you work harder.

In his first half of last season he had many poor games but I would never have levelled the accusation that he wasn't giving his all, not any longer.
You are right ,he may well play better in an improved team, many of our players now would play better if he put a bit more effort in.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Jose's handling of Pogba has been a disgrace.

He was actually playing well this season, before our clown manager decided to make an example of him(after 1 poor game) and turn him against our fans.

 

[laughtersassassin]

All players have to work hard and if you are having a bad day and nothing is coming off for you, you work harder.

In his first half of last season he had many poor games but I would never have levelled the accusation that he wasn't giving his all, not any longer.
You are right ,he may well play better in an improved team, many of our players now would play better if he put a bit more effort in.

Just so you know Pogba covers the 3rd most ground per 90 minutes in our team. Only Lingard and Fred ahead of him so I hope you shit on and call our other players lazy too. It is only fair.

 

[edgar allan]

Just so you know Pogba covers the 3rd most ground per 90 minutes in our team. Only Lingard and Fred ahead of him so I hope you shit on and call our other players lazy too. It is only fair.

Jogging up and down the pitch all night will get you plenty of ground.

 

[Baxter]

It’s Pogba.

When he plays, it’s all about what he does or doesn’t do.

When he doesn’t play, the story is “Why isn’t he playing?”...

I for one, am sick of it. I’m sick of his dancing, I’m sick of his haircuts and adverts and I’m sick of the media/social media obsession he’s got. The man is a narcissist and needs to grow up IMO.

If we sold him in January and spent the money on two reliable CMs who are half as talented as he is and give more of a feck... I’d do it in a heartbeat. Any two of Doucoure, Gueye, Seri, Kondogbia, Milinkovic-Savic or Neves would be a massive improvement.

We could sign 10 midfielders, and Jose would still prefer Fellaini and Matic.

 

[Morpheus 7]

fecking Pogba haters chatting shite in here as usual, I suppose it was his fault again today. He's our best outfield player, there really is know arguing this. When I say outfield that doesn't include Dave. He's been a scapegoat for bad results, imagine playing with Matic and Fellaini and you look up and Lukaku is the only lump up there. Then you get dropped and Scott is ahead of you, integral to a WC winning side to this a few months. Yeah his performances haven't been amazing, at least he is trying stuff. Who's been good this year so far Lindelof and Martial? If he was at any of the other top four sides he would be a different player. You could say that for many of our players. The agenda against him started by Jose is incredible.

 

[Dan600]

As the stats show above, on the whole we play better when Pogba is in the time, whether you like him and his image or not.

 

[edgar allan]

fecking Pogba haters chatting shite in here as usual, I suppose it was his fault again today. He's our best outfield player, there really is know arguing this. When I say outfield that doesn't include Dave. He's been a scapegoat for bad results, imagine playing with Matic and Fellaini and you look up and Lukaku is the only lump up there. Then you get dropped and Scott is ahead of you, integral to a WC winning side to this a few months. Yeah his performances haven't been amazing, at least he is trying stuff. Who's been good this year so far Lindelof and Martial? If he was at any of the other top four sides he would be a different player. You could say that for many of our players. The agenda against him started by Jose is incredible.

Not amazing but poor. Just like the rest of the team.

 

[kidbob]

A 'virus' is something that can be fought off. What we have is terminal and it ain't anyone on the pitch making us that way. Give me Pogba's positiveness and excitement over that sullen prick. Turns out the 'virus' wasn't trying to harm the club but was a last ditch attempt at fighting off the cancer brought in to finish us off.

Pogba may have left this club but he spent long enough here to learn what it was about. Jose was brought in by a rich Russian to take us down at all costs and ironically he has been even more effective for Chelsea as our manager than he was as their's against us in the long run.

I just hope we see Pogba's talents (and the rest of the teams) under a proper United coach before we see them leave, although I'm losing faith in that by the day.

Anyone in this thread still arguing against him tell me if we missed a player with the talent to find a pass today? Without him did we stop Liverpool being effective going forward? Face it, with Pogba on the field we might be capable of the amazing, without him we can't even park the bus.

 

[Bwuk]

If anyone thinks we are a better side without Pogba than with, then they don’t have a clue about football.

Embarrassing playing a midfield of Fellaini and Matic.

 

[Jeppers7]

Doesn't seem to me that the manager is escaping criticism either is he ?

I slaughter my share of players and the manager as well. The fact that some don't accept criticism of certain players in their threads, not just Pogba but some other players, that's not really my problem imo if you ask me. I treat everyone of the players and managers the same way. You do your job you get praise, you do shite you get the slack, players or managers. I didn't come to this thread after the match because he didn't play today, but I replied on certain point JPRouve made that seems he's misunderstanding the reason of criticism Pogba is getting, nothing more, nothing less.

Context is always important

 

[snk123]

People who are shitting on Pogba should go watch the couple of matches in which out of favor Pogba and Martial saved Mourinho's job.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

We had a £100 million player on our bench, not injured, for a game the magnitude of Liverpool vs Manchester United, and we didn't bring him on at all.

If you don't play him in these type of games, then you don't play him at all and you sell him.

Fact.

 

[Bwuk]

We had a £100 million player on our bench, not injured, for a game the magnitude of Liverpool vs Manchester United, and we didn't bring him on at all.

If you don't play him in these type of games, then you don't play him at all and you sell him.

Fact.

Yes, let’s sell him and continue with Fellaini, Matic and Herrera.

He’s our best midfielder by miles, this whole situation is ridiculous. Jose needs to feck off asapZ

 

[crackers0seven]

Forget about pp, utd jose and pp need to go.club is fecked with dopes like that

 

[11101]

I'll never question his quality as a player on general but I'm questioning his ability to put the same level of focus 40-50 games a season. He deserves another chance under a new manager for sure (that if he wants to stay and play in Europe League again anyway) but I want him to be consistent. That's everyone's problem with him. We all know on his day he's unplayable, the only problem you never know if this is going to happen today or not, and midfield is one of these positions that consistency is a very important aspect as it controls the whole pitch and connects defense with offense.

Anyway hopefully it works with the next manager.

I just think we cant blame him for being inconsistent when everything around him, the midfield, the team and everything within the club is inconsistent too.

 

[frookydinho]

Genuinely dont understand why people are against Pogba..

Where has he shown this disgusting attitude? Because he tries stuff in games that dont come off?

Pogba isnt the reason why we are 19 points behind Liverpool.

Its the fraud managing the club

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Yes, let’s sell him and continue with Fellaini, Matic and Herrera.

He’s our best midfielder by miles, this whole situation is ridiculous. Jose needs to feck off asapZ

Which is what I'm saying - if he doesn't play him in these type of games, then sell him and use the money on getting us a midfielder that Jose actually wants.

If we're keeping Jose then Pogba needs to do one. They are both as toxic as each other.

 

[shamans]

People are forgetting Pogba is the 25 year old here. Jose is the manager. Football players can be troublesome at times and it's up to the managers how they get the best of them.

Listen to Rooney talking about SAF. He said SAF would be extremely direct with me at the dressing room but if he wanted to tell something to Nani he would say it either to me or someone else. He knew Nani didn't like it if it was straight directed to him.

People think SAF was some sort of "RESPECT ME AND OBEY MY WORDS OR YOU'RE DONE" dictator type manager but in reality he was a master that knew how to elevate his players (and was more often then not right).

Mourinho is just past it. He still think everyone should be a John Terry/Frank Lampard suck up.

 

[Ali Dia]

I would always have previously backed the manager over any player and pogba is frustrating as hell and clearly doesn’t want to be here and seems to be very disruptive but Jose is SO negative and defeated and it’s rubbing off on everyone. I used to think he was the man to lead us forward but now I want him gone ASAP. Jose first, Woodward next and then hopefully the glazers. I expect pogba to leave at the end of the season whoever is in charge next year and I couldn’t care less. If he doesn’t want to be here then off with him too.