New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford | Aim is to build 100k seater stadium

Would you rather a new stadium or rebuild Old Trafford?

  • New stadium

    Votes: 1,033 57.2%

  • Rebuild Old Trafford

    Votes: 772 42.8%
  • Total voters
    1,805
The Purley King said:
We could easily sell another 40k season tickets no? Given the current waiting list
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I doubt it. The waiting list has returned since Covid to be fair but I'd be bowled over if there were even half the 40k you've suggested on the list genuinely wanting to buy one.
 
Paul Scholes (with Nicky Butt in the Manchester-Evening-News-Podcast) about this topic......

“The stadium is behind so many clubs. We’ve spoken before about the history of the club, Old Trafford and what has happened there, but if you look in 20 years and we have an amazing stadium, I don’t think people will talk about it.

“They need to have a stadium that fits the club because it’s fallen behind.

“I’d probably be in favour of knocking it down and going again. As much as you don’t want that to happen because of everything that has happened there in your life, but as Nicky said, if you add bits all the time as they have done with the training ground, it’s not going to be right.”
 
matherto said:
No but surely it’s only as complicated as building over a road and probably less than over a train/tramline, just leave a tunnel and fortify around it?
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Building over a river/canal is simple enough and happens all the time. But I've no idea if putting a 100k seater stadium on it is feasible.
 
MancunianAngels said:
We wouldn't sell out 100k every week unless there was a significant reduction in ticket prices.

We'd struggle to sell 40,000 individual tickets for matches outside the top 6/7.
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Really? I see week in week out 73k or more in attendance for most games. I flew 13 hours to try to catch a match in old Trafford and so many tickets were sold out for many of the matches.
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
That's a blatant lie. Our average attendance for 2023/2024 was 73,534. As per multiple stats websites.
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What's a lie? We have 50,000ish season ticket holders. We give at least 2,000 tickets out to away fans. So we probably sell around 20,000 individual tickets for most matches

If we extended the ground to 100,000, I doubt we'd sell out as that would mean selling another 25,000 tickets for most matches. Maybe for "the big 6" matches but it would be a struggle beyond that. Especially for midweek matches.
 
moodyred said:
Really? I see week in week out 73k or more in attendance for most games. I flew 13 hours to try to catch a match in old Trafford and so many tickets were sold out for many of the matches.
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Again, as per the comment above. 73 - 76,000 tickets is great but another 25,000 tickets would be a lot.

Weekend home matches against the bigger teams would be doable. Less so, midweek matches against the bottom half unless we reduced ticket prices.
 
JB7 said:
I doubt it. The waiting list has returned since Covid to be fair but I'd be bowled over if there were even half the 40k you've suggested on the list genuinely wanting to buy one.
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Yeah. The waiting list has always been something of an exaggeration. There has been plenty of opportunities to buy one over the last few years. Some have been on the waiting list for years but are holding out for a seat in a particular part of the ground.

My mate was a member for a year and was offered a season ticket around April/May for the following season.
 
100k wouldn't sell out every week, but that's ok. But also, if we improved and started being in the title hunt again, it would have a much better chance of being full capacity for most league games.

To be fair if we managed to get more games on general sale, which you'd think would happen with such a bump in capacity, they'd certainly be hoovered up most of the time, unless midweek against bottom table teams maybe.

Either way making it 100k I'm not against, anymore feels a bit unnecessary.
 
Judas said:
100k wouldn't sell out every week, but that's ok. But also, if we improved and started being in the title hunt again, it would have a much better chance of being full capacity for most league games.

To be fair if we managed to get more games on general sale, which you'd think would happen with such a bump in capacity, they'd certainly be hoovered up most of the time, unless midweek against bottom table teams maybe.

Either way making it 100k I'm not against, anymore feels a bit unnecessary.
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The key is pricing.

There would ultimately be a limit to how many times that we'd sell 40-50k individual match tickets if there was another price increase (which feels sadly inevitable once this project has been complete.)

Members would pick and choose games if the average price was £50/£60 +.

The increase in European games is only gonna add to that especially if we're back in the Champions League regularly.
 
matherto said:
There’s no chance we’re building over the railway line.

We’ll be moving north east away from it.

The railway line is the reason the south stand has never been expanded and the exact reason why we’d be rebuilding. Makes zero sense to rebuild in the same spot because of that constraint.
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As someone who has (unfortunately) never been to Manchester or Old Trafford, is it possible to reroute the railway line slightly further away?
 
matherto said:
There’s no chance we’re building over the railway line.

We’ll be moving north east away from it.

The railway line is the reason the south stand has never been expanded and the exact reason why we’d be rebuilding. Makes zero sense to rebuild in the same spot because of that constraint.
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Why? It's hardly difficult these days. Maybe in the 80's/90's it was an issue, but feck me, there's a mile high building built on fecking sand in Dubai, I think building over a railway is easy enough.
 
Big Andy said:
Why? It's hardly difficult these days. Maybe in the 80's/90's it was an issue, but feck me, there's a mile high building built on fecking sand in Dubai, I think building over a railway is easy enough.
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Yep it’ll be expensive and disruptive while it’s being done but it’s clearly achievable now.
 
Big Andy said:
Why? It's hardly difficult these days. Maybe in the 80's/90's it was an issue, but feck me, there's a mile high building built on fecking sand in Dubai, I think building over a railway is easy enough.
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I happened to catch a glimpse of Michael Portilos Great Railway Journeys on TV the other night, wasn't planning on watching it, but he was in Chicago at Grand Central Station.
One of the points he made, was that the railway lines in the center of the city, that come out from Grand Central Station, all run along street level and the skyscrapers have all had to be built on top of them, to accommodate them. This was done years ago and any new buildings have to comply if they're going to be built over the lines. They don't move the existing track at all by the looks of it.
So I don't see why it isn't doable for United to do the same with a new stadium.
 
BabySinclair said:
Paul Scholes (with Nicky Butt in the Manchester-Evening-News-Podcast) about this topic......

“The stadium is behind so many clubs. We’ve spoken before about the history of the club, Old Trafford and what has happened there, but if you look in 20 years and we have an amazing stadium, I don’t think people will talk about it.

“They need to have a stadium that fits the club because it’s fallen behind.

“I’d probably be in favour of knocking it down and going again. As much as you don’t want that to happen because of everything that has happened there in your life, but as Nicky said, if you add bits all the time as they have done with the training ground, it’s not going to be right.”
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When did this narrative start? One of the stands is miles behind for well documented reasons. The rest of the stadium is brilliant and it remains the biggest stadium in the league. When did leather seats and the ability to host light shows, concerts of NFL games become the benchmark for a great football stadium? You can feel the history when inside OT. I’m all for a new stadium by the way but the narrative it’s some shit outdated stadium is being pushed too hard because we’ve fallen behind in everything else.
 
Offside said:
When did this narrative start? One of the stands is miles behind for well documented reasons. The rest of the stadium is brilliant and it remains the biggest stadium in the league. When did leather seats and the ability to host light shows, concerts of NFL games become the benchmark for a great football stadium? You can feel the history when inside OT. I’m all for a new stadium by the way but the narrative it’s some shit outdated stadium is being pushed too hard because we’ve fallen behind in everything else.
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There are a good 10k seats in the upper stretches of the SAF stand and its quadrants that are absolutely dogshit. I was up in the NE Quad for the first time for the Fulham game and I understood what people who don't get tickets in the Stretford End or in the lower tiers have been saying.

The roof not only impedes the view, but totally blocks any sound and atmosphere. You feel like you're sat in a walled off area with a few hundred people, watching football through a letterbox.

If it's possible to build up over the tracks and replace the roof entirely then I'm all for it. But if that approach isn't feasible, then building a best in class stadium, befitting of a club like United is fine by me too.
 
MancunianAngels said:
Again, as per the comment above. 73 - 76,000 tickets is great but another 25,000 tickets would be a lot.

Weekend home matches against the bigger teams would be doable. Less so, midweek matches against the bottom half unless we reduced ticket prices.
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I live in Warsaw, if I can buy a ticket for an odd game in a official manner I would go to 3-4 games a year at least. I can imagine there hundreds of people like me
 
If Ratcliffe is funding this rebuild/redevelopment of the stadium surely it must mean he’s planning total control of United in the not too distant, though the way all these articles are writen it sounds like he already is.

I’d go with new big massive feck off stadium with bigger cheese rooms than wookie hole.
 
MancunianAngels said:
What's a lie? We have 50,000ish season ticket holders. We give at least 2,000 tickets out to away fans. So we probably sell around 20,000 individual tickets for most matches

If we extended the ground to 100,000, I doubt we'd sell out as that would mean selling another 25,000 tickets for most matches. Maybe for "the big 6" matches but it would be a struggle beyond that. Especially for midweek matches.
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We border a sell out in every game, including against bottom 6.

The season ticket waiting list no longer is taking names. There are 120,000 people on that list.

If we extended the ground we could offer 30000 more Season tickets and they'll get nabbed up immediately. Still leaves plenty tickets for tourists, one offs and cheeky away fans. Would be no surprise to me if we average 98K
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
We border a sell out in every game, including against bottom 6.

The season ticket waiting list no longer is taking names. There are 120,000 people on that list.

If we extended the ground we could offer 30000 more Season tickets and they'll get nabbed up immediately. Still leaves plenty tickets for tourists, one offs and cheeky away fans. Would be no surprise to me if we average 98K
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I think we’d easily sell 75,000 season tickets, they’d be snapped up.
Used to be so easy to grab one, but a nightmare the past few years. Certainly the ability to easily share it with friends has made them so much more desirable.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I think we’d easily sell 75,000 season tickets, they’d be snapped up.
Used to be so easy to grab one, but a nightmare the past few years. Certainly the ability to easily share it with friends has made them so much more desirable.
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Exactly, I am quite surprised to see people say we wouldn't sell out. We average the highest attendance anyway, which means we currently sell out OT.

People saying mid week wouldn't sell out? we sold out a third round League cup game against Barnsley, I am sure we will sell out CL games too if we get there.

The current ticketing system where tickets are all snapped up months prior to games.
 
Coops73 said:
If Ratcliffe is funding this rebuild/redevelopment of the stadium surely it must mean he’s planning total control of United in the not too distant, though the way all these articles are writen it sounds like he already is.

I’d go with new big massive feck off stadium with bigger cheese rooms than wookie hole.
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Common sense would definitely lead to this conclusion. Let's see what plays out with the shareholding. I do not think Sir Jim will fund the stadium completely, but he could easily contribute 200-300M towards it, which is a healthy chunk and would allow him to obtain the rest in debt financing. I'm also not including the potential proceeds from naming rights, which would offset a portion of the debt service costs.

The stadium CAPEX structure could look something like:
300M from Sir Jim
Additional equity investment from INEOS - 100M/200M
500M from naming rights
1B+ in infrastructure debt

Interesting times!!
 
Big Andy said:
Why? It's hardly difficult these days. Maybe in the 80's/90's it was an issue, but feck me, there's a mile high building built on fecking sand in Dubai, I think building over a railway is easy enough.
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Think about it economically.

It’s not difficult but it’s extremely expensive.

Plus given the space from the pitchside to the railway line, you wouldn’t get that much bigger a stand until you have to build right by the houses on the other side.

If you want to bring OT up to code you’ll be knocking each stand down and rebuilding with wider concourses, more leg room, bigger boxes, etc meaning you effectively end up with a new ground anyway.

So if you end up with a new ground, why not locate it better on the site to maximise size, access and cost effectiveness?

There’s zero reason to keep the pitch where it is knowing you’ll have to build over the railway line. It’s why we’ve never bothered to build over the railway line as it is now.
 
stevoc said:
If they have no money for the Casement rebuild I doubt they'll be releasing any for Old Trafford.
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Very different situation. Casement was given the go ahead many times over the past decade but faced stupid fecking obstacles from local residents, then the costs soared after covid.

I was genuinely amazed they were willing to put money into a GAA stadium at all
 
How do you get the survey? Had official membership a few years ago, and still currently mutv subscriber (was thinking about getting the membership offer this year with mutv but the mutv sub auto-renewed by itself).

Was hoping to get the survey but nothing so far.
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
We border a sell out in every game, including against bottom 6.

The season ticket waiting list no longer is taking names. There are 120,000 people on that list.

If we extended the ground we could offer 30000 more Season tickets and they'll get nabbed up immediately. Still leaves plenty tickets for tourists, one offs and cheeky away fans. Would be no surprise to me if we average 98K
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I bought one of the £250 tickets on a whim to go to the Liverpool game (mistake!). I'd happily go 5-10x times a season if tickets were easier to come by. I've had a season ticket before but it's just a bit far to do regularly when I live and work down south.
 
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