New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford | Aim is to build 100k seater stadium

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Again, I'd also like to the sums here.

Pretty much every club aside from maybe city and Leicester that have moved grounds seemingly use the "we're paying off the ground" excuse when it comes to lack of activity in the transfer market.

I said elsewhere in this thread that Arsenal took 16/17 years in the Emirates before they started to challenge for the title again.

Spurs may be making more money now but again, that's yet to translate into success on the pitch.

You could even argue that it took city getting an entire country buying them before they were able to take advantage of their new facilities etc.

Agree ref City as they didn’t pay for their ground. They only started heavily investing in it once they were taken over. Their ground has never restricted them as a club, quite the opposite.

This bit might make you choke - it cost £112 million to build!

 

[Marwood]

Would be nice if the club communicated more. It's a pretty major issue.

Like is it possible to extend over the railway. I know people here have their opinion but could the club not clear up properly if it's feasible at all.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Can somebody please remind me when we are meant to hear the results of this?

I thought it was by the end of 2024 but that didn’t happen

 

[nmm85]

Can somebody please remind me when we are meant to hear the results of this?

I thought it was by the end of 2024 but that didn’t happen

It was initially but I believe that was extended to this summer.

Edit: just double checked "The club has postponed the final decision until the end of the current season. This delay allows for a comprehensive evaluation of all options and considerations."

 

[LawCharltonBest]

It was initially but I believe that was extended to this summer.

Thanks. I hope we hear soon

I’m tormenting myself with the hope that once this is announced, we might hear something about their long-term ownership plans. It doesn’t make sense in my head that the Glazers remain majority owners through the project when they have no interest in it. Or for INEOS to do all the work just to remain minority owners.

 

[nmm85]

Thanks. I hope we hear soon

I’m tormenting myself with the hope that once this is announced, we might hear something about their long-term ownership plans. It doesn’t make sense in my head that the Glazers remain majority owners through the project when they have no interest in it. Or for INEOS to do all the work just to remain minority owners.

I really hope so too. I mentioned something similar yesterday in the Club Ownership thread. New stadium with lot's of investment + already heavy debt + Glazers just doesn't add up. You would think that Ineos might complete a full takeover and then do something with the debt to put us in a better position to invest in the stadium.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Would be nice if the club communicated more. It's a pretty major issue.

Like is it possible to extend over the railway. I know people here have their opinion but could the club not clear up properly if it's feasible at all.

I don’t think the club need to have provided anything more. They have consulted, and now considering the options.

Of course we would all like to know more detail, but this is a bit of a waiting game.

 

[matherto]

I really hope so too. I mentioned something similar yesterday in the Club Ownership thread. New stadium with lot's of investment + already heavy debt + Glazers just doesn't add up. You would think that Ineos might complete a full takeover and then do something with the debt to put us in a better position to invest in the stadium.

They don’t have the money

 

[SilentWitness]

It’s nothing really special. If you compare the concourse and the facilities at the Spurs stadium they’re worlds apart.

Everton’s new gaff is just a new stadium, which is (in theory but not for me) better than Goodison. Larger stands, unobstructed views, much larger concourses etc. it brings them up to date but from the countless videos I’ve seen it’s nothing phenomenal.

One thing I do like is that it’s got safe standing in the lower tier that was open.

If and when we get a new stadium both ends behind the goal should have this for our standing fans.

It's not really competing with Spurs' stadium. Unless you're in London nothing will.

 

[Utd heap]

It's not really competing with Spurs' stadium. Unless you're in London nothing will.

Spurs built it for NFL and concerts. It's a shit football ground, excellent venue.

A step up from west ham. Awful venue, awful football ground.

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

It's not really competing with Spurs' stadium. Unless you're in London nothing will.

I would hope that ours will. Not so much for holding other events but looking as slick as Spurs stadium does.

The Everton just looks a bit basic on the inside, the stadium and the concourses

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Spurs built it for NFL and concerts. It's a shit football ground, excellent venue.

A step up from west ham. Awful venue, awful football ground.

It’s not at all, it’s fantastic. Have you been there yourself?

The fabled beer cups (filled from the bottom) leak - but otherwise it’s terrific.

 

[Utd heap]

It’s not at all, it’s fantastic. Have you been there yourself?

The fabled beer cups (filled from the bottom) leak - but otherwise it’s terrific.

Yes twice in the away end. Atmosphere is awful. Huge corporate section in middle of their home end behind the goal and rammed with hospitality down the sides.

It's a concert venue, well made.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Yes twice in the away end. Atmosphere is awful. Huge corporate section in middle of their home end behind the goal and rammed with hospitality down the sides.

It's a concert venue, well made.

I’ve been there about a dozen times, about half football (and one rugby game). Mixture of seats, and had no complaints any time. It was especially good in the ‘kop’ style end.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

I’ve been there about a dozen times, about half football (and one rugby game). Mixture of seats, and had no complaints any time. It was especially good in the ‘kop’ style end.

The definition of good is very different depending on who you ask.

I was in the away end on Sunday. The facilities were decent but the whole thing felt a bit soulless.

My priority would always be to stay at OT but if we have to build a new ground, I'd hope we keep some of OT's charm and just build a Wembley/Emirates/Tottenham clone.

I'd even go as far as to say, my ideal new ground would be an almost exact replica of the current ground with maybe a second tier over the South Stand. Use the extra seats and more space to spread capacity about slightly and build bigger concourses. You could easily build a 83-85,000 capacity stadium using that model. Best of both worlds.

 

[SilentWitness]

I would hope that ours will. Not so much for holding other events but looking as slick as Spurs stadium does.

The Everton just looks a bit basic on the inside, the stadium and the concourses

I don't think it looks basic at all but you do you.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The definition of good is very different depending on who you ask.

I was in the away end on Sunday. The facilities were decent but the whole thing felt a bit soulless.

My priority would always be to stay at OT but if we have to build a new ground, I'd hope we keep some of OT's charm and just build a Wembley/Emirates/Tottenham clone.

I'd even go as far as to say, my ideal new ground would be an almost exact replica of the current ground with maybe a second tier over the South Stand. Use the extra seats and more space to spread capacity about slightly and build bigger concourses. You could easily build a 83-85,000 capacity stadium using that model. Best of both worlds.

Of course it’s subjective. Whatever happens at OT some will like it, some won’t. Unless it’s a complete disaster… but I don’t think it will be because there are a lot of learnings from big stadia builds and refurbs over the past 20 years.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Of course it’s subjective. Whatever happens at OT some will like it, some won’t. Unless it’s a complete disaster… but I don’t think it will be because there are a lot of learnings from big stadia builds and refurbs over the past 20 years.

What makes you confident that, after our last 20 years, we will get such a big decision/investment right?

 

[giggs-beckham]

I'm guessing they're exploring the option of doing shit all

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

What makes you confident that, after our last 20 years, we will get such a big decision/investment right?

It’s easy to get wrong if you are the first. But given there are dozens of large stadia built in the last 20 years, and there is a lot of research out there it’s not difficult to achieve.

The issue for United since the glazers is that they haven’t invested anything in infrastructure, bar minimum stadium changes and a repaint here nd there.

Carrington (when completed) will give us an idea of how Inios manage a new stadium.

 

[Rams]

Spurs built it for NFL and concerts. It's a shit football ground, excellent venue.

A step up from west ham. Awful venue, awful football ground.

Sorry, but West Ham’s great (not the surrounding area, but the stadium itself). The atmosphere is top class for a new stadium and the views of pitch are brilliant everywhere. Really well designed.

 

[RedIan]

£1 billion in debt, wheres the money coming from?

 

[Marwood]

I don’t think the club need to have provided anything more. They have consulted, and now considering the options.

Of course we would all like to know more detail, but this is a bit of a waiting game.

True they don't need to. They don't need to consult with fans and say a word about anything I suppose.

But I think they still should, at least to some extent. Get the fans on board, build a relationship. More important than ever. Feels like we're treated as customers rather than the lifelong fans who sustain the club.

 

[Marwood]

£1 billion in debt, wheres the money coming from?

Yeah that's what I don't get.

I'm no financial mind but given the debt, the money the first XI needs, how is a new stadium funded. Surely the first thing to do is sort the mess we're in financially then look at building options.

 

[JB7]

Sorry, but West Ham’s great (not the surrounding area, but the stadium itself). The atmosphere is top class for a new stadium and the views of pitch are brilliant everywhere. Really well designed.

No white text?

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I'm not that arsed about it really. I have the memories of my first game at Old Trafford in 1969, and it is vastly different to all the permutations of it since. I was in the open end (scoreboard) in the rain, so what is the constant grumbling about leaky roofs,

New stadium/revamped stadium ... it doesn't really matter. Just give me a team with heart and pride.

This is what I want aswell, first and foremost. New stadium or not is the least of my worries right now.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

True they don't need to. They don't need to consult with fans and say a word about anything I suppose.

But I think they still should, at least to some extent. Get the fans on board, build a relationship. More important than ever. Feels like we're treated as customers rather than the lifelong fans who sustain the club.

They had an initial consultation, and now considering the options. My point is more, that until they work through those options, and present a plan - we don’t need to be involved in a running commentary.

We definitely need to more information, but at the right time.

 

[Infra-red]

Yeah that's what I don't get.

I'm no financial mind but given the debt, the money the first XI needs, how is a new stadium funded. Surely the first thing to do is sort the mess we're in financially then look at building options.

We have been waiting for information on this since the project was originally mooted. United cannot borrow the money themselves, simply because the debt servicing (anything from £120m - £200m per year on a loan this size) would be crippling.

One hopes that the answer might be tied in with the ownership question and that this might finally see the Glazers leave the club.

 

[Rams]

No white text?

The acoustics & views are great there! Much better than many new stadium. Clever piece of designing. Surrounding area is dreadful though.

 

[Salford_Red83]

It was initially but I believe that was extended to this summer.

Edit: just double checked "The club has postponed the final decision until the end of the current season. This delay allows for a comprehensive evaluation of all options and considerations."

Basically waiting to see if we are relegated

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Agree ref City as they didn’t pay for their ground. They only started heavily investing in it once they were taken over. Their ground has never restricted them as a club, quite the opposite.

This bit might make you choke - it cost £112 million to build!

Aye. They were gifted everything!

Interesting side note from history. When that ground was originally being planned as as part of Manchester’s bid to host the 96 and 2000 Olympics, they wanted to give United first refusal on the ground post event. Obviously Manchester was unsuccessful a d those events went to Atalanta and Sydney.

By the time the 2002 Conmonwealth Games bid came about a bit later on, OT had confirmed plans to extend to a 67,000 capacity meaning we didn't need a bigger ground at that point. The only viable option for the council was city.

If Manchester had been successful (especially for 96) there's a chance Martin Edwards would have opted to move what is now the Etihad, probably meaning that city would have carried on being something of a "yo-yo" club between the PL and Championship and still at Maine Road. Would have also probably meant that London wouldn't have hosted the 2012 Olympics meaning West Ham would still be at Upton Park.

 

[RuudTom83]

The thought of a shiny new stadium lining the pockets of the Glazers even more than it does now just makes me wanna stay put until Old Trafford falls down.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The thought of a shiny new stadium lining the pockets of the Glazers even more than it does now just makes me wanna stay put until Old Trafford falls down.

It still doesn't make sense to me though

INEOS have already put a bit of money in towards infrastructure. Glazers never have or will. Presumably INEOS would put more in if it was their club and this project was 100% theirs. But obviously won't do that with the Glazers sitting on their fat arses as majority owners as they'll just be strengthening the Glazers and weakening themselves.

I'd also think the club will be more valuable right now before this project starts. Rather than when the Club takes on a shit load more debt to build a stadium that could take the best part of 10 years to build. So in essence, if they don't sell soon (within the next 12 months) they're then waiting almost a decade for the club to regain its value.

Unless I am missing something obvious which is smacking me in the face, I can't see much benefit to Glazers staying put for this huge money and time consuming project which they don't have any interest in. It makes much more sense to let INEOS buy their shares right now, fill their pockets, and then let INEOS take on the debt for the new/revamped Old Trafford.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It still doesn't make sense to me though

INEOS have already put a bit of money in towards infrastructure. Glazers never have or will. Presumably INEOS would put more in if it was their club and this project was 100% theirs. But obviously won't do that with the Glazers sitting on their fat arses as majority owners as they'll just be strengthening the Glazers and weakening themselves.

I'd also think the club will be more valuable right now before this project starts. Rather than when the Club takes on a shit load more debt to build a stadium that could take the best part of 10 years to build. So in essence, if they don't sell soon (within the next 12 months) they're then waiting almost a decade for the club to regain its value.

Unless I am missing something obvious which is smacking me in the face, I can't see much benefit to Glazers staying put for this huge money and time consuming project which they don't have any interest in. It makes much more sense to let INEOS buy their shares right now, fill their pockets, and then let INEOS take on the debt for the new/revamped Old Trafford.

They have a pause on dividends for a couple of years. But selling more equity to Ineos in exchange for investment, means they will still start seeing their annual dividends return. It’s steady income for them, and unless they need/ want the capital to invest elsewhere, I can’t see them going anywhere.

Now there is no fan pressure on them, all the focus on on Ineos, and they now have little work to do.

Unfortunately, I can’t see them cashing out.

 

[DownRiver]

With financial difficulties of the club and cost cutting, anyone feel like they will choose an option that is less lavish? I am talking about if they chose a new stadium, they might not go all out in order to save some money.

They didn’t get a whole new training ground, they just refurbished it.

However, they did get the best most expensive architects to build the redevelopment of the training ground.

 

[JB7]

The acoustics & views are great there! Much better than many new stadium. Clever piece of designing. Surrounding area is dreadful though.

I feel like we're talking about a different stadium. You're genuinely telling me that West Ham's ground is great in terms of atmosphere and views? What are you comparing it to?!