New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford | Aim is to build 100k seater stadium

[Bert_]

Yes but that was rebuilding the stadium after it was bombed. It was the same stadium on the same site. So obviously it would still be called OT.

This would be different. It'd be a new stadium built on a different site while OT would probably survive in some form.

You can't have two stadiums both called Old Trafford.

Old Trafford is an area. Like pretty much all stadiums of the time, they didn't have specific names. All the historical articles around the time we moved there refered to it as "Manchester United's new ground at Old Trafford". Or just "Manchester United's new ground". Football grounds didnt need to have names, just the teams that played in them. In general conversation that's not how people talk though so it became just got referred to by its location i.e. Old Trafford. Same as most other football grounds in the UK.

If we move into new stadium that is built next to the current one. It's still going to be Old Trafford. Even if we keep the current stadium and end up with two right next to each other, they are collectively Old Trafford. Can have individual names for each one like we have individual names for each stand, but the whole site is still Old Trafford.

 

[stevoc]

Old Trafford is an area. Like pretty much all stadiums of the time, they didn't have specific names. All the historical articles around the time we moved there refered to it as "Manchester United's new ground at Old Trafford". Or just "Manchester United's new ground". Football grounds didnt need to have names, just the teams that played in them. In general conversation that's not how people talk though so it became just got referred to by its location i.e. Old Trafford. Same as most other football grounds in the UK.

If we move into new stadium that is built next to the current one. It's still going to be Old Trafford. Even if we keep the current stadium and end up with two right next to each other, they are collectively Old Trafford. Can have individual names for each one like we have individual names for each stand, but the whole site is still Old Trafford.

I'm aware as I'm sure are most United fans. But for over 100 years now Old Trafford has also been the name of the stadium.

Yeah one will be Old Trafford and the other will most likely have naming rights. Sorted.

 

[Bubz27]

build it there

 

[Red in STL]

Is there such a site though?

That freight terminal is massive.


The rest all sounds great. Don't know how realistic it is in the current political climate though. Loads of public services are desperate for more funding. Can't imagine it would be popular for the government and councils to donate probably hundreds of millions to a football club.

More like billions and it would take years to get done, just think about the logistics of building/moving a new freight terminal, the new roads it would need, the new rail spur, signalling, all of which would need to be done first - can't see it happening myself

 

[Rood]

Old Trafford is an area. Like pretty much all stadiums of the time, they didn't have specific names. All the historical articles around the time we moved there refered to it as "Manchester United's new ground at Old Trafford". Or just "Manchester United's new ground". Football grounds didnt need to have names, just the teams that played in them. In general conversation that's not how people talk though so it became just got referred to by its location i.e. Old Trafford. Same as most other football grounds in the UK.

If we move into new stadium that is built next to the current one. It's still going to be Old Trafford. Even if we keep the current stadium and end up with two right next to each other, they are collectively Old Trafford. Can have individual names for each one like we have individual names for each stand, but the whole site is still Old Trafford.

Hmmm not sure about that - i wouldn't call a completely new built stadium 'Old Trafford' even if it was just next door, especially if the original was still standing

 

[decorativeed]

Someone said we should go big or go home and I agree. The freight terminal has to move and politicians in the area should make that happen. No modern cities should have a massive freight terminal blocking development so close to the city centre.

I also read someone wrote that the freight terminal is more important for the Trafford Park area than a sports stadium, but is that really the case though? It seems to me like the freight terminal handles cargo for large parts of the city and not just Trafford Park, it's just way too big for that. Such a huge train freight terminal should not be located near a city centre. It looks like there is actually 2 freight terminals so if it is really needed then keep the southern one for a while longer?

From what I understand, most stadiums are built on the north-south axis due to sun conditions and I believe we could find the space for that. Earlier someone commented that building the stadium over train lines or the canal could be a terrorist/bomb risk and I can see that. I would not build the actual stadium over the canal but I don't see a problem with covering part of the canal with a pedestrian square like the one in front of Old Trafford East Stand. I am pretty sure there would be space for a 100k north-south oriented stadium in between the train lines and the canal if we did that.

I did a quick sketch. Unfortunately I can't post links to pictures. Link with some additional * characters that will need to be removed below.

Sketch link:
https*://i.imgur.*com/tqezUch.*png

1 - Old Trafford (PINK)
With reduced capacity in Sir Alex Ferguson Stand and Stretford End.

2 - Trafford Stadium (BLACK)
New 100k capacity stadium.

3 - Square built over the canal (GREEN)
Would tie the new stadium together with Wharfside Wy., and the theatre together with Old Trafford and surrounding areas. From what I understand we actually own this land already so it shouldn't be hard to get done. Basically just a very wide bridge made with fancy materials. Boats would pass through the tunnel underneath just fine.

4 - YouTube Theatre (RED)
Similar to the one at SOFI Stadium which is 6k capacity.
Would provide entertainment in the area throughout the week, especially in evenings on weekends. Takes advantage of the stadium parking and public transport facilities. Would generate additional income for the club, also by selling the naming rights to Big Tech or similar. Selling the name of this theatre would be better than selling the name of the stadium.

I am picturing a combined stage and a huge screen that can slide down in front of the stage. It could show live games during Euros/World Cup or even live Man Utd matches if the actual stadium is sold out for the biggest games. Imagine sitting in a reclined seat watching Man Utd vs Real Madrid with 6k people in an indoor theatre right next to the sold out 100k stadium, and celebrating with them outside the stadium after the game. Possibly a nice alternative to going to a bar?

For concerts and shows it would be smaller than places like Manchester Arena so they wouldn't really compete against each other. Such a theatre could also show movies like they do at Hollywood Bowl Movie Nights.

5. Roof (CYAN)
Roof covering both the new stadium, the theatre and the area between, similar to the SOFI Stadium.

6. Trafford Stadium Station / Trafford Park Station / Old Trafford Station (YELLOW)
Looks like a great place for a passenger train station by the existing train lines. The club could even buy their own train, paint it red, put our logo on the side and install TV screens on board that shows highlights of past matches on the way to the stadium, while serving beer. Because why not?


BLUE is obviously parking areas. PURPLE for buses. ORANGE for fast food trucks or similar.

Not really sure what to do with the area to the south west. In the WHITE area I pictured a smaller freight/cargo handling area but now that I think about it, why not a huge bus station? That would be great to have right next to the train station and parking areas. Useful for the entire area I would assume. Having both a train station and a bus station would likely mean that we would never have issues with matchday transportation, even with the 100k stadium.

What do you think?

 

[ifightdragons]

Someone said we should go big or go home and I agree. The freight terminal has to move and politicians in the area should make that happen. No modern cities should have a massive freight terminal blocking development so close to the city centre.

I also read someone wrote that the freight terminal is more important for the Trafford Park area than a sports stadium, but is that really the case though? It seems to me like the freight terminal handles cargo for large parts of the city and not just Trafford Park, it's just way too big for that. Such a huge train freight terminal should not be located near a city centre. It looks like there is actually 2 freight terminals so if it is really needed then keep the southern one for a while longer?

From what I understand, most stadiums are built on the north-south axis due to sun conditions and I believe we could find the space for that. Earlier someone commented that building the stadium over train lines or the canal could be a terrorist/bomb risk and I can see that. I would not build the actual stadium over the canal but I don't see a problem with covering part of the canal with a pedestrian square like the one in front of Old Trafford East Stand. I am pretty sure there would be space for a 100k north-south oriented stadium in between the train lines and the canal if we did that.

I did a quick sketch. Unfortunately I can't post links to pictures. Link with some additional * characters that will need to be removed below.

Sketch link:
https*://i.imgur.*com/tqezUch.*png

1 - Old Trafford (PINK)
With reduced capacity in Sir Alex Ferguson Stand and Stretford End.

2 - Trafford Stadium (BLACK)
New 100k capacity stadium.

3 - Square built over the canal (GREEN)
Would tie the new stadium together with Wharfside Wy., and the theatre together with Old Trafford and surrounding areas. From what I understand we actually own this land already so it shouldn't be hard to get done. Basically just a very wide bridge made with fancy materials. Boats would pass through the tunnel underneath just fine.

4 - YouTube Theatre (RED)
Similar to the one at SOFI Stadium which is 6k capacity.
Would provide entertainment in the area throughout the week, especially in evenings on weekends. Takes advantage of the stadium parking and public transport facilities. Would generate additional income for the club, also by selling the naming rights to Big Tech or similar. Selling the name of this theatre would be better than selling the name of the stadium.

I am picturing a combined stage and a huge screen that can slide down in front of the stage. It could show live games during Euros/World Cup or even live Man Utd matches if the actual stadium is sold out for the biggest games. Imagine sitting in a reclined seat watching Man Utd vs Real Madrid with 6k people in an indoor theatre right next to the sold out 100k stadium, and celebrating with them outside the stadium after the game. Possibly a nice alternative to going to a bar?

For concerts and shows it would be smaller than places like Manchester Arena so they wouldn't really compete against each other. Such a theatre could also show movies like they do at Hollywood Bowl Movie Nights.

5. Roof (CYAN)
Roof covering both the new stadium, the theatre and the area between, similar to the SOFI Stadium.

6. Trafford Stadium Station / Trafford Park Station / Old Trafford Station (YELLOW)
Looks like a great place for a passenger train station by the existing train lines. The club could even buy their own train, paint it red, put our logo on the side and install TV screens on board that shows highlights of past matches on the way to the stadium, while serving beer. Because why not?


BLUE is obviously parking areas. PURPLE for buses. ORANGE for fast food trucks or similar.

Not really sure what to do with the area to the south west. In the WHITE area I pictured a smaller freight/cargo handling area but now that I think about it, why not a huge bus station? That would be great to have right next to the train station and parking areas. Useful for the entire area I would assume. Having both a train station and a bus station would likely mean that we would never have issues with matchday transportation, even with the 100k stadium.

What do you think?

Interesting, you've clearly put some thought into it.

I do believe there is one major flaw though. The footprint of a modern 100 000 seater would probably be a lot bigger than what you've drawn in.

You have to remember that although Old Trafford has 74 000 seats, they are unbelievably cramped. There is almost zero leg room. So just by fixing that, the footprint would extend significantly. Then add 26 000 seats, and way bigger concourses. Not to mention bigger in-stadium restaurants, pubs, museum, Megastore, offices ++.

The footprint would probably be way bigger than what you've drawn.

 

[Bert_]

I'm aware as I'm sure are most United fans. But for over 100 years now Old Trafford has also been the name of the stadium.

Yeah one will be Old Trafford and the other will most likely have naming rights. Sorted.

Hmmm not sure about that - i wouldn't call a completely new built stadium 'Old Trafford' even if it was just next door, especially if the original was still standing

If we moved any significant distance from the current site, even if still in the old trafford area, then a different name would stick. But if it's basically in the same spot, then it's harder for marketing departments to cut off the old name.

The current ground would be downsized if we kept it and it would probably look nothing like the current one. I could see naming rights being sold for both. But the entire site being refered to as Old Trafford generally. Probably end up with the main ground as "Ineos Old Trafford" and junior ground as "Snapdragon Old Trafford" (switch sponsors as you like). Two naming rights deals in place of one. Any other stuff they decide to build there as part of the regeneration, like a gig venue, could piggy back off the name. "Whatever @ Old Trafford".

Edit - If "@ Old Trafford" ever becomes a thing then you're going to have to change your username @Old Trafford

 

[diarm]

Interesting, you've clearly put some thought into it.

I do believe there is one major flaw though. The footprint of a modern 100 000 seater would probably be a lot bigger than what you've drawn in.

You have to remember that although Old Trafford has 74 000 seats, they are unbelievably cramped. There is almost zero leg room. So just by fixing that, the footprint would extend significantly. Then add 26 000 seats, and way bigger concourses. Not to mention bigger in-stadium restaurants, pubs, museum, Megastore, offices ++.

The footprint would probably be way bigger than what you've drawn.

Does anyone know the footprint in m2 of Old Trafford as it is today?

While I agree that the seats are very cramped, the stands are not as steep as somewhere like the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff, which packs a similar capacity to OT, with more comfortable seating into what feels like a much smaller footprint.

I believe the footprint in Cardiff is 40,000m2 so it would be interesting to see if I’m way off with that perception that they’re doing more with less space.

 

[Infra-red]

Does anyone know the footprint in m2 of Old Trafford as it is today?

While I agree that the seats are very cramped, the stands are not as steep as somewhere like the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff, which packs a similar capacity to OT, with more comfortable seating into what feels like a much smaller footprint.

I believe the footprint in Cardiff is 40,000m2 so it would be interesting to see if I’m way off with that perception that they’re doing more with less space.

Based on some rudimentary measurements on Google Maps, Wembley's footprint would appear to be 20% longer and 40% wider than that of old Trafford. A very significant size increase. A 100k seat 'Wembley of the North' would be much, much larger than Old Trafford.

 

[stevoc]

More like billions and it would take years to get done, just think about the logistics of building/moving a new freight terminal, the new roads it would need, the new rail spur, signalling, all of which would need to be done first - can't see it happening myself

Yeah me neither. And yes you're right it probably would take billions. Moving that Freight terminal is a complete non started I feel. The only space of land that could accomodate it is probably 9-10 miles out of town in the countryside.

 

[Dan]

Does anyone know the footprint in m2 of Old Trafford as it is today?

While I agree that the seats are very cramped, the stands are not as steep as somewhere like the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff, which packs a similar capacity to OT, with more comfortable seating into what feels like a much smaller footprint.

I believe the footprint in Cardiff is 40,000m2 so it would be interesting to see if I’m way off with that perception that they’re doing more with less space.

Doing a rough point to point measurement in google maps, it’s about 250m x 190m, that’s if you measure it as rectangle. That’s about 47,500 square metres.

In comparison, the Nou Camp is currently 55,000 square metres (250 metres long and 220 metres wide) according to their website.

 

[diarm]

Doing a rough point to point measurement in google maps, it’s about 250m x 190m, that’s if you measure it as rectangle. That’s about 47,500 square metres.

So it shows that with steeper stands - more can be squeezed into a smaller footprint. I always feel it brings a better atmosphere as well, with fans feeling closer to the action.

The best atmospheres I have ever experienced have both been at the Millenium Stadium, once for the Munster Biarritz European Rugby Final in 08 and then again for the Ireland Wales grand slam decider in 09.

@Infra-red i know you measured out Wembley above, but to my eye those stands look quite wide and shallow relatively speaking. It’s huge, but it never comes across as retaining massive sound and atmosphere.

Dortmund have 81k+ in what looks a similar or smaller footprint to OT and are renowned for their atmosphere.

Those steep sided cauldrons are where I’d like to see us looking to for inspiration, rather than wide, sprawling bowls like Wembley or the SoFi.

 

[Infra-red]

Doing a rough point to point measurement in google maps, it’s about 250m x 190m, that’s if you measure it as rectangle. That’s about 47,500 square metres.

In comparison, the Nou Camp is currently 55,000 square metres (250 metres long and 220 metres wide) according to their website.

Meanwhile, Wembley Stadium is 300m x 280m (84,000 square meters).

 

[Dan]

Meanwhile, Wembley Stadium is 300m x 280m (84,000 square meters).

Found this old tweet, Stade de France is big boy too.

 

[Infra-red]

Found this old tweet, Stade de France is big boy too.

Ah, interesting, thanks. Sort of confirms what I felt when I visited the Allianz - very hard to believe that its capacity is smaller (at least at that time) than Old Trafford's when you are next to it / inside it, because it just feels much bigger. Turns out that it is bigger (at least according to that graphic).

 

[Red in STL]

So it shows that with steeper stands - more can be squeezed into a smaller footprint. I always feel it brings a better atmosphere as well, with fans feeling closer to the action.

The best atmospheres I have ever experienced have both been at the Millenium Stadium, once for the Munster Biarritz European Rugby Final in 08 and then again for the Ireland Wales grand slam decider in 09.

@Infra-red i know you measured out Wembley above, but to my eye those stands look quite wide and shallow relatively speaking. It’s huge, but it never comes across as retaining massive sound and atmosphere.

Dortmund have 81k+ in what looks a similar or smaller footprint to OT and are renowned for their atmosphere.

Those steep sided cauldrons are where I’d like to see us looking to for inspiration, rather than wide, sprawling bowls like Wembley or the SoFi.

I've seen United play at the Millenium a few times, atmosphere wise it was great, but I hated the steep stands, coming down those steps felt like I was about to topple over and start a domino effect, I don't remember the leg room being that great either

 

[tentan]

Someone said we should go big or go home and I agree. The freight terminal has to move and politicians in the area should make that happen. No modern cities should have a massive freight terminal blocking development so close to the city centre.

I also read someone wrote that the freight terminal is more important for the Trafford Park area than a sports stadium, but is that really the case though? It seems to me like the freight terminal handles cargo for large parts of the city and not just Trafford Park, it's just way too big for that. Such a huge train freight terminal should not be located near a city centre. It looks like there is actually 2 freight terminals so if it is really needed then keep the southern one for a while longer?

From what I understand, most stadiums are built on the north-south axis due to sun conditions and I believe we could find the space for that. Earlier someone commented that building the stadium over train lines or the canal could be a terrorist/bomb risk and I can see that. I would not build the actual stadium over the canal but I don't see a problem with covering part of the canal with a pedestrian square like the one in front of Old Trafford East Stand. I am pretty sure there would be space for a 100k north-south oriented stadium in between the train lines and the canal if we did that.

I did a quick sketch. Unfortunately I can't post links to pictures. Link with some additional * characters that will need to be removed below.

Sketch link:
https*://i.imgur.*com/tqezUch.*png

1 - Old Trafford (PINK)
With reduced capacity in Sir Alex Ferguson Stand and Stretford End.

2 - Trafford Stadium (BLACK)
New 100k capacity stadium.

3 - Square built over the canal (GREEN)
Would tie the new stadium together with Wharfside Wy., and the theatre together with Old Trafford and surrounding areas. From what I understand we actually own this land already so it shouldn't be hard to get done. Basically just a very wide bridge made with fancy materials. Boats would pass through the tunnel underneath just fine.

4 - YouTube Theatre (RED)
Similar to the one at SOFI Stadium which is 6k capacity.
Would provide entertainment in the area throughout the week, especially in evenings on weekends. Takes advantage of the stadium parking and public transport facilities. Would generate additional income for the club, also by selling the naming rights to Big Tech or similar. Selling the name of this theatre would be better than selling the name of the stadium.

I am picturing a combined stage and a huge screen that can slide down in front of the stage. It could show live games during Euros/World Cup or even live Man Utd matches if the actual stadium is sold out for the biggest games. Imagine sitting in a reclined seat watching Man Utd vs Real Madrid with 6k people in an indoor theatre right next to the sold out 100k stadium, and celebrating with them outside the stadium after the game. Possibly a nice alternative to going to a bar?

For concerts and shows it would be smaller than places like Manchester Arena so they wouldn't really compete against each other. Such a theatre could also show movies like they do at Hollywood Bowl Movie Nights.

5. Roof (CYAN)
Roof covering both the new stadium, the theatre and the area between, similar to the SOFI Stadium.

6. Trafford Stadium Station / Trafford Park Station / Old Trafford Station (YELLOW)
Looks like a great place for a passenger train station by the existing train lines. The club could even buy their own train, paint it red, put our logo on the side and install TV screens on board that shows highlights of past matches on the way to the stadium, while serving beer. Because why not?


BLUE is obviously parking areas. PURPLE for buses. ORANGE for fast food trucks or similar.

Not really sure what to do with the area to the south west. In the WHITE area I pictured a smaller freight/cargo handling area but now that I think about it, why not a huge bus station? That would be great to have right next to the train station and parking areas. Useful for the entire area I would assume. Having both a train station and a bus station would likely mean that we would never have issues with matchday transportation, even with the 100k stadium.

What do you think?

You really love Sofi stadium don't you?

 

[Avero]

Is there such a site though?

That freight terminal is massive.


The rest all sounds great. Don't know how realistic it is in the current political climate though. Loads of public services are desperate for more funding. Can't imagine it would be popular for the government and councils to donate probably hundreds of millions to a football club.

No idea really. Someone should figure that out and they are probably working on it.

I wrote that such a site would likely be owned by the city/whatever governing entity, but that isn't true, the correct word would have been possibly owned by them.

To be honest I have been to Manchester 4 times, slept in hotels in the city centre, taxis to and from Old Trafford. Walked back and forth once. Ate in a few restaurants in evenings. Sadly that is about my knowledge of the city.

But I looked around Google Maps a bit and after some googling I came across an article saying the Carrington area is being redeveloped and the plans described as a "major industrial and logistics hub that could create 1,600 jobs".

https://www.business-live.co.uk/commercial-property/plans-major-industrial-logistics-hub-25728434

It is currently abandoned so it looks suitable. Should be space for a freight terminal there.

There is also a closed train line to the south of this area which could be reopened.

Posting another link with a sketch to show what I was thinking:
https*://i.imgur.*com/jlDQmU8.*jpeg

The * characters will need to be removed again.

The yellow road was added because it actually takes near 15 minutes to drive from Carrington to Cadishead even though they are right next to each other. I think such a road would connect Carrington, Cadishead and Partington nicely and also give trucks the option of driving west onto a bigger road. Especially good for the area if Carrington is developed into what the document below suggests.

Here are some additional related links:
https://www.wainestates.co.uk/images/lib/New_Carrington_Wider_Vision_Document_7f7ba2b7ab.pdf
https://hamiltondavies.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Proposal-to-re-open-Cadishead-Viaduct.pdf

You really love Sofi stadium don't you?

Not really, but it is a state of the art stadium which has interesting features. Primarily the theatre and the shared roof which creates the plaza underneath. I think their plaza is designed very "Hollywood" but it is a good idea.

 

[decorativeed]

No idea really. Someone should figure that out and they are probably working on it.

I wrote that such a site would likely be owned by the city/whatever governing entity, but that isn't true, the correct word would have been possibly owned by them.

To be honest I have been to Manchester 4 times, slept in hotels in the city centre, taxis to and from Old Trafford. Walked back and forth once. Ate in a few restaurants in evenings. Sadly that is about my knowledge of the city.

But I looked around Google Maps a bit and after some googling I came across an article saying the Carrington area is being redeveloped and the plans described as a "major industrial and logistics hub that could create 1,600 jobs".

https://www.business-live.co.uk/commercial-property/plans-major-industrial-logistics-hub-25728434

It is currently abandoned so it looks suitable. Should be space for a freight terminal there.

There is also a closed train line to the south of this area which could be reopened.

Posting another link with a sketch to show what I was thinking:
https*://i.imgur.*com/jlDQmU8.*jpeg

The * characters will need to be removed again.

The yellow road was added because it actually takes near 15 minutes to drive from Carrington to Cadishead even though they are right next to each other. I think such a road would connect Carrington, Cadishead and Partington nicely and also give trucks the option of driving west onto a bigger road. Especially good for the area if Carrington is developed into what the document below suggests.

Here are some additional related links:
https://www.wainestates.co.uk/images/lib/New_Carrington_Wider_Vision_Document_7f7ba2b7ab.pdf
https://hamiltondavies.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Proposal-to-re-open-Cadishead-Viaduct.pdf


Not really, but it is a state of the art stadium which has interesting features. Primarily the theatre and the shared roof which creates the plaza underneath. I think their plaza is designed very "Hollywood" but it is a good idea.

You can't just bung a fright terminal anywhere it will fit onto a map though.

And the point of moving it will be to take freight services off that line, whereas putting it in Carrington actually keeps them on that line for longer.

I'm sure Andy Burnham has suggested rerouting them to the north, lines going through Salford, and potentially putting a new terminal alongside the Port Salford development.

 

[rimaldo]

easiest way is to float the new stadium in the sky whilst it’s being built, then when it’s ready, just lower it over the top of the old one. the glazers won’t do it though.

 

[Avero]

You can't just bung a fright terminal anywhere it will fit onto a map though.

And the point of moving it will be to take freight services off that line, whereas putting it in Carrington actually keeps them on that line for longer.

I'm sure Andy Burnham has suggested rerouting them to the north, lines going through Salford, and potentially putting a new terminal alongside the Port Salford development.

It wasn't really bung onto a map anywhere it would fit, I think that would actually be a great location but if they want freight away from the line then it's obviously not an option.

Bottom line is that the freight terminal is going to move and to Man Utd it doesn't really matter where it goes so we don't really need to find the solution on this forum.

Found this old tweet, Stade de France is big boy too.

The stadium size comparisons are quite misleading because if you look at the Stade de France closely then the roof actually extends several meters outside the stadium on all sides. The size seen from above is nowhere near the ground footprint. I believe the comparisons show the stadiums seen from above.

I guess we could do something similar with our new stadium if it turns out there isn't enough ground space in the end. Have the walls curve outward towards the top. So at ground level it would be by the edge of the canal but the people seated in the back row of the top tier would sit above the middle of the canal.

Here is yet another sketch, with a bigger stadium footprint and rotated a few degrees. It is about 30% wider than Old Trafford and about 15% wider than Old Trafford would have been if South Stand was the same width as Sir Alex Ferguson Stand (in which case Old Trafford would have 90k capacity). So the footrpint is about 15% wider than a 90k Old Trafford. And also about 15% longer. I think this size would realistically get us close to 100k even with more leg room.

It is worth mentioning that I did the measurements with a ruler onto the sketch on the computer screen, so they aren't extremely accurate.

Link with the extra * characters:
https*://i.imgur.*com/4A5NPKF.*jpeg

I also added a possible road and bridge across the train line from the south. The brown color in the lower left is supposed to be a bus station. Either that or a hardened turd wrapped in aluminium foil and then covered with some soft turd (more people will check out the sketch now).

Anyway, the main point is that I do think if architects had a look at it they would find space for the 100k stadium oriented north-south next to Old Trafford, if you built a square over the canal.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Unless they do something about the traffic near Wharfside the place is screwed. Unless the increased footfall is expected to go the other way?

 

[Zydar]

easiest way is to float the new stadium in the sky whilst it’s being built, then when it’s ready, just lower it over the top of the old one. the glazers won’t do it though.

You've been playing Subnautica?

 

[golden_blunder]

Old Trafford will still be there though, albeit adapted. Older Trafford? Herritage Trafford? The stadium simultaneously previously and currently known as Old Trafford?

Personally I'd name new stadium after Sir Alex and combine it with sponsor. The BMW Alex Ferguson stadium. Or something.

Stadia 1, Old Trafford
Stadia 2, Old Trafford

1 Old Trafford
2 Old Trafford

 

[tentan]

Someone said we should go big or go home and I agree. The freight terminal has to move and politicians in the area should make that happen. No modern cities should have a massive freight terminal blocking development so close to the city centre.

I also read someone wrote that the freight terminal is more important for the Trafford Park area than a sports stadium, but is that really the case though? It seems to me like the freight terminal handles cargo for large parts of the city and not just Trafford Park, it's just way too big for that. Such a huge train freight terminal should not be located near a city centre. It looks like there is actually 2 freight terminals so if it is really needed then keep the southern one for a while longer?

From what I understand, most stadiums are built on the north-south axis due to sun conditions and I believe we could find the space for that. Earlier someone commented that building the stadium over train lines or the canal could be a terrorist/bomb risk and I can see that. I would not build the actual stadium over the canal but I don't see a problem with covering part of the canal with a pedestrian square like the one in front of Old Trafford East Stand. I am pretty sure there would be space for a 100k north-south oriented stadium in between the train lines and the canal if we did that.

I did a quick sketch. Unfortunately I can't post links to pictures. Link with some additional * characters that will need to be removed below.

Sketch link:
https*://i.imgur.*com/tqezUch.*png

1 - Old Trafford (PINK)
With reduced capacity in Sir Alex Ferguson Stand and Stretford End.

No point having two stadiums, turn it into a car park.

 

[Avero]

It wasn't really bung onto a map anywhere it would fit, I think that would actually be a great location but if they want freight away from the line then it's obviously not an option.

Bottom line is that the freight terminal is going to move and to Man Utd it doesn't really matter where it goes so we don't really need to find the solution on this forum.


The stadium size comparisons are quite misleading because if you look at the Stade de France closely then the roof actually extends several meters outside the stadium on all sides. The size seen from above is nowhere near the ground footprint. I believe the comparisons show the stadiums seen from above.

I guess we could do something similar with our new stadium if it turns out there isn't enough ground space in the end. Have the walls curve outward towards the top. So at ground level it would be by the edge of the canal but the people seated in the back row of the top tier would sit above the middle of the canal.

Here is yet another sketch, with a bigger stadium footprint and rotated a few degrees. It is about 30% wider than Old Trafford and about 15% wider than Old Trafford would have been if South Stand was the same width as Sir Alex Ferguson Stand (in which case Old Trafford would have 90k capacity). So the footrpint is about 15% wider than a 90k Old Trafford. And also about 15% longer. I think this size would realistically get us close to 100k even with more leg room.

It is worth mentioning that I did the measurements with a ruler onto the sketch on the computer screen, so they aren't extremely accurate.

Link with the extra * characters:
https*://i.imgur.*com/4A5NPKF.*jpeg

I also added a possible road and bridge across the train line from the south. The brown color in the lower left is supposed to be a bus station. Either that or a hardened turd wrapped in aluminium foil and then covered with some soft turd (more people will check out the sketch now).

Anyway, the main point is that I do think if architects had a look at it they would find space for the 100k stadium oriented north-south next to Old Trafford, if you built a square over the canal.

https*://i.imgur.*com/4A5NPKF.*jpeg

Any comments to this sketch?

Does anyone still think it is too small? If anything I believe that I rounded the percentages in the post above down rather than upwards. And it could still be expanded to coincide with the cyan part if you wanted, I just couldn't draw two colors on top of each other.

If you did that it would be similar to the Wembley footprint that someone mentioned is about 20% longer than Old Trafford and 40% wider. It is a reasonable comparison, but from what I understand that stadium isn't loved by everyone. I'm not from UK so I don't know the details, but from looking at pictures it looks a bit flat inside, so tier 2 and tier 3 are seated rather far from the pitch. If you had a steeper slope, made it taller and moved the top tiers closer you could fit more than 100k in there.

Interesting, you've clearly put some thought into it.

I do believe there is one major flaw though. The footprint of a modern 100 000 seater would probably be a lot bigger than what you've drawn in.

You have to remember that although Old Trafford has 74 000 seats, they are unbelievably cramped. There is almost zero leg room. So just by fixing that, the footprint would extend significantly. Then add 26 000 seats, and way bigger concourses. Not to mention bigger in-stadium restaurants, pubs, museum, Megastore, offices ++.

The footprint would probably be way bigger than what you've drawn.

Good feedback. I have increased the footprint now and believe it is still possible. If they did the theatre and the shared roof thing I think they could find a way to make good use of the plaza underneath. I can imagine a restaurant there with outdoor seating underneath the roof 50 meters above. That would be a memorable experience and such a project should certainly aim to create memorable experiences both on the pitch and in the areas surrounding it. The megastore could also be a separate building in the plaza, which would give it 360 degrees access. Offices in second floor on top of it. The possibilities are interesting.

 

[ifightdragons]

https*://i.imgur.*com/4A5NPKF.*jpeg

Any comments to this sketch?

Does anyone still think it is too small? If anything I believe that I rounded the percentages in the post above down rather than upwards. And it could still be expanded to coincide with the cyan part if you wanted, I just couldn't draw two colors on top of each other.

If you did that it would be similar to the Wembley footprint that someone mentioned is about 20% longer than Old Trafford and 40% wider. It is a reasonable comparison, but from what I understand that stadium isn't loved by everyone. I'm not from UK so I don't know the details, but from looking at pictures it looks a bit flat inside, so tier 2 and tier 3 are seated rather far from the pitch. If you had a steeper slope, made it taller and moved the top tiers closer you could fit more than 100k in there.


Good feedback. I have increased the footprint now and believe it is still possible. If they did the theatre and the shared roof thing I think they could find a way to make good use of the plaza underneath. I can imagine a restaurant there with outdoor seating underneath the roof 50 meters above. That would be a memorable experience and such a project should certainly aim to create memorable experiences both on the pitch and in the areas surrounding it. The megastore could also be a separate building in the plaza, which would give it 360 degrees access. Offices in second floor on top of it. The possibilities are interesting.

I checked out your pictures. It actually looks feasible, given that Google Maps is correct in conjunction with other big stadiums, which we must presume it is.
What you're saying looks quite doable, from an amateur's perspective.

Excited for when some more stadium news drop.

 

[Amir]

I've been in London for the past few days and I took the opportunity to do the tour at Spurs's new stadium. I guess it's been an eye opener because while I was already fine with a new stadium, now I'm totally in favour of it. United should have the best and if we've set our sights on a stadium project then we should aim to make it the best, finances permitting, rather than settle on something lesser.

 

[Chelsea Dubbing]

I've been in London for the past few days and I took the opportunity to do the tour at Spurs's new stadium. I guess it's been an eye opener because while I was already fine with a new stadium, now I'm totally in favour of it. United should have the best and if we've set our sights on a stadium project then we should aim to make it the best, finances permitting, rather than settle on something lesser.

Fully agree.
I managed to watch a game at Spurs last season with a mate who's a season ticket holder and I've got to say, the stadium is superb. Big concourse, easy to get in and out, plenty of bars, big toilets, it was hard to fault it. Incredible what they've done on the same site as the old White Hart Lane, which I had also been to years ago.
One thing I would say is that a lot of people have the wrong idea about the design, especially those who argue against generic bowl designs, it doesn't feel like a bowl inside, not compared to the outside.

Pains me to say it, but they've probably got the best stadium in the Prem at this moment.

 

[SirAF]

Lord Coe, chair of the task force, said: “The objective of this once-in-a-generation project is not only the development of a world-class stadium for the north of England, but also to ensure that this brings broad social and economic benefits to the local area and surrounding region.

“There is a huge opportunity to connect Trafford Wharfside regeneration with the ongoing growth of neighbouring Media City in Salford, and Greater Manchester’s Western Gateway and Central Growth Cluster plans, to create a project of national significance. The tripartite advisory team will help fully unlock this incredibly exciting potential.”

Music to my ears this! Fingers crossed it will be a new stadium and a complete re-development.

 

[Hal9000]

Music to my ears this! Fingers crossed it will be a new stadium and a complete re-development.

Didn't we already know this, or is this just an 'official announcement' of what's been going on for a whilst?

 

[Semper Fudge]

Didn't we already know this, or is this just an 'official announcement' of what's been going on for a whilst?

This is a separate group.

 

[euv2]

Mark Critchley has reported for the Athletic that Foster + Partners are set to be appointed as master planners for club-owned land surrounding Old Trafford. No news on planners for the stadium yet. I think it will be confirmed by end of December when they announce their final plan, currently it'd bet on Foster + partners on that too, along with populous on the construction planning side.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Manchester United is launching a survey this week to ensure the views of its fans are at the heart of plans for the future of Old Trafford and the regeneration of the Trafford Wharfside area.

The fan survey, which will be shared via email on Friday, is the first step in the fan consultation phase of the Old Trafford Regeneration project as the feasibility work progresses, following the appointment of the Task Force of leading experts and local leaders in February.

While the club has continually engaged with the Fans’ Advisory Board and Fans’ Forum on this matter, the launch of the survey will offer all men’s and women’s team Season Ticket holders, United Members and Executive Club members the opportunity to provide their views directly to the club.

Collette Roche, Manchester United chief operating officer, said: “We want to hear from as many fans as possible during this process to ensure we can capture all their views and understand what our supporters want from a world-class stadium in the future.

“This important survey is the first stage of our wider consultation with fans and will be followed by a series of focus groups and town hall meetings to make sure fan voice is at the heart of our decision-making process.”

Former club captain, and member of the Old Trafford Regeneration Task Force, Gary Neville, said: “Old Trafford has evolved throughout its history and it’s clear we are at a point where it has to change again to ensure that Manchester United has a world-class stadium befitting the world’s greatest club and the world’s greatest fans.

“Old Trafford should be a stadium that the Manchester United fan base can take pride in, so I urge the fans to complete the survey, and participate in the wider consultation, to help shape the Task Force feasibility work and ultimately inform the club’s final decision on the stadium’s future.”

Duncan Drasdo, CEO of the Manchester United Supporters’ Trust, added: “Enhancing fan engagement on key issues is at the heart of MUST’s mission and there are few more important questions at any football club than the future of the stadium. Our primary objective through the Task Force is to ensure that supporters' voices have been heard when the club comes to make their decision about the future of Old Trafford, so we believe this process is of utmost importance.

“We'd encourage all fans to share their views and continue to engage throughout all aspects of the consultation process.”
Lord Coe provides Old Trafford task force update

The survey will cover fans’ current matchday experience, what they want their future experience to include and ask their views on new build and renovation options. It should take no longer than 15 minutes to complete, and the club thanks its fans in advance for their time, efforts and honest views which will help shape world-class facilities we can all be proud of.

The deadline for responses is 23:59 (BST) on Sunday 6 October 2024.

In addition to fan consultation, the club will also be seeking the views of residents, and the wider community, with that process starting in October.

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...help-regeneration-feasibility-at-old-trafford

 

[Spoony]

Mark Critchley has reported for the Athletic that Foster + Partners are set to be appointed as master planners for club-owned land surrounding Old Trafford. No news on planners for the stadium yet. I think it will be confirmed by end of December when they announce their final plan, currently it'd bet on Foster + partners on that too, along with populous on the construction planning side.

Fosters and Populous designed the Lusail Stadium. Foster did the exterior and Populous the interior. Suppose it's what the Qataris wanted in terms of aesthetics but I thought it was a tad bland despite beautiful exterior.

 

[euv2]

Fosters and Populous designed the Lusail Stadium. Foster did the exterior and Populous the interior. Suppose it's what the Qataris wanted in terms of aesthetics but I thought it was a tad bland despite beautiful exterior.

Yeah, I think the design was based on traditional bowl from Qatar, so don't think they had a lot to work with. They love their glass and wood designs; they design all of Apple stores and HQ. Even the Carrington training complex upgrades follow the same design elements.

 

[Pughnichi]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...help-regeneration-feasibility-at-old-trafford

All PR bullshit. If they want a new stadium, they’ll build a new stadium. Regardless of what fans think. I suspect a lot of fans will be onboard anyhow. I am. Can’t wait for an amazing new stadium

 

[Alex99]

All PR bullshit. If they want a new stadium, they’ll build a new stadium. Regardless of what fans think. I suspect a lot of fans will be onboard anyhow. I am. Can’t wait for an amazing new stadium

One of the options has always been to regenerate Old Trafford, but the reality is that they'd probably have to demolish and rebuild so much of it to bring it up to modern standards that they may as well build a new one anyway.

The only thing I'd be disappointed about with a new stadium is if it's some generic, shiny bowl without any character.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

All PR bullshit. If they want a new stadium, they’ll build a new stadium. Regardless of what fans think. I suspect a lot of fans will be onboard anyhow. I am. Can’t wait for an amazing new stadium

I'm sure they will, but believe it or not, some have more opinions than just that singular question.