That depends, but at times, yes, I would say that the problem could be the manager himself. Di Canio at Sunderland, for instance.
Moyes: Stick or Sack?
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That depends, but at times, yes, I would say that the problem could be the manager himself. Di Canio at Sunderland, for instance.
Erm, no?
No way a 17 year-old pique or a 17 year-old Rossi would get a sniff in today's team.
Yes, theoretically possible. Not sure Di Canio and Moyes is a fair comparison though. Ie, in this instance I would be inclined to back the manager - for now. It all comes back to what SAF said in his farewell speech at the end of the day. We need to back the manager. There will come a time when the facts will have changed to the point that those words are redundant, but it is way too soon to have reached that point, awful as things look. But then the consensus seems to still be the end of the season as the time for a decision, and while I still feel that is too soon (depriving him of his day in the summer transfer market AFTER he has had time to work with the squad) I would not say it is so soon that it is entirely unfair, given how disastrous his short tenure has been.
Obviously there's no comparison between Di Canio and Moyes. However, if players feel the style he's trying to implement or the training methods aren't good enough, it's not impossible that they are actually correct. Many of them are seasoned pros. They only knew one manager at United, but almost all of them played for other clubs or for international managers. They do know a thing or two about football.
As for giving Moyes a summer transfer window, well, maybe. Question is, having seen what we've seen so far, do we really want to give him a chance of rebuilding the team more in his image?
As for giving Moyes a summer transfer window, well, maybe. Question is, having seen what we've seen so far, do we really want to give him a chance of rebuilding the team more in his image?
Nah, I disagree with that. I mean I guess there is no definite right or wrong answer, it is a matter of opinion by definition. But just because the players might know something about football, what, Moyes doesnt? The manager is the manager. The players are paid to play football and do as they are fecking told.
Moyes got his fair share of stick in his Evertons day, mainly due to his conservative tactics, but I cannot remember Everton players openly bullshitting his training methods. The last thing United need is a player revolt, it can happen we continue to slump.
I'd put them pretty close. It's pretty subjective, but I ran through them like-for-like and... in fact I'm going to put it in a new thread rather than derail this one. I reckon it's pretty interesting.
I didn't mean at that age. I mean you'd take both right now. Both have turned into brilliant players so when looking back on that squad you have to be fair and view both of them as two quality players missed (like Pogba these days).
I'd take Pique right now.
I'm not sure we've much need for Rossi, great as he's doing, we've got more strikers than we can play up front anyway. I guess he'd still be useful. Though actually, he'd be totally useless "right now" as he's torn his ACL. So no.
Anyway, it's irrelevant when comparing the teams. For all we know Wilson and Janko will turn out to be as good as them.
are these Eric Harrison quotes true or has somebody made them up?
he says he is 100% behind him, but then goes on to say he doesnt think he can turn it around.
says fergie will need to help him
made a mistake with bringing in Everton backroom team.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11661/9107835/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Won't it be hilarious if he wins manager of the month for Dec.
Don't laugh too soon, he's up for it with Jose, Pelican and Martinez...
Obviously Martinez will win it, but still it would be fecking awesome.
Anytime anyone says anything about him being a manager who hasn't won anything we could point to it and the Charity Shield and our conversion to the dippers will be complete.
Obviously Martinez will win it, but still it would be fecking awesome.
Anytime anyone says anything about him being a manager who hasn't won anything we could point to it and the Charity Shield and our conversion to the dippers will be complete.
Don't think the opinions of an ex-coach on a tabloid news site are the most relevant issue.
Loaded question. 'Turn things around'.. in general, this season? What exactly was the question.
Usual shite reporting and people only too eager to swallow it hook line and sinker.
Usual shite reporting and people only too eager to swallow it hook line and sinker.
oh so players have no say so?
Not no say, they can have a word with the manager and offer their thoughts. But its not a democracy. Moyes is the manager, he calls the shots.
well said eyepopper. Not sure if any of you buy Red News but the editor always posts pre/post-match interviews with the questions AND the answers. That sort of context is absolutely vital
Okay then how are we assessing that the players are not doing what they're told to do?
You can trace the conversation back to this comment.
It was a hypothetical, I suspect it is true as well but I cant say that for sure.
It was a hypothetical, I suspect it is true as well but I cant say that for sure.
it's a catch-22 for Moyes. In general, I feel players wont buy into his methods until we see better results. However because we arent seeing better results, they probably feel little reason to believe in his methods over the previous ones ( dont know for sure, just speculating). Additionally, because this is Manchester United we're talking about, we need to start winning some games or the inquest is only going to get worse. I'm sure both the players and Moyes realise there needs to be a change and fast. Something has to give, from either side, otherwise we're headed down a potentially slippery slope.
The other issue is Moyes says he's intent on putting it right. He said that after the Newcastle defeat but we've just lost 3 games on the bounce. Doesn't instill a lot of confidence unfortunately.
This is an example of an ipse dixit argument ("he said it"). My presumption is Rossi feels like this can't be a good sign because Harrison said so but also because Harrison is a football man so he's seen alot and knows more about the game than we do. However, Harrison is giving his opinion. Even though he has been around the game for a while, his expertise is in being a coach, not assessing managers. Therefore, we have to question how much weight his opinion actually holds.
Quite, its one of those things that is just going to get harder and harder, the longer this goes on the more clueless Moyes is going to look, if the players are questioning whether he is up to the job - and it is striking that so many people posting about this seem to believe that is at least part of the problem - it is not going to get any better until he starts winning. But it is hard to see where the win is going to come from if he has lost the dressing room. Hopefully even if that is the case the players have got to start playing for some pride at some point.
Was thinking earlier, how much we miss a Keane type player at the moment. Someone to provide some leadership out on the pitch and hold players to account for their performances. Im sure if we had that kind of presence on the pitch, any problem with the manager would be mitigated to some extent because everyone would still be shitting themselves about the captain. We just dont have that kind of leadership on the pitch anymore.
Oh no the main reason I find his opinion interesting is due to his connection with the club and such.
The way I feel now is that he simply should never have been appointed but now that he is here I'm not sure what sacking him would achieve as there's no ready made successor available.
afraid not, i actually seen the entire interview on SSN myself.
he asked him can he turn things around and Eric said "i should say this, but no...i cant".
its very obvious what the question was and its very obvious what the answer was...its nothing to do with the journalist/interviewer at all. Eric could easily have said "of course he can turn things around, but he chose not to and thats very damning".
Its one mans opinion, hardly damming.
I'm still not quite sure what the question was though, were they asking in general or about this season?
one man, who played a huge part in clubs recent history. if he is thinking this, i am pretty sure theres dozens of others including the players who are thinking this.
the question, was in general and not the season.
I'm massively surprised Harrison has written off his chances of being successful then. Hugely.
And as much respect as I have for Harrison, I think I'll chose to disagree with him.
We'd be better off with Bruce as manager at this moment, quite a bit probably
lads, 6 year contract X £4.92million a year. anybody know how much Moyes would have to be paid off, IF he was sacked.
that has to be playing a big part, the club will just lose too much money and i believe it would be a huge reason he will be kept. getting rid of Round, Jimmy, Woods, Neville would cost a fair whack also.
have a look at the full interview if you can....first feeling is one of Pity for Moyes.
that has to be playing a big part, the club will just lose too much money and i believe it would be a huge reason he will be kept. getting rid of Round, Jimmy, Woods, Neville would cost a fair whack also.
have a look at the full interview if you can....first feeling is one of Pity for Moyes.
Moyes probably has a clause in his contract stating that if he gets fired he gets somewhere between 12 months and 18 months of his salary. That's fairly standard now especially with the longer deals such as Pardew's Newcastle contract. I would imagine the coaching staff might get 1 year too so the total bill for firing Moyes and his team might be in the region of £10m assuming Moyes gets 18 months of his salary, less if he gets 12 months.
It would hardly be a great surprise if Moyes' contract included clauses on results and CL qualification, making it cheaper to fire him if he failed. A few years back United moved to performance related deals, hence the reports in the papers today about players losing 25% of their salaries if they fail to qualify for CL.
i see but then we have the likes of macari who struggles to exude any sense of positivity. he's still workin at the club aint he
He hasn written off his chances completely though. He said "at this moment in time, no" key phrase being "at this moment in time"
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