17th & CL win will be a great season.
Moyes: Stick or Sack?
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
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17th & CL win will be a great season.
Right, 1 person out of 245 is the a great representation.
Take a look back the last few pages, how many people have said: give him till the end of the season, 4th or sack.
Certainly a LOT more than, let's give him as much as he wants regardless of results camp you're in.
Why with the rollyeyes? The Moyes out contingent is the most patronising annoying bunch of cry babies I've ever come across. Seriously, if someone disagree's with you you go on an attack using discrediting and outright lies to try to make the person look wrong rather than what they are saying.
I'm pretty sure I didn't say 1 in 245. Maybe try actually reading the post before replying like a scorned 12 year old girl.
Well when it becomes mathematically impossible for us to finish 4th or higher, he should be sacked that week. So he wouldn't be in charge of the CL final.
It certainly worked okay with Sir Alex last season.
Anyway, we're going around in circles, let's just disagree.
And why should that suggest it would work with any other manager this season?
You said you're 1 of the 245, and the people you know in real life agree with you, there's no indication those people you know in real life are others in the 245.
I merely said that I believe the majority of the 245 are in the 4th or out camp.
Also, a lot of people have already said in this thread they are in the 4th or out camp and voted stick.
Why shouldn't it?
A new manager takes over the team top of the Bundesliga or La Liga, where do you expect them to be positioned after half a season? Top or 7th!? Guess what, they're both top.
And I disagree with you on the basis that if one in four people I know are in the Stick category (it's actually higher) and none of them would sack if we finished fifth then it's fair for me to gauge that the 74% of those who voted here would be largely the same. That wasn't me referring to the 1 in 245, it was me referring to real life experience and knowledge, and transferring that to make a fair assumption based on the numbers here.
I'd say the vast majority of the 74% who voted stick don't believe we'll finish 4th anyway already so why would they suddenly decide to change their mind?
so we sack him then a new manager does shite so we sack them, and it goes on and on ,we have got to stick with him at least till this time next year or maybe just before Xmas .
I don't go with the rubbish that having Fergie in the stand is putting pressure on him, I don't believe that for one minute ,Being the manager of United is pressure enough
If he ever has to stop going to watch United because of this bullshit then its time for us all to pack up..
I don't go with the rubbish that having Fergie in the stand is putting pressure on him, I don't believe that for one minute ,Being the manager of United is pressure enough
If he ever has to stop going to watch United because of this bullshit then its time for us all to pack up..
You'd sack Moyes as soon as 4th place became impossible? Even if, say, we're in a CL semi final? That'd be mad.
Like I've said a few times, the number of people who have posted "I voted stick and would give him till the end of the season, but he has to go with we don't make 4th" or similar is much much higher than "He should be given 2-3-4 seasons regardless of how low United falls" or similar.
I've based my view on what people have said on this thread, you're basing it off your own social circle.
You're basing yours on what you want people to think. Wishful thinking on you behalf, but sadly 75% of the voters here don't agree with you however hard you try to twist their responses.
Yeah I didn't think of that until 1 second after I clicked 'post'.
Seriously, read this thread from page 1 and ask yourself if more people said "4th or out" or "More time regardless of results".
Also, do you think the majority of the 75% agree with your view of giving him more time regardless of results?
It's hard enough to read this page with your agenda posting without going back over every page in the thread or every other thread that you've turned into your personal crusade.
To me my view on sack at end of season if he doesn't get 4th would be based on if between now and the end of the season he doesn't show signs of making some decisions that will at least show some vision of the future.
If he continues to play with a singular modus operandi - get ball out right to to players that are not delivering, to at least not show he can get the players that he selects to be able to play with a little more speed, then to me that would be a reason to vote get the sack. He has to show some ability to drop players that are not cutting it and at least give non-form players, regardless of who they are, time on the bench.
Moyes talks about not scoring goals, not doing in the final third - obviously he knows whatever it is they are working on training but, anyone watching United today can see on the field is a very predictable way that is not producing many chances ultimately leading to very few goals and well goals win matches. Watching United we can see we don't play with any speed which results in defenses being able to limit us. He should be able to at least show that he can get the players at the very least looking to play at a higher tempo at the very least.
If he continues to play with a singular modus operandi - get ball out right to to players that are not delivering, to at least not show he can get the players that he selects to be able to play with a little more speed, then to me that would be a reason to vote get the sack. He has to show some ability to drop players that are not cutting it and at least give non-form players, regardless of who they are, time on the bench.
Moyes talks about not scoring goals, not doing in the final third - obviously he knows whatever it is they are working on training but, anyone watching United today can see on the field is a very predictable way that is not producing many chances ultimately leading to very few goals and well goals win matches. Watching United we can see we don't play with any speed which results in defenses being able to limit us. He should be able to at least show that he can get the players at the very least looking to play at a higher tempo at the very least.
Where did I say that? Honeslty, I've had debates in the past 2-3 days with 3 of you Moyes out brigade boys and everyone of you just creates stuff from thin air to suit your argument. Lying, condescending answers, wumming and agenda posting at it's absolute worst.
What would happen if we don't get through to the League Cup final and get knocked out by Olympiakos in the CL?
It is making people not come to the forums, IMO. Several regulars are notably absent and based on the pessimism thread, many have stated this is the reason.
You're the one who's trying to twist the majority of the other 244 people who voted stick into "agreeing with you" when most are thinking 4th or out.
That's great and everything... but considering he will most likely be getting a much, much larger budget here then he ever did at Everton, I'm not entirely sure how it's relevant... but I digress, Moyes generally used his money at Everton to build a small, very functional squad who were hard to beat, which made them competitive but would generally always see them fall short - I'm not sure they're the qualities we want for our side going forward.
Above that, how many of David Moyes' signings went on to play and be succesful at bigger clubs? I can only think of Arteta off the top of my head - which suggests that the calibre of player that Moyes had an eye for was very much of Everton's level, and no higher... which isn't exactly a criticism, as obviously you want players who have the ability to play for your club of course, but I'd suggest that most managers look to bring in players that are above their current level, and in turn will move the club forward - which I don't really think Moyes did after a certain point. True, his budget never really allowed for it, but I would have thought he'd have brought in one or two players that belonged at bigger clubs than Everton if you catch my point.
I'm not passing judgement and saying that Moyes won't spend wisely or build a good size if given money (I'm not going to use the Fellaini transfer as his only benchmark), but he hasn't done anything in the past that makes me beleive I should be fully confident in his ability to build a new Manchester United side.
It's a bit simplistic to say "4th or out", isn't it? That could still encompass a lot of different scenarios.
For example, imagine our play massively improves but we still narrowly miss out on 4th. However, we also have excellent results in both the cup competitions. That'd be much more positive than, say, finishing 8th, playing badly and getting humiliated in both cups. Both fall under "outside 4th", yet one is way more forgivable than the other.
For example, imagine our play massively improves but we still narrowly miss out on 4th. However, we also have excellent results in both the cup competitions. That'd be much more positive than, say, finishing 8th, playing badly and getting humiliated in both cups. Both fall under "outside 4th", yet one is way more forgivable than the other.
Same questions being asked then still as they are now I'd imagine.
Getting knocked out the CL by Olympiakos would be pretty much the tipping point for a fair few I'd imagine. Nobody really expects to win it but to get knocked out by a team we should beat with relative ease over two legs would make people push the panic buttons
I voted stick and I am on 4th or out camp (as likely everybody know) except in case our performances really improve but we just miss out (or if we win UCL). Don't believe that either of this will happen, but still I can't judge someone for something that hasn't happened yet.
I think that the percentage of stick on this forum will be lower than 50% on the summer if we don't qualify for UCL and continue playing awful football. Of course there are a lot more people than you who will say stick regardless of results/performances.
Really? Are football players who don't cost as much like snails or something? Or are they humans who are decent at playing the game? I get you don't want Moyes but try to approach the subject reasonably.
OH, so you're just using the point of not trusting Moyes with a large budget to RAM HOME THE SAME TIRED feckING POINT YOU'VE BEEN RAMMING HOME FOR AGES.
Okay, sounds good. Instead of using lots and lots of words and clogging up the forums with repetitive nonsense, just put, "Moyes is in over his head" and move on.
Exciting. We should discuss it at length. We should be discussing all negative possibilities at length.
The fact that you even compare our team to either of those is pretty laughable.
The title of this topic isn't "Moyes: Stick". Its Moyes: Stick or Sack?". If those scenarios somehow managed to happen then sack would become a real possibility to be honest. I still want him to have another season but those at higher levels may not wait till the start of next season, let alone the end of it.
Sack or Back might have been better, leaving the "don't knows" to go in the...
... Are you feeling well? I mean, what are you on about? I've made this point maybe one or two times, and by made this point, i've asked the question to some posters who have kindly responded with their thoughts... but away from that you're points are all over the fecking shop. For one, do you really think we'll be looking to buy cheap players? It's possible, but I doubt it, I imagine Moyes will want/need to spend big and so that's what he'll do if given the chance. As for approaching it subjectively, what the feck do you think I'm doing here? I've laid out a rationale, using his past experience, as to why I'd be concerned about the type of side Moyes might build, nowhere have I said that he definitely will feck it up or anything mind, so maybe calm down a bit and read.
What am I saying, you're right... instead of trying to debate what will happen to our manager/club going forward, let's just not talk about anything at all... that'll keep this forum nice and active.
Still, if you care to share with me this point that I've been ramming home... sorry RAMMING HOME FOR AGES, please feel free to enlighten me.
I voted stick, like others have said if he fails to finish in the top 4 then he should go. It should be the minimum requirement, I don't think anybody could blame the fans for wanting his head to roll if that happens.
Again, where did I say that we should give him more time regardless of results? You asserted that this was my opinion so I'd like you to tell me from which of my posts you garnered this information.
How could people possibly be pessimistic given the season were having so far? Crazy people, I tell you.
The problem is that it's every single thread. I'm not usually one for mega threads, but surely all this Moyes negativity doesn't have to be in every single thread in the United forum, the transfer forum and even a lot of them in the football forum.
If I was modding I'd lock half of the moyes threads, let all the talk go on in one or two of the others and put an embargo on any new Moyes related threads.
How can it not ? The team is in absolute free fall under Moyes and we've been everyone's favorite laughing stock is season. The only thing on everyone's mind is the job Moyes is doing. So it will naturally dominate the thoughts of most united fans, especially given hes replacing a guy who has been in charge for 26 years. It's way too idealistic to expect the forum, given the state of affairs, to be so non reflective of the current mindset of the united fan.
What I'd be like is for less new threads on the same topic.
Ah amol, I was in the Ronaldo thread the other day and Cal managed to bring up Moyes in it. There's a point when it becomes ridiculous levels of agenda posting.
On the front page of the United forum there's around 12 threads with the same thing being discussed in them all. If that was reduced to 2-3 and any new Moyes threads locked immediately the place would be a lot better.
I know, they all start with a slightly different angle which is worthy of its own thread but they end up being the same after a page or two.
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