Agree with that then. Bringing up Moyes in Ronaldo/messi threads is very agenda driven. If it came up in a Martinez thread it could make some sense. And the sheer number of Moyes threads is plain stupid and unnecessary.
Moyes: Stick or Sack?
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
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The Ronaldo thread is a constant reminder of how far we've fallen in the past 5 years...
The Ronaldo thread is a constant reminder of how far we've fallen in the past 5 years...
Your name is a constant reminder of an anti-Moyes shill.
Anti-Moyes? I've kept relatively quiet for months since he took over, trying desperately to give Sir Alex the benefit of the doubt (hoping he really is a miracle workers with the midas touch, if even Moyes can work... I kept telling myself).
However, after half a season, Moyes really hasn't done ONE thing that has given me a reason to continue believing he can (eventually) handle the job. In fact, he's managed to do even worse than I expected in my worst estimation and given how low I rated him before he took over, that's really quite amazing (in a terrible way).
Well, I have voted "Stick." There is no other choice. Being 40 years of age, I remember the lean years that we had and our only successes was in the F.A Cups. The days of Albiston, Bailey, Birtles, Stapleton, Coppell, Robson, McQueen, Moran, Robson et al. We had some great moments but even more disappointing moments. The most important is that you are there for the club as a supporter. Sure, vent your spleen at the current situation, vent your anger against the manager. The only thing that is a laughing stock is not the football being played by Manchester United at the moment, but the actual behaviour of those who want success immediately as if it is their god-given right. I am sure there are lurkers who are reading these threads and copying/pasting our posts, just as we did with the RAWK thread.
Beckham has gone, Ronaldo has gone, Sir Alex has gone, Cantona retired, Scholes retired, RVN has gone, Cole, Sheringham, Butt, Yorke, Veron amongst others have also gone. We have to accept the fact that we are supporting a team that has the same players, but with a different managerial mindset to last season. All I can say is this, for most of those who dislike Moyes or want him out, how many of those would have posted the same thing if a Manchester United forum had existed in 1986/87?
Beckham has gone, Ronaldo has gone, Sir Alex has gone, Cantona retired, Scholes retired, RVN has gone, Cole, Sheringham, Butt, Yorke, Veron amongst others have also gone. We have to accept the fact that we are supporting a team that has the same players, but with a different managerial mindset to last season. All I can say is this, for most of those who dislike Moyes or want him out, how many of those would have posted the same thing if a Manchester United forum had existed in 1986/87?
I say stick, but that doesn't mean I won't criticize him when I think he's not doing well. I think some of the criticism gets misconstrued as not backing him or calling for the sack. In retrospect, it looks like a terrible decision to hire him, perhaps for all the wrong reasons, but we're all in on him and there's no alternative available.
Irwhine, I'm one of those 75%, and I'm in the 4th or out camp too..
By the way, "4th and out" doesn't really mean literally 4th or out.. Clearly we mean if we keep going the way we're going now without showing any sign of improvement, and eventually missing out on the 4th place without finishing the season on a high note (and obviously not doing much in the champions league either).. So basically if we replicate the first half of the season.. IMO in that case we should try another manager to be able to convince good players to stay/come, because otherwise our recovery will be much tougher next season..
By the way, "4th and out" doesn't really mean literally 4th or out.. Clearly we mean if we keep going the way we're going now without showing any sign of improvement, and eventually missing out on the 4th place without finishing the season on a high note (and obviously not doing much in the champions league either).. So basically if we replicate the first half of the season.. IMO in that case we should try another manager to be able to convince good players to stay/come, because otherwise our recovery will be much tougher next season..
But that's a million miles away from 4th or out. That's actually pretty much where I'm sitting too Danny, but with where we are I think we'll need to see some improvement to even get 5th at this stage. The top four are all playing better football than us and all look likely to pick up more points than us for the rest of the season so if we can start to look better in the league, secure 5th or better, start to improve our football when we get the team back together, show some intent in the transfer market, get another round or two in Europe, spank those Sunderland twats and still finish out of the top 4 I'll be happy enough with the second half of the season.
Improvement must be shown.
There is something important though.. We're not far away from the 4th spot right now.. So if we end up missing out on the 4th spot (to teams like Liverpool or Everton, which I don't think are going to finish the season as strong as they started it) it has to mean basically that we did a pretty bad job, close to what we have done in the first half of the season.. Any real improvement from now on imo will push us at least to 4th place.
On the other hand, if we make the 4th place (somehow) but we don't show big signs of improvement, then I would still want us to keep Moyes (the other important part of the equation).
So practically, it is imo a 4th or out scenario, unless one of those close-to-imaginary-scenarios happen in the coming months.
I don;t hink 4th will be as easy to get to as you think. Even if Liverpool do go through a sticky spell we have to be so consistent to catch them. I just can't see this side regaining any consistency without new additions. They look lost.
Yeah, I disagree with Irwin, I think a sizeable chunk of that 75% would want Moyes gone if we fail to get top four. I'm not in that camp myself, I don't see what we gain from it, the squad will need a major overhaul this summer whatever happens so we might as well give him a chance to be the one to undertake it. His transfer record is actually very good (minus Fellaini), this current Everton team he built are an impressive side.
Oh please... credit Moyes for the Everton side he built sitting pretty above the United side Sir Alex built??
I think you're too pessimistic about it.. I still think we have a good chance of making it anyway this season. It's not a title race, in the races for the 4th spot there is a bigger margin of error.. Which is why I think if we miss out, then we have to have a bad second half really..
By the way, I think the chance is bigger that we're gonna make it to the 4th place without showing big improvements, than to miss out on the 4th and show big improvements in the coming months.
Oh please... credit Moyes for the Everton side he built sitting pretty above the United side Sir Alex built??
I swear to god, if I ever met you I'd jab them rolley eyes out with a rusty butter knife. Do you realise how much of a dick you look because of your constant use of them?
Edit: This is not a real threat or anything close to it.
Oh please... credit Moyes for the Everton side he built sitting pretty above the United side Sir Alex built??
Our position is entirely irrelevant to Everton being a good side, they were a good side last season when we won the league. You do have nice eyes though.
can the poll be reset to include
stick long term and give him time to rebuild.
sack if we dont get top 4.
sack now
stick long term and give him time to rebuild.
sack if we dont get top 4.
sack now
I think that with this correction it would be better (clearer) cause just sack if we don't get top 4 is a bit simplistic (though top 4 and improvements are related to each other).
Chill man, I won't post smileys in reply to you if you're that upset by them :lol (almost...)
I can deal with most of them. That fecking rolling eyes one does my nut though.
Thank you.
January will be key in his fate. Swansea, Chelsea, Sunderland and Cardiff.
in all fairness, improvement shouldnt be too hard, things cant get any worse. at the moment, we are facing up to finish 5th, technicallyt its an improvement, but its not saying alot...
3 league games yeah?
Need 6 points from them and to turn Sunderland over in the cup.
that Chelsea game could be potentially great for Moyes
get a win at the weekend
a fit Rooney, RVP, Nani, Jones to rejoin the squad
upset the odds and win at Chelsea and it will give us the belief to have a really strong finish to the season
the players have to start showing some character and Chelsea are beatable
get a win at the weekend
a fit Rooney, RVP, Nani, Jones to rejoin the squad
upset the odds and win at Chelsea and it will give us the belief to have a really strong finish to the season
the players have to start showing some character and Chelsea are beatable
This guy cracks me up.
A win at Chelsea would be massive, but it'll be incredibly difficult. Mourinho's never lost a home game at Chelsea in the league and I doubt we're going to go gung-ho for the win there. I wouldn't be surprised if Moyes was happy with a point away to Chelsea. As much as we need to be winning all the games we can now, a draw wouldn't be awful against them.
Yeah its our approach to games which could be a reason for our lack of confidence at times especially in the big games - a draw there would be a good result - would mean 6 points(?) in our games against the top 7/8 this season
a win would be such a shot in the arm for the manager and the players - can Moyes desire to win overcome his fear of getting beaten
of course the problem is the tight tactics employed by Jose - he almost plays for a draw and tries to pick the bigger sides off
True, although with our recent form he may feel slightly more confident of a win against us in this one and may play a more attacking game. It'd be a great win if we could get it, but unfortunately I struggle to see us going there and taking all 3 points.
Well by improvement I mean a bit more than just dropping Valencia and Cleverley which would be a big improvement anyway.
No doubt loads would have. There's a lot of people wheeling out this "I'm older and remember the hard pre Fergie years so we should given him years and it will come good" but we just don't know. What we do know is that hardly anyone in England or Europe would have Moyes still in the job.
I said we should give him to the end of the season but can't deny its damn worrying after each loss ticks over. We're getting beaten in all competitions, not creating a scrap on goal, being beaten by any Tom, Dick or Harry at our home stadium and the commentators are shouting out things like first win over United since 30 years ago every other week now. WBA, Everton, Newcastle all had huge landmark wins after decades and Swansea was their first one over us I think. Its pretty alarming.
The United way of not being like over half of the Premiership in terms of sacking managers, with SAFand SBC having Moyes back is one thing but it can't go on like this, there will be a time when either the board of the Glaziers sack him. Moyes is very lucky with the attitude MUFC has because even clubs like WBA are sacking managers after a few bad games, not just the sugar daddy clubs, this is the biggest club, so you'd think we'd be the most ruthless of the lot. Moyes is probably praying for Rooney and RVP to be back so he can get crosses in and get some points on the table. He's done well in the European CL though, so we'll have to see if the rot continues into that competition as well, although it is no on till the 25 of February so we may either see some good form, at least some decent football for a change or maybe he'll be gone.
I almost created a history thread, but it would probably just turn into the same thread by yet another name.
So, a little bit about how we stuck with SAF. I won't promise perfect recollection of all the thoughts and emotions but I'll make the point - prior to us finally winning the League, SAF won his right to another season, each new year. Sometimes in an obvious way, like an improved League position or an FA Cup. Sometimes in ways that maybe only the closest watchers of the club would have understood - like the revision of the squad, the phasing out of the drinking culture, the resurgence of the youth team structure.
But that's the point. It wasn't blind faith, or the United way, that kept SAF in charge - initially it was the sense that we were making progress, and yes a vague idea that if he could win things with Aberdeen he could do it again with us. Later it was gratitude, and the knowledge that he had won things, that protected him.
So, a little bit about how we stuck with SAF. I won't promise perfect recollection of all the thoughts and emotions but I'll make the point - prior to us finally winning the League, SAF won his right to another season, each new year. Sometimes in an obvious way, like an improved League position or an FA Cup. Sometimes in ways that maybe only the closest watchers of the club would have understood - like the revision of the squad, the phasing out of the drinking culture, the resurgence of the youth team structure.
But that's the point. It wasn't blind faith, or the United way, that kept SAF in charge - initially it was the sense that we were making progress, and yes a vague idea that if he could win things with Aberdeen he could do it again with us. Later it was gratitude, and the knowledge that he had won things, that protected him.
The seven matches leading up to the international break are huge. Four home matches against bottom half teams which we simply must win and three away games which are huge challenges. There's a chance we'll end that period with our (domestic) season effectively over.
The 2 most amusing thing I've read in the cafe today:
1. The failure of Moyes' half season at United is mainly due to Fergie leaving us a broken team with many problems.
2. The success of Martinez's half season at Everton is mainly due to the strong foundation Moyes has built over the years.
1. The failure of Moyes' half season at United is mainly due to Fergie leaving us a broken team with many problems.
2. The success of Martinez's half season at Everton is mainly due to the strong foundation Moyes has built over the years.
Well I think it's safe to say that the majority of the Caf' want Moyes to remain where he is, sense has prevailed.
I probably should've added an option in the poll for wanting him sacked should we fail to get top four, as many of you feel that way it seems.
I probably should've added an option in the poll for wanting him sacked should we fail to get top four, as many of you feel that way it seems.
Cool beans.
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