Macari is a twat and I dislike anyone, who lives near me, with that name so he can feck off
Moyes: Stick or Sack?
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
- Start date
- Status
Macari is a twat and I dislike anyone, who lives near me, with that name so he can feck off
True. I think the other point too is Moyes doesnt really have the type of player that epitomises him on the pitch. Sir Alex had that in Roy Keane and we saw the importance of that. Eventually it turned sour, but he was a shining example of what the manager wanted from his players and he earned and demanded their respect with his approach to the game in all aspects.
Moyes doesn't have that so you can imagine for him, it's even harder to garner any sort of respect from the players when you dont really have any one leader championing the cause. Moyes' cause more specifically. I mean you could look at Rooney but my guess is Rooney is looking out for himself more so than anything.
given how quick it all happened, how unplanned it was and how incompetant our CE is, i wouldnt be surprised if there were no such clauses.
clearly not all that bad > http://www1.skysports.com/football/...-moyes-in-contention-for-manager-of-the-month .... uh sure?
for those who support him staying on, i have a few questions.
if we were to lose against Swansea and Chelsea, would you change your mind as Cl football would then be almost impossible to achieve?
apart from the superlatives of "we are not chelsea" or "Fergie said" or "he needs time", what has David Moyes done so far to deserve your support or what makes you sure he is the right man for the job?
saying "there is nobody else" is not a valid answer also, i am sure we could find somebody short team until the summer to fill in. saving £20million+ in wages compensation also doesnt need to be mentioned, i am talking about actual positve reasons to keep Moyes for Moyes himself and not just because we are Manchester United.
right now, i am struggling to see any positives in him being our manager, but am open to get some from those who support him. the only reason i am supporting him now, is for the sake of the team and the club, but thats not enough IMO.
if we were to lose against Swansea and Chelsea, would you change your mind as Cl football would then be almost impossible to achieve?
apart from the superlatives of "we are not chelsea" or "Fergie said" or "he needs time", what has David Moyes done so far to deserve your support or what makes you sure he is the right man for the job?
saying "there is nobody else" is not a valid answer also, i am sure we could find somebody short team until the summer to fill in. saving £20million+ in wages compensation also doesnt need to be mentioned, i am talking about actual positve reasons to keep Moyes for Moyes himself and not just because we are Manchester United.
right now, i am struggling to see any positives in him being our manager, but am open to get some from those who support him. the only reason i am supporting him now, is for the sake of the team and the club, but thats not enough IMO.
for those who support him staying on, i have a few questions.
if we were to lose against Swansea and Chelsea, would you change your mind as Cl football would then be almost impossible to achieve?
apart from the superlatives of "we are not chelsea" or "Fergie said" or "he needs time", what has David Moyes done so far to deserve your support or what makes you sure he is the right man for the job?
do you honestly think he was/is the right man for the job?
saying "there is nobody else" is not a valid answer also, i am sure we could find somebody short team until the summer to fill in. saving £20million+ in wages compensation also doesnt need to be mentioned, i am talking about actual positve reasons to keep Moyes for Moyes himself and not just because we are Manchester United.
right now, i am struggling to see any positives in him being our manager, but am open to get some from those who support him. the only reason i am supporting him now, is for the sake of the team and the club, but thats not enough IMO.
if we were to lose against Swansea and Chelsea, would you change your mind as Cl football would then be almost impossible to achieve?
apart from the superlatives of "we are not chelsea" or "Fergie said" or "he needs time", what has David Moyes done so far to deserve your support or what makes you sure he is the right man for the job?
do you honestly think he was/is the right man for the job?
saying "there is nobody else" is not a valid answer also, i am sure we could find somebody short team until the summer to fill in. saving £20million+ in wages compensation also doesnt need to be mentioned, i am talking about actual positve reasons to keep Moyes for Moyes himself and not just because we are Manchester United.
right now, i am struggling to see any positives in him being our manager, but am open to get some from those who support him. the only reason i am supporting him now, is for the sake of the team and the club, but thats not enough IMO.
if he were to follow them up with another 4 or 5 wins then slowly yes....but we have 1 win in 9 games against the top teams - that is no CL form and to get CL, we need to win 5 or 6 of the remaining big games. if he can manage that and get us 4th, then he deserves another year or two to make us title contenders again.
but right now, if people were being honest, can they really say they trust him to be the right man to do this? i dont.
anyway, can you answer my questions now please?
And if we lose to Swansea at the weekend, or beat them & lose to Chavs?
Swansea will have their tails up after last week, it's not going to be an easy game to win, at the same time they may be a bit cocky which might improve our chances. I can't really see our standard of play improving markedly on Saturday evening. The rumoured rocket from Moyes in the dressing room after last weekend didn't appear to have any effect on the pitch 2 days later.
i think we will beat Swansea by the way and scrape a draw at Chelsea.
I already gave my opinion.. I think he should be given till the end of the season.. If he still fails to show any kind of hope for the next season (finishing below fourth would be a big factor), then probably best to part ways so we can have a better hope of attracting good players/convince our current players to stay.
If he finishes 4th or better, keep him.
Also another important factor, if you sack him now, whom would you replace him with?! Do you think that will actually improve our chances of getting to 4th place this season?
Yeah I think if we replace him with a quality mAnager right now it could well give everyone a lift and improve our chances at getting 4th.
However I do think we should keep him till the summer and decide based on whether we finish 4th.
However I do think we should keep him till the summer and decide based on whether we finish 4th.
If there were actual signs of improvement or attempts to try new strategies then the results would need to be put in their proper context.
Of course if Moyes isn't seen to be learning from these travails then it will become increasingly difficult for those who wish to resist...reactionary impulses shall we say. I myself want to be patient and ride out the storm, equally though the manager has to show that he is worth such trust [this last he is yet to prove and it can't carry on forever].
Point is, it's still early to sack him now, because if he turns it around in the next 2-3 games that will definitely revive our hopes in future improvement and getting in the top 4.
Once we sack him we can't "un-sack" him, and as long as there is reasonable hope/room for improvement which could change our opinion, we should wait..
Besides, like I said in my previous post, if you sack him now, whom would you replace him with?
Is there anybody available right now?
His "dourness"
No, I see where you are coming from, but IMO we're not getting anywhere by changing managers mid-season. We'll just have to tally the score at the end of the season.That's not bad is it?
Moyes is the problem if the players don't believe in him - it's part of his job to engender that belief. Talk about dumping most of the squad, and giving DM a vast sum of money to bring in players in his own image, who'll love and respect him, is insane. If Moyes is feeling chilly, maybe we should burn down Old Trafford to warm him up?
In modern football, most managers are transients, and individual clubs staging posts in their careers. When things go bad, they're sacked, and move on - those with a decent resume, to other jobs, perhaps lower down the managerial food chain; the rest have to find a new line of work. We should accept that reality, rather than trying to hammer the club into an outdated template at the cost of our immediate future.
If we're fortunate enough to hire a Fergie or Wenger, we've got another 'manager for life', but we shouldn't have to pretend that David Moyes is that man, when he's given every indication that he's not, and raze the club to the ground to provide a green field for him to prove himself.
In modern football, most managers are transients, and individual clubs staging posts in their careers. When things go bad, they're sacked, and move on - those with a decent resume, to other jobs, perhaps lower down the managerial food chain; the rest have to find a new line of work. We should accept that reality, rather than trying to hammer the club into an outdated template at the cost of our immediate future.
If we're fortunate enough to hire a Fergie or Wenger, we've got another 'manager for life', but we shouldn't have to pretend that David Moyes is that man, when he's given every indication that he's not, and raze the club to the ground to provide a green field for him to prove himself.
Sounds like a contradiction, you think it will improve us to change managers now but you want to wait until the end of the season.
so i am still waiting for reasons to keep him, apart from just the sake of it or saving money.
surely, seen as 75% of people want him to be kept on, they have actual reasons for doing so?
the poll itself needs more options by the way, im sure out of that 75%, theres alot of those who are not fully convinced he is the right man for the job.
surely, seen as 75% of people want him to be kept on, they have actual reasons for doing so?
the poll itself needs more options by the way, im sure out of that 75%, theres alot of those who are not fully convinced he is the right man for the job.
I'm pretty sure most of the 74% are in the CL qualification or out camp.
Considering how the result of the poll quickly changed after one loss, I'm not so sure..
Many people have posted dozens of entirely legitimate reasons for wanting to keep him if you can be bothered to read back a bit. Among them are "Fergie said" and "he needs time", they're not platitudes they're good reasons: SAF knows what he is talking about, trust his judgement; and 6 months after a 27 year reign is not long and there are plenty of explanations for why he is having teething problems, problems that may well have affected anyone who came in to some extent.
This might be bollocks but attempting to think from the clubs perspective, as in the board and directors point of view:
Because Moyes has proven himself to be a long term manager who is (usually) wise with the money he spends. He plans long term, rather than focusing on a season or two, making an immediate or short term impact but then burning out and moving on. At a club like Chelsea or PSG or Inter or City, this could be a great strategy. You get the manager in, buy big, push the players to the max, rinse and repeat.
At Utd we can't afford to do that. We need players to be here consistently, performing season after season. A £30m buy like Rio is given the go ahead because he's got world class potential but also because he's young and expected to be at the club for 10 years. There's value in that. Not like City spending £24m on Lescott and benching him a season later if they find someone better.
Moyes was at Everton for 11 years and built his rep on punching above his financial weight, buying unknown or unpolished diamonds and turning them into Premier League stars. But he is also well known for looking at his team 3 or 4 years down the line. You can imagine the Utd directors loving all of that. His first couple of years at Everton, for what its worth, were very up and down. It got worse before it got better. (17th place finish one year.)
Obviously, from a fans perspective, we want instant results and exciting football. We want some sort of sign, proof of the team going in the right direction. Atm it's not happening and its fecking frustrating. We can't do anything about it though if the board are set on Moyes apart from support him as much as we can, and stand by him, like Fergie said, through the good times and the bad.
Maybe. I don't think so though. Going by the comments I've seen it seems most are willing to at least give Moyes the summer to get things right.
It's a bit irrelevant anyway as there's no chance of Moyes being fired just for failing to make the CL places. Plus, whatever about an opinion poll on an internet forum, United fans in general have been very patient so far. I don't see that changing to such an extent that there'll be too much pressure for Moyes to continue.
I think things will get pretty crazy if and when we do actually finish outside the top four. At the moment, I get the feeling that there's still an underlying feeling of confidence amongst the footballing world that we will. United don't finish outside the top four. Even myself and others on here; we're all despondent and I've seen plenty of comments saying "nah, no chance of getting 4th like this" yet I'm pretty sure they still haven't actually acknowledged the real possibilities in the back of their heads. I know I haven't. feck Liverpool, we'll get 4th is still what I'm telling myself.
However, if things do get worse, I think it will get ugly. Saying there is "no chance" of Moyes losing his job if we fail to make top four isn't something I'm going to agree with. Although I do think he'll keep his job, particularly if Sir Alex has a big influence.
However, if things do get worse, I think it will get ugly. Saying there is "no chance" of Moyes losing his job if we fail to make top four isn't something I'm going to agree with. Although I do think he'll keep his job, particularly if Sir Alex has a big influence.
When we hired Moyes the club (and SAF) presumably had a list of qualities they thought made him the right man for the job. It's impossible for us to know what all those reasons were but it's safe to assume they were thinking long term, right? Everything we've done since then indicates that this is the case.
Furthermore, it doesn't seem like the club is particularly worried by our current predicament, does it? I would strongly suspect the club always knew this season had the potential to be difficult and that the squad would need quite a bit of reshaping. As such, they were never going to judge Moyes too harshly on his first season, particularly after he was unable to strengthen in the way they probably knew he needed in the summer.
So, a) Moyes was always intended to be a long term appointment and was only going to be judged on long term criteria and b) the club was/is unsurprised that this has been a difficult season but is far less concerned with this season than they are with the job they believe Moyes will have done within, say, three seasons.
In those circumstances it makes sense to stick with Moyes, no? If we reject short term criteria and think long term (as the club is presumably doing) then nothing that's happened so far should have had any impact on the way Moyes is viewed within the club. After all, any negatives so far are still short term faults.
We wouldn't have a clue really. Managerial availability are even harder for us fans to judge than player availability. Either way, I'd wait till the summer and then if we don't make the top 4, replace Moyes,
Yes, because we might as well give him a year now that we've given him a chance. I think he's the wrong man for the job but we might as well give him a proper go once he's here. It's just that unlike a lot of people here, I think a year is a proper go when the expectations are lowered so drastically.
And we'd probably be in a better position to get the quality managers come the summer. Although, it would make that persons job harder if Moyes fails to get 4th anyway.
Well, since none of the mods will open a poll for that particular question, guess we'll never know the answer.
Do you get all upset whenever anyone disagree with you (for good reason)?
Stick or Sack:
Moyes finishes lower than 4th but pulls off a miracle and wins the Champions League...?
Moyes finishes lower than 4th but pulls off a miracle and wins the Champions League...?
Considering I'm one of the 74% and pretty much every United fan I know in RL disagree's with you it's fairly evident for me.
Where am I upset? I just asked a simple question, do you never tire of saying the same thing over and over in every thread you go into. Even threads with no context for your moaning you still manage to do so.
Because he's only been in the job for 6 bloody months.
No other reason is needed. Managers need a bit of time to settle in.
Fergie included.
And no, he didnt inherit a championship winning side, but for those who cannot remember, we got worse, quite a lot worse, than we had been in the first few months after he arrived.
Do I think Moyes is another Fergie? No chance, but that doesnt mean I could say he wont do a decent job for the club, the only thing I can say is 6 months, including the disaster of a transfer window is too little time for anyone to judge.
I still think if we had tried to get Gill to stay on for that one window the story would be quite different now, it was the double change of the two main men at once thats really set us back.
Right, 1 person out of 245 is the a great representation.
Take a look back the last few pages, how many people have said: give him till the end of the season, 4th or sack.
Certainly a LOT more than, let's give him as much as he wants regardless of results camp you're in.
It worked for Di Matteo
Right, 1 person out of 245 is the a great representation.
Take a look back the last few pages, how many people have said: give him till the end of the season, 4th or sack.
Certainly a LOT more than, let's give him as much as he wants regardless of results camp you're in.
I'm in the 4th or sack camp. (Unless he wins the CL)
There wouldn't be enough space for all the potential "but what if's..."
- Status