Mourinho: "Luke Shaw a long way behind" | Shaw: "I will fight to the last second"

Status
Not open for further replies.
If he wanted Shaw out he'd have said nowt in hopes of not harming the fee he'd be asking for in the summer. If you don't care you don't bother lighting the rocket beneath someone's backside. Mourinho isn't one to waste energy on a player he doesn't care about and doesn't expect to be here. Even when he thought Schweinstieiger was a waste of space and wanted him to leave ASAP he remained publicly diplomatic.

It might be Shaw's last chance but if Mourinho didn't want to try and light a fire under him he'd have just said "He's training well but I have others training well, so it is difficult", and just moved him on in the summer. I'm not saying he won't be sold but I don't think Mourinho's comments are indicative of a man who's already resigned to selling him.
 
JPRouve said:
LVG never called him a fat ass, only the caf did. LVG questioned England's staff and the fitness work they did during the WC, he also said that he needed something different from his fullback and that required huge stamina.
Click to expand...

Nah, he clearly put the blame on Shaw himself.

During training at Washington's FedExField in the run up to Tuesday's meeting with Internazionale, Shaw trained away from the squad – which was divided into two groups – with the £27m summer arrival asked to perform runs along the left flank before hitting crosses into the area.

Shaw then sat out large parts of the remainder of the session. Asked why, Van Gaal said: "He is OK, but I am always a trainer-coach who sees individuals and what they need. He needs to be fit and is not very fit and fit enough to do what I want. He needs to train individually until he is fit."

With Shaw having been with England at Brazil 2014 and starting training at Carrington less than a month after the tournament, Van Gaal would not be drawn on whether it was a surprise that the 19-year-old's fitness had dropped. "I cannot judge that, but I see what I see. I have spoken with him and we have made a programme for him. He agreed with me," said the Dutchman.
Click to expand...

It was the press that wanted to create a story about how the hell he got so unfit on England duty but Van Gaal didn't bite. Seeing as he was the only England player who came back so out of shape his manager made a big deal of it, then it has to be all on him anyway.
 
Scarecrow said:
Agreed.

If I was Shaw I'd be angry and fired up to prove him wrong and not look like a bitch in front of everybody. It's not like attitude and intensity in training is hard to change if you want to. And public humiliation would be enough of a push for me. It all depends on him.
Click to expand...

He needs to overcome the psychological trauma of th
Scarecrow said:
He gets asked about Shaw every week - why he's not playing. It's not like he made a declaration. Just answering the questions.
Click to expand...

"why is Jose not playing shaw, I demand an answer", Jose finally answers "Why is Jose throwing Shaw under the bus, what a cnut"

and round and round we go.
 
Oscie said:
If he wanted Shaw out he'd have said nowt in hopes of not harming the fee he'd be asking for in the summer. If you don't care you don't bother lighting the rocket beneath someone's backside. Mourinho isn't one to waste energy on a player he doesn't care about and doesn't expect to be here. Even when he thought Schweinstieiger was a waste of space and wanted him to leave ASAP he remained publicly diplomatic.
Click to expand...

He certainly had nothing but praise for Depay and Schneiderlin, so there's an obvious difference here. Although it's a high risk strategy.
 
Womp said:
This was discussed in that thread created a few days ago about youth and wonderkids, I'm of a similar opinion and said as much in there too. It's a matter of if you're good enough, go out and prove it. If they are, they gain valuable first team experience and if they aren't, it'll become evident.
Click to expand...

Its becoming too easy for kids these days. A 17 year old shows some promise and soon enough he'll be given a long term contract with a decent side which will turn him into a millionaire in few months time. Few months later he might end up representing his nation and play with some of the best players in the world. That's not good.

Kids are kids irrespective whether they are studying for their A levels or kicking the ball at OT. Such sudden change in lifestyle has the potential to change their attitude, giving them the impression that they did it when its not the case. The fact that someone can make a great living by playing for the likes of Everton or Sunderland doesn't help talent either. Why should Luke Shaw bother working hard at United when he can take it easy at Southampton?

Hence why I think that United should distance themselves from youths. By all means, we should sign/encourage/help young talent to become world class. However once they are old and good enough to leave the nest, then we should allow them to leave. If needs be, we should sell them on cheap which would allow us some sort of leverage to put a minimum fee clause that we can activate at our own leasure. Such strategy would remind kids that they haven't actually made it yet and that you need to do more to play with Manchester United.
 
Minimalist said:
I think Shaw has been disappointing but Jesus Christ this is Brendan Rodgers level of poor man management.

I suppose the signs were there with the treatment of BFS and Miki.
Click to expand...

BFS who was a massive waste of space and Mkhitaryan who's been much better since being left out?

Great examples.
 
Why doesn't he go out on loan? To a championship club even. Not playing him at any level is not helping anyone.
 
Shaw's gone then in the summer.

Real shame, thought we had LB tied up for 10yrs or more when he signed.

Writing's been on the wall for months. Jose NEEDS to spend wisely in the summer and bring in a first-choice, top-drawer LB.

Sell Darmian and Shaw, Blind/Young can be backup.
 
He's definitely a goner, especially after being left out the team for Saturday.
 
It does prove that attitude and commitment are just as important as talent to be a top player. You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't have the right attitude to work hard and put the work in on the training ground you simply will not hit 50% of what you could be capable of and generally your career will be on a downward trajectory.
 
devilish said:
Its becoming too easy for kids these days. A 17 year old shows some promise and soon enough he'll be given a long term contract with a decent side which will turn him into a millionaire in few months time. Few months later he might end up representing his nation and play with some of the best players in the world. That's not good.

Kids are kids irrespective whether they are studying for their A levels or kicking the ball at OT. Such sudden change in lifestyle has the potential to change their attitude, giving them the impression that they did it when its not the case. The fact that someone can make a great living by playing for the likes of Everton or Sunderland doesn't help talent either. Why should Luke Shaw bother working hard at United when he can take it easy at Southampton?

Hence why I think that United should distance themselves from youths. By all means, we should sign/encourage/help young talent to become world class. However once they are old and good enough to leave the nest, then we should allow them to leave. If needs be, we should sell them on cheap which would allow us some sort of leverage to put a minimum fee clause that we can activate at our own leasure. Such strategy would remind kids that they haven't actually made it yet and that you need to do more to play with Manchester United.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, you can just see what a loan has done for Pereira for example, he's determined to come back and fight for his place, because it's made him aware he still has everything to prove.
 
STaphouse said:
BFS who was a massive waste of space and Mkhitaryan who's been much better since being left out?

Great examples.
Click to expand...

Much better than what? What is there to compare with? One half against city wherever whole team was completely outplayed? Bfs has been decent when he's played. Even if he was below par that kind of exile was completely uncalled for. Jose himself even came out and said he should have handled him differently.
 
devilish said:
Its becoming too easy for kids these days. A 17 year old shows some promise and soon enough he'll be given a long term contract with a decent side which will turn him into a millionaire in few months time. Few months later he might end up representing his nation and play with some of the best players in the world. That's not good.

Kids are kids irrespective whether they are studying for their A levels or kicking the ball at OT. Such sudden change in lifestyle has the potential to change their attitude, giving them the impression that they did it when its not the case. The fact that someone can make a great living by playing for the likes of Everton or Sunderland doesn't help talent either. Why should Luke Shaw bother working hard at United when he can take it easy at Southampton?

Hence why I think that United should distance themselves from youths. By all means, we should sign/encourage/help young talent to become world class. However once they are old and good enough to leave the nest, then we should allow them to leave. If needs be, we should sell them on cheap which would allow us some sort of leverage to put a minimum fee clause that we can activate at our own leasure. Such strategy would remind kids that they haven't actually made it yet and that you need to do more to play with Manchester United.
Click to expand...

Very true. One of the reasons Spurs have struck solid gold with Dele Alli is that not only does he have a massive talent, he has a great attitude to get better and is very ambitious. Without the ambition and the attitude he wouldnt be half the player he is. He is 20 years old but has improved in his second season in the top flight which is no mean feat as many other kids his age have fallen victim to the dreaded 'second season syndrome'. I know it's slightly off-topic but it's a fair comparison to make given their ages and the hype surrounding both players.
 
CS@SG said:
Which injury? The one in 2010/11, that he missed 30 matches? or the one in 15/16 that he missed 26 matches. How many season Valencia took to come back to his current form now? And I have lost count how many had complaint that "AV seems lost it after his injury".
Click to expand...
You missed the point completely if you bring Valencia into this discussion. Valencia's work ethnic is top notch. He came back from ankle break and got into top form as winger. He later got undone as winger but his work ethnic never stopped. SAF and other managers saw that his work rate and defensive attributes can still contribute for the team in other scenario. Defensive winger, wing back, flawed full back... he had been deployed. In the end, he even mastered to play as full back! It's not about form or attacking talent which Valencia has long lost; it's about the player's worth after applying every thing he has left! With Shaw, it just stops at commitment. Heard nothing about he has no talent, bad form...

devilish said:
Its becoming too easy for kids these days. A 17 year old shows some promise and soon enough he'll be given a long term contract with a decent side which will turn him into a millionaire in few months time. Few months later he might end up representing his nation and play with some of the best players in the world. That's not good.

Kids are kids irrespective whether they are studying for their A levels or kicking the ball at OT. Such sudden change in lifestyle has the potential to change their attitude, giving them the impression that they did it when its not the case. The fact that someone can make a great living by playing for the likes of Everton or Sunderland doesn't help talent either. Why should Luke Shaw bother working hard at United when he can take it easy at Southampton?

Hence why I think that United should distance themselves from youths. By all means, we should sign/encourage/help young talent to become world class. However once they are old and good enough to leave the nest, then we should allow them to leave. If needs be, we should sell them on cheap which would allow us some sort of leverage to put a minimum fee clause that we can activate at our own leasure. Such strategy would remind kids that they haven't actually made it yet and that you need to do more to play with Manchester United.
Click to expand...
I think you're going OTT with this. I don't think it needs to be this bad. Just that the young players need to be taught to know their places. No more easy to be given game at senior level just because it's against lower leagues. Those games would go for the first team players who need game time. If the youngsters want those game time, then they would have to work to get into first team by merit. Fight for gametime as first teammers.

More loan moves than being alright staying in the reserve waiting these so called easy games fell into their lap.

Of course, if for some bad luck, thing can't turn out well, then they should be sold with buy back clause.
 
Last edited:
Oscie said:
If he wanted Shaw out he'd have said nowt in hopes of not harming the fee he'd be asking for in the summer. If you don't care you don't bother lighting the rocket beneath someone's backside. Mourinho isn't one to waste energy on a player he doesn't care about and doesn't expect to be here. Even when he thought Schweinstieiger was a waste of space and wanted him to leave ASAP he remained publicly diplomatic.

It might be Shaw's last chance but if Mourinho didn't want to try and light a fire under him he'd have just said "He's training well but I have others training well, so it is difficult", and just moved him on in the summer. I'm not saying he won't be sold but I don't think Mourinho's comments are indicative of a man who's already resigned to selling him.
Click to expand...
It’s a fair point. He was usually complimentary on Morgan and Depay.


I just don’t really agree with the tactic to publicly criticise Shaw. Even if it is a JM trying to motivate him
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nah, he clearly put the blame on Shaw himself.



It was the press that wanted to create a story about how the hell he got so unfit on England duty but Van Gaal didn't bite. Seeing as he was the only England player who came back so out of shape his manager made a big deal of it, then it has to be all on him anyway.
Click to expand...

LVG never said that he was fat, it was about fitness and repeating efforts. The problem with Shaw is that he is too muscular for the fullback job. Also Van gaal praised Shaw for his work on the training pitch and said that he was an example.
 
balaks said:
Very true. One of the reasons Spurs have struck solid gold with Dele Alli is that not only does he have a massive talent, he has a great attitude to get better and is very ambitious. Without the ambition and the attitude he wouldnt be half the player he is. He is 20 years old but has improved in his second season in the top flight which is no mean feat as many other kids his age have fallen victim to the dreaded 'second season syndrome'. I know it's slightly off-topic but it's a fair comparison to make given their ages and the hype surrounding both players.
Click to expand...

Mentality is and always will be the most important thing in football, talent alone isn't enough for teams that want to win. If fecking Lionel Messi isn't good enough not to adapt his game and improve, no player is.
 
Another reminder that football is not linear and that spending 27m on a teenager doesnt equal 10 years of that position sorted. We took a risk and failed. Hope we buy better next time instead of going for the cool kids on the block
 
JPRouve said:
LVG never said that he was fat, it was about fitness and repeating efforts. The problem with Shaw is that he is too muscular for the fullback job. Also Van gaal praised Shaw for his work on the training pitch and said that he was an example.
Click to expand...

Was a bit tongue in cheek pal, he didn't literally call him a fat ass, but being fit should be the least expected in this profession. It was always something that irked me with Rooney too, difference being Rooney was an immense player, Shaw has shown nothing even close.
 
JPRouve said:
LVG never said that he was fat, it was about fitness and repeating efforts. The problem with Shaw is that he is too muscular for the fullback job. Also Van gaal praised Shaw for his work on the training pitch and said that he was an example.
Click to expand...

He said he was unfit. As far as I'm concerned that's as good as saying he was fat. It's down to a lack of effort and/or discipline either way. Which is exactly what Mourinho's saying about him now.
 
So long! Farewell! Auf wiedersehen goodbye!

I remember reading that he (Shaw) lives with like three of his mates in their own house with their own chef. He's practically living the ideal student life only he's obviously forgetting he also has to train and play for one of the biggest clubs in the world. Bummer!
 
Womp said:
Was a bit tongue in cheek pal, he didn't literally call him a fat ass, but being fit should be the least expected in this profession. It was always something that irked me with Rooney too, difference being Rooney was an immense player, Shaw has shown nothing even close.
Click to expand...
Rooney back in the day showed great desire. Rooney body type was not the fittest, but if you look back, he's leaner than Shaw at same age. Talking about age for age before Shaw's leg break.
 
By the way, not sure if everyone has seen this article in the Torygraph? The "inside track" on Koeman's success at Southampton, written in October 2014. Includes the following paragraph:
The Luke Shaw deal was similar but without the bad feeling. Manchester United's opening bid was £18 million. Southampton were happy to say ‘no' and confident that Shaw would not be a problem if he stayed. By the time the offer reached £28 million rising to £32 million, they felt almost obliged to say ‘yes' to Ed Woodward for player in whom they had their own concerns about diet, fitness and preparation. There was never any counter offer from Chelsea.
Click to expand...
 
Redlyn said:
Much better than what? What is there to compare with? One half against city wherever whole team was completely outplayed? Bfs has been decent when he's played. Even if he was below par that kind of exile was completely uncalled for. Jose himself even came out and said he should have handled him differently.
Click to expand...

BFS was not 'decent' when he played, he was a passenger.

Mhki is one of your most creative players so not sure you can use him to criticise Mourinho.
 
ti vu said:
You missed the point completely if you bring Valencia into this discussion. Valencia's work ethnic is top notch. He came back from ankle break and got into top form as winger. He later got undone as winger but his work ethnic never stopped. SAF and other managers saw that his work rate and defensive attributes can still contribute for the team in other scenario. Defensive winger, wing back, flawed full back... he had been deployed. In the end, he even mastered to play as full back! It's not about form or attacking talent which Valencia has long lost; it's about the player's worth after applying every thing he has left! With Shaw, it just stops at commitment. Heard nothing about he has no talent, bad form...


I think you're going OTT with this. I don't think it needs to be this bad. Just that the young players need to be taught to know their places. No more easy to be given game at senior level just because it's against lower leagues. Those games would go for the first team players who need game time. If the youngsters want those game time, then they would have to work to get into first team by merit. Fight for gametime as first teammers.

More loan moves than being alright staying in the reserve waiting these so called easy games fell into their lap.

Of course, if for some bad luck, thing can't turn out well, then they should be sold with buy back clause.
Click to expand...
Agree with you. The boy has talent, undoubted talent, but as you say does he have commitment and ambition. It all depends where your ambition stops and it becomes being satisfied with your lot.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He said he was unfit. As far as I'm concerned that's as good as saying he was fat. It's down to a lack of effort and/or discipline either way. Which is exactly what Mourinho's saying about him now.
Click to expand...

And you are wrong, it's not akin to being fat and he wasn't fat. Now on why he wasn't fit, it could be because he followed a training program that wasn't adapted, fullbacks need to concentrate on mid and long distances, they need to be able to repeat long runs(70m-80m) a dozen of times per game. And as an aside, someone like Benjamin Mendy should lose a little of mass, it will help him end games in a better shape.
 
Mourinho is asking too much from shaw , What attacking threat Young Darmian Or blind provide? Litreally none , he needs to go easy on young players like Shaw and Martial.

Young players need pressure free environment to grow and develop
 
prtk0811 said:
Mourinho is asking too much from shaw , What attacking threat Young Darmian Or blind provide? Litreally none , he needs to go easy on young players like Shaw and Martial.

Young players need pressure free environment to grow and develop
Click to expand...

Pressure free environment? Manchester United? Both words don't belong in the same sentence unfortunately, if they want a pressure free environment they should ask to go out on loan or move to a smaller club with less ambition.

We're one of the biggest clubs in the world, not a babysitting service. These lads are all adults now, they have responsibilities, they're not five, realise you get paid to play football and be a professional.

If I'm shit at work and don't do my job to the best of my ability my boss would replace me and rightly so. Don't see how they are an exception given how much they earn and the fact that they are all doing the job they love.

Feck, I don't even like my job and I have to do it because I will be broke if I don't.
 
JPRouve said:
And you are wrong, it's not akin to being fat and he wasn't fat. Now on why he wasn't fit, it could be because he followed a training program that wasn't adapted, fullbacks need to concentrate on mid and long distances, they need to be able to repeat long runs(70m-80m) a dozen of times per game. And as an aside, someone like Benjamin Mendy should lose a little of mass, it will help him end games in a better shape.
Click to expand...

It's exactly akin to being fat, regarding the point I'm making. Unfit and/or fat professional athletes all have something in common. A lack of discipline and/or effort. See post #306 for an article which references this being a problem for Shaw going back to his time with Southampton.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
By the way, not sure if everyone has seen this article in the Torygraph? The "inside track" on Koeman's success at Southampton, written in October 2014. Includes the following paragraph:
Click to expand...

If that story is true then I hope people calm down a bit and stop rushing to bash Jose. Added to LVG and Hodgson, that will be three managers plus the Southampton set up who had concerns over fitness and application. He really needs to sort himself out, I know he had a bad leg break but that does not factor when looking at someone's application and desire to get back into the team and prove the manager wrong.
 
prtk0811 said:
Mourinho is asking too much from shaw , What attacking threat Young Darmian Or blind provide? Litreally none , he needs to go easy on young players like Shaw and Martial.

Young players need pressure free environment to grow and develop
Click to expand...
Then he shouldn't be at Manchester United the CO92 thrived on pressure. The ones who don't end up at lower league clubs.
 
Womp said:
Pressure free environment? Manchester United? Both words don't belong in the same sentence unfortunately, if they want a pressure free environment they should ask to go out on loan or move to a smaller club with less ambition.

We're one of the biggest clubs in the world, not a babysitting service.
Click to expand...

That's not How we developed our class of 92 and host of other young players. Ronaldo should have never made the lineup with all his mistakes.
 
prtk0811 said:
Mourinho is asking too much from shaw , What attacking threat Young Darmian Or blind provide? Litreally none , he needs to go easy on young players like Shaw and Martial.

Young players need pressure free environment to grow and develop
Click to expand...

Nothing grows without pressure. I would say maybe a little less pressure but there seems to be an issue with his discipline. Look even when LVG was in charge didn't he get put on a fitness regime and diet to get his weight down and cardio up? (I may have imagined this)
 
prtk0811 said:
That's not How we developed our class of 92 and host of other young players. Ronaldo should have never made the lineup with all his mistakes.
Click to expand...

Shaw isn't fit to lace anyone in that squad's boots. Also, Ronaldo was utter shite at first but he worked his arse off. He is hardly comparable to Shaw when Ronaldo is the perfect example of a model professional, meanwhile Shaw is being criticised for not giving a feck.

If Shaw wants patience he should do his part and work his arse off.
 
Womp said:
Shaw isn't fit to lace anyone in that squad's boots. Also, Ronaldo was utter shite at first but he worked his arse off. He is hardly comparable to Shaw when Ronaldo is the perfect example of a model professional, meanwhile Shaw is being criticised for not giving a feck.

If Shaw wants patience he should do his part and work his arse off.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo Worked his asre off under the mentorship of sir alex ferguson , He was not a judge but a mentor to take pressure of him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.