Not surprised sadly. Shaw seemed out of shape every time I saw him this season. His body isn't up to the PL standards atm. Will he ever recover? Maybe the injury really left a bad mark and a young player who had power and speed as main weapons becomes almost useless when his body is not prepared.
Mourinho: "Luke Shaw a long way behind" | Shaw: "I will fight to the last second"
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I thought Shaw at one stage looked to have shrugged off some weight but did look a bit bigger again last time we saw him (in my opinion). They should put him on a special routine - sort of the opposite they did with Robbo early on to bulk him up. I still think Shaw can be a top-class defender and am willing to put his problems down to what was an awful awful injury. I do feel sorry for him being singled out though
The tweets regarding 4 managers criticizing Shaw is absolutely rubbish.
Two were talking about the same preseason when he turned up overweight. Pochettino never even questioned anything, dont even know why the feck he was mentioned in the tweet .
Lets just convineintly forget LvG praised Shaw for the hard work/attitude and his reaction towards the critcism just a month later.
Two were talking about the same preseason when he turned up overweight. Pochettino never even questioned anything, dont even know why the feck he was mentioned in the tweet .
Lets just convineintly forget LvG praised Shaw for the hard work/attitude and his reaction towards the critcism just a month later.
People are saying about how players are nurtured at United. If we hadn't won a few trophies in the early 90's would the CO92 have come through. We were in a position of dominance and SAF was the dominant manager, so nobody could question what he was doing or his judgement. They came into a winning side. Thankfully it worked. Now United are in a bit of a funk. Can we afford to be worrying about if a couple of kids come through, or should we be more worried about getting back to the top first and then bring kids into a club with a winning attitude?
You tried to spin thing different again. It's reported that Mourinho gave the players extra days into pre season, and some key players got carried away and got back out of shape. Mourinho tried to push Chelsea board for reinforcements which they couldn't meet & bought second choice/ third choice instead. So the keys players couldn't help. Squad players ain't up to the job... Chelsea logically put the blame on Mourinho. He of course was wrong with late pre season thing. "Get the best out of the players"? Harsh given majority of last seasons signings were out of the door in one form or another under Conte. Whichever positions we see Chelsea strengthen this past summer window, were also reported as positions Mourinho wanted the reinforcement for too. Go figure.
Harsh from Mourinho to speak about him to the press like this, but I have to believe somebody as experienced as José at dealing with difficult characters at the highest of levels has sound and logical reasoning for doing so.
Maybe he's tired of trying to motivate Shaw and this is his last desperate act to try and get his arse in gear.
Maybe he's tired of trying to motivate Shaw and this is his last desperate act to try and get his arse in gear.
On Saturday he exceeded last season's minutes (2.162' vs 2.101') and we still have a minimum of 12 games to play till season end.
But you know, Mou doesn't really trust youth and he's got it in for young players, just look at Shaw and how he's blah blah blah...
It is all well and nice counting the minutes, but didn't he start playing for us half-way through the season only once our squad was decimated to then cement his place because he was a threat and on an incredible scoring run?
I cannot imagine that he hasn't already spoken to him. This seems like a last resort move. If Luke is choosing not to listen then it is his loss.
Time to stick a fork in Shaw,his time is done here I think which is a shame as if it wasnt for the leg break it could have been a completely different story.
None of the other teams would have known much about Marcus Rashford, but his rise to fame has been so immense and sudden that now everyone knows about him. It was always going to be difficult for him this season, but Jose is still using him. He exploded on the scene and us as a club got plenty of publicity out of it. We have likely put him more in the spotlight than is ideal.
Aaaaand that concludes Shaw's United career.
I actually thought he could develop into one of the best LB's in the prem... but look like it was not to be.
Probably £15million max you'll get for him.
I actually thought he could develop into one of the best LB's in the prem... but look like it was not to be.
Probably £15million max you'll get for him.
Is that an offer?
What the feck is Soccernet?So now we're using rumours to beat Jose with?
You'll know when you're grown up.
I absolutely agree with this. I've always said that we shouldn't be thinking about trying to make youngsters work if we're not even competing at the moment. We haven't been playing at the level we should be for a few years and we can't afford to fantasize about having youngsters carrying the team to a treble again. That's not realistic. We need to strengthen our team with experience and talent, set up the winning foundation once again. And THEN we can work towards developing our U18s into first team members of the future.
So what you are telling me is that under LVG he played when the squad was decimated, while under Mourinho he has played more minutes even when the whole attacking squad was fit? And that's despite bringing in two more (Ibra and Mkhi) mature and accomplished attackers? And that shows that Mourinho doesn't trust him or play him enough, somehow?
What complete straw-man arguments.
Rashford has gotten a lot of game time under Mou, and received a lot of trust, despite our options up-front. There's simply no other way of seeing this, for me. I really don't understand how people interpret that differently.
I think it's too much too soon for the lad. Huge transfer fee to a big club, and lots of expectations. For a guy who doesn't seem that mentally tough, it can be daunting. Put a leg break in and things just get complicated. Unfortunately, Mourinho's approach is unlikely to work with this kid whose confidence is no doubt rock bottom after his time at United.
It's a real shame if he goes. I agree with other posters that perhaps we should send him out on loan next season. Let him get on with it in a less pressurised environment until he regains some confidence.
It's a real shame if he goes. I agree with other posters that perhaps we should send him out on loan next season. Let him get on with it in a less pressurised environment until he regains some confidence.
Even though I don't like it, I believe Mou feels he isn't training hard enough and doesn't have the right attitude. However, have to wonder how much of that is down to Mourinho's relationship with him. A one size fits all approach of tough love - get benched and work your bollocks off and get called shit will not work on everyone and probably looks like it's failed with miserably. It's too bad because none of the players Mourinho mentioned have shown even once all season a top level performance needed from a United fullback.
My biggest problem in all of this is that we are down to the business end of the season and right now the players are being thrown under the bus for the results, especially the youngest in the squad. That does not stand us no good.
For Shaw's sake I hope he finds a way out to a good team and realizes his potential. For United's sake, we need to really make a LB a priority in the summer because the mediocrity we have right now can't be the option for next season.
My biggest problem in all of this is that we are down to the business end of the season and right now the players are being thrown under the bus for the results, especially the youngest in the squad. That does not stand us no good.
For Shaw's sake I hope he finds a way out to a good team and realizes his potential. For United's sake, we need to really make a LB a priority in the summer because the mediocrity we have right now can't be the option for next season.
He needs games and consistent starts. I imagine it will be either a loan next season or (more likely) a Depay sort of deal with a buy back.
It's difficult to find good young full backs these days because most teams are attach minded. It would be foolish to let him go so young.
I agree he needs games. Myself and other posters wondered why he wasn't playing some games with the under 23s as we did in LVG's time here. Tim Fosu-Mensah is also another one who should at least be keeping 'match' fit by playing some games with the under 23s. However apparently, Jose doesn't approve of this - I don't think there's much common sense in this decision - but he's the manager so we have to put up with it.
But yes, Luke needs to play. If he's losing confidence or depressed or whatever, this is the best 'treatment'.
But agreed a loan would be best, it doesn't seem a great idea to give up totally just yet.
On Saturday he exceeded last season's minutes (2.162' vs 2.101') and we still have a minimum of 12 games to play till season end.
But you know, Mou doesn't really trust youth and he's got it in for young players, just look at Shaw and how he's blah blah blah...
So he finally passed amount of minutes from last season where his debut was 25/2/2016 vs almost whole this season now thats freaking impressive.
He HAD to give players extra days in the summer because they were exhausted at the end of a long season where he rarely rotated the squad, even though he had good players on the bench. John Terry literally played every single minute in the league. Ivanvovic too, except the five minutes of injury time where he got sent off against United. Hazard rarely got any rest until we had mathematically won the league. So did a lot of players.
Why are people so quick to jump to defending the player? LVG questioned his fitness, Hodgeson also backed it up and now Mourinho is saying the same.
We have a lot of youngsters at the club who are working hard for it and have not been called out. Then we have Shaw, a 21 year old kid on £70k a week, it looks like he has doesn't have the fight in him. "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard".
It will be a shame if he goes because you know that he will turn up at Everton or Southampton again and playing once a week , enjoying it and the papers will go on about "How United must regret selling".
We have a lot of youngsters at the club who are working hard for it and have not been called out. Then we have Shaw, a 21 year old kid on £70k a week, it looks like he has doesn't have the fight in him. "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard".
It will be a shame if he goes because you know that he will turn up at Everton or Southampton again and playing once a week , enjoying it and the papers will go on about "How United must regret selling".
Dont bother telling here what happened last season or last pre season,its a waste of time,the amount of Dorys we have here on CAF,they will forget it after 1 hour.
Beating fat and unfit makes it much easier to pick up injuries, not surprised he did his hamstring twice.
Just like how Mourinho lagged behind at Porto/Chelsea/Inter/Madrid? He knows exactly what it takes to win at the elite level so while you defend a couple of clowns that've managed to finish 7th/4th/5th he will boot anyone that's not dedicated enough to meet his standards.
Understandable. The problem is it turned out to be wrong approach to manage fitness, which we saw Mourinho with us didn't give player extended rest away from before pre season, who had to play in EURO, Copa America. These players don't have to start full training soon, but ease in with lesser intensity training to stay in shape. They pretty much just traveling with the team while having their rest
fully agree. I wrote something the other day about what we expect from each of our players. I suggested if we actually took some time to draw breath and write down on paper the players we have and their performance levels we will see exactly why we are where we are. The Pogba transfer fee has skewed the whole thing imo. We are not a dominant force even if the players that are not good enough played at their level. You could argue, that we should be higher if our players where the general consensus is they have potential, that we should be higher in the league but who is that really? Martial, Rashford?
I would be interested if we had a pole on another thread on which of these players rating out of 10 and who would get into top 3 sides or something similar.
I have had an attempt at it here: (put http infront of //)
//imgur.com/a/QSNsV
Added colour code:
Green = Yes would make it in starting 11 for top 3 sides
Light green= Would make starting 11 but not be a guaranteed starter at top 3 sides
Blue = might make bench at top 3 sides
Red = nope
I may have undermarked or overmarked subjectively but never more than by 1-2 points either way. I think it shows how we are lacking in depth if anything. This team will never dominate in its current state.
I think it's the opposite. He looks leaner than he was at 22 or 23.
It is when you apply actual thinking. He was competing with less players last year and he came in in place of Rooney when the latter got a knee injury that caused him to miss the best part of 2 months. Which also coincided with our FA Cup run.
This year he is competing for space with:
Ibrahimovic,
Mata,
Rooney,
Martial,
Mkhitaryan &
Lingard
And in theory with Depay too for the first half of the season. That is more competition than last year, which means more rotation.
The only forward players that have more minutes than him are Ibrahimovic and Mata. Yet somehow he is not trusted enough according to some people in here.
Getting the mata at chelsea treatment and rightly so. Time to sell him.
The time of expecting players just to stand up and play to the top level in a sole manner is gone. To be successful these days you have to play as a fully functional team.
As a team we have such a disoriented team. We have a tall and strong focal point striker with, 2 wide forwards who are not wingers. We have 2 box to box midfielders with no deep lying playmaker or defensive midfielder. We have a gung ho RB when most of our LB's are more defensive ( except young).
We will play players like smalling and jones when we have up to 80% possession.
The main fault is that Jose is not playing to the team's best assests right now. It's pretty much following his one way trajectory of all his other clubs ( where it's one way or no way); let's not be daft enough to confuse our youngsters Capabilities when tactically hardly anything suits them.
Jose will get it right next season when he buys more players that suit his style but it will all crumble because he is one of the least flexible managers around.
Conte's Chelsea is a perfect example of using the right players for the right tactics. The tactic is played with the right players. If it was Jose he would be playing hazard as a LM defending at LB. the extra games we played this seasons matters cr*p all- it's not like we played utterly amazing ever. Conte comes in tries a formation, changes the formation & suddenly players like alonso and Moses become vital components.
Do we have any vital components? Not really- our tactics seem to be about playing the best 11 rather than trying to outwit and out work anybody.
As a team we have such a disoriented team. We have a tall and strong focal point striker with, 2 wide forwards who are not wingers. We have 2 box to box midfielders with no deep lying playmaker or defensive midfielder. We have a gung ho RB when most of our LB's are more defensive ( except young).
We will play players like smalling and jones when we have up to 80% possession.
The main fault is that Jose is not playing to the team's best assests right now. It's pretty much following his one way trajectory of all his other clubs ( where it's one way or no way); let's not be daft enough to confuse our youngsters Capabilities when tactically hardly anything suits them.
Jose will get it right next season when he buys more players that suit his style but it will all crumble because he is one of the least flexible managers around.
Conte's Chelsea is a perfect example of using the right players for the right tactics. The tactic is played with the right players. If it was Jose he would be playing hazard as a LM defending at LB. the extra games we played this seasons matters cr*p all- it's not like we played utterly amazing ever. Conte comes in tries a formation, changes the formation & suddenly players like alonso and Moses become vital components.
Do we have any vital components? Not really- our tactics seem to be about playing the best 11 rather than trying to outwit and out work anybody.
I'd agree with your assessment of our squad mostly, most of the current players will eventually become squad/rotation and we will slowly upgrade with each window.
I think you're being a little harsh on the defenders, especially Rojo & Smalling, though I do agree they too will become rotation players, but they're not terrible players either. And I don't agree with Martial being bench player.
I think people have lowered their expectations for some of our players, a large amount of them have spent the season playing below their level and that falls with them, not the manager, and outside of their ability because some of our players aren't good enough - but they should still have the heart and desire to work hard when they are given their opportunity, and that's what frustrates me the most.
We're not going to win every game, but I just don't see players who are willing to do everything they can possibly do to win either.
Will be lucky to get 10.
Absolutely true but you're asking too much from the Caf here.
I'm happy to see Shaw leave. Drive and a real winning mentality are completely necessary if you're going to compete against the best and based on everything we've heard about Shaw over the years, he seems to be a million miles off.
He may feel resentment for Mourinho after this and that may spur him to kick on at a new club next season which will make it look like we've made a mistake, but I don't particularly care. Get rid.
He may feel resentment for Mourinho after this and that may spur him to kick on at a new club next season which will make it look like we've made a mistake, but I don't particularly care. Get rid.
I don't think Under 23's is that beneficial to be honest (apart from maintaining match fitness).
Take a look at Mamadou Sakho for instance. He was languishing in the Under 23's in the first half of the season which doesn't do him any favors as it's not the league he wants to be competing and it didn't do Liverpool much good as his valuation was stagnant as well. Ever since he's moved to Palace on loan, he's looked really good helping them with 3 clean sheets in his first 3 matches and a commanding performance against Chelsea. This in turn helps increase his valuation price or gives Klopp the chance to keep him due to his good form.
This is a scenario that I think would be good for Luke Shaw. Go on loan to get further experience, increase his valuation if he performs well or if he performs really well, you will have saved yourself going into market for a left back for 5-10 years easy.
And Shaw as an underachiever who does just about enough.
Yea I suppose I am unfortunately.
I'm not going to miss Shaw by any means tbf . The guy didn't succeed with us these things happen , so move on and get another player and let the guy look for his future in another club . Simple as that .
Fair enough, he might not be fit but his body shape means feck all. Every person is build differently, it's not because he has an arse similar to Kim Kardashian that he is too "unfit". You could be the fittest person in your team and still have a beer belly, it means feck all really.
Anyway, back on topic. I actually think Shaw will still be here next season. Considering his talent and age, there aren't many better options out there and we don't need the money. Hopefully Mourinho will give him the chance to prove himself and find the right attitude.
Anyway, back on topic. I actually think Shaw will still be here next season. Considering his talent and age, there aren't many better options out there and we don't need the money. Hopefully Mourinho will give him the chance to prove himself and find the right attitude.
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