Joe hart has been pretty poor there himself.
Mourinho: "Luke Shaw a long way behind" | Shaw: "I will fight to the last second"
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Joe hart has been pretty poor there himself.
Could have been true but players like Rashford, Martial, Bailly are all playing and all are young players.
Looks like it could be curtains for him. Disappointed.
On Saturday he exceeded last season's minutes (2.162' vs 2.101') and we still have a minimum of 12 games to play till season end.
But you know, Mou doesn't really trust youth and he's got it in for young players, just look at Shaw and how he's blah blah blah...
Maybe, but it shows he is motivated.
What about rooney? Does he deserved to come on in that game ?
On Saturday he exceeded last season's minutes (2.162' vs 2.101') and we still have a minimum of 12 games to play till season end.
But you know, Mou doesn't really trust youth and he's got it in for young players, just look at Shaw and how he's blah blah blah...
Funny thing was some Chelsea fan on this forum was saying how Rashford wasn't playing at all, when pointed out the mins he played then moved the goal post to he isn't playing big games. When pointed out he played many big games then the goal posts were moved again to he is playing out of position.
People will go to any length to prove their agenda.
Clearly, Mourinho doesn't rate Shaw and wants rid of him but doesn't that make his comments a bit stupid. Surely, he should be talking him up for prospective buyers or at least saying nothing and attacking him in private.
Rooney isn't good enough for us anymore. He was the only attacking option unfortunately.
Absolutely no need for that.
Sir Alex Ferguson was soft himself for many players with great ability, And we are not where we want to be has nothing to do with luke shaw because its the attacking players who are letting us down game after game not the defenders.
Fellnai Rooney has been shit all season what makes you think they have a great attitude now ?
Our LB position has been an issue for years now. Fellaini and Rooney are different cases because no-one expects anything more from Fellaini, he's an established footballer who's already reached his potential and he's hardly been shit all season. He was very good at the start of the season, didn't play as much when we moved to a 3 man midfield, then has been decent to good the past few games he's played. Rooney is different because he's finished and in his 30's, hardly comparable to a "kid", to use your language, who should be fit and firing to go.
Thinking this is just a game of reverse psychology from Jose... A test of his mental attitude hopefully. Either catch yourself on now you have been called out or go sulk and feck off somewhere else.
Hoping he stays and busts his balls tbh
Hoping he stays and busts his balls tbh
No, people maybe forget how brilliant he was right up until that terrible injury.
Fellaini has actually been pretty decent. It is the fact he isn't your archetype Manchester United footballer that people have a problem with. Rooney I agree has been woeful. Actually somebody should remind Luke that this is what he might look like down the line if he isn't careful.
What about 300 m rooney Who is a united and england captain yet for years and years fails to take care of his own body which is earning him that sort of money but has done nothing since he got that money that he actually deserved to get that money?
Shaw's best days are yet to come but a person who's best days are behind him is a greater culprit
What the feck? i mean the truth is infront of your eyes but people are still trying to find fault in mourinho. He has been lazy, fanzines are filled with rumours of him not being able to control his habits of eating fast food, he is famously called Luke "PIZZA" shaw by a very famous fanzine. its not the first time a young player has attitude problems, it wont be the last. He became friends with depay who also has some mental problems and it was like for like company. For all his talent he lacks any sort of application and has mentality of a potato. The first thing you need to succeed is attitude, If quaresma had ronaldo's attitude he would be on equal level, ravel morisson, mads timm,januzaj all have been down this road and rather than accept it, people are calling for conspiracy and manager's prejudice.
What has mou got to gain with any prejudice? one less option at a problematic position? need to spend even more money? selling a talented player just because he wants to? I dont get it. Its stupid to think of conspiracy theories the fact is luke shaw has a problem and unless he does not solve it, he does not deserve to be earning the money he is earning, playing for the club he playing for or getting the fans backing that he is getting.
Now you are moving the goalposts. What has attacking players go to do with Shaw being slated?
And for the record, he said his attacking players let him down in last match. Called them for lack of consistency and dropping 2 points.
To be fair to Rooney he will finish his career as Utd's all time record goal scorer so I don't think anybody should be comparing him with Luke Shaw.
Only thing comparable about the two was they both haven't always looked after themselves as professional footballers should. The difference being Rooney was one of the greatest players of his generation and Shaw can't even get a game for us when we don't even have another LB to challenge him.
Shaw wasn't even that good to begin with IMO.
Usual disclaimers:
Jose has forgotten more about football than I will ever know.
I have no idea what Shaw looks like in training.
I have no idea what kind of stimuli will motivate him to improve.
He was only answering a question - what he said was hardly a vicious attack, in any context except the coddled world of footballers.
Having said all that, I was surprised and a bit disappointed by the comments. Ill be surprised if Shaw is still with us next season, and Ill be similarly surprised if he doesnt prove himself a very good left back wherever he does end up.
Jose has forgotten more about football than I will ever know.
I have no idea what Shaw looks like in training.
I have no idea what kind of stimuli will motivate him to improve.
He was only answering a question - what he said was hardly a vicious attack, in any context except the coddled world of footballers.
Having said all that, I was surprised and a bit disappointed by the comments. Ill be surprised if Shaw is still with us next season, and Ill be similarly surprised if he doesnt prove himself a very good left back wherever he does end up.
When at such a young age your given a £160k a week contract it is easy to see why he isn't motivated any more.
Not all young players are like that but money does change people
Not all young players are like that but money does change people
Bastian got back to first team since he worked hard. He got into matchday squad from time to time too. Was he better than our starting midfielders? It's opinion matter. Mine is he was physically shot and only managed some odd game. You have Carrick (offer similar thing to Bastian and needs help with physical play) Fellaini (offer that physical play) ahead of him when it came to midfield back up options. YOu have Mikhi, Mata, Rooney, Lingard who need game time as second forward, number 10 too.
Young who worked hard but at time we had enough option for the match day squad, you got Mourinho came out speaking about how sorry he felt for Young at time.
In case, he himself just doesn't put his name into the contention by working hard in training...
LVG did say in previous season regarding his fitness. He did well summer into LVG second season and LVG acknowledged it, but doesn't mean that would be enough for other managers. Under LVG, despite playing possession football, the teams seems like ill trained physically. Sometimes looks like running out of steam just by one half. Rarely played good the whole 90 minutes. At best one half of good football. Perhaps not coincidence that beside physical freak Valencia, our fullbacks struggled with fitness under LVG. Anyone remember the infamous full back subs every game?
Personally trained is one thing, applying it to professional football is another thing. You got Adnan who joined Luke in same summer fitness training, Rooney doing personal training before WC, Hagreaves PR himself for a job... it didn't change a thing for these players in the big scheme. Perhaps, it takes much more than those personal trained course?!
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So he is on 160K per week, within few hours he will be on more than Rooney.
Fully expect him to go to Spurs and within a few months he's in the best shape of his career. Mourinho has to take responsibility for failing to find the right approach to motivate Shaw because he looked perfectly fine last year. Far from where we want him to be but on a perfectly reasonable trajectory for his career so far. Mourinho's clearly played a role in destroying his confidence and motivation. It may be for the greater good but it seems very short-sighted.
It is pretty sad that the entire focus has been shifted on Jose, Shaw and Man Utd, when everyone should have been laughing at Arsenal fans fighting each other over Wenger.
This is such a huge shame because Shaw is a wonderful talent, the sort that should be dominating our left flank for years to come. Hopefully Jose has treated him well and not "regretfully" as he did with Schweinstieger. If the player does indeed lack commitment then he's an utter moron given he had the world at his feet given how complete is game was at the age of 19/20.
LvG had the same problems. That first season he wasn't earth shattering. It was only the second one up to the leg break that we saw a more focused Luke. I think he badly wanted to go to Chelsea, was friends with Memphis who is then sold by the guy who didn't want him at Chelsea. Chance he has gone into a massive sulk. He needs to snap out of whatever is stopping his progress and quick. He might go somewhere else and come good, but I would rather be a success at Manchester United than anywhere else.
That's what i am harping about for some time now , The difference between a mentor and a judge.
How does Mourinho justify That he dint deserved to get sacked at chelsea as perceived by them that he failed to get the best out of the players and deseved time to turn it around but does the same thing to shaw ?
That's why I'm never completely sure whether it's the player or the manager at fault with Jose. Noone here felt martial had a bad attitude last season. He tracked back as well as any attacker we had.
Really hope Jose is right on this one. Shaw is a huge talent and our rivals will know that.
I have faith in Mourinho as a manager to at least have us competing again, but I think it's abundantly clear he has little patience in most young players and gives them very little chance to re-establish themselves as serious options in his eyes. It's just a facet of his game he has little interest in or just lacks ability to do so. It's fine - we don't need to skirt around it or justify it.
Maybe in the Summer when his agent is reporting back to him that he'll be looking at a 30% drop in salary if he moves away from United; he'll get his head down, work harder and be raring to go by pre-season.
He has given Rashford a lot of chances so I'm hoping there's hope still for Mourinho developing young players at United. Although Rashford has been pretty wank under him.
Rooney in his young age worked very hard too IIRC. He looks leaner at Luke's age. Just that his gene would eventually outdo him, and when he took his head away from football, it escalates the decline. Rooney did well for most part to get where he was.
Why even brought Rooney into this? Rooney worked his way to where he was. He might look unfavoured next to Zlatan or Ronaldo, but no way he didn't deserve where he was.
The problem with Rooney post SAF was mismanagement by Moyes & SAF giving him a new long contract and undroppable status. He was not our captain under SAF bar few occasions. If anything, Mourinho should get credit for undoing some of that bad management of previous managers. Rooney is no long undroppable.
Our options last game was nothing with the suspension and Mata's injury. Rooney could be unprofessional with his lifestyle outside the club, but it's reported abundantly he worked very hard in training. That is the same under Moyes, LVG, even Zlatan did say the same in some interview
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Hehehe! That's Jose Mourinho! The manager who's specialised at creating buzz and fighting with players everywhere he has been! Now he's at his dream place where his ego will marginalise any player who'll not respond to his demands without having to worry about the board; but at the end, the reality is that if he doesn't deliver success, then the same board will not hesitate to show him the door!
Yes we can question Shaw's commitment, but is it really necessary to come out in public and talk about it?
It was Mkitharyan, Smalling, BastIan, Martial and now Shaw, so who's next?
Jose surely has his reasons to do this but by proper experience I think this is a bad management and one of the reason he always created unnecessary conflicts with so many players in his previous club! He's the manager who managed to fall out with CR7 and did the same with several players!
Jose is our manager and we have to give him all the support he needs, but let not be harsh on judging our players!
He can say whatever he want but at the end, we will only believe his words when he'll start to deliver! Let not forget that LVG sold so many players and we applauded him, now we're here scratching our heads when Jose come out and say it was a mistake!
I really hope next year we hear more about the results then player's attitude and commitment! I am really now starting to realise how I miss SAF!
Yes we can question Shaw's commitment, but is it really necessary to come out in public and talk about it?
It was Mkitharyan, Smalling, BastIan, Martial and now Shaw, so who's next?
Jose surely has his reasons to do this but by proper experience I think this is a bad management and one of the reason he always created unnecessary conflicts with so many players in his previous club! He's the manager who managed to fall out with CR7 and did the same with several players!
Jose is our manager and we have to give him all the support he needs, but let not be harsh on judging our players!
He can say whatever he want but at the end, we will only believe his words when he'll start to deliver! Let not forget that LVG sold so many players and we applauded him, now we're here scratching our heads when Jose come out and say it was a mistake!
I really hope next year we hear more about the results then player's attitude and commitment! I am really now starting to realise how I miss SAF!
I won't lie, I'm genuinely worried. To keep this in the Shaw thread, I expected a more "nurturing" type of management towards these 3 rather young players.
In slight detail: Shaw could have gotten the end of a few more matches. Rashford too could have come on for a mis-firing Ibra around the 70th minute in quite a few games early-on in the season, but even when leading he is played on the left, with Ibra kept on (regardless of the score).
Martial, is the most annoying case for me, the few times he put in a decent enough shift on the left he was dropped for the next match. Not even a chance of getting consistency. It wouldn't bother me as much if we had a decent candidate for the left wing, but he seems to me our most threathning player coming in from that side. I have seen Mkhi, Mata, Lingard not be a threat at all when deployed on the left over him. Rashford tries hard, and is the second best option, but Martial actually cuts-in, goes wide and puts in a better delivery.
In the premier league :
I expected Shaw to atleast provide glimpses of what he looked like when he started under LvG last season : Not happening.
I expected Rashford and Martial to atleast contribute to 10 goals each (though either assist, key pass or goal) : Not happening.
Yep but I still feel like it could have been a what if with Wayne. All those smokes and the alcohol etc, it surely must have hampered his ability. He was still world class at one stage but he could have been more imo.
Shaw isn't even comparable though
It is inevitable that Wayne will fatten up when he retires, as you say it is in the genes. He seemed to get a bit complacent as he got older and the contracts got bigger and longer. When we first got him and the first few years he was brilliant, a physical monster (in a good way) and could pull a genius moment out of nothing.
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