Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Powderfinger said:
Fair play to Liverpool, they deserve to be leading the league and have had a great season. If we had equal luck in terms of injuries to the most important players and equality in terms of penalties and red cards, I think we'd probably be a bit ahead of them. But that's not how football works.
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Disagree on the injuries bit - our most important players (Salah and VVD) are just extremely (rare) durable players (in VVD's case apart from that one ACL injury), which is just another skill and not just luck to stay healthy. Not saying Saka isn't but if our most important players consistently play 35+ games in a league season it's not "they had luck in terms of injuries to their most important players" anymore.

Apart from Salah and VVD, we missed our top 3 GK in the world for (I'm guessing here) to months or so, TAA was out for a month, Konate was out during the most busy stretch of the season, Szoboszlai has missed time, our most clinical striker is constantly injured on and off, and fringe players like Elliott have also missed time. The majority of our strongest XI has been injured at some point in the season.

Congrats on the win by the way, didn't watch the game but certainly looks an impressive scoreline. Was hoping for a City win or (ideally) draw as that could've put some serious daylight between us if we win the Everton game, now it's still a legit title race if we drop points at Goodison. I do have to admit that I've become very annoyed by Arsenal this season while I was largely indifferent and actually had some sympathy for you lot in the seasons before this one. Maybe it's just because you're our main rival this season and we haven't had that in recent memory, but a lot of Arsenal fans on Twitter are complete conspiracy bellends when it comes down to LiVARpool and your own VAR decisions (clear handball for Havertz a few weeks ago and 3 clear fouls imo when Havertz scored that non-goal against us which is kept being brought up time and time again). Also imo the behaviour today was very smalltime (Haaland celebration, playing humble after game), but maybe that's just me and I'd love it if I was an Arsenal fan, dunno.

Anyway, you can say what you want about Arteta, and I don't think Arsenal has played particularly great football for quite a few games this season, but he once again has you competing for the third or fourth year in a row I believe, so that has to count for something. With a squad that's less talented than City's or ours imo.
 
Our margin for error was always slim but the points dropped at home to Everton and Villa look like killers to me. Seems very likely that it's just too big a gap, but football changes incredibly quickly. Like G-Nev was saying on the comms last night, we just have to be there in case Liverpool slip up. Whatever happens, Arteta has done an incredible job in what most people forget is his first management role.
 
Think Pool have done well this season. Slot has mostly kept a working system with a few tweaks. They have definitely benefited obviously from City and us having a weak season but you take what you are given. Salah being on top form doesn't hurt either.

We definitely have had major injury issues this year....and it's been a struggle at times. I saw a change yesterday though in the mentality in that second half. It was a more ruthless approach where you stay on top of your opponent, which I much prefer than backing off, letting the opponent dictate the play and try to break up the game. I am a bit done seeing that and hopefully the Villa game was a good lesson. Hope we kick on.
 
Changeisgood said:
Think Pool have done well this season. Slot has mostly kept a working system with a few tweaks. They have definitely benefited obviously from City and us having a weak season but you take what you are given. Salah being on top form doesn't hurt either.
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And you?

You have 50 points after 24 games, that was 52 points at the same stage last season. You're having a season which is pretty much exactly what's expected and par for the course.
 
Changeisgood said:
Think Pool have done well this season. Slot has mostly kept a working system with a few tweaks. They have definitely benefited obviously from City and us having a weak season but you take what you are given. Salah being on top form doesn't hurt either.

We definitely have had major injury issues this year....and it's been a struggle at times. I saw a change yesterday though in the mentality in that second half. It was a more ruthless approach where you stay on top of your opponent, which I much prefer than backing off, letting the opponent dictate the play and try to break up the game. I am a bit done seeing that and hopefully the Villa game was a good lesson. Hope we kick on.
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Don't want to derail the thread so will leave it to one post, but you're doing Liverpool a disservice there. Based on points per game we would win the title compared to City's points total last season. Even looking at the table compared to this stage last season and we're still sitting with a better points per game total than City.
 
RobinLFC said:
Disagree on the injuries bit - our most important players (Salah and VVD) are just extremely (rare) durable players (in VVD's case apart from that one ACL injury), which is just another skill and not just luck to stay healthy. Not saying Saka isn't but if our most important players consistently play 35+ games in a league season it's not "they had luck in terms of injuries to their most important players" anymore.

Apart from Salah and VVD, we missed our top 3 GK in the world for (I'm guessing here) to months or so, TAA was out for a month, Konate was out during the most busy stretch of the season, Szoboszlai has missed time, our most clinical striker is constantly injured on and off, and fringe players like Elliott have also missed time. The majority of our strongest XI has been injured at some point in the season.

Congrats on the win by the way, didn't watch the game but certainly looks an impressive scoreline. Was hoping for a City win or (ideally) draw as that could've put some serious daylight between us if we win the Everton game, now it's still a legit title race if we drop points at Goodison. I do have to admit that I've become very annoyed by Arsenal this season while I was largely indifferent and actually had some sympathy for you lot in the seasons before this one. Maybe it's just because you're our main rival this season and we haven't had that in recent memory, but a lot of Arsenal fans on Twitter are complete conspiracy bellends when it comes down to LiVARpool and your own VAR decisions (clear handball for Havertz a few weeks ago and 3 clear fouls imo when Havertz scored that non-goal against us which is kept being brought up time and time again). Also imo the behaviour today was very smalltime (Haaland celebration, playing humble after game), but maybe that's just me and I'd love it if I was an Arsenal fan, dunno.

Anyway, you can say what you want about Arteta, and I don't think Arsenal has played particularly great football for quite a few games this season, but he once again has you competing for the third or fourth year in a row I believe, so that has to count for something. With a squad that's less talented than City's or ours imo.
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Think it's a combination of things. Of course you've had injuries, but they don't seem to be of the number where you've had to go a bit patchwork in games like what we have. I've not looked in depth but you defo seem to have more of say your first 9 or 10 players available most weeks.

However, in saying that, i think your squad is stronger than Arsenal's to cope with injuries, especially in the attacking areas, and that's not luck, that's through design and good squad planning, and obviously you can say the reverse about us in that regard. That's on us and our lack of recruitment in the attacking areas that can make our game look a bit stifled and predictable at times.
If nothing else we've been able to see what the likes of Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly can do, and they will be valuable team / squad additions going forward, but we shouldn't have left ourselves so short.

I don't think it's an unfair comparison of both sides seasons so far, and i think most Arsenal fans are giving Liverpool lots of credit for where they are. It's fully deserved, we just wish the fine margins had gone our way that would see us be closer, but you are certainly where you deserve to be.
 
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Liverpool have been excellent and absolutely deserve to be top. No arguments here. 6/9 points ahead with 42/45 left to play for. It's a great position and not luck that they're there.
 
I had them tipped to win the league this season. They won't win it this season but they'll probably win it next season.
 
Ghirahim said:
I had them tipped to win the league this season. They won't win it this season but they'll probably win it next season.
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Based on what is it probable that they'll win it next season?

City won't have two offseasons in a row (if they're not hit with a points deduction or relegation) and Chelsea's core will be a year older and better adapted to each other. Uncertain how competitive Liverpool will be but we aren't going anywhere either if we retain VVD and/or Salah.
 
RobinLFC said:
Based on what is it probable that they'll win it next season?

City won't have two offseasons in a row (if they're not hit with a points deduction or relegation) and Chelsea's core will be a year older and better adapted to each other. Uncertain how competitive Liverpool will be but we aren't going anywhere either if we retain VVD and/or Salah.
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If City win the title next season after this season's display, Rodri has to be given the next Ballon d'or and the award should be retired right after.
 
RobinLFC said:
Based on what is it probable that they'll win it next season?

City won't have two offseasons in a row (if they're not hit with a points deduction or relegation) and Chelsea's core will be a year older and better adapted to each other. Uncertain how competitive Liverpool will be but we aren't going anywhere either if we retain VVD and/or Salah.
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I just think Arsenal might win it next season because they've come so close 3 in a row.

And Salah is leaving at the end of this season buddy...

Mohamed Salah Confirms He Will Leave Liverpool at the End of the Season
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https://www.beinsports.com/en-us/so...liverpool-at-the-end-of-the-season-2025-01-03
 
erikcred said:
If City win the title next season after this season's display, Rodri has to be given the next Ballon d'or and the award should be retired right after.
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They were bad for a month and a half and bought 3 players for a combined €152m. It's not like they'll be going into next season with the same squad (and deficiencies) as they currently have.
 
RobinLFC said:
And you?

You have 50 points after 24 games, that was 52 points at the same stage last season. You're having a season which is pretty much exactly what's expected and par for the course.
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We went on a torrid pace in the second half of the season that was very inconsistent with the first half. And we are still down from that point. We finished the season with an average of 2.34 pts while we are now at 2.08. Even if we win every game from now on, we will still be down to 86 points instead of 89. And obviously Man City are not even in the picture.

Both are down. If we were on a similar pace as last year, we would be neck and neck.

No question Pool is having a good season. You are significantly up from the previous year. Comparable to City and our form last year.. .but the competition level has decreased this year. Not sure that is really debatable.
 
Don't think there is much question that we have been weaker than last year. Pool look to be on pace for 90+. Usually that is title winning form. That's almost a ten point increase...so kudos to them for the improvement. We have been shafted by the referees this season who seem intent on setting new grounds, and also injuries have piled up....but our overall play I would also say the team has been weaker than last year. There are a few standout performances but it has been much more cagey stuff in general. We have had to rely on our defense too much for my liking.
 
Changeisgood said:
Even if we win every game from now on, we will still be down to 86 points instead of 89. And obviously Man City are not even in the picture.
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Not sure of your maths there... if we win every game we'll end on 92.
 
Changeisgood said:
No question Pool is having a good season. You are significantly up from the previous year. Comparable to City and our form last year.. .but the competition level has decreased this year. Not sure that is really debatable.
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The competition levels are probably as high as they’ve been. We have an emerging middle class - Nottingham Forest, Bournemouth, Fulham and Brighton plus sides like Brentford who can sting. Plus Newcastle and Chelsea are stronger this season. City have fallen off but aside from that I think this league is extremely competitive.
 
SuperiorXI said:
You hear this every season with Arsenal
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If we don't get what we need in attack in the summer, we'll fall short next season as well.

I've no idea how we're even going to get on the rest of this season with only Havertz as a centre forward, seems we just want to run him into the ground. It's quite a ridiculous situation we find ourselves in here.
 
GoonerBear said:
If we don't get what we need in attack in the summer, we'll fall short next season as well.

I've no idea how we're even going to get on the rest of this season with only Havertz as a centre forward, seems we just want to run him into the ground. It's quite a ridiculous situation we find ourselves in here.
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Yep, even if you’re Havertz number one fan, we desperately need to at least rotate him.

Never mind wanting an improvement on him, we’re actually completely screwed if he gets injured at this point.
 
Unless they've got a magic striker waiting at Hale End (which doesn't seem to be the case), not getting one in is a mystifying decision. Can kiss the league + CL goodbye now with even one knock to the forward line.
 
Egalitard said:
Not sure of your maths there... if we win every game we'll end on 92.
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Oh yea..for some reason the idea that there were 12 games left stuck in my mind. Don't think we are at risk of getting 92, or even 89 though. Probably 83 is a little more realistic...85 would be a good achievement at this point.

There are three games for me that hurt us this year...the Brighton, Villa and Pool ones especially. Games we were really on top but either the ref (Brighton) or we did ourselves in(Pool and Villa). Although injuries were an issue in the Pool game too.
 
Changeisgood said:
Oh yea..for some reason the idea that there were 12 games left stuck in my mind. Don't think we are at risk of getting 92, or even 89 though. Probably 83 is a little more realistic...85 would be a good achievement at this point.

There are three games for me that hurt us this year...the Brighton, Villa and Pool ones especially. Games we were really on top but either the ref (Brighton) or we did ourselves in(Pool and Villa). Although injuries were an issue in the Pool game too.
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Small margins mate, often decides games and consequently can go a major way to deciding titles. This seems like 1 of those seasons where we've been at the wrong end of these margins, especially when you begin to list them.
  • Merino fracturing his shoulder in his first training session with the club
  • Calafiori getting several injuries
  • Odegaard getting injured on international duty missing 2 months
  • Rice getting sent off for nudging the ball away at home to Brighton when 1-0 up.
  • Trossard being sent off vs City for kicking the ball away less than a second after the whistle blows when 2-1 up
  • Conceding a 98th min equaliser in the same game
  • Saliba being sent off vs Bournemouth after VAR review at 0-0, consequently missing the Liverpool game.
  • Gabriel going off injured vs Liverpool while 2-1 up meaning we had arguably a 'reserve' back 4 of that time finishing the game
  • Ben White knee surgery missing 3 months
  • Martinelli potential winner vs Fulham ruled out for a tight offside call.
  • Saka Hamstring tear
  • Illness in the camp vs Brighton
  • Nwaneri injured straight away when covering for Saka
  • Jesus ACL when he's starting to find form.
  • Lewis-Skelly wrongly sent off vs Wolves

Now, i hope folk don't think this is a woe is me type post. A lot of the decisions you might agree with, the injuries you need to cope better with etc, and that's a fair point, and at some point everyone will get some bad luck going against them. I'm more just trying to point out that sometimes we judge seasons / players / managers etc in black & white, you win or your a failure, and don't look at the nuances, the small margins that can go for you or against you that helps define whether you are seen as success or failure. All it takes is a couple of those going your way and a 6 point gap is a 2 point gap for instance.
 
Changeisgood said:
Oh yea..for some reason the idea that there were 12 games left stuck in my mind. Don't think we are at risk of getting 92, or even 89 though. Probably 83 is a little more realistic...85 would be a good achievement at this point.

There are three games for me that hurt us this year...the Brighton, Villa and Pool ones especially. Games we were really on top but either the ref (Brighton) or we did ourselves in(Pool and Villa). Although injuries were an issue in the Pool game too.
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Blaming injuries in the Liverpool game is nonsense.

Saliba was banned, the only first choice players you had out through injury were Odegaard and (at the time anyway) Calafiori. We had Alisson out and Jota.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Blaming injuries in the Liverpool game is nonsense.

Saliba was banned, the only first choice players you had out through injury were Odegaard and (at the time anyway) Calafiori. We had Alisson out and Jota.
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It's all it's and buts anyway. But I think Timber as well as Gabriel went off in that game.

Only thing I would say is id be more confident of a defence of Timber - Saliba - Gabriel - Calafiori say to try and see out the game rather than what finished the game which was Partey - White - Kiwior - Lewis-Skelly who had only made 1 sub appearance in the league before then.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Blaming injuries in the Liverpool game is nonsense.

Saliba was banned, the only first choice players you had out through injury were Odegaard and (at the time anyway) Calafiori. We had Alisson out and Jota.
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We ended the match without any of our first choice back line on the pitch and both our fullbacks were midfielders, one of which had yet to make even a single start. Hardly nonsense.

I’m not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet, the last few pages have been full of people saying Liverpool clearly deserve to be topping the table.
 
Daydreamer said:
We ended the match without any of our first choice back line on the pitch and both our fullbacks were midfielders, one of which had yet to make even a single start. Hardly nonsense.

I’m not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet, the last few pages have been full of people saying Liverpool clearly deserve to be topping the table.
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Wouldn't say bee in my bonnet. I just think quite a lot of Arsenal fans are acting like they're the only team who ever get injuries.

If anything it's just showed how poor your recruitment has been recently, you don't have much cover in quite a few key positions but have too many defenders and defensive midfielders.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Blaming injuries in the Liverpool game is nonsense.

Saliba was banned, the only first choice players you had out through injury were Odegaard and (at the time anyway) Calafiori. We had Alisson out and Jota.
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We ended the game without any starting defenders and our captain. I would say that is at least hampered by injuries. But the biggest issue in that game was our mentality. We had Pool reeling until half time. I was pretty confident we would go on and win that one reasonably easily based on the game at that point. We then came back out and decided to not push anymore which was silly especially considering we had all those defensive injuries.
 
DennisReynolds said:
Wouldn't say bee in my bonnet. I just think quite a lot of Arsenal fans are acting like they're the only team who ever get injuries.

If anything it's just showed how poor your recruitment has been recently, you don't have much cover in quite a few key positions but have too many defenders and defensive midfielders.
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Well that's interesting, because we spent the whole entire time having to hear that we have been lucky with injuries recently...but now they suddenly do not matter.

We have had some key injuries this year. We also do not have enough options in attack showcased by Havertz being our only recognized upfront option at this point. If he goes down...we are completely cooked.
 
Changeisgood said:
We ended the game without any starting defenders and our captain. I would say that is at least hampered by injuries. But the biggest issue in that game was our mentality. We had Pool reeling until half time. I was pretty confident we would go on and win that one reasonably easily based on the game at that point. We then came back out and decided to not push anymore which was silly especially considering we had all those defensive injuries.
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You were definitely the better team in the first half. Not sure it was just mentality though, Slot tried a few things tactically that helped bring us back into the game.

Changeisgood said:
Well that's interesting, because we spent the whole entire time having to hear that we have been lucky with injuries recently...but now they suddenly do not matter.

We have had some key injuries this year. We also do not have enough options in attack showcased by Havertz being our only recognized upfront option at this point. If he goes down...we are completely cooked.
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I wouldn't say they don't matter, just that it's something every team has to deal with and I don't think it's the worst injury "crisis" a team has overcome in recent years.

I agree on the Havertz cover but that's what I mean about poor recruitment. I don't know why you got essentially swapped Nelson for Sterling on loan and thought you could rely on Jesus to avoid injuries. It probably contributed to Saka's injury when he's played into the ground even through niggles.
 
DennisReynolds said:
You were definitely the better team in the first half. Not sure it was just mentality though, Slot tried a few things tactically that helped bring us back into the game.


I wouldn't say they don't matter, just that it's something every team has to deal with and I don't think it's the worst injury "crisis" a team has overcome in recent years.

I agree on the Havertz cover but that's what I mean about poor recruitment. I don't know why you got essentially swapped Nelson for Sterling on loan and thought you could rely on Jesus to avoid injuries. It probably contributed to Saka's injury when he's played into the ground even through niggles.
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I don't think anyone is arguing your point about the squad, especially in the attacking sense, there's a reason why Arsenal fans were all crying out for forwards the last couple of windows, so we are all in full agreement there.

As for you point about injuries, again I don't think anyone is claiming it's the worst injury crisis in recent years. What I am saying though, is it is hard to have injuries of some of your main players without any impact on performance. Especially when you are competing at the very top of the league where the standards are that high that any dropped points are viewed as a mini disaster.

I mean, we are actually unbeaten in 14 league games despite the setbacks, but still haven't closed the gap to you guys.
 
GoonerBear said:
I don't think anyone is arguing your point about the squad, especially in the attacking sense, there's a reason why Arsenal fans were all crying out for forwards the last couple of windows, so we are all in full agreement there.

As for you point about injuries, again I don't think anyone is claiming it's the worst injury crisis in recent years. What I am saying though, is it is hard to have injuries of some of your main players without any impact on performance. Especially when you are competing at the very top of the league where the standards are that high that any dropped points are viewed as a mini disaster.

I mean, we are actually unbeaten in 14 league games despite the setbacks, but still haven't closed the gap to you guys.
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I don't think there has been that clear choice available with the room under PSR this difficult transfer season. Tons of inquiries but we seemed unable to get anything done. A loan deal seemed the most likely.

I wonder if the transfers this summer were really the ones for us. The mistake was made there I believe. Merino and Cala have had minimal impact even though I believe Cala is a great talent if he can stay healthy.

Other than maybe Zubi coming in to replace potential exits, I just want to see attacking reinforcements come in. We now have enough cover there in my opinion, especially with MLS coming up. Ideally MLS should play in midfield.
 
Changeisgood said:
I don't think there has been that clear choice available with the room under PSR this difficult transfer season. Tons of inquiries but we seemed unable to get anything done. A loan deal seemed the most likely.

I wonder if the transfers this summer were really the ones for us. The mistake was made there I believe. Merino and Cala have had minimal impact even though I believe Cala is a great talent if he can stay healthy.

Other than maybe Zubi coming in to replace potential exits, I just want to see attacking reinforcements come in. We now have enough cover there in my opinion, especially with MLS coming up. Ideally MLS should play in midfield.
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More disappointed with not getting anyone decent last summer than this summer. I didn't think any of our main targets were available this window, I was just hoping for a temporary solution almost to take the burden from Havertz at the end of games etc. I'm certainly not his biggest fan, but after seeing him move on loan, i thought someone like Morata would have been ideal and disappointed that we sounded him out but we're too slow to act on it and he wouldn't block a summer transfer.

Honestly, squad wise apart from the couple of attacking additions we need, if we can get Zubimendi in to replace Jorginho / Partey I think we are in a good place with a very decent age profile. I think City are in the middle of a major churn and Liverpool have a few of their main guys aging and / or out of contract.
 
GoonerBear said:
More disappointed with not getting anyone decent last summer than this summer. I didn't think any of our main targets were available this window, I was just hoping for a temporary solution almost to take the burden from Havertz at the end of games etc. I'm certainly not his biggest fan, but after seeing him move on loan, i thought someone like Morata would have been ideal and disappointed that we sounded him out but we're too slow to act on it and he wouldn't block a summer transfer.

Honestly, squad wise apart from the couple of attacking additions we need, if we can get Zubimendi in to replace Jorginho / Partey I think we are in a good place with a very decent age profile. I think City are in the middle of a major churn and Liverpool have a few of their main guys aging and / or out of contract.
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So next year is your year?
 
FriedClams said:
So next year is your year?
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Yeah, Netflix FC etc.

I never make any bold predictions. All I want is for us to put ourselves in a position where we are at least competing at the top of the table, then you hope the small margins go your way, luck with injuries, with ref decisions etc.

We know our obvious weaknesses, everyone knows our obvious weaknesses. We are trying to win a league with a current attack of Martinelli, Havertz and Trossard. It's an area where everyone can see can be improved, let's see if we do that.
 
I’ll be shocked if he’s still there next season. Good result against City, but then there’s never been a better time for anyone to face City given the mess they’re in.
 
Joel Miller said:
I’ll be shocked if he’s still there next season. Good result against City, but then there’s never been a better time for anyone to face City given the mess they’re in.
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Prepare to be shocked Joel.
 
He's won one 1 cup the whole time he's been there.

The win against City was great, but they were wobbling a bit before that and failed to capitalise on Liverpool's little wobble.

On the 1 hand, he's taken Arsenal as far as he can take them, on the other, can anyone else take them any further?
 
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