Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Donaldo said:
The frustrating bit was that we looked to have solved this in the early part of 2024 (save the ghastly Villa game). It's one step forward 2 steps back at the moment with us.
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Would you say one of the things also is that a lot of your signings, or players, are 99 players. 99 players in the sense that they're that tiny bit off from being proper world class.

I cant think of a single world class old school striker you've had since RVP, and he was an injury case for you. I dont know if you'd call players like Lacazette etc world class strikers?
 
Mogget said:
Opposition fans and the media are going to mock and criticise us no matter what, might as well have a little fun with it

Football would be incredibly boring if you're only allowed to mock your rivals if you win a trophy
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I think it actually shows how bad the mentality of the players is.

City aren't their title rivals this year. Acting like that when they're sat in 5th, 9 points behind, while the actual league leaders sit 6 points clear with a game in hand is just bizarre.

It shows that their focus isn't actually on winning the league, but petty oneupmanship against the team that's bettered them in the previous two seasons. It's a bit like Gerrard's camera kissing against us.
 
Donaldo said:
The frustrating bit was that we looked to have solved this in the early part of 2024 (save the ghastly Villa game). It's one step forward 2 steps back at the moment with us.
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The frustrating thing is our form against the 'big 6' is generally great, but Newcastle and Howe just seem to have our number.

We play right into their hands. We'd probably be better off just playing them at their own game, dropping the team 10 yards deeper and denying them the space in behind. Unfortunately teams like Bournemouth play better transition football than us, that's why they are able to do to Newcastle what we can't.
 
WhatIsLove said:
Would you say one of the things also is that a lot of your signings, or players, are 99 players. 99 players in the sense that they're that tiny bit off from being proper world class.

I cant think of a single world class old school striker you've had since RVP, and he was an injury case for you. I dont know if you'd call players like Lacazette etc world class strikers?
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Lacazette no. Auba would be the closest probably managing a couple of 20+ goal seasons before falling off a cliff post new contract.

We all watched the Bayern game last season, and the general consensus was that we lacked that little bit of X-Factor at the top end of the pitch. The PR pieces at the time were acknowledging this, that the club would look to address that in the summer.

Instead all we could muster was Raheem Sterling on loan on deadline day. So if you don't improve personnel, expect to have similar issues. Compounded when both of your best attacking players end up facing months out between them.
 
WhatIsLove said:
Would you say one of the things also is that a lot of your signings, or players, are 99 players. 99 players in the sense that they're that tiny bit off from being proper world class.

I cant think of a single world class old school striker you've had since RVP, and he was an injury case for you. I dont know if you'd call players like Lacazette etc world class strikers?
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RVP was 'world class' for precisely one season, otherwise just a constant sicknote.

Auba was as close as it gets to an Isak level goal scorer, maybe better. We should've just gone for Isak back when Arsenal twitter was tracking his flights by the second.
 
GoonerBear said:
The frustrating thing is our form against the 'big 6' is generally great, but Newcastle and Howe just seem to have our number.

We play right into their hands. We'd probably be better off just playing them at their own game, dropping the team 10 yards deeper and denying them the space in behind. Unfortunately teams like Bournemouth play better transition football than us, that's why they are able to do to Newcastle what we can't.
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Again, he built that side of us from scratch with Saka, ESR, Auba, Ode, Xhaka in 2021, and then mystifyingly refused to employ that in games where we need to in the recent past.
 
Donaldo said:
RVP was 'world class' for precisely one season, otherwise just a constant sicknote.

Auba was as close as it gets to an Isak level goal scorer, maybe better. We should've just gone for Isak back when Arsenal twitter was tracking his flights by the second.
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Remember when they were sure he was signing because an I5AAK reg Rolls Royce was spotted driving around London near The Emirates a couple of years back:lol:

Donaldo said:
Again, he built that side of us from scratch with Saka, ESR, Auba, Ode, Xhaka in 2021, and then mystifyingly refused to employ that in games where we need to in the recent past.
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The first half of the 22/23 season was probably the most fluid I seen us attacking wise under Arteta, that had Xhaka having his best season moved to that advanced left 8, and Jesus on a mission post City and pre knee injury.
 
GoonerBear said:
Remember when they were sure he was signing because an I5AAK reg Rolls Royce was spotted driving around London near The Emirates a couple of years back:lol:



The first half of the 22/23 season was probably the most fluid I seen us attacking wise under Arteta, that had Xhaka having his best season moved to that advanced left 8, and Jesus on a mission post City and pre knee injury.
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I think that scared him, tbh :lol:

For all his teachings under Pep, he remains a stoic Moyes man at heart.
 
Donaldo said:
RVP was 'world class' for precisely one season, otherwise just a constant sicknote.

Auba was as close as it gets to an Isak level goal scorer, maybe better. We should've just gone for Isak back when Arsenal twitter was tracking his flights by the second.
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I largely agree, except it was two seasons. His last at Arsenal and his first at United. Looking back, we should have kept him and let him leave on a free. We effectively traded £25m for a PL title, which is an awful deal when you put it that way.
 
Daydreamer said:
I largely agree, except it was two seasons. His last at Arsenal and his first at United. Looking back, we should have kept him and let him leave on a free. We effectively traded £25m for a PL title, which is an awful deal when you put it that way.
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We just would have won it some other way, don't feel too bad.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
We just would have won it some other way, don't feel too bad.
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I watched y'all that season... you really wouldn't. Ferdinand and Vidic were imperious at the back, but you were actually relatively average going forward. RVP often won you games through a piece of individual brilliance.

That's not a diss, btw. SAF later commented that Wenger told him that RVP "will win you guys the league". Which makes me question both his and our board's ambition at the time. Which RVP was also questioning as his justification for leaving, so time seems to have proved him right.

SAF identified a way of massively strengthening his team while completely blunting a direct rival. Hats off to him.
 
Daydreamer said:
I largely agree, except it was two seasons. His last at Arsenal and his first at United. Looking back, we should have kept him and let him leave on a free. We effectively traded £25m for a PL title, which is an awful deal when you put it that way.
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Van Persie was definitely not the difference between you winning the league and finishing fourth that season. So you didn't really trade that money for a PL title.
 
erikcred said:
Van Persie was definitely not the difference between you winning the league and finishing fourth that season. So you didn't really trade that money for a PL title.
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I think if you put that 12/13 van Persie in any top 4 side from that season they would have won the league, not just Arsenal. We just happened to be the club that sold him.

But it's all hypothetical, which is precisely my point. SAF actually went out and bought him to ensure success, whereas Arsenal sold him for an amount of money that is fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
 
Daydreamer said:
I think if you put that 12/13 van Persie in any top 4 side from that season they would have won the league, not just Arsenal. We just happened to be the club that sold him.

But it's all hypothetical, which is precisely my point. SAF actually went out and bought him to ensure success, whereas Arsenal sold him for an amount of money that is fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
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I mean you hadn't really challenged for the title for almost a decade by then and in the four or five years leading up to 12/13, you were routinely finishing more than 10 points behind the leaders.

It's presumptuous to think that you'd have waltzed right past us and City that season just because you held on to a player who didn't even want to stay at Arsenal.

I mean the little boy in him wasn't screaming for any of the other top four, so the likelihood of him putting on the same performances with them is not the same as it was with us.
 
erikcred said:
I mean you hadn't really challenged for the title for almost a decade by then and in the four or five years leading up to 12/13, you were routinely finishing more than 10 points behind the leaders.

It's presumptuous to think that you'd have waltzed right past us and City that season just because you held on to a player who didn't even want to stay at Arsenal.

I mean the little boy in him wasn't screaming for any of the other top four, so the likelihood of him putting on the same performances with them is not the same as it was with us.
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I know exactly what position Arsenal were in - I had to live through it. This wasn't really a comment about about Arsenal or United (other than to praise United's ambition, so I'm a little surprised at the push back). It was mainly about the fact that van Persie had two world class seasons in his career.

And I'm not suggesting that we'd waltz past any one. But, as a thought experiment, if out of the 38 games van Persie (all other things being equal) was responsible for turning three potential losses into wins (United lost 5 games that season so that's not wild) and he could hypothetically have done the same for Arsenal - that's an 18 point swing. Hence why directly weakening a rival is so effective.

The margins are incredibly fine at the top. Replace Havertz with Isak and the league table looks very different this season. And I'm a fan of Havertz.

van Persie clearly wanted to play for SAF - who wouldn't? But let's be honest, the little boy inside him would have also screamed to play for City or Chelsea had they bid for him. We didn't match his ambition and he left.
 
Credit to Newcastle. They wanted it a lot more.

We didn't get our shiny new striker, so I have diminishing confidence that we will win anything this year. Seeing some rumblings about the Kroenkes not supporting Arteta but I think there wasn't much that could be done at this time. If they don't get someone in the summer though...I don't know where we are heading.
 
Daydreamer said:
I largely agree, except it was two seasons. His last at Arsenal and his first at United. Looking back, we should have kept him and let him leave on a free. We effectively traded £25m for a PL title, which is an awful deal when you put it that way.
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I meant with us.
 
Donaldo said:
I meant with us.
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Ah, fair enough. Yep you’re right, he was absolutely class in his first season with you and then seemed to sulk at Moyes’ appointment and returned to his previous terrible record of staying fit.
 
Daydreamer said:
Ah, fair enough. Yep you’re right, he was absolutely class in his first season with you and then seemed to sulk at Moyes’ appointment and returned to his previous terrible record of staying fit.
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Us, being your club as well, Daydreamer :rolleyes:
 
Tarrou said:
I want him to stay forever but never win a trophy
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Daydreamer said:
I largely agree, except it was two seasons. His last at Arsenal and his first at United. Looking back, we should have kept him and let him leave on a free. We effectively traded £25m for a PL title, which is an awful deal when you put it that way.
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I don’t understand this logic, it’s not like Arsenal could win the league that season had you kept him, so it’s not 25m vs PL title, it’s 25m vs nothing.
 
Imagine relying on lego pep to stop liverpool winning the league! serves us right.

Hopefully next season we can go back to cheering on City to stop liverpool. Is the 'eritage of united now.
 
Martinelli out for over a month. They're looking a bit light up top.
 
Klopper76 said:
Martinelli out for over a month. They're looking a bit light up top.
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More than a bit. The Athletic reported that Villa actually offered Watkins to Arsenal for £60m (before the Duran deal had accelerated) and Arsenal responded... by bidding £40m. Then the Saudi bid came in for Duran and we never bid again because the deal was dead. If that's true (and it is very much on brand for Arsenal) than we've seriously let the team and Arteta down.

Arteta couldn't have been much clearer in his press conferences...
And Arteta also rejected the suggestion that he does not share the view of the fans that his team needs to sign a forward.

He said: “I don’t share what? Have I ever said no to a striker?

“My opinion is clear, we lost two very important players in Bukayo Saka and Gabriel Jesus so we lack goals, we lack people, we lack options in the front line, it’s clear.​
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It's a joke.
 
Daydreamer said:
More than a bit. The Athletic reported that Villa actually offered Watkins to Arsenal for £60m (before the Duran deal had accelerated) and Arsenal responded... by bidding £40m. Then the Saudi bid came in for Duran and we never bid again because the deal was dead. If that's true (and it is very much on brand for Arsenal) than we've seriously let the team and Arteta down.

Arteta couldn't have been much clearer in his press conferences...

It's a joke.
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Good. 60m for Watkins is a waste of money of epic proportions.
 
awop said:
Good. 60m for Watkins is a waste of money of epic proportions.
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That’s clearly what the Board thought and I agree that’s overpriced. However, we only have three fit first team forwards - one of which is Sterling who is a shadow of himself.

We’re at the point where we’re relying on a literal child who cannot legally get changed in the dressing room to rescue our dire situation on the right flank. And it’s not even his preferred position.
 
Daydreamer said:
That’s clearly what the Board thought and I agree that’s overpriced. However, we only have three fit first team forwards - one of which is Sterling who is a shadow of himself.

We’re at the point where we’re relying on a literal child who cannot legally get changed in the dressing room to rescue our dire situation on the right flank. And it’s not even his preferred position.
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Yes the situation is bad and we should have brought someone on loan or a cheap solution but Watkins was not the solution.
It is a good thing whoever did, put a stop to that. At 30/40m it would have been a premium version of the Trossard transfer. Anything more and you're spending too much and maybe self sabotaging your actual summer plans.
 
Proper throwback to midget winger/Arshavin up front days, this. At least we had false hope with a Jay Emmanuel Thomas then. Now the U-21s are all also midget wingers.
 
Daydreamer said:
More than a bit. The Athletic reported that Villa actually offered Watkins to Arsenal for £60m (before the Duran deal had accelerated) and Arsenal responded... by bidding £40m. Then the Saudi bid came in for Duran and we never bid again because the deal was dead. If that's true (and it is very much on brand for Arsenal) than we've seriously let the team and Arteta down.

Arteta couldn't have been much clearer in his press conferences...

It's a joke.
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His signings also haven’t helped. 6 years at Arsenal and he’s only added Jesus, Haverz and Trossard if I’m not mistaken, all of whom are just fine. That’s not good enough if you want to win in the league. They cost a decent amount (especially Havertz) and more importantly, you’ve spent boatloads on other areas.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
His signings also haven’t helped. 6 years at Arsenal and he’s only added Jesus, Haverz and Trossard if I’m not mistaken, all of whom are just fine. That’s not good enough if you want to win in the league. They cost a decent amount (especially Havertz) and more importantly, you’ve spent boatloads on other areas.
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The best strikers he ever played with at his own peak were Dunc Ferguson and Olly Giroud. No wonder he's disillusioned by the trade.
 
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If Arteta is sacked and it's looking likely, and things don't work out with Amorim would you take him at United?
 
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