Mate you've been the worm on top of the soil for the last decade.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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That is one of the fallacies of the continuous argument. On one side it's ....City titles do not count, they are a bunch of cheats. (I disagree that they don't matter, they obviously do). But then divided by another thread we see...Arteta cannot win the league, he is not good enough! Well, you said the winners are cheats.... By virtue of that you should be cutting the 2nd place finisher who lost out by one game laat season some slack?
It's kinda weird. But if Arteta offered to manage them tomorrow, I imagine they would jump at that opportunity.
Nibbling on the Arsenal's dead carcass no doubt.
You see here you took 2004 as reference.
If FA cups had really mattered than you would have taken 2021 as a reference frame. Because between 2015 and 2021 we won 4 FA cups.
But everyone takes 2004 as reference frame as that was the last time we won EPL.
So honestly yeah FA cups and Carling cups don’t matter as they are not changing anything. Even if we win one in a year or two same questions will come again and still the reference will be to 2004.
So for most Arsenal fans its EPL/CL or bust.
I am sure you're winding Arsenal fans here a bit, you're a quality poster normally. But even you know this isn't serious, United have broken all their horrible records the last few years including one yesterday ie worst start for them ever. If Ipswich and Wolves win today you're 7 pts from relegation spot today, from number 19. And considering how difficult your next 4 games run is you could actually be around the relegation spot in a month, after a half a season. This isn't just me saying it, your post match thread has countless posts expressing the same fears.
You're one of the biggest clubs in the world, merchandise wise and fanbase wise etc. But deep down you know that knowledge won't sustain your happiness with the club, just like it didn't the Liverpool fans during their great drought. Only trophies do and you also know right now you're as far from the CL and PL as you've been during your worst times in your history. Unlike other opposition fans, I watch United games every week for years now as my best mate is a United fan. We all have our tribal banter but I am sure there's not much I've said that you'll actually disagree with me.
The Spanish David Brent. Lets just close the thread on that. Thats him end of
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Thanks for the compliment.
Yeah, I was just having a bit of fun after responding to an initial post that was critical of United by an Arsenal fan. Though, as for the 'food chain' stuff, I do believe that we still retain a level of attractiveness when it comes to the transfer market.
There's a long road back for us. What I would say, is that I'm really happy with our choice of Head Coach and I'm not overly concerned about a bit of short term pain under his tenure. I actually expect us to challenge for the top 4 next season as I don't believe that sides such as Aston Villa and Spurs are anything special at all. Chelsea perhaps the one real concern. Big decisions need to be made on certain players and you have to have keep the faith in the new structure at management/board level (though even that is being tested today after the Ashworth news).
Just to bring it back on topic, Arteta has done a really good job up to now. A trophy with this group of players would obviously strengthen his case, though I know it isn't the be-all and end-all, having watched us lift recent domestic cups, only to return to our dormant state. I actually want Arsenal to win the title and if it wasn't for some silly red cards and an injury or two, you'd be right on Liverpool's shoulder. I genuinely believe you are a better side than them when everyone is fit, though perhaps they have a stronger squad.
Just in case this initial post was mine, I'll say I was just responding to an initial post that was critical of Arsenal by a United fan. I didn't start it, I swear : )
My point was actually that the United and Arsenal fanbases are largely in the same boat. We're both in a hangover after the tenures of our most successful Managers and are both trying to navigate an environment of nation-state and oligarch/hedge fund backed entities with largely self-sustaining models.
I think if Amorim is given time he'll turn things around. But it might require more time than United fans are willing to give him. Giving ETH the Summer transfer window was an awful decision. It wasted money in terms of increased compensation and transfer/wage budget, but it also wasted precious time and put the rebuild back by a year. It was a hard enough job already, without tying one of Amorim's hands behind his back.
Hopefully he gets the support Arteta has been given.
Fair enough mate. It's a bit like how it always hits differently when someone from the outside slags off a member of your family or a mate even though I'll happily curse them day in day out
Agreed on the comparison between the two clubs. I'm more than happy to give Amorim time. In my view, he's a quality coach and a very good communicator. The lack of trust on my part, is aimed at those above him, as you have alluded to. Patience, as well as competency is needed from above.
I’m a huge fan of Arteta, but these yet more dropped points against Fulham are on him. We knew they were going to play 5-4-1, sit deep and try to catch us in the break and our starting lineup played right into their hands.
We need to stop with Timber at LB, Partey at RB and Rice at LCM ahead of Jorginho with Trossard ahead of him on the flank. All of those players want the ball to feet (especially playing in those roles) and become really easy to crowd out by playing 10 men behind the ball.
Oh, and Martinelli needs to stay switched on. He’s too old to for his decision making to be so undeveloped at times.
We need to stop with Timber at LB, Partey at RB and Rice at LCM ahead of Jorginho with Trossard ahead of him on the flank. All of those players want the ball to feet (especially playing in those roles) and become really easy to crowd out by playing 10 men behind the ball.
Oh, and Martinelli needs to stay switched on. He’s too old to for his decision making to be so undeveloped at times.
He needs to be under way more pressure than he is. Way more.
He is just the Spanish Pochettino.. Great at building an exciting young team and playing good football in the process but no trophies delivered. The more time passes and no trophies are won, the more football becomes dire and ugly..
Him and Saka were neck and neck a few years ago. Chasms between them now.
Their front line is not as explosive or imaginative as Liverpool's. Tbh that's really the difference in the two sides.
A point at Fulham isn't a terrible result but their away from is costing them.
A point at Fulham isn't a terrible result but their away from is costing them.
Artetadyce would be mid-table if refs actually punished their pushing and shoving in the box. Timber gets away with so much, constantly blocking off players to leave someone free on the back post.
Martinelli has been living off the memories of 22-23 for as long as Rashford has.
Would be surprised if they won a trophy.
I will again ask this to all arsenal fans, how do they enjoy this football. His 5th full season and still overall playing style is quite mediocre. If it fetches the title or CL then fine but if not what is the point.
He's headed for a 73 point season right now. Running out of steam?
This is so true. They even play similarly.
Back then he was playing with Zinchenko behind him, Xhaka to his side and his fellow Brazilian Jesus drifting out and interchanging with him. Today he had a right-footed Timber behind him, a right-footed Rice beside him and a left-footed Havertz who prefers to drift out to right hand side to link up with Saka and Odegaard.
As much as he annoys me, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he plays so much better when Califiori and Merino are in the side. Arteta needs to be brave enough to play Lewis-Shelley and Merino instead of the safe option of shifting Timber across, Partey back and bringing in Jorginho. If we don’t trust the likes of Lewis-Skelley and Nwaneri enough to start games, we shouldn’t have loaned out the likes of Tavares and Vieira to make room for them in the squad.
He could just the one of those managers whose teams don’t get over the line. Maybe his successor will be the one to do it.
Lego Pulis.
Why continually ask if you don’t listen to the answer?
Our style of football is being dictated by our opponents at the moment. Sporting (who we beat 5:1 playing some lovely stuff, incidentally), United and Fulham all played 5 at the back and hoped to catch us on the break. We’re having issues breaking that down.
Obviously I, along with most Arsenal fans, would love us to go out and buy Leao and Isak in the January transfer window and blow teams away.
Seeing as that’s not going to happen, I would like to see Arteta take more risks in his team selection and focus more on the profile of player rather than the amount of experience they have.
But these points have been made repeatedly throughout this thread by myself and others, as you well know.
We are also just 3 points worse off than the equivalent fixtures last season.
All depends on how you look at things.
Well that’s not true, first half we had 60% of the ball at one point, hardly counter attacking football. Second half you took control of the game.
So basically one good performance. You are just proving many people's points that your football come 5th full season is still not that good. Yes gets you some results but is it good enough to win a title or CL, I am not sure.
I think more than Leao you need a striker.
This is true. We were very comfortable. Boringly so.
But your plan to score was to pick us off on the break. Your possession had no real attacking intent, hence the 40 minutes it took to have a shot and the 60 minutes it took to have an effort on target.
I’m not saying this to denigrate your style of play (there’s enough fans pretending to care about how good their rival’s football is in this thread) but because it’s the only way you can have an honest tactical discussion.
I’d love us to play like we did in 22/23, but we did so exploiting spaces that are simply not there in the pitch at the moment. This is partly because the league as a whole has become generally better coached in terms of defensive organisation (these things tend to go in cycles). And it’s also a result of becoming a better team, opponents now view a draw as a decent result against us. All good sides go through the same thing and we’re going to have to improve to counteract it.
That’s why it’s funny to read that we’re five years in and played prettier stuff before. That’s both true and to be expected.
He's bobbins.
Yep, we’re second in the league and in the automatic qualifying spots in the Champions League of the back of a single decent performance.
If that were true I’d actually be more impressed by our efficiency.
How we’re playing now won’t win us a title or the CL, I agree. I’m not sure anyone is stating any differently.
I also agree that we need Leao more than a striker. In fact, I don’t think my agreement with you on that point could be much stronger.
I just think that the analysis of our style of play is both overblown and disingenuous. Fulham had 0.1xG in the game. They came for a point, stuck to the game plan and got it. Hats off to them.
Had Partey nodded in a completely free header from four yards out, or had Martinelli not have lazily been caught offside, we would have cut Liverpool’s lead down to four points. As it is, we’re making life very difficult for ourselves.
Imagine dropping off like this when City are melting down. Their fans must be gutted.
Only really Saka in the whole starting lineup that can receive the ball in space and take on a man.
He needs to start playing at least one full back who can join attacks effectively.
Way too much physicality right now and not enough skill and guile, and it costs them, because they are hard to beat, but are also way too predictable.
He needs to start playing at least one full back who can join attacks effectively.
Way too much physicality right now and not enough skill and guile, and it costs them, because they are hard to beat, but are also way too predictable.
That just short of 8pts over a season though... so hardly a better way of looking at things, it just another way of showing a backwards trajectory.
Their fans are deluded. They think he's some sort of oracle.
I don’t think it’s the balance of physicality and skill, it’s just playing players in their natural positions. Timber has been brilliant with Saka on the right, but we broke that partnership today because Arteta overvalues experience and seniority in his selection.
He's one of Pep's horcruxes so it makes a lot of sense.
Arsenal are only able to unlock games thanks to set pieces these days
Decent analysis. But hard to think positive when you've seen the impregnable City meltdown yet let another team storm in front of you.
Need a long winning run asap
I think you really missing having even one full back who can join attacks and overload fullbacks effectively.
Trossard is great, but he also takes away yet another position in the team where someone more dynamic could be cutting in and causing a defender problems.
It’s all too static and done in front of teams sitting back.
Then, you don’t even have that poacher who will seize on a half chance.
Need more pace and dynamism out wide and to stop overloading the team with CBs and DMs.
I could not agree more. This was especially bad in the first half.
It was also entirely predictable, I think our entire fan base could have seen it coming.