Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Changeisgood]

I think it’s difficult to copy for the same reason that George Graham’s back line was difficult to copy. Its combination of personnel and drilling. Saka and Rice’s delivery is top notch and you can see that Arteta and Jover have got the players bought into the hard work required on the training pitch.

That’s long term planning combined with skillful man management with a high focus on marginal gains. Managers would have to be convinced that it’s worthwhile it for their team. If their players don’t have both the skill and the desire to make it work, the benefit may not be worth the cost.

It wont be easy, but they will have their own programs for it. Especially the bigger teams that have better players that can potentially deliver like Saka and Rice. It's certainly not a given that it will work, but other than the fact they could be training on something else, it's worth the time.

It's interesting that we have our top scorer taking corners and the other one is probably the biggest guy on the team in terms of mass/height. Definitely is a skill. For me Rice is marginally better at it. Saka has a good whip on the ball but it is more scattered.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Interesting to see how they’ve evolved in recent years. Thought they were brilliant to watch in the year before Xhaka left. Now it’s a bit like watching an aggressive version of Mourinhos Chelsea. You can see how vital Odegaard is because when he’s out it’s basically Saka and corners as their best hope for creating things.

I do think a lot of their unlikeableness comes from Arteta. His antics have gotten worse and worse over the years. Their backline is brilliant when fit. I mean yeah that’s about it

Less aggressive id say (and less good obviously)

 

[sglowrider]

Impressive that it's only just starting.

Basically even good hair has its limits

 

[Daydreamer]

You all seem to be taking this as some form of excuse for Utd instead of acknowledging the actual points. Utd deserved to lose last night, we were not the better team and did lose. Arsenal, however, were at home, 4 seasons into a project where they've spent a mountain of money, and still played like it was a cagey cup tie in 1995 against a crap Utd team with a brand new manager and a shit load of rotation, including a second string defence. Arsenal were playing nicer football earlier in the project than they are now.

We're viewing it as funny because we think it's funny. The same way United fans are free to laugh at Arsenal fans for allegedly "playing like Stoke", surely Arsenal fans are free to laugh at United fans suddenly becoming extremely precious about the precise manner in which Arsenal decisively beat them.

As has been pointed out by your own fans, the greatest achievement in United history was the result of two corners. SAF once selected 7 defenders against Arsenal, won the game and was correctly hailed for doing so.

It was a cagey game because Amorim was scared of getting battered. He shut up shop and we found it tricky to break you down. As he should have done. We scored off a couple of the 13 corners we won and then Arteta was content to see the match out with a clean sheet. As he should done.

There was nothing to write home about with this game, hence me not posting at all about it last night. Which makes it all the more funny when you read through this and the post-match thread. The team that offered next to no attacking threat was United, but you would never have guessed that if you missed the game and read through the reactions here.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Less aggressive id say (and less good obviously)

My aggressive I meant how they approached attacking and defending.

 

[RedC]

We're viewing it as funny because we think it's funny. The same way United fans are free to laugh at Arsenal fans for allegedly "playing like Stoke", surely Arsenal fans are free to laugh at United fans suddenly becoming extremely precious about the precise manner in which Arsenal decisively beat them.

As has been pointed out by your own fans, the greatest achievement in United history was the result of two corners. SAF once selected 7 defenders against Arsenal, won the game and was correctly hailed for doing so.

It was a cagey game because Amorim was scared of getting battered. He shut up shop and we found it tricky to break you down. As he should have done. We scored off a couple of the 13 corners we won and then Arteta was content to see the match out with a clean sheet. As he should done.

There was nothing to write home about with this game, hence me not posting at all about it last night. Which makes it all the more funny when you read through this and the post-match thread. The team that offered next to no attacking threat was United, but you would never have guessed that if you missed the game and read through the reactions here.

I've watched Arsenal enough this season to see the same thing most times, again you've talked about Utd when I'm talking about general play. You park the bus the second a team gets into your half and don't exactly play free flowing attacking football a lot of the time. I think you were more enjoyable to watch a few years ago, and so wanted to see what Arsenal fan opinions were on the evolution of the team, given results are broadly the same the last in few years at a macro level. Do you think the football is the same or more defensive?

 

[The_Midfielder]

They are heading to another trophyless season with top 4 ..
And having Gabriel as their top scorer

 

[Teja]

Their whole project so analytics driven and as an engineer I really have a morbid fascination with it. They're min-maxing the crap out of various aspects of football (most notably set pieces) and it's an interesting vision for what type of squad building and tactical meta wins trophies.

At this point they're like a hybrid of Simeone / Jose / Thomas Frank's Brentford. At the very least it's different enough from Pep that I still want them to succceed.

 

[DJ_21]

He always seems so arrogant for a manager and team that hasn’t won anything.

 

[Daydreamer]

I've watched Arsenal enough this season to see the same thing most times, again you've talked about Utd when I'm talking about general play. You park the bus the second a team gets into your half and don't exactly play free flowing attacking football a lot of the time. I think you were more enjoyable to watch a few years ago, and so wanted to see what Arsenal fan opinions were on the evolution of the team, given results are broadly the same the last in few years at a macro level. Do you think the football is the same or more defensive?

I think we don't play attacking free flowing football against the top sides. We also have the best record against the top sides over the last two season. If the league consisted solely of City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and United - we'd be aiming for our third consecutive title : ) I don't think that's a coincidence. When we play the top sides we're mostly concerned with results. That applies to the Manager, the players and the fanbase. That used to be the case for United too, which is why I find the switch up amusing.

We still play pretty nice stuff against smaller sides (when we have 11 men). It's gotten trickier because now teams fear us, they sit a lot deeper. The same thing happen with City. They used to play football I loved watching, but their moves became more choreographed as they became more successful because teams shut up shop.

One thing I do criticise Arteta for is not bringing in Nwaneri. You could definitely say we are overly reliant on Odegaard, but more than his abilities as a player and qualities as a Captain (which is huge for us) I think our style of play requires someone of his profile. Trossard is a good player, but he doesn't provide that. We should have trusted Nwaneri as he is a like for like change in terms of style. I think Arteta was overly cautious and it cost us a lot of points while Odegaard was out.

But overall, do I think we're a overly defensive team? No, I don't. We're just good at defending. The same way I don't think we're overly reliant at set pieces. We're just good at set pieces. Any attempt to point to fairly obvious metrics that suggest we're not the second coming of Stoke have been shouted down, so I won't point to any. But I think it's fairly obvious that we not bad at attacking seeing as, you know, we attack very well.

 

[Posh Red]

Just look through the Post Arsenal thread. Or this thread. The overreactions are pretty funny.

To be honest, all I’ve been hearing today is how embarrassing it was that United turned up and ‘parked the bus’. I haven’t read on here much today.

 

[Posh Red]

Just look through the Post Arsenal thread. Or this thread. The overreactions are pretty funny.

So are you quite satisfied with this more workman like Arsenal? I’ve still not seen many clear answers about it.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

He always seems so arrogant for a manager and team that hasn’t won anything.

I’ve been thinking today that if you bound his arms to his sides for the duration of the game, or simply remove them altogether, chances are he’d be about 70% less annoying.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I think we don't play attacking free flowing football against the top sides. We also have the best record against the top sides over the last two season. If the league consisted solely of City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and United - we'd be aiming for our third consecutive title : ) I don't think that's a coincidence. When we play the top sides we're mostly concerned with results. That applies to the Manager, the players and the fanbase. That used to be the case for United too, which is why I find the switch up amusing.

We still play pretty nice stuff against smaller sides (when we have 11 men). It's gotten trickier because now teams fear us, they sit a lot deeper. The same thing happen with City. They used to play football I loved watching, but their moves became more choreographed as they became more successful because teams shut up shop.

One thing I do criticise Arteta for is not bringing in Nwaneri. You could definitely say we are overly reliant on Odegaard, but more than his abilities as a player and qualities as a Captain (which is huge for us) I think our style of play requires someone of his profile. Trossard is a good player, but he doesn't provide that. We should have trusted Nwaneri as he is a like for like change in terms of style. I think Arteta was overly cautious and it cost us a lot of points while Odegaard was out.

But overall, do I think we're a overly defensive team? No, I don't. We're just good at defending. The same way I don't think we're overly reliant at set pieces. We're just good at set pieces. Any attempt to point to fairly obvious metrics that suggest we're not the second coming of Stoke have been shouted down, so I won't point to any. But I think it's fairly obvious that we not bad at attacking seeing as, you know, we attack very well.

I don’t think anyone is saying you are “bad at attacking” though, just that it’s often not great to watch. Which isn’t surprising given how the team has been built and structured now. Timber/White/Calafiori are all basically ball playing CBs that were moved to FB to gain a physical advantage even if they aren’t going to be flying up and down the touch line or creating for fun. Rice has had to move to a more box to box type physical midfielder because he couldn’t progress from deep as a 6. Merino is another box crashing physical CM type. Martinelli is basically a faster version of Garnacho and pretty rough to watch even if he’s effective as that wide outlet. Trossard is a budget Jota, quality in the box but not really clever or inventive. Havertz is useful as a pivot point but is about as unentertaining as it gets to watch a player.

So you’re left with Saka/Odegaard as the players that will get you off your seat or wow you, and when both are playing it makes for an incredibly difficult team to play against because even if they arent creating much from open play, every corner is guaranteed to be a chance created as well. And then if they score one or two the game will open up and the all of those less inventive players will have an easier time in general as opportunities won’t require the same level of cutting edge.

But hey that’s just my view as an opposing fan. Very good team, one of the tougher teams to play against in the world right now, but not really a team I’m ever going to carve out time in my day to watch in a big matchup.

 

[Daydreamer]

So are you quite satisfied with this more workman like Arsenal? I’ve still not seen many clear answers about it.

Yeah, I enjoy watching my team beating our biggest rivals (I grew up in the 90s, so it goes Spurs then United to me). We tend to batter the smaller teams and find a way to get a result against the bigger teams. If that's what you mean by "more workman like", then I'm not just satisfied, I actively enjoy it. In fact, had we been a little more workman like against City, Liverpool and Chelsea, those draws would have been wins (particiularly City where we were seconds from winning with 10 men) and we would currently be top of the league.

In terms of there not being many clear answers about it...

It's like watching Mourinho Chelsea without the trophies. No league winners really play that sort of football anymore. I haven't said anything about results, so you're answering a question I didn't ask. Do you enjoy watching your team? It's a pretty simple question.

Yeah, I do.

There have been loads of clear answers from Arsenal fans in this thread. But, like yourself, we just keep getting asked the same question. It's bizarre.

 

[FriedClams]

Yeah, I enjoy watching my team beating our biggest rivals (I grew up in the 90s, so it goes Spurs then United to me). We tend to batter the smaller teams and find a way to get a result against the bigger teams. If that's what you mean by "more workman like", then I'm not just satisfied, I actively enjoy it. In fact, had we been a little more workman like against City, Liverpool and Chelsea, those draws would have been wins (particiularly City where we were seconds from winning with 10 men) and we would currently be top of the league.

In terms of there not being many clear answers about it...


There have been loads of clear answers from Arsenal fans in this thread. But, like yourself, we just keep getting asked the same question. It's bizarre.

What’s even more bizarre is that Arsenal are supposed to be in such a great spot at the moment, yet arteta has been out trophied by Erik Ten Hag, and out European finalled by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

 

[Mick1991]

Tony Pulis would be proud. They ain’t the first team to be decent at a set piece.

 

[TheReligion]

Why are most Arsenal fans weird?

Working out how many corners per minute they won and at what ratio.

Always very defensive (ironic huh) despite the fact there’s an interesting discussion to be had about the evolution of Arteta and what his reasons have been.

 

[Posh Red]

Yeah, I enjoy watching my team beating our biggest rivals (I grew up in the 90s, so it goes Spurs then United to me). We tend to batter the smaller teams and find a way to get a result against the bigger teams. If that's what you mean by "more workman like", then I'm not just satisfied, I actively enjoy it. In fact, had we been a little more workman like against City, Liverpool and Chelsea, those draws would have been wins (particiularly City where we were seconds from winning with 10 men) and we would currently be top of the league.

In terms of there not being many clear answers about it...


There have been loads of clear answers from Arsenal fans in this thread. But, like yourself, we just keep getting asked the same question. It's bizarre.

I don’t get why you’re being so defensive, but thanks for the reply.

 

[Daydreamer]

I don’t get why you’re being so defensive, but thanks for the reply.

I’m confused, what part of that do find defensive?

 

[GoonerBear]

Maybe Mourinho's Chelsea is most accurate, in the big games Arteta sets out to be solid away from home, be solid, be resolute, and then try and play your football from there.

At home and against smaller teams, it's more pro active usually, high press, try and force high turnovers, smother teams almost.

I quite like the fact we seem competent at both style of plays to be honest. I like the way we had put focus on set plays as the more ways you have of scoring the better, especially in the absence of a clutch goalscorer like Salah or Haaland who can get goals at any time.

 

[RuudTom83]

You don't have to watch Arsenal every week to know that we've been comfortably the second best team in the country for the last couple of seasons.

I agree Arsenal for the previous 2 seasons were the 2nd best. Not the best obviously but the 2nd best has become an odd medal of honour for the Gunners.

But this season…hmm I’m not so sure, too early to say after a dozen games.

If they finish 3rd then I’d start to wonder if Arteta is the right man for the job

Changing topic, the cup game will be a Take 2 of last nights game so that should be a good match up to see if United can learn quickly.

 

[Daydreamer]

Maybe Mourinho's Chelsea is most accurate, in the big games Arteta sets out to be solid away from home, be solid, be resolute, and then try and play your football from there.

At home and against smaller teams, it's more pro active usually, high press, try and force high turnovers, smother teams almost.

I quite like the fact we seem competent at both style of plays to be honest. I like the way we had put focus on set plays as the more ways you have of scoring the better, especially in the absence of a clutch goalscorer like Salah or Haaland who can get goals at any time.

Yep, this pretty fair.

The funny thing is, we found it hard to create because of United's defensive tactics. The system we find most difficult to face is a well organised mid block. Last season Porto, Bayern, Newcastle and Villa all neutralised us playing that way. The year before, Amorim's very own Sporting side knocked us out of the Europa the same way.

I was very impressed by the containing job Amorim did in the first half, but I think United were always going to tire out. Once he's able to get his own players in, things could quickly change. It was very defensive though, which is why at first In thought the anti-football cries about Arsenal were ironic. It took me a second to realise United fans were being serious.

One thing Mourinho was a master of that I think Arteta is emulating fairly well is his ability to convince flair players to work hard. Mourinho's man management skills enabled him to play Eto'o as a hard working winger who did a huge amount of tracking back. When you see the amount of running Martinelli, Saka and especially Odegaard get through each game, you have to be impressed by their efforts as well as the buy in that Arteta has got from them.

 

[Daydreamer]

I agree Arsenal for the previous 2 seasons were the 2nd best. Not the best obviously but the 2nd best has become an odd medal of honour for the Gunners.

I said this just to point out that you don't have to watch us every week to know that we must play decent football at least some of the time, surely.

Changing topic, the cup game will be a Take 2 of last nights game so that should be a good match up to see if United can learn quickly.

As I've said above, I think Amorim 's tactics are generally a bit of nightmare for us. Our saving grace may well be that he'll still have quite a few players that aren't fit enough / not suited to his system by then. I think the United / Arsenal fixtures next season are going to be very difficult for us.

 

[ArtetaInInIn]

What’s even more bizarre is that Arsenal are supposed to be in such a great spot at the moment, yet arteta has been out trophied by Erik Ten Hag, and out European finalled by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

Wenger won 3 FA Cups in 4 years. Fans, including myself still wanted him out because there was zero expectation he could compete for the league. Add to the fact we suffered an array of heavy defeats to top class opponents in Europe and England. I much prefer the past two seasons plus this one, than that 4-year span when Wenger won 3 FA Cups.

This is why I roll my eyes when United fans reference ETH's 2 trophies. Because I genuinely believe you would prefer to compete at the top end, be in the title race, & not get smacked by rivals on a constant basis. Under Arteta we haven't lost a big 6 game in about 15 games. The last time either City, Man United, Liverpool Chelsea or Tottenham beat us in the league was in the 21-22 season when City beat us 41. We didnt lose home or away in the 10 fixtures last year. Pus this year we have drew with Chelsea, Liverpool, City, and beaten Spurs and Man United = currently on a 15 game unbeaten streak v the top 6.

Not getting beat 8-2, or in your case 7-0. Not losing 6 nil to Chelsea, or in your case 5 nil to Liverpool. Not losing 5-0 to Man City, or in your case 6-3. I used to laothe getting slapped up. However, under Arteta, we dont suffer these defeats against our rivals at all - as mentioned , we dont lose to our rivals in the league in head to head matched.

Would I go back to those dark days just for an FA Cup...............no way. And thats the reason you sacked ETH. Because the FA Cup and League Cup are not enough. You need to compete for the league. You need to be in the CL.

Its a stupid argument. Arteta is miles better than ETH.

 

[FriedClams]

Wenger won 3 FA Cups in 4 years. Fans, including myself still wanted him out because there was zero expectation he could compete for the league. Add to the fact we suffered an array of heavy defeats to top class opponents in Europe and England. I much prefer the past two seasons plus this one, than that 4-year span when Wenger won 3 FA Cups.

This is why I roll my eyes when United fans reference ETH's 2 trophies. Because I genuinely believe you would prefer to compete at the top end, be in the title race, & not get smacked by rivals on a constant basis. Under Arteta we haven't lost a big 6 game in about 15 games. The last time either City, Man United, Liverpool Chelsea or Tottenham beat us in the league was in the 21-22 season when City beat us 41. We didnt lose home or away in the 10 fixtures last year. Pus this year we have drew with Chelsea, Liverpool, City, and beaten Spurs and Man United = currently on a 15 game unbeaten streak v the top 6.

Not getting beat 8-2, or in your case 7-0. Not losing 6 nil to Chelsea, or in your case 5 nil to Liverpool. Not losing 5-0 to Man City, or in your case 6-3. I used to laothe getting slapped up. However, under Arteta, we dont suffer these defeats against our rivals at all - as mentioned , we dont lose to our rivals in the league in head to head matched.

Would I go back to those dark days just for an FA Cup...............no way. And thats the reason you sacked ETH. Because the FA Cup and League Cup are not enough. You need to compete for the league. You need to be in the CL.

Its a stupid argument. Arteta is miles better than ETH.

He’s actually only 3% better in terms of win percentage

 

[iKnowNothing]

Wenger won 3 FA Cups in 4 years. Fans, including myself still wanted him out because there was zero expectation he could compete for the league. Add to the fact we suffered an array of heavy defeats to top class opponents in Europe and England. I much prefer the past two seasons plus this one, than that 4-year span when Wenger won 3 FA Cups.

This is why I roll my eyes when United fans reference ETH's 2 trophies. Because I genuinely believe you would prefer to compete at the top end, be in the title race, & not get smacked by rivals on a constant basis. Under Arteta we haven't lost a big 6 game in about 15 games. The last time either City, Man United, Liverpool Chelsea or Tottenham beat us in the league was in the 21-22 season when City beat us 41. We didnt lose home or away in the 10 fixtures last year. Pus this year we have drew with Chelsea, Liverpool, City, and beaten Spurs and Man United = currently on a 15 game unbeaten streak v the top 6.

Not getting beat 8-2, or in your case 7-0. Not losing 6 nil to Chelsea, or in your case 5 nil to Liverpool. Not losing 5-0 to Man City, or in your case 6-3. I used to laothe getting slapped up. However, under Arteta, we dont suffer these defeats against our rivals at all - as mentioned , we dont lose to our rivals in the league in head to head matched.

Would I go back to those dark days just for an FA Cup...............no way. And thats the reason you sacked ETH. Because the FA Cup and League Cup are not enough. You need to compete for the league. You need to be in the CL.

Its a stupid argument. Arteta is miles better than ETH.

I don't want to argue that EtH was better for United than Arteta has been for Arsenal. However I do have a question regarding Arteta - how long will Arsenal fans be comfortable with just "competing in league" and being a "top 4 club". If I remember correctly, back when Wenger was around, Arsenal fans were not happy just being a "top 4 club".

Also, in the past few years, Arsenal haven't really been "competing for the league" either. They were competing the last 2 years, but this season, they've fallen behind by 7 points. The football isn't pretty, so is the team really making "progress" after having spent all this money? There's gotta be some pressure on Arteta to deliver.. surely?

Season	Arsenal Position/points	League Winners points
2019/20	Covid, half season for Arteta, so this season doesn't matter
2020/21	8th/61 points	City 86
2021/22	5th/69 points	City 93
2022/23	2nd/84 points	City 89
2023/24	2nd/89points	City 91
2024/25 [14 games played]	3rd/28 points	Liverpool 35

 

[berbatrick]

I don't want to argue that EtH was better for United than Arteta has been for Arsenal. However I do have a question regarding Arteta - how long will Arsenal fans be comfortable with just "competing in league" and being a "top 4 club". If I remember correctly, back when Wenger was around, Arsenal fans were not happy just being a "top 4 club".

Also, in the past few years, Arsenal haven't really been "competing for the league" either. They were competing the last 2 years, but this season, they've fallen behind by 7 points. The football isn't pretty, so is the team really making "progress" after having spent all this money? There's gotta be some pressure on Arteta to deliver.. surely?

Season	Arsenal Position/points	League Winners points
2019/20	Covid, half season for Arteta, so this season doesn't matter
2020/21	8th/61 points	City 86
2021/22	5th/69 points	City 93
2022/23	2nd/84 points	City 89
2023/24	2nd/89points	City 91
2024/25 [14 games played]	3rd/28 points	Liverpool 35

I don't think finishing second, 2 or 5 points behind the winner, on a points total that would usually be enough to win the PL before Pep, is the same as the "top 4" seasons Wenger was delivering from 2009 onwards.

And, having seen EtH's 2 trophy spell, and vaguely remembering Wenger's 3 FA Cup farewell seasons, I agree with the Arsenal fans here that challenging for the league is better than winning a cup and going nowhere in the league. Though of course most people here disagree with that and value trophies above all else.

e - also worth pointing out that they don't get beaten anymore. Abiding memory of late Wenger, and all of ETH, is big score thrashings from City and Liverpool. Arsenal have stopped that. I think when remembering a season, those count a lot as well.

 

[B20]

Honestly, Arteta has had five years to develop this team and this is what he ends up with?

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Wenger won 3 FA Cups in 4 years. Fans, including myself still wanted him out because there was zero expectation he could compete for the league. Add to the fact we suffered an array of heavy defeats to top class opponents in Europe and England. I much prefer the past two seasons plus this one, than that 4-year span when Wenger won 3 FA Cups.

This is why I roll my eyes when United fans reference ETH's 2 trophies. Because I genuinely believe you would prefer to compete at the top end, be in the title race, & not get smacked by rivals on a constant basis. Under Arteta we haven't lost a big 6 game in about 15 games. The last time either City, Man United, Liverpool Chelsea or Tottenham beat us in the league was in the 21-22 season when City beat us 41. We didnt lose home or away in the 10 fixtures last year. Pus this year we have drew with Chelsea, Liverpool, City, and beaten Spurs and Man United = currently on a 15 game unbeaten streak v the top 6.

Not getting beat 8-2, or in your case 7-0. Not losing 6 nil to Chelsea, or in your case 5 nil to Liverpool. Not losing 5-0 to Man City, or in your case 6-3. I used to laothe getting slapped up. However, under Arteta, we dont suffer these defeats against our rivals at all - as mentioned , we dont lose to our rivals in the league in head to head matched.

Would I go back to those dark days just for an FA Cup...............no way. And thats the reason you sacked ETH. Because the FA Cup and League Cup are not enough. You need to compete for the league. You need to be in the CL.

Its a stupid argument. Arteta is miles better than ETH.

We beat you 3-1 at home in the league in the 2022-23 season.

 

[Judas]

I do think its quite funny that in the end after all these years, this is his plan to get Arsenal to win the league. I suppose at least he's thinking for himself and not copying Pep now.

 

[Highfather_24]

I do think its quite funny that in the end after all these years, this is his plan to get Arsenal to win the league. I suppose at least he's thinking for himself and not copying Pep now.

Its funny because growing up for me Arsenal was always the team which was all style, no substance. Be a bit physical against them, and they would crumble. Interesting turnaround.

 

[GoonerBear]

Again you are not getting my point. It is not about how one individual fans feel or what they feel. The expectations at United are crazy (without any consideration of the reality). This season is a write off but if next season we finish 8th and the season after again misses out on top 4 without winning any major silverware then he would be gone. You talk about context, eth was horrible and am not defending him but even he could say last season our injury record was so bad so we finished 8th. Did the pressure become any less for him.

Ole was hounded, mocked by press even when we finished 2nd and lost the europa final. Jose was hounded after he finished 2nd and got knocked out to sevilla in ro16 in CL. The press makes your job tough.

I am not saying arteta always had it easy, he had his pressure but the board backed him. Will United board back him after two failed season with little progress, I doubt. Forget United, no top club unfortunately backs manager after that. Arteta was lucky he got backed and it is proving a right call till now, eventhough you guys have to win the big one eventually.

I missed this yesterday. Listen, I'm not naive, I know the size of Utd, I know the expectations, I know the scrutiny. Your a bigger club than Arsenal on every scale, but let's not pretend Arsenal aren't a big club in its own right, just behind Utd & Liverpool in terms of trophies won and history. We have our own expectations, one that the best manager in our modern era stopped living up to and we had to let him go.

I appreciate Arteta was afforded patience, but if your going to appoint a rookie manager with no managerial experience, then you aren't doing that for a quick fix, that's for sure.

And yeah, then he was then backed with money. Let's not forget, the money didn't really come straight away for him, he joined mid season and his January window was to get Pablo Mari and Cedic Soares on loan, and his first summer was basically getting Partey and Gabriel for about £70M and William on a free.

And like I said, the pressure was on him massively in the December of that year. If that form lasted another few games, that's the 1 time he could easily have been sacked. But then, he turned the form around 2nd half of the season. Thats what I'm trying to emphasise, the 8th place finish in his first full season in isolation looks poor (I don't really count his first half season). So while the record books show that 8th place finish there is nuance to it, and it was turning that corner when he did that ultimately saved his job. Also, don't forget, this was during Covid times. Training was difficult, match days were difficult, how do you try and change and impose a new culture with all that nonsense was going on?

Here's a question for you, do you think ETH would be sacked if he was sitting 4th or 5th just now?

 

[tomaldinho1]

They are heading to another trophyless season with top 4 ..
And having Gabriel as their top scorer

It’s weird, I think Arteta was right with the approach last season (and really they should have won the league but for ref decisions) because the goals were spread out, they had a great defence but still played good stuff. This season it’s like he’s gone full Mourinho/Pulis love child.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I do think its quite funny that in the end after all these years, this is his plan to get Arsenal to win the league. I suppose at least he's thinking for himself and not copying Pep now.

He’s definitely progressed.

Now he’s copying NFL screen pass plays.

 

[ArtetaInInIn]

We beat you 3-1 at home in the league in the 2022-23 season.

Oh yeah. 23 -24 season we10 matches unbeaten v top 6 opponents. and currently on a 5 game unbeaten streak.

Got my years mixed up. But fact remains, Arsenal haven't lost against Chelsea, Man United, Man City, Liverpool, or Tottenham in our last 15 league matches aginst them

 

[GoonerBear]

It’s weird, I think Arteta was right with the approach last season (and really they should have won the league but for ref decisions) because the goals were spread out, they had a great defence but still played good stuff. This season it’s like he’s gone full Mourinho/Pulis love child.

Interesting. You think there's been a major shift from last season? I think we got 20 goals from set pieces last season from 91 goals so 22%.

This season so far I think we have 7 from 28 goals so 25%.

For comparison sakes, I think I read Utd have scored 5 from 17 goals from set pieces this season, so 29%.

 

[The Corinthian]

He's a bottler. The whole team are.

 

[Donaldo]

It’s weird, I think Arteta was right with the approach last season (and really they should have won the league but for ref decisions) because the goals were spread out, they had a great defence but still played good stuff. This season it’s like he’s gone full Mourinho/Pulis love child.

Clearly didn't watch us in the first half of the season then. It was very much like this one. Only post December did we kick on and go on a crazy run.

For whoever was wondering and for what it's worth, I look forward to watching us every week, and have done for the last 2.5 years or so, more so than in the last 10 years, say. The players re exciting, the club's in a good place, the support is tremendous. The lack of a world-class striker is glaring but we're making do with goals from other avenues - though I don't believe that's what can take us to a title unfortunately.

Scoffing at goals from set pieces is hilarious btw. Does it result in 10% of a goal or something?

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

It was annoying that we conceded two set piece goals and Arteta is annoying in general.

But I feel with all the Pep light's out there, it is refreshing to see someone go the old school set piece route. I genuinely hope they find a Delap style thrower as well, it is more interesting to watch contrasting styles than the same old Pep vs Pep football.