Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Donaldo said:
We were Europa League standard, heading toward bog standard, with overpaid players, terrible fan sentiment at home and away, and with no thought or direction to our style of play or within the club at all. Add chancers like Sven and you had bits of corruption creeping in to a very very toxic environment.

Mikel has been the main contributor to turning that around to the point where we're counted as contenders, and a Champions League club again. You underestimate just how far in the darkness this club had been and for how many years, though United supporters of all should understand it more than anyone.
Click to expand...
I'm not denying he did a good job, I'm just saying that he was supported way more than any top established manager would get at any big club, and the assumption that his achievement is unique is wrong. He was given so much time and money, so he's meeting expectations. He's yet to reach the promise land which is understandable considering the competition, but he still needs to do more to be considered a great manager imo.
 
SuperiorXI said:
"Rashford wouldn't survive under Arteta" - and how would Arteta get rid of him then? The problem is his wage, no one with half a brain cell is going to sign Rashford on anything close to the wages he's on, he's locked in a long term contract, we're stuck with him.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you’ve missed on this one. The club backed Arteta in exactly this way on a bunch of our highest earners.
 
I love how everyone is so sure Amorim would get the sack if we finished 8th next year. Ten Hag finished 8th in his second season and wasn't sacked. Arteta's first window was also affected by COVID, which probably meant they couldn't invest as they otherwise would have.

Besides, the question wasn't originally whether a United manager would survive finishing 8th, it was whether a United manager would survive winning one FA Cup in four full seasons. If said United manager would have been challanging for the title in the two most recent year, I doubt even the United board would have be stupid enough to sack such a manager.
 
Would take great pleasure in seeing a player go through him when he is carrying on with his nonsense so close to the pitch. Referees clearly have no interest in keeping him away from side-line.
 
Are Arsenal fans happy at this point with how their team plays? I get that this sort of football would have been accepted in previous seasons as Arteta was trying to bring the team to a new place, but you are now one of the top teams in the league and seem to be getting worse to watch as time goes on.

Do you not care as long as some sort of large trophy comes out of it? All the Arsenal fans I've ever known were always about style of play and enjoying watching the team, that was basically a personality trait of Arsenal fans. That could have been a defense mechanism for those times, but still, you're now basically like Stoke on steroids, with a fortune spent, and don't look to be winning much again at this point.
 
RedC said:
Are Arsenal fans happy at this point with how their team plays? I get that this sort of football would have been accepted in previous seasons as Arteta was trying to bring the team to a new place, but you are now one of the top teams in the league and seem to be getting worse to watch as time goes on.

Do you not care as long as some sort of large trophy comes out of it? All the Arsenal fans I've ever known were always about style of play and enjoying watching the team, that was basically a personality trait of Arsenal fans. That could have been a defense mechanism for those times, but still, you're now basically like Stoke on steroids, with a fortune spent, and don't look to be winning much again at this point.
Click to expand...
I’m more amused at the hissy fit.

Arsenal have scored 119 goals in the league since the start of last season, 21 of which have been set pieces. Even if you took away every single goal we’ve scored from a set piece (and let United keep all of theirs to be charitable) we still would have outscored United by 25 goals.

The idea that we’re overly reliant on set pieces has been hilariously overblown.
 
Daydreamer said:
I’m more amused at the hissy fit.

Arsenal have scored 119 goals in the league since the start of last season, 21 of which have been set pieces. Even if you took away every single goal we’ve scored from a set piece (and let United keep all of theirs to be charitable) we still would have outscored United by 25 goals.

The idea that we’re overly reliant on set pieces has been hilariously overblown.
Click to expand...
I wasn't talking about the set piece stuff specifically there, I just don't think you're very enjoyable to watch as a team? It's like football from a bygone era, I'd personally only really enjoy it if it lead to raking in major trophies.
 
Shinjch said:
Would take great pleasure in seeing a player go through him when he is carrying on with his nonsense so close to the pitch. Referees clearly have no interest in keeping him away from side-line.
Click to expand...
Crumpled up, smashed against the hoardings like Smashley did to Di Maria.
 
RedC said:
I wasn't talking about the set piece stuff specifically there, I just don't think you're very enjoyable to watch as a team? It's like football from a bygone era, I'd personally only really enjoy it if it lead to raking in major trophies.
Click to expand...
That’s how I read your post, too, and am interested to heard the fans thoughts. Unsure what hissy fit the poster was referring to.

Are they happy to play percentage football, rather than attempt a more attractive brand of football?
 
RedC said:
I wasn't talking about the set piece stuff specifically there, I just don't think you're very enjoyable to watch as a team? It's like football from a bygone era, I'd personally only really enjoy it if it lead to raking in major trophies.
Click to expand...
Which bygone era would that be?

Since the last international break we we’ve played Forest and United at home as well as away games at West Ham and Sporting Lisbon (who hadn’t lost at home for over a year). The scores were…

3 - 0
5 - 1
5 - 2
2 - 0

The goals are spread around the team as within those game each goal had a different scorer.

Then United come to the Emirates, play for a draw, don’t have a shot at all for 40 minutes, don’t have an effort on target for 60 minutes and then get picked off from a couple of the 13 corners conceded during the game and suddenly we’re the second coming of Stoke. If anyone was playing anti-football yesterday, it wasn’t Arsenal.
 
Posh Red said:
That’s how I read your post, too, and am interested to heard the fans thoughts. Unsure what hissy fit the poster was referring to.

Are they happy to play percentage football, rather than attempt a more attractive brand of football?
Click to expand...
Just look through the Post Arsenal thread. Or this thread. The overreactions are pretty funny.
 
I guess not everyone on a United forum is going to be watching Arsenal every week.

But how teams perform in the big games is generally more memorable and talked about.

Will be interesting to see how Arsenal take on Liverpool/City now and if they will use the same tactic again.

A tactic that is perfectly fine to use btw, but you just have to accept the flack that comes with it on socials.

If they win the league then nobody will care, if they don’t then it’s a step backwards from the previous 2 campaigns.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I guess not everyone on a United forum is going to be watching Arsenal every week.

But how teams perform in the big games is generally more memorable and talked about.

Will be interesting to see how Arsenal take on Liverpool/City now and if they will use the same tactic again.

A tactic that is perfectly fine to use btw, but you just have to accept the flack that comes with it on socials.

If they win the league then nobody will care, if they don’t then it’s a step backwards from the previous 2 campaigns.
Click to expand...
We totally dominated Liverpool till most of our team went off injured and they scored an equaliser.

Last year we easily beat both of them at home as well. Comfortable against City and again dominated Liverpool at home. Unbeaten against Chelsea for years now as well.

When one team is totally set up to defend then sometimes set pieces are how you win. And it's not like corners are gifted. They come after repeated pressure. United conceded on average one corner every 6 minutes yesterday.


And ironically your best chance was a set peice too.
 
They won’t win the league under him and I have a feeling they peaked last year. They’re an incredibly hard watch, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Spurs are all more entertaining to watch. I also think they’ll finish fourth at best (behind City, Chelsea, and Liverpool).

It’s a shame because I like a lot about Arsenal. They went about things the right way under Wenger to build a bigger stadium, be savvy in the market, and consistently be in the top four to be in a strong financial position long term, only for Chelsea and City to render a lot of that obsolete (or at least not enough) through a billionaire pumping ungodly amounts of money from outside football and an oil state ownership.
 
Shinjch said:
Would take great pleasure in seeing a player go through him when he is carrying on with his nonsense so close to the pitch. Referees clearly have no interest in keeping him away from side-line.
Click to expand...

Has anyone actually done it? Carragher mentioned on the watch along that he would have - which i could imagine - along with the likes of Rooney, Scholes, Keane etc.
 
Golden Nugget said:
Has anyone actually done it? Carragher mentioned on the watch along that he would have - which i could imagine - along with the likes of Rooney, Scholes, Keane etc.
Click to expand...
Don't think so, but it's only a matter of time if he carries on the way he has been and the wrong (or right) player fancies taking a chance.
 
Daydreamer said:
Which bygone era would that be?

Since the last international break we we’ve played Forest and United at home as well as away games at West Ham and Sporting Lisbon (who hadn’t lost at home for over a year). The scores were…

3 - 0
5 - 1
5 - 2
2 - 0

The goals are spread around the team as within those game each goal had a different scorer.

Then United come to the Emirates, play for a draw, don’t have a shot at all for 40 minutes, don’t have an effort on target for 60 minutes and then get picked off from a couple of the 13 corners conceded during the game and suddenly we’re the second coming of Stoke. If anyone was playing anti-football yesterday, it wasn’t Arsenal.
Click to expand...
It's like watching Mourinho Chelsea without the trophies. No league winners really play that sort of football anymore. I haven't said anything about results, so you're answering a question I didn't ask. Do you enjoy watching your team? It's a pretty simple question.
 
Arteta is the least likeable manager in the league. He should be fined after the game for stepping outside his technical area.
 
He was literally on the touch line a few times and nothing said to him . Starting to dislike him and we’ve to face them in the cup also so maybe Casemiro or Ugarte might take him out of it hopefully
 
RedC said:
It's like watching Mourinho Chelsea without the trophies. No league winners really play that sort of football anymore. I haven't said anything about results, so you're answering a question I didn't ask. Do you enjoy watching your team? It's a pretty simple question.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I do.
 
ArtetasHair said:
We totally dominated Liverpool till most of our team went off injured and they scored an equaliser.

Last year we easily beat both of them at home as well. Comfortable against City and again dominated Liverpool at home. Unbeaten against Chelsea for years now as well.

When one team is totally set up to defend then sometimes set pieces are how you win. And it's not like corners are gifted. They come after repeated pressure. United conceded on average one corner every 6 minutes yesterday.


And ironically your best chance was a set peice too.
Click to expand...
Don't be daft, the corners were awarded to us by the Premier League before the start of the game.
 
Red00012 said:
He was literally on the touch line a few times and nothing said to him . Starting to dislike him and we’ve to face them in the cup also so maybe Casemiro or Ugarte might take him out of it hopefully
Click to expand...
It’s a joke, he was virtually Malacias direct opponent in the first half
 
RuudTom83 said:
I guess not everyone on a United forum is going to be watching Arsenal every week.

But how teams perform in the big games is generally more memorable and talked about.

Will be interesting to see how Arsenal take on Liverpool/City now and if they will use the same tactic again.

A tactic that is perfectly fine to use btw, but you just have to accept the flack that comes with it on socials.

If they win the league then nobody will care, if they don’t then it’s a step backwards from the previous 2 campaigns.
Click to expand...
You don't have to watch Arsenal every week to know that we've been comfortably the second best team in the country for the last couple of seasons.

I'm happy accepting the flak because I think it's funny. Arsenal were the more dominant side by quite a distance and we won the game. "The goals you scored against us came from corners" doesn't sting at all. That's just acknowledging that we're very good at an important part of the game. Check the next highest scorers off of set pieces... it's Liverpool and City.
 
Daydreamer said:
You don't have to watch Arsenal every week to know that we've been comfortably the second best team in the country for the last couple of seasons.

I'm happy accepting the flak because I think it's funny. Arsenal were the more dominant side by quite a distance and we won the game. "The goals you scored against us came from corners" doesn't sting at all. That's just acknowledging that we're very good at an important part of the game. Check the next highest scorers off of set pieces... it's Liverpool and City.
Click to expand...

Congratulations. One for the grandkids
 
Have to say, I find it funny. We are fine, product wise on the pitch. There a few times where I would like us to be more adventurous. There are some games where the criticism is warranted. But yesterday sounds like sour grapes to me. We were by far the better team in the second half. Corners do not come in a vacuum, especially not 13 of them. You have to earn the corners first of all, something Man Utd didn't do during the game. 13 corners means you are likely controlling the game...which we did, especially in the second half.Secondly, scoring off a corner isnt easy. The way Rice was pinging those balls in is a skill. It's like a free kick in terms of preciseness.

We are not particularly built as an aerial team. Most of our passes are along the ground, and it's not like we have Crouch type figure waiting to clunk it in.

There is a legitimate gripe about one of the goals that could have been chalked off, but that we play for corners is ridiculous. We will take the corners gladly if they are presented...By the way, stop giving them! A corner is not like a foul in the opposing end. A corner against us is like an indirect free kick around the box.... exactly the same. Give 10+ of those every game and we will likely score one. Defend the previous open play better and defend further up the pitch in general.
 
Interesting to see how they’ve evolved in recent years. Thought they were brilliant to watch in the year before Xhaka left. Now it’s a bit like watching an aggressive version of Mourinhos Chelsea. You can see how vital Odegaard is because when he’s out it’s basically Saka and corners as their best hope for creating things.

I do think a lot of their unlikeableness comes from Arteta. His antics have gotten worse and worse over the years. Their backline is brilliant when fit. I mean yeah that’s about it
 
Red00012 said:
He was literally on the touch line a few times and nothing said to him . Starting to dislike him and we’ve to face them in the cup also so maybe Casemiro or Ugarte might take him out of it hopefully
Click to expand...
Impressive that it's only just starting.
 
Changeisgood said:
Have to say, I find it funny. We are fine, product wise on the pitch. There a few times where I would like us to be more adventurous. There are some games where the criticism is warranted. But yesterday sounds like sour grapes to me. We were by far the better team in the second half. Corners do not come in a vacuum, especially not 13 of them. You have to earn the corners first of all, something Man Utd didn't do during the game. 13 corners means you are likely controlling the game...which we did, especially in the second half.Secondly, scoring off a corner isnt easy. The way Rice was pinging those balls in is a skill. It's like a free kick in terms of preciseness.

We are not particularly built as an aerial team. Most of our passes are along the ground, and it's not like we have Crouch type figure waiting to clunk it in.

There is a legitimate gripe about one of the goals that could have been chalked off, but that we play for corners is ridiculous. We will take the corners gladly if they are presented...By the way, stop giving them! A corner is not like a foul in the opposing end. A corner against us is like an indirect free kick around the box.... exactly the same. Give 10+ of those every game and we will likely score one. Defend the previous open play better and defend further up the pitch in general.
Click to expand...
This suggests that we earned 13 opportunities for Saka and Rice to deliver their quality deliveries into the box through being the more dominant team in open play. Which is quite frankly absurd.
 
If this football wins them the title then who cares. But if they let slot win the title in his first season then questions have to be asked.
 
Daydreamer said:
This suggests that we earned 13 opportunities for Saka and Rice to deliver their quality deliveries into the box through being the more dominant team in open play. Which is quite frankly absurd.
Click to expand...
Preposterous really.

How long do you lot figure before the other teams try to copy Arsenal's movement on corners? The same teams complaining about it now in all likelihood. Pep is probably looking into it right now. I am glad we have that ability... it's a bonus. It wont be a bonus for too long as other teams likely will join in and pay more attention to it.

If Man Utd had that ability right now to add that dimension, the fans would gladly take it....or would they say, ummm scoring off corners is unethical?
 
Changeisgood said:
Preposterous really.

How long do you lot figure before the other teams try to copy Arsenal's movement on corners? The same teams complaining about it now in all likelihood. Pep is probably looking into it right now. I am glad we have that ability... it's a bonus. It wont be a bonus for too long as other teams likely will join in and pay more attention to it.

If Man Utd had that ability right now to add that dimension, the fans would gladly take it....or would they say, ummm scoring off corners is unethical?
Click to expand...
I think it’s difficult to copy for the same reason that George Graham’s back line was difficult to copy. It’s a combination of personnel and drilling. Saka and Rice’s delivery is top notch and you can see that Arteta and Jover have got the players bought into the hard work required on the training pitch.

That’s long term planning combined with skillful man management, with a high focus on marginal gains. Managers would have to be convinced that it’s worthwhile for their team. If their players don’t have both the skill and the desire to make it work, the benefit may not be worth the cost, in terms of time with the team that is gold dust to Managers.
 
You all seem to be taking this as some form of excuse for Utd instead of acknowledging the actual points. Utd deserved to lose last night, we were not the better team and did lose. Arsenal, however, were at home, 4 seasons into a project where they've spent a mountain of money, and still played like it was a cagey cup tie in 1995 against a crap Utd team with a brand new manager and a shit load of rotation, including a second string defence. Arsenal were playing nicer football earlier in the project than they are now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.