Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Topgun1 said:
But our standards were dropped by Wenger. Why would anyone deny that?

When he couldn't keep us in the top 4 anymore, he basically said he's always had us in the top 4 for a long time and that we should be grateful for that. Then he said we should be thankful we haven't been relegated. What kind of manager speaks like that? I'll tell you which one: a manager who feels he has a God-given right to remain in charge of Arsenal forever, and should not be questioned.

No matter what he's done for us early in his managerial stint, it doesn't give him the luxury to tank the club. I've remained consistent in his last 5 seasons that by the time he leaves us, we will be outside of the top 4 and will struggle to get back in. And I was right, and this is his legacy.

All those Wenger cultists were literally laughing at me for suggesting that we should fire Wenger and hire Klopp. I was suspended from the Arsenal forum for even making the suggestion that we should get rid of Wenger. Who's laughing now? It's not Arsenal. It's Liverpool.

You can't cherry pick his legacy. If he's going to take the credit for what Arsenal achieved when he came to the club, he absolutely must take responsibility for how he left the club: a complete & utter mess. And we're still trying to sort it out.

And as for, oh he wasn't given the resources blah blah blah, give me a break. He lost a title fight to Leicester. Do I need to say anything more? He drew with Atletico Madrid at home, despite leading 1-0 and with Atletico down to 10 men for nearly the entire match. Remember his pathetic attempt to get to the Europa league final? Something Emery managed to do in his first season?

Wenger was completely finished.
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Wenger wasn't backed financially by the ownership, he was forced to see his best players go to United, Barca, City, and Chelsea in the Emirates era. Wenger's legacy isn't how the club have done since he left, neither is SAF's legacy how MUFC have performed since he left.

Wenger lost a title fight to Leicester (a team he beat twice that season) yet you advocated for Klopp, who finished 8th that season with Liverpool and left Dortmund in 7th place the year before in a true two team league.
 
Bebestation said:
I think the job at Arsenal is easier.

The fans don't believe that the club is bigger than they are anymore and can appreciate a squad building for what it is.

If he can get a top 4-6 that's a good benefit for an improved young squad.
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I dont think its easier but I agree with the bolded part. I think fans/board understand that its basically rebuilding seasons and it'll take a while to get them to become a powerhouse again which IMO they are on track.
United, on the other hand, still believe or expect results like Ferguson era and have made spectacular purchases to attempt to replicate that as opposed to rebuilding.
Hopefully Rag changes the cultures within the club. The league needs both clubs back. Someone said on twitter that Pep is turning the league into farmers league. Hilarious but with a hint of truth.
 
Redandwhite22 said:
Wenger wasn't backed financially by the ownership, he was forced to see his best players go to United, Barca, City, and Chelsea in the Emirates era. Wenger's legacy isn't how the club have done since he left, neither is SAF's legacy how MUFC have performed since he left.

Wenger lost a title fight to Leicester (a team he beat twice that season) yet you advocated for Klopp, who finished 8th that season with Liverpool and left Dortmund in 7th place the year before in a true two team league.
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If my memory serves me correctly we were never in a title fight that year. That was Spurs. Spurs slipped up in the end and we got second. We were never close to challenge.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
If my memory serves me correctly we were never in a title fight that year. That was Spurs. Spurs slipped up in the end and we got second. We were never close to challenge.
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Right. 'Spurs came in third in a two-horse race' although we were kinda still in it when *** guy scored that header (similar to yesterday).
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
If my memory serves me correctly we were never in a title fight that year. That was Spurs. Spurs slipped up in the end and we got second. We were never close to challenge.
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It kind of gets lost in the bantering about being the only club that could end 3rd in a 2 horse race but thats not the case at all.

By gameweek 20, Arsenal were 1st in the table (ie 1st weekend of Jan), 6 points ahead of Spurs in 4th (who were behind both Leicester and Man City). Arsenal had also been 1st over Christmas. By gameweek 25, Spurs were 2nd but tied on points with Arsenal in 3rd. Even by gameweek 30, we were still 5 points behind Leicester and only 3 ahead of Arsenal in 3rd.

If my memory serves me right, I don't think we were even 1st at any point that season.

Though of course whether either of us should have been behind Leicester that season is another discussion.
 
africanspur said:
It kind of gets lost in the bantering about being the only club that could end 3rd in a 2 horse race but thats not the case at all.

By gameweek 20, Arsenal were 1st in the table (ie 1st weekend of Jan), 6 points ahead of Spurs in 4th (who were behind both Leicester and Man City). Arsenal had also been 1st over Christmas. By gameweek 25, Spurs were 2nd but tied on points with Arsenal in 3rd. Even by gameweek 30, we were still 5 points behind Leicester and only 3 ahead of Arsenal in 3rd.

If my memory serves me right, I don't think we were even 1st at any point that season.

Though of course whether either of us should have been behind Leicester that season is another discussion.
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February 14th, Welbeck heads a winner in the dying seconds to move Arsenal to within 2 points of Leicester at the top of the table.

Then in the next 3 league games we get beat at Old Trafford, beat at home to Swansea, & draw at Spurs. League challenge gone.
 
Mastadon said:
What divine right did Arsenal have to be a top 4 team to begin with?
People who wanted Wenger out and are happy with 6th place should dream we were still as good as we were in 15/16.
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Ignoring the final 2 seasons of Wenger makes you look dishonest though, that's the thing. He outspent Pochettino and still finished behind Pochettino in the PL in both of those seasons. He got outclassed by Pochettino in in the PL his final 2 seasons, just like he got outclassed by Ranieri in 15/16.

Wenger left us behind Tottenham, despite us spending more money and having more resources. Good luck trying to spin that.

And saying things like we have no right to expect to be top 4, completely proves my point about your disingenious take on lowering standards.
 
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TheGame said:
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Topgun1 said:
Ignoring the final 2 seasons of Wenger makes you look dishonest though, that's the thing. He outspent Pochettino and still finished behind Pochettino in the PL in both of those seasons. He got outclassed by Pochettino in in the PL his final 2 seasons, just like he got outclassed by Ranieri in 15/16.

Wenger left us behind Tottenham, despite us spending more money and having more resources. Good luck trying to spin that.

And saying things like we have no right to expect to be top 4, completely proves my point about your disingenious take on lowering standards.
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I specifically mentioned his last 2 seasons in a post above.We had about the 5th most expensive team and we finished 5th and 6th + an FA Cup. Not great definitely but not awful. What have his successors done since considering the large amounts we have spent in the last 4 seasons?

What is there to spin about Spurs?Poch was doing a fantastic job for them better than Wenger at the time.
 
Mastadon said:
I specifically mentioned his last 2 seasons in a post above.We had about the 5th most expensive team and we finished 5th and 6th + an FA Cup. Not great definitely but not awful. What have his successors done since considering the large amounts we have spent in the last 4 seasons?

What is there to spin about Spurs?Poch was doing a fantastic job for them better than Wenger at the time.
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But again, Wenger far outspent Pochettino and had a much higher wage budget. Yet Pochettino still finished ahead of him and put Spurs into the top 4.

Why do you keep repeating the lie that Wenger didn't have the resources to finish top 4, when he clearly did? Arteta btw won the FA Cup too & Emery got us to the Europa League final, something Wenger incidentally failed to do in his final season.

Wenger was fired precisely because he was unable to get into the top 4, and unable to win the Europa League to get us through to the Champions League via that route and was only capable of getting FA cups.

That's why he was fired.

Now, every time you criticize other managers for failing to get us a Champions League place, you're simply reinforcing why it was the correct decision to get rid of Wenger in the first place & it's stunning how you don't even realize that honestly.

I completely and totally agree with you that we spent eye-watering sums of money recently with absolutely nothing to show for it basically. But that's a separate discussion to Wenger, that's my point.

Just because it was the correct decision to get rid of Wenger, doesn't mean it was the correct decision to hire Arteta, or let Edu take charge of transfer decisions etc.

I still believe Arteta was completely the wrong choice and his lack of management ability in the big games is sad to see. However, Emery is the complete opposite. There was absolutely no chance we would have been eliminated in the Semi Final of the Europa League last year if Emery was in charge. It's so poetic that he eliminated Arteta & our club and went on to win that trophy. I'm very happy for him.

Emery didn't fail Arsenal, Arsenal failed Emery. He did very well with the resources he had, and it's frankly embarrassing for the board to get rid of him and hire Arteta. Also very insulting. A complete rookie!

It was a risky move and it didn't pay off. If he fails to finish top 4 this season as well, then it has been a spectacular failure with vast sums of cash down the drain.

/Rant
 
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Topgun1 said:
But again, Wenger far outspent Pochettino and had a much higher wage budget. Yet Pochettino still finished ahead of him and put Spurs into the top 4.

Why do you keep repeating the lie that Wenger didn't have the resources to finish top 4, when he clearly did? Arteta btw won the FA Cup too & Emery got us to the Europa League final, something Wenger incidentally failed to do in his final season.

Wenger was fired precisely because he was unable to get into the top 4, and unable to win the Europa League to get us through to the Champions League via that route and was only capable of getting FA cups.

That's why he was fired.

Now, every time you criticize other managers for failing to get us a Champions League place, you're simply reinforcing why it was the correct decision to get rid of Wenger in the first place & it's stunning how you don't even realize that honestly.

I completely and totally agree with you that we spent eye-watering sums of money recently with absolutely nothing to show for it basically. But that's a separate discussion to Wenger, that's my point.

Just because it was the correct decision to get rid of Wenger, doesn't mean it was the correct decision to hire Arteta, or let Edu take charge of transfer decisions etc.

I still believe Arteta was completely the wrong choice and his lack of management ability in the big games is sad to see. However, Emery is the complete opposite. There was absolutely no chance we would have been eliminated in the Semi Final of the Europa League last year if Emery was in charge. It's so poetic that he eliminated Arteta & our club and went on to win that trophy. I'm very happy for him.

Emery didn't fail Arsenal, Arsenal failed Emery. He did very well with the resources he had, and it's frankly embarrassing for the board to get rid of him and hire Arteta. Also very insulting. A complete rookie!

It was a risky move and it didn't pay off. If he fails to finish top 4 this season as well, then it has been a spectacular failure with vast sums of cash down the drain.

/Rant
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I realise you are completely obsessed in proving your point however you are either mistaken or deliberately misrepresenting the facts. Arsene Wenger wasn't fired, he chose to resign due to the continual poor behaviour of a group of bedsheet waving fans.

Let's see from you comparative figures in black & white displaying Wenger's budget over a period of years in competition with City, Liverpool, United etc so that you prove your case that Arsenal had more to spend than others because you keep banging on with your same old tale but I've yet to see you back it up with fact.

As far as I'm aware the only thing Arsenal has come top in during recent years is bums on seat ticket prices. If Kroenke spent in proportion to money coming in at the stadium in comparison with the rest of Europe, let alone the Premier League I'm sure Arsenal ought to be the best funded club in several leagues.
 
He’s got them playing decent stuff, certainly going toe to toe with city. Maybe he’s not as useless as is made out.
 
M Bison said:
He’s got them playing decent stuff, certainly going toe to toe with city. Maybe he’s not as useless as is made out.
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You could even argue they’ve dominated city in these first 30 minutes
 
Almost as if you need to weed out high earners who have become too comfortable and be given a bit of time to implement a style of play?

Who knew.
 
None of this is capable of happening at our club.

What Arteta achieved last year would result in a sack due to the pressure of the fans, money and the Glazers.

Our fans would complain for not seeing enough, for not getting the right players. For not getting a title challenge. Complaining about wanting to sell a good young player because they are not playing like a city player or Liverpool’s.

A building club atmosphere is not capable at our club - our clubs is circulated with glory hunters who wants glory in any quick chance they can get. Arteta has targeted some good youthful British players playing well from the own league - players our fans don't want because they are deemed not successful enough and over priced - whilst crying out for the next player available from the Bundesliga or Ligue 1; players from leagues that has failed us many many a time.

Its never changing. it might take us a good long time to realise that we need to change our mentality as a club, how's its run and how it's followed for us to have the ability to change how we physically play with our feet.
 
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Fair play, he's built a decent team now he's got a consistent starting 11. They look far better than us.
 
Arteta blud. He’s doing it. He’s doing his thing.
 
Very impressive recently tbf. They were tumescent for ages but lots of nice flowing moves now that Aubameyang’s not killing every attack and Martinelli’s bringing the urgency. Some class in midfield from Partey too.
 
I really like the fact that he has set his team up to try to take the game to city. Win or lose that bravery is refreshing and I think fans would appreciate it.
 
PoTMS said:
Wasn't he ASM under Van Gaal?
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Yep! He was van Gaal’s main man who then flopped at Genk (Belgium), then followed Giggs to be his assistant for Wales for a while
 
Stobzilla said:
Almost as if you need to weed out high earners who have become too comfortable and be given a bit of time to implement a style of play?

Who knew.
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I actually think this is very true. We need to do the same. We have about a million quid a week in wages, possibly a bit more, spread over many players which is a total waste as they barely contribute anything.

We need to go for a youthful approach too in the summer. Get rid of the oldies.
 
Brwned said:
Very impressive recently tbf. They were tumescent for ages but lots of nice flowing moves now that Aubameyang’s not killing every attack and Martinelli’s bringing the urgency. Some class in midfield from Partey too.
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Arteta had the balls to drop him, which is something a bit surprising. But now it's clear he was stinking up the place.
 
Amira said:
I really like the fact that he has set his team up to try to take the game to city. Win or lose that bravery is refreshing and I think fans would appreciate it.
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They outplayed City so far. Compared to our approach when we met them which was disgraceful. This match answered the question on whos better between him and Ole. I can definitely see a clear pattern of play and scheme on their tactics.
 
Watching Arsenal today bar the last 10 or so minutes is why I’m so keen to weed out some of our high earners and give the likes of Elanga, Diallo, Mejbri a go. I’m so tired of expensive marquee signings
 
Win on Monday and we are one point behind them with a game in hand. That’s with Arsenal having this fantastic season while Utd fired Ole.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Done in again by ceding the initiative, happens far too often to be excused.
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They outplayed City and would have been unfortunate to draw let alone lose. This performance today is actually more of a feather in Arteta's cap because he's shown his side can go toe to toe with the best in the league. He beat big teams in the FA Cup run but I don't actually think any of those performances were better than what we saw today from Arsenal, even though they won in those games.
 
They went down to 10 against city so obviously they lost

But yeah, arsenal appear to have actually become good
 
cyberman said:
They were on top, this meltdown is as random as a Lukaku interview
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I wish it was random. But even though the penalty and sending off were soft, we needlessly gave the referee decisions to make. Why pull an opponents shirt in the box? Why scuff up the penalty spot?

Matin Keown then blamed it on youth, but it wasn't Saka or Martinelli losing their heads.
 
Daydreamer said:
I wish it was random. But even though the penalty and sending off were soft, we needlessly gave the referee decisions to make. Why pull an opponents shirt in the box? Why scuff up the penalty spot?

Matin Keown then blamed it on youth, but it wasn't Saka or Martinelli losing their heads.
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It’s a real shame for you, City randomly have these games when the ball doesn’t stick up top due to having no striker and are contained with a good, defensive performance. Now the pressure is on the NLD where not winning could see you falling to 7th or 8th with a hill to climb.
 
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