Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

I'll be honest, last summer when Conte left Inter I watched with besumement as Manchester United and Arsenal didn't offer him their daughters in tribute or whatever the feck else he demanded to take over either of those clubs, but if you told me that by January 2021 one of those clubs wouldn't look like complete lunatic clowns for not doing that and sticking with their guy, i would have bet my house on United/Ole being the ones coming good

This is both surprising to me and also a bit infuriating because it shows i don't know better than the people in charge at Arsenal, and that's not something I, a normal person who follows the sport, can easily accept
 
Played well today despite the loss. Happy to see the improvement in game play. The young players and new recruits are playing well.
 
Arsenal under Arteta have had spells where they looked very good, before reverting to the mean and playing diabolically. It was just one month ago that they lost two in row to terribly performing Man Utd and Everton sides. So I'm not going to proclaim that they've turned the corner just yet.
 
They’re good. Even at old Trafford there were bits in that game where they looked like a top side but they clearly still have a step to take mentally. They basically beat themselves at old Trafford and today by harnessing their inner Arsenal.

I’m just baffled as to how they’ve gone from 8th and looking like pure shite to this very progressive, fluid and high pressing footballing team. There didn’t seem to be a middle ground. Their team seems quite balanced too. Think they’ll make top four above spurs and United who despite having games in hand still play football that make your eyes bleed and that isn’t sustainable.
 
I think people are seriously underestimating how physically shot city were. You could visibly see how one paced they were - which was perfect for the Arsenal game plan of sitting back and transitioning very quickly through their young lads. Pep said the same after the game. Arsenal really threw 3 points away - it was there for them.
 
Mickeza said:
I think people are seriously underestimating how physically shot city were. You could visibly see how one paced they were - which was perfect for the Arsenal game plan of sitting back and transitioning very quickly through their young lads. Pep said the same after the game. Arsenal really threw 3 points away - it was there for them.
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I didn’t actually realise Arsenal got to sit out the Boxing Day fixtures. Explains a lot.
 
Arsenal are moving in the right direction. Last few seasons were crap but they look to have a good base to build upon this season. They're not going to challenge for the league but I expect them to be back among top 4 challengers pretty soon in comparison to the 8th place spots they have been getting recently.
 
Mickeza said:
I think people are seriously underestimating how physically shot city were. You could visibly see how one paced they were - which was perfect for the Arsenal game plan of sitting back and transitioning very quickly through their young lads. Pep said the same after the game. Arsenal really threw 3 points away - it was there for them.
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It was going to be an obvious handicap for City before the game. I predicted an easy win for Arsenal, which it should have been.

This win for City has to go down as one of the best results under Pep and probably seals the title.
 
Josh 76 said:
It was going to be an obvious handicap for City before the game. I predicted an easy win for Arsenal, which it should have been.

This win for City has to go down as one of the best results under Pep and probably seals the title.
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They played Sunday 19th, Sunday 26th, Wednesday 29th, & Saturday 1st, it's not like they have had to play every 2 or 3 days for a few weeks. They are well versed to playing midweek games, have the biggest & best squad in the country. They play Swindon next Friday & Chelsea 8 days later.
 
Arsenal lost 4 of their last 9 league games.......but apparently in red hot form and going places. The delusion around then is insane. BT earlier was total gold.
 
Flexdegea said:
Arsenal lost 4 of their last 9 league games.......but apparently in red hot form and going places. The delusion around then is insane. BT earlier was total gold.
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They beat might Norwich and Leeds, while other competitors had games postponed due to Covid. Put some respect on their name.
 
Josh 76 said:
It was going to be an obvious handicap for City before the game. I predicted an easy win for Arsenal, which it should have been.

This win for City has to go down as one of the best results under Pep and probably seals the title.
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its Arsenal mate calm down
 
GoonerBear said:
They played Sunday 19th, Sunday 26th, Wednesday 29th, & Saturday 1st, it's not like they have had to play every 2 or 3 days for a few weeks. They are well versed to playing midweek games, have the biggest & best squad in the country. They play Swindon next Friday & Chelsea 8 days later.
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Agreed, got to feel sorry for poor citeh with their paper-thin squad.

Arse looking decent, bound to get inconsistencies with such a young side, but even that’s a positive (unless you’re a muppet who thinks your team must win every game).

Enjoy the ride
 
I made a post before over here disparaging arteta and saying bow ole is miles above him, but now with ole gone and their recent success ? I have to concede, I ain't too sure anymore, I watched them in the past few games and they really seem to be building toward something over there and have actually found some consistency a big downside of them before .

But it's just so hard to tell with these lot as they've had purple patches previously and you just get the underlying feeling that they're a hammering or a bad run of results away from the typical total meltdown and chaos they've become famous for.

Have they finally turned a corner or is it just another false start? I genuinely can't tell
 
Red the Bear said:
I made a post before over here disparaging arteta and saying bow ole is miles above him, but now with ole gone and their recent success ? I have to concede, I ain't too sure anymore, I watched them in the past few games and they really seem to be building toward something over there and have actually found some consistency a big downside of them before .

But it's just so hard to tell with these lot as they've had purple patches previously and you just get the underlying feeling that they're a hammering or a bad run of results away from the typical total meltdown and chaos they've become famous for.

Have they finally turned a corner or is it just another false start? I genuinely can't tell
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TBF they had a week off while City had a tough mid-week game. I think the freshness in Arsenal was very evident after the opening 20-30 minutes. Side story: This is the issue i have with calling games off, a game is prosposed because one team has a COVID outbreak but the other has time to rest up during a normaly busy period which gives them the advantage for the following game.

I think it really is the same old Arsenal. I've lost count of the times they have spells where they beat poor teams then play a top side and give a good account but still lose. Consistancy is their issue and whenever they play a top half team they tend to struggle
 
OneUnited24 said:
TBF they had a week off while City had a tough mid-week game. I think the freshness in Arsenal was very evident after the opening 20-30 minutes. Side story: This is the issue i have with calling games off, a game is prosposed because one team has a COVID outbreak but the other has time to rest up during a normaly busy period which gives them the advantage for the following game.

I think it really is the same old Arsenal. I've lost count of the times they have spells where they beat poor teams then play a top side and give a good account but still lose. Consistancy is their issue and whenever they play a top half team they tend to struggle
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But even then its city we are talking about(with the best squad depth out there so playing 2 games a weeks shuld pose no problem), they managed to outplay them in the first half and were comfortably the better team till the Gabriel send off

Again as you've said its just so hard to tell but they've actually have a very consistent record beating the fodder teams this season so the jury's still up

The upcoming spurs match and the semi final with the pool could make it much more clearer to what's going on
 
Red the Bear said:
But even then its city we are talking about(with the best squad depth out there so playing 2 games a weeks shuld pose no problem), they managed to outplay them in the first half and were comfortably the better team till the Gabriel send off
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Good point but i believe they only made 3 or 4 changes for this game, most of which in their front line. The rest played on Thursday night and were expected to travel for a Sat lunchtime kick off.

I'm sorry but I dont care who you are but having to play two games in the space of about 36 hours is a joke.
 
Stobzilla said:
Almost as if you need to weed out high earners who have become too comfortable and be given a bit of time to implement a style of play?

Who knew.
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Hence my thread in the utd forum hoping ragnick gives some of the kids a chance.
 
giorno said:
I'll be honest, last summer when Conte left Inter I watched with besumement as Manchester United and Arsenal didn't offer him their daughters in tribute or whatever the feck else he demanded to take over either of those clubs, but if you told me that by January 2021 one of those clubs wouldn't look like complete lunatic clowns for not doing that and sticking with their guy, i would have bet my house on United/Ole being the ones coming good

This is both surprising to me and also a bit infuriating because it shows i don't know better than the people in charge at Arsenal, and that's not something I, a normal person who follows the sport, can easily accept
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Conte wouldn't fit in here because he's successful.

This was a genuine argument Gary Neville made. On television.
 
Tyrion said:
Conte wouldn't fit in here because he's successful.

This was a genuine argument Gary Neville made. On television.
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That is nice. He had been appointed as the Special Advisor to the office of Director of Football of Manchester United. At least, he has United DNA pouring out of every sweat glands of his.
 
Nish115 said:
Probably my last post today, but care to explain? Bernardo tries to go over Xhakas leg but there's barely any contact there, and then Xhaka has a handful of his shirt for about a second which on its own wouldn't have brought him down at all.

Like I said, neither would be given as fouls, but because he's on the way down already the shirt pull looks worse. And, again, I can see why it's given as a pen because of both combined so not arguing that.
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If a player chops back and beats his man clean and that man throws out a leg to trip him it's a foul/penalty. I thought the shirt pull was incidental and Bernardo was diving by then.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Good point but i believe they only made 3 or 4 changes for this game, most of which in their front line. The rest played on Thursday night and were expected to travel for a Sat lunchtime kick off.

I'm sorry but I dont care who you are but having to play two games in the space of about 36 hours is a joke.
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They played Wed night, not Thursday. They play midweek games all the time, not sure why this 1 is deemed as special?
 
GoonerBear said:
They played Wed night, not Thursday. They play midweek games all the time, not sure why this 1 is deemed as special?
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There seems to be some new invented fuss about this.
 
GoonerBear said:
They played Wed night, not Thursday. They play midweek games all the time, not sure why this 1 is deemed as special?
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My bad. Regardless it’s a brutal time of year with non stop games that any rest bite is likely to be an advantage.

I’ve never seen arsenal play with that intensity or drive this season. You were good I’m not disputing that but I can’t help and think it was a rested team vs one that was flagging. Guess we’ll see how arsenal fair in other games this season. Who knows maybe you have turned a corner And these performances will be the norm
 
OneUnited24 said:
My bad. Regardless it’s a brutal time of year with non stop games that any rest bite is likely to be an advantage.

I’ve never seen arsenal play with that intensity or drive this season. You were good I’m not disputing that but I can’t help and think it was a rested team vs one that was flagging. Guess we’ll see how arsenal fair in other games this season. Who knows maybe you have turned a corner And these performances will be the norm
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Like I said in my earlier post, they played 19th, 26th, 29th & 1st. Next game is vs Swindon on the 7th then vs Chelsea on the 15th. So that will be 1 midweek game in nearly 4 weeks by then. This is probably the time of the season they'll have played the LEAST midweek games.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
:lol: Amazing.

I think my favourite redcafe phenomenon is fans of other clubs creating a profile to sign up for a website dedicated to Manchester United, then telling United fans we’re obsessed about their club!
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Sonny, your point would hold more water if you didn't spend more time in the Arteta thread than you do breathing. Let it go, it is honestly embarrassing x
 
GoonerBear said:
Like I said in my earlier post, they played 19th, 26th, 29th & 1st. Next game is vs Swindon on the 7th then vs Chelsea on the 15th. So that will be 1 midweek game in nearly 4 weeks by then. This is probably the time of the season they'll have played the LEAST midweek games.
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Have you ever seen arsenal play that well this season? When was the last time you saw this type of performance vs a top team? What do you think was the reason?

I myself struggle to think of anything in recent years. Either the penny has finally dropped and you’ll put in similar performances now until the end of the season or you had a few days extra of rest and it showed. I know what my monies on.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Have you ever seen arsenal play that well this season? When was the last time you saw this type of performance vs a top team? What do you think was the reason?

I myself struggle to think of anything in recent years. Either the penny has finally dropped and you’ll put in similar performances now until the end of the season or you had a few days extra of rest and it showed. I know what my monies on.
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To be fair, in terms of home games against the big teams, we had only played Chelsea & Spurs. Chelsea was right at the beginning of the season when we had injuries and hadn't really introduced any of the new signings but we were poor, & we played really well vs Spurs, similar to yesterday for the first hour or so & were 3-0 up.

Only other top half team weve played at home is West Ham & that was a good performance as well.
 
Arsenal played like Man City in the first half and like Arsenal in the second half.
 
In the last 2 summers, Arsenal have spent more than us net, if we create a table of net transfer spend since Arteta came in, we've spent 36m more than them. So, I find it hysterical that people who were going on about our transfer spend are defending Arteta here. And there's a good chance, end of Jan, our net transfer spend since Arteta came in would be less than that of Arsenal.

He's doing a good job this season, but back to back 8th place finishes would end up with the manager getting sacked in any of the top 6 or top 7 (if you want to include Leicester) clubs. And the amount of defence he gets from the pundits for the smallest of things is a bit OTT.

Mind, I think he showed spine in dropping Auba and signing young players, and it does look like players are buying into his methods finally. But these things at any other club are barely worthy of a footnote, where the articles are based on the position in the table
 
anant said:
In the last 2 summers, Arsenal have spent more than us net, if we create a table of net transfer spend since Arteta came in, we've spent 36m more than them. So, I find it hysterical that people who were going on about our transfer spend are defending Arteta here. And there's a good chance, end of Jan, our net transfer spend since Arteta came in would be less than that of Arsenal.

He's doing a good job this season, but back to back 8th place finishes would end up with the manager getting sacked in any of the top 6 or top 7 (if you want to include Leicester) clubs. And the amount of defence he gets from the pundits for the smallest of things is a bit OTT.

Mind, I think he showed spine in dropping Auba and signing young players, and it does look like players are buying into his methods finally. But these things at any other club are barely worthy of a footnote, where the articles are based on the position in the table
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Net spend is such an irrelevant way of showing progress. The only thing it shows is the commitment of the owners and the financial power a club has.

Do your net spend figures consider wages? Considering the whole point of our transfer business this season was spend relatively big on fees, but not too big on wages? Considering you'll look at Varane as a cheaper signing than White despite the fact that he actually costs a decent amount more over his contract length?

And to add to that, what does net spend really tell you about if a team is strengthening or not? Obviously it shows the big picture compared to the overall league, but comparing to United is irrelevant. United spent £270m since Arteta came in, Arsenal spent £230m. United wages will also have been probably close to double ours in that time on those players too. Yes, your net spend might be lower, but that's because you've had more assets to sell than we have. That has nothing really to do with your current team though, which you have based off money, strengthened more than we have.
 
Nish115 said:
Net spend is such an irrelevant way of showing progress. The only thing it shows is the commitment of the owners and the financial power a club has.

Do your net spend figures consider wages? Considering the whole point of our transfer business this season was spend relatively big on fees, but not too big on wages? Considering you'll look at Varane as a cheaper signing than White despite the fact that he actually costs a decent amount more over his contract length?

And to add to that, what does net spend really tell you about if a team is strengthening or not? Obviously it shows the big picture compared to the overall league, but comparing to United is irrelevant. United spent £270m since Arteta came in, Arsenal spent £230m. United wages will also have been probably close to double ours in that time on those players too. Yes, your net spend might be lower, but that's because you've had more assets to sell than we have. That has nothing really to do with your current team though, which you have based off money, strengthened more than we have.
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Even gross spend figures are similar, liek you pointed out, and I do get that wages are a better indicator, however, the same argument that pundits/journos used against Utd/have been using against Utd for the past 5-6 years does not seem to apply to Arteta. Hell, even in case of Emery, the spend figures were brought up.

Irrespective, do you really think Arsenal finishing 8th twice in the league despite being part of big 6 (big 7 if you want to include Leicester) would have been acceptable at any club? He's made progress this season, brought better than in previous seasons, but you shouldn't be where you currently are no matter what
 
anant said:
Even gross spend figures are similar, liek you pointed out, and I do get that wages are a better indicator, however, the same argument that pundits/journos used against Utd/have been using against Utd for the past 5-6 years does not seem to apply to Arteta. Hell, even in case of Emery, the spend figures were brought up.

Irrespective, do you really think Arsenal finishing 8th twice in the league despite being part of big 6 (big 7 if you want to include Leicester) would have been acceptable at any club? He's made progress this season, brought better than in previous seasons, but you shouldn't be where you currently are no matter what
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No I don't but I think that instead of people turning this into a negative why don't they see it as a positive. The board stuck with Arteta despite that, because they fully believed he'd turn it around and were happy to take some short term pain for longer term gains.

If this was Chelsea or United, yes they'd have sacked that manager, but look where that's got United. They've been in the CL yes but they've done absolutely nothing in it, and now they're facing another potential rebuild.

And also like i've said many times, Arteta finishing 8th in his first season wasn't really down to him. He took over halfway into the season where we were 11th. If you look at the table from when he was in charge that season he was 6th, and won an FA cup. His first season was a success. Last season was disappointing, but again it was largely due to the form from September to December. Then Arteta adapted, dropped Willian, played a number 10 and changed formations, and ever since we've been on the rise.

I just find it so strange that United fans are the ones saying this. Did you guys not see what happened after SAF left? The exact same thing as happened to us, except you sacked Moyes and we stuck with Arteta to see what would happen. It takes A LOT to rebuild a club when 1 man has been almost the dictator of that club for 20 years. The whole structure of that club changes from top to bottom. It doesn't just happen overnight..
 
Nish115 said:
No I don't but I think that instead of people turning this into a negative why don't they see it as a positive. The board stuck with Arteta despite that, because they fully believed he'd turn it around and were happy to take some short term pain for longer term gains.

If this was Chelsea or United, yes they'd have sacked that manager, but look where that's got United. They've been in the CL yes but they've done absolutely nothing in it, and now they're facing another potential rebuild.

And also like i've said many times, Arteta finishing 8th in his first season wasn't really down to him. He took over halfway into the season where we were 11th. If you look at the table from when he was in charge that season he was 6th, and won an FA cup. His first season was a success. Last season was disappointing, but again it was largely due to the form from September to December. Then Arteta adapted, dropped Willian, played a number 10 and changed formations, and ever since we've been on the rise.

I just find it so strange that United fans are the ones saying this. Did you guys not see what happened after SAF left? The exact same thing as happened to us, except you sacked Moyes and we stuck with Arteta to see what would happen. It takes A LOT to rebuild a club when 1 man has been almost the dictator of that club for 20 years. The whole structure of that club changes from top to bottom. It doesn't just happen overnight..
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Oh, I'm all in for giving managers time. But you also need to realize the long term targets need to come along with short term goals as well. I supported Ole till the end, but had he finished outside top 4 in either of the 2 seasons, I'd have asked for him to be sacked. In your case as well, I can get you not finishing in CL places, but 8th! Surely, you're better than WHU, Leicester; and Leicester, Wolves
 
anant said:
Oh, I'm all in for giving managers time. But you also need to realize the long term targets need to come along with short term goals as well. I supported Ole till the end, but had he finished outside top 4 in either of the 2 seasons, I'd have asked for him to be sacked. In your case as well, I can get you not finishing in CL places, but 8th! Surely, you're better than WHU, Leicester; and Leicester, Wolves
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Yh but what is short term?

Before this season Arteta was in charge for 1 and a half years. In his first year, he did well and won a trophy and got results which averaged to 6th which is where we were.

And again 2nd season yep i'm disappointed with the overall result, but this was hugely down to the first few months of the season. Arteta then adapted and for the majority of last season we were actually a good side. Unfortunately the first chunk though set us back overall.

If Arteta wasn't learning his lessons, and kept making the same mistakes i'd be on his back. But, he isn't. He learnt 5atb didn't work. He learnt Willian needed to go. He learnt signing older players wasn't working. He saw faults in Aubas behaviour and attitude on the pitch and benched him.

I have always questioned his substitutions also but he's improving there too. He's a new manager, and it'll be a learning curve. But, as long as I see progress then i'm happy. And i'm seeing it.

Now if we finish below the top 6 this season, i'll be more angry and questions will be raised, but lets see what happens.

But appreciate talking to you, this is my last post today but good chat!
 
anant said:
In the last 2 summers, Arsenal have spent more than us net, if we create a table of net transfer spend since Arteta came in, we've spent 36m more than them. So, I find it hysterical that people who were going on about our transfer spend are defending Arteta here. And there's a good chance, end of Jan, our net transfer spend since Arteta came in would be less than that of Arsenal.

He's doing a good job this season, but back to back 8th place finishes would end up with the manager getting sacked in any of the top 6 or top 7 (if you want to include Leicester) clubs. And the amount of defence he gets from the pundits for the smallest of things is a bit OTT.

Mind, I think he showed spine in dropping Auba and signing young players, and it does look like players are buying into his methods finally. But these things at any other club are barely worthy of a footnote, where the articles are based on the position in the table
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True but one of Arsenal's core values has always been to stand by the manager. I wanted Mikel out too amd still am slightly on the fence, but have to respect our philosophy.
 
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