Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

I am happy to give Arteta more time to implement his idea. EPL is a tough league with so many world class managers now. A top 6 finish this season is a very good achievement for this squad with so many young players.
What idea?
He's finished 8th twice. Are you really confident of a top 6 finish?

And now imagine if someone had told you that a top 6 finish would be a good achievment, given the low spending and young squad, when Wenger was still manager.
You don't even realize how fateful it is, how the whole Arteta mirage has lowered your expectations and self-regard.
 
I keep seeing it mentioned that they're unbeaten for a while now so I looked at their results and who they've played. Their unbeaten run has come against:

Norwich 1-0
Burnley 1-0
Wimbledon 3-0
Spurs 3-1
Brighton 0-0
Palace 2-2
Villa 3-1
Leeds 2-0
Leicester 2-0
Watford 1-0

You can only beat what's in front of you but that's not a bad set of fixtures. They play us next at Anfield so maybe that'll be a better indicator in terms of how they're actually doing.
United lost to Villa and Leicester.

I don't see the game against Liverpool away as an indicator, same with City. I expect us to get thumped given the huge gap in quality at the moment. The important thing is be consistent as we have against the weaker teams and win against the teams that are challenging for top 6 (e.g., Leicester, Tottenham).
 
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United lost to Villa and Leicester.

I don't see the game against Liverpool away as an indicator, same with City. I expect us to get thumped given the huge gap in quality at the moment. The important thing is be consistent as we have against the weaker teams and win against the teams that are challenging for top 6 (e.g., Leicester, Tottenham).
Yeah but both Leicester and Villa have had poor seasons and look below par currently.

I mean if Brighton can roll up and outplay us then you'll have a shot as well. I think you're probably right about the result but yeah fair point overall. As long as you're seeing progression then that's the main thing. Right now fourth looks like it's wide open.
 
Look comparing Arteta to OGS is a waste of time - Arteta will still be manager in 3 months time, OGS won’t be.
What point do you think you're proving here? Ole has been in charge 1 year longer.
there will be stumbles in the road but at least we fans believe in it - tell me, Mancs what do you believe in?
This is pretty funny/ironic (if not downright wrong) given that at the start of the season, a sizeable chunk of the Arsenal fanbase wanted Arteta gone.

If anything, the one thing United supporters almost unanimously believe in is the need to get rid of Ole and bring in a modern and progressive manager.
 
Look comparing Arteta to OGS is a waste of time - Arteta will still be manager in 3 months time, OGS won’t be. But funny how you Mancs badmouth us now you are forced to see us rivals given your less than impressive form and table position.
With your crop of talented players, you should do better , the reason you don’t is because they don’t believe in OGS

As for Arsenal, we are building back better around a young team policy - there will be stumbles in the road but at least we fans believe in it - tell me, Mancs what do you believe in?

I don't really see you as rivals. I think Spurs with Conte have a better chance of beating us to top 4.

I just don't think Arteta is any different from Lampard or Ole. It's just that Ole does a bad Fergie impression while Arteta does a bad impression of Pep.
 
Giving him more time won't change anything. He's in his third season. How it is now is how it is going to be. A few good wins and the odd great game will interchange with a few disappointing draws or defeats. His Arsenal are sometimes quite good, often poor, but never consistently great. And that's not what I think, that's the reality of what's been happening.
Why would he turn into a better manager than he has shown to be, if he's given more time? He won't. This is it.

And what criteria would a club use to upgrade on him... what a bizarre question when we're talking about Arteta. How about hiring someone with a good record, instead of someone with no record at all?
Whichever way you look at it, Arteta is easily and by far a better manager than Ole despite Ole being in the job a full 12 months longer and having spent a lot more. The only thing saving Ole is that he is a United legend, but as a manager he is totally clueless. Results don't lie.
 
I don't really see you as rivals. I think Spurs with Conte have a better chance of beating us to top 4.

I just don't think Arteta is any different from Lampard or Ole. It's just that Ole does a bad Fergie impression while Arteta does a bad impression of Pep.
That's more of an emotional outburst rather than a rational argument. The facts don't support you at all.
 
Their goal difference is zero, and West Ham have scored 10 more goals than them. You made me follow this thread and laugh at you at end of the season when Arsenal finish around 8th position.
Well I am glad you didn't go into hiding. Arteta has and currently doing a good job, despite the talent at his disposals. He already won a fa cup and has been quietly beneath the surface developing an identity with this Arsenal side that not many can understand or see. This is where i step in, to open people eyes towards what he is building, which is similiar to what he learned from guardiola and Pochettino, which is a high-energy possession football defined by perfect positional play. Arteta is still a young manager, but he learned from the best which was why I understood him more than some poster on here.
 
Well I am glad you didn't go into hiding. Arteta has and currently doing a good job, despite the talent at his disposals. He already won a fa cup and has been quietly beneath the surface developing an identity with this Arsenal side that not many can understand or see. This is where i step in, to open people eyes towards what he is building, which is similiar to what he learned from guardiola and Pochettino, which is a high-energy possession football defined by perfect positional play. Arteta is still a young manager, but he learned from the best which was why I understood him more than some poster on here.
You seem to have clear convictions in your beliefs which is laudable but care to predict what future holds for Arsenal under Arteta what would be their final position this season .
 
You seem to have clear convictions in your beliefs which is laudable but care to predict what future holds for Arsenal under Arteta what would be their final position this season .
I believe Arteta can bring them stability in terms of europa league football. Unless, they get significant backing, I can't see them breaking into the top four, unless one of the big four has a bad season. With the squad they have they should be targeting europa league this season, but it will be difficult with Conte at Spurs, Moyes doing well at West Ham, Rodgers at leceister and the amazing squad we have at United. Arteta can see this season a success if they finish in a europa league spot.
 
Look comparing Arteta to OGS is a waste of time - Arteta will still be manager in 3 months time, OGS won’t be. But funny how you Mancs badmouth us now you are forced to see us rivals given your less than impressive form and table position.
With your crop of talented players, you should do better , the reason you don’t is because they don’t believe in OGS

As for Arsenal, we are building back better around a young team policy - there will be stumbles in the road but at least we fans believe in it - tell me, Mancs what do you believe in?

I believe Arsenal won't be challenging for league title anytime soon.

He will be competing for 5-6th position and will be lauded as savior while ManUtd fans want to sack the manager(rightly so) who finished in CL places for 2 consecutive seasons.

Different standards and expectations at different clubs.
 
Whichever way you look at it, Arteta is easily and by far a better manager than Ole despite Ole being in the job a full 12 months longer and having spent a lot more. The only thing saving Ole is that he is a United legend, but as a manager he is totally clueless. Results don't lie.
The way I look at it, the so called better manager finished 8th two times in the row, while the other one third and second.

Keep the good work ! Hope Arteta stay much longer then Ole.
I want Ole gone. I just hope you keep Arteta forever : this 8th spot in the league seems nice and cosy to you. But I know you have big ambitions : finish 6th in the league, that would be am amazing achievement !
 
Look comparing Arteta to OGS is a waste of time - Arteta will still be manager in 3 months time, OGS won’t be. But funny how you Mancs badmouth us now you are forced to see us rivals given your less than impressive form and table position.
With your crop of talented players, you should do better , the reason you don’t is because they don’t believe in OGS

As for Arsenal, we are building back better around a young team policy - there will be stumbles in the road but at least we fans believe in it - tell me, Mancs what do you believe in?
Stealing slogans for Arsenal now? :lol:
 
United lost to Villa and Leicester.

I don't see the game against Liverpool away as an indicator, same with City. I expect us to get thumped given the huge gap in quality at the moment. The important thing is be consistent as we have against the weaker teams and win against the teams that are challenging for top 6 (e.g., Leicester, Tottenham).
This. You can only beat what is infront of you. Fergie never won the league by beating big teams, we won by smashing these weaker teams. Bet you if someone tries to calculate Top 6 table in Fergie era he wont be nowhere at the top. United now is getting smashed by weaker and stronger teams. They come to us knowing they can get points off us. This never happened in Fergie era. Teams already felt they lost the game subsconciously before facing us (or what you may call as fear factor)
 
This. You can only beat what is infront of you. Fergie never won the league by beating big teams, we won by smashing these weaker teams. Bet you if someone tries to calculate Top 6 table in Fergie era he wont be nowhere at the top. United now is getting smashed by weaker and stronger teams. They come to us knowing they can get points off us. This never happened in Fergie era. Teams already felt they lost the game subsconciously before facing us (or what you may call as fear factor)

There was no top 6 during Fergie era and no we didn't win by smashing just weaker teams. We did well against strong teams too.
 
There was no top 6 during Fergie era and no we didn't win by smashing just weaker teams. We did well against strong teams too.
Sorry had to disagree. I remember that every game to the Bridge and Anfield, Emptihad esp in his later years is an automatic loss for us or a smash and grab draw/win.
 
Sorry had to disagree. I remember that every game to the Bridge and Anfield, Emptihad esp in his later years is an automatic loss for us or a smash and grab draw/win.
This is so wrong. In SAF's final season we won away at Chelsea, Liverpool and City. Can't be bothered to look further because your point is immediately rendered null and void at the first hurdle.
 
Sorry had to disagree. I remember that every game to the Bridge and Anfield, Emptihad esp in his later years is an automatic loss for us or a smash and grab draw/win.

Didn't we play them at home?

2007-08
Chelsea - Won 1, lost 1
Arsenal - Won 1, Drew - 1
Liverpool - Won 2

4 wins - 1 loss - 1 draw

2008-09
Liverpool - Lost 2
Chelsea - Won 1, Drew - 1
Arsenal - Drew 1, lost 1. Arsenal at home, we just needed a point to confirm championship.

2009-10
Chelsea - Lost 2
Arsenal - Won 2
Spurs - Won 2
City - Won 2
Liverpool - Won 1, lost 1

2010-11
Chelsea - Won 1, lost 1
City - Won 1, Drew 1
Arsenal - Won 1, lost 1
Spurs - Won 1, drew 1
Liverpool - Won 1, lost 1

2011-12
City - Lost 2
Arsenal - Won 2
Spurs - Won 2
Chelsea - Won 1, Drew - 1
Liverpool - Won 1, drew -1

2012-13
City - Won 1, lost 1
Chelsea - Won 1, lost 1
Arsenal - Won 1, drew 1
Spurs - lost 1, drew 1
Liverpool - Won 2

We had good record against strong teams and weak teams, that's why we won leagues or so close to winning all seasons.
 
This is so wrong. In SAF's final season we won away at Chelsea, Liverpool and City. Can't be bothered to look further because your point is immediately rendered null and void at the first hurdle.

Exactly. This rewriting of history is hilarious. He even smashed strong teams.
 
Whichever way you look at it, Arteta is easily and by far a better manager than Ole despite Ole being in the job a full 12 months longer and having spent a lot more. The only thing saving Ole is that he is a United legend, but as a manager he is totally clueless. Results don't lie.

Arteta's 2 full season, he has spent 226 million in that time. Only Chelsea and City have spent more as per transfermarkt.

Arteta is doing good job because expectations on him was very low.
 
Exactly. This rewriting of history is hilarious. He even smashed strong teams.
His point was a bit over the top but he is right about the small teams. Remember under Moyes and LVG most teams where winning at OT for the first time in years. SAF bullied the bottom 10
 
His point was a bit over the top but he is right about the small teams. Remember under Moyes and LVG most teams where winning at OT for the first time in years. SAF bullied the bottom 10

We won against all teams, so his point is not right especially when he is making it look like we only won league because of beating shit teams.
 
United lost to Villa and Leicester.

I don't see the game against Liverpool away as an indicator, same with City. I expect us to get thumped given the huge gap in quality at the moment. The important thing is be consistent as we have against the weaker teams and win against the teams that are challenging for top 6 (e.g., Leicester, Tottenham).

Tottenham were at an all time low when you played them. They even managed to lose to us. Your one and only creditable result in that run was beating Leicester, who kicked your arse for the vast majority of that game.
 
Tottenham were at an all time low when you played them. They even managed to lose to us. Your one and only creditable result in that run was beating Leicester, who kicked your arse for the vast majority of that game.

They didn’t, the first half Arsenal were definitely the better side and deserved their lead. Second half they went very pragmatic and decided to defend for dear life, a risky strategy but it paid off.

They’re not really a side capable of dominating for the full 90, it’s still a young side with a lot of their key players being young, so they naturally ebb and flow through the game. Aubameyang doesn’t help in this regard either. It’s something they’re going to have to improve on going forward.
 
Arteta is a better manager than Ole, but still arguably not very good either. Shows the standards the 2 clubs have dropped to.
 
They didn’t, the first half Arsenal were definitely the better side and deserved their lead. Second half they went very pragmatic and decided to defend for dear life, a risky strategy but it paid off.

They’re not really a side capable of dominating for the full 90, it’s still a young side with a lot of their key players being young, so they naturally ebb and flow through the game. Aubameyang doesn’t help in this regard either. It’s something they’re going to have to improve on going forward.

The “we’re a young side” excuse grinds my gears. As though they deserve extra points for picking younger players. Top squads have a blend of youth and expertise and with Arsenal’s spending they should have a top squad.

Fairly sure United, under Ole, had one of the youngest (maybe the youngest?) average age in the league. And here we are…
 
Look comparing Arteta to OGS is a waste of time - Arteta will still be manager in 3 months time, OGS won’t be. But funny how you Mancs badmouth us now you are forced to see us rivals given your less than impressive form and table position.
With your crop of talented players, you should do better , the reason you don’t is because they don’t believe in OGS

As for Arsenal, we are building back better around a young team policy - there will be stumbles in the road but at least we fans believe in it - tell me, Mancs what do you believe in?
Your board and Mikel have played a blinder here.

Now the "he inherited a mess" excuse is voided (given he's either signed it extended most if not all of your squad) Arteta/the board has suddenly decided on a 'youth project' to shield him from critism for a good 2/3 season's.
 
The “we’re a young side” excuse grinds my gears. As though they deserve extra points for picking younger players. Top squads have a blend of youth and expertise and with Arsenal’s spending they should have a top squad.

Fairly sure United, under Ole, had one of the youngest (maybe the youngest?) average age in the league. And here we are…

You're reading something that isn't there, no one is saying they deserve extra points, just that when you have a bunch of new and young players you're not always going to dominate over the entirety of the game. I mean you're aware of this

That’s part of the frustration though. We do have a young squad so can expect inconsistency but of the players that are at an age where they should be reliable, only Luke Shaw seems to be able to avoid going from 8/10 to 4/10 in the space of a few days. That’s bound to wind people up and wonder what the feck is wrong with this team.

I don't get what the bolded has to do with anything?

Your board and Mikel have played a blinder here.

Now the "he inherited a mess" excuse is voided (given he's either signed it extended most if not all of your squad) Arteta/the board has suddenly decided on a 'youth project' to shield him from critism for a good 2/3 season's.

He signed a bunch of young players this summer after spending big and they're doing well. He inherited a poor squad and he's overhauled it, and this season is where he'll be judged.
 
They didn’t, the first half Arsenal were definitely the better side and deserved their lead. Second half they went very pragmatic and decided to defend for dear life, a risky strategy but it paid off.
Ramsdale made a couple of crazy saves in the first half as well, Leicester definitely came very close to scoring and would have scored if not for the keeper pulling off those saves.
 
Ramsdale made a couple of crazy saves in the first half as well, Leicester definitely came very close to scoring and would have scored if not for the keeper pulling off those saves.

That's why they bought him right? It's like people talking about Ronaldo's goals and United, you buy a striker to score goals and a keeper to stop goals.
On the balance of things Arsenal were the better side in the first half.
 
That's why they bought him right? It's like people talking about Ronaldo's goals and United, you buy a striker to score goals and a keeper to stop goals.
On the balance of things Arsenal were the better side in the first half.

When we fail to create enough chances for Ronaldo then it’s a problem. We’re obviously not playing well as a team. Likewise teams who fail to stop the opposition creating good chances.
 
That's why they bought him right? It's like people talking about Ronaldo's goals and United, you buy a striker to score goals and a keeper to stop goals.
On the balance of things Arsenal were the better side in the first half.
Yeah but the point is about their defense getting opened up with ease. There's always a lot of gap between their defense and midfield lines which they exploited. Arsenal did well in attack but were poor at the back.
 
Here we go again, criticising the strategy Arsenal have decided to implement.

It's not to hide or protect the manager, we are a football club, we aren't Arteta FC FFS.

Everyone accepts that we have spent a fair bit money over the latter Wenger years & Emery's reign, & everyone accepts that we've spent it fairly poorly. We've bought players that we've constantly not been able to turn a profit on, on high wages, & even worse we've had to pay a lot of them off, all while performances have dropped. How can you remain self sufficient if that was the result of your strategy?

So, we changed strategy, to sign younger, more hungry players, that can grow & hit their peak together, but not only that, they tend to fit better into a wage structure & will still have value in the market when they leave. We've not reinvented the wheel, lots of clubs do it. Clubs like Leicester get praised for their transfer strategy, yet we are using it as an excuse to hide behind a manager?
 
When we fail to create enough chances for Ronaldo then it’s a problem. We’re obviously not playing well as a team. Likewise teams who fail to stop the opposition creating good chances.
Yeah but the point is about their defense getting opened up with ease. There's always a lot of gap between their defense and midfield lines which they exploited. Arsenal did well in attack but were poor at the back.

It's not ideal to allow the opposition goalscoring opportunities but Leicester away is always a tricky fixture even with their troubles this season. First half Arsenal got their two goals and went on the defensive and secured the clean sheet. It's not something that can be relied upon over a season but Arteta is quite good at edging out close games to claim a narrow victory. I didn't think White and Ramsdale would be worth the money when they were purchased this summer but they've had a good impact, 4 of the back 5 arrived this summer so it's not going to perfect.

I think some of the comments in this thread writing him off early in his tenure stemmed from him getting a much easier ride than Solskjaer, who was treated pretty disrespectfully by the media. But he took over a side in freefall in desperate need of an overhaul, he's spent big this summer and this is the season where he should be judged. The board would have been fully aware of this, and while I'm sure the FA cup win gave him a little credit (I don't think it means much in terms of progress) I think the board expected his first season to be shaky, they've backed him this summer and we're only a few months into his second full season.
 
It's not ideal to allow the opposition goalscoring opportunities but Leicester away is always a tricky fixture even with their troubles this season. First half Arsenal got their two goals and went on the defensive and secured the clean sheet. It's not something that can be relied upon over a season but Arteta is quite good at edging out close games to claim a narrow victory. I didn't think White and Ramsdale would be worth the money when they were purchased this summer but they've had a good impact, 4 of the back 5 arrived this summer so it's not going to perfect.

I think some of the comments in this thread writing him off early in his tenure stemmed from him getting a much easier ride than Solskjaer, who was treated pretty disrespectfully by the media. But he took over a side in freefall in desperate need of an overhaul, he's spent big this summer and this is the season where he should be judged. The board would have been fully aware of this, and while I'm sure the FA cup win gave him a little credit (I don't think it means much in terms of progress) I think the board expected his first season to be shaky, they've backed him this summer and we're only a few months into his second full season.
Yeah, they have a few tricky fixtures lined up. Let's see how they cope up at Anfield next/

On a side note, it genuinely fills me with happiness watching Arsenal fans 'hoping' to finish 6th right now and considering that a success after mocking Wenger and the whole 'top 4 is a trophy' joke. Couldn't have happened to a nicer fanbase.
 
Yeah, they have a few tricky fixtures lined up. Let's see how they cope up at Anfield next/

On a side note, it genuinely fills me with happiness watching Arsenal fans 'hoping' to finish 6th right now and considering that a success after mocking Wenger and the whole 'top 4 is a trophy' joke. Couldn't have happened to a nicer fanbase.

Yeah it'll be tough for them, and it'll be a good sign of where this side is mentally. Confidence is up and they've had a kind fixture list, it'll be interesting to see how they'll manage the next set.

The treatment Wenger got was shocking, him and Ferguson are both iconic to me and are big factors in why I wanted to coach football. Even if supporters were desperate for him to go this was someone who had dedicated himself entirely to the cause, and deserved to be treated with more respect.
 
Yeah but the point is about their defense getting opened up with ease. There's always a lot of gap between their defense and midfield lines which they exploited. Arsenal did well in attack but were poor at the back.

We dominated the early going and then parked the bus when 2 up. I'll take 'poor at the back', yet keeping a clean sheet any day of the week. Ultimately when you go 2 up you can afford to close up shop and limit the quality of chances the opposition have. We've only conceeded 4 in the last 10 games using this strategy. It's not the prettest to watch but 3 points is 3 points.

Liverpool and United games will bring new challenges to us ofcourse. United seem to be particularly leaky at the back this season
 
The treatment Wenger got was shocking

I agree with this and I can tell you the fanbase was very much split on this. I was Wenger In until the end but even I do have to admit Wenger didn't quite move with the times though with both his recruitment and tactics. He bought allot of expensive players in their prime who turned out to be duds
 
We dominated the early going and then parked the bus when 2 up. I'll take 'poor at the back', yet keeping a clean sheet any day of the week. Ultimately when you go 2 up you can afford to close up shop and limit the quality of chances the opposition have. We've only conceeded 4 in the last 10 games using this strategy. It's not the prettest to watch but 3 points is 3 points.
You know life's come a full circle when you start embracing the exact same thing that you mocked clubs like Chelsea for over a decade, while being the beacon of 'The Beautiful Game'. Yes I know that's what you need right now but it is honestly, satisfying to the point that I cannot describe in words!
 
I agree with this and I can tell you the fanbase was very much split on this. I was Wenger In until the end but even I do have to admit Wenger didn't quite move with the times though with both his recruitment and tactics. He bought allot of expensive players in their prime who turned out to be duds

Yeah I shouldn't have implied it was all the fanbase are even the majority, just that perceptions are often set by a few bad actors, especially in football. And I can definitely understand why a lot wanted him gone, I felt he was working under constraints but also a lot of the issues Emery and Arteta inherited did stem from his squad building. I would have been Wenger in but when someone has been such a staple as he has it's hard to say goodbye to them, even if they don't manage the club I support. The Ferguson vs Wenger time was one of my favourite footballing periods, it had everything.