Arteta and Ole can’t be compared. Look at the contrast in money spent for a start.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Arteta and Ole can’t be compared. Look at the contrast in money spent for a start.
You do realise right arsenal have spent some big amount of money in last two seasons? They have spent more than United this season and almost spent same amount last summer.
I feel like you completely ignored my entire post, especially the bolded, so I'm just going to repost my quote again
People keep seeing the name Arsenal and ignoring the massive problems that club and side had. He took over midseason, had he took over from the start then his points ratio would have got them 6th place (they were lower in the table and in freefall when he took over) and he also went and won the FA cup. In his first full season he bought in Partey for big money, but he missed large parts of the season, Gabriel was also bought in for about 20m and he's been a great signing. There was also Mari for peanuts. He was still using a squad that wasn't his and had major issues. This is his second full season, and he's been backed in the transfer market. He's purchased a bunch of young players for big money, ones specifically bought in to play the football he wants. After a horror start (in which there were extenuating circumstances but let's not get into that) he's got his team playing with more confidence, certainly with more tactical confidence. Yes in his first full season he finished 8th, 5 points off 4th. This is his second season and it'll be interesting to see how they do. I honestly don't understand what supporters expected.
About Emery, he did an ok job. He finished 5th which was great, but they were lucky to achieve that position, both by the statistics and the general level of their play. His transfers in his first season were all failures, and in his second season he went and spent 75m on fecking pepe. The wheels came off a few months into his second season, and they were in the bottom half of the table with like 1 win in 11. So I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.
This summer is the first time he's been able to spend. He has spent big this summer (very big for Arsenal) but it still comes to about 220m, Ole has spent 410m, he also inherited a better side.
I don't want to make this a Ole vs Arteta, I'm solely pointing out the disparity in the jobs they took over. For some reason many in this thread seem to think that they both started on the same starting line.
As I said, come back to me in May and we will see. Maybe he'll get top 5, maybe he'll be 8th again.
People are only going to judge him on what they have seen. Till now he has done a poor job and we don't need to wait till may to say that. He may go on to win the title but we are assesing for what he has done so far. It's same for Ole. Right now this season he is doing a poor job and people have a right to comment and judge for that.
Also, no one is expecting arsenal or arteta to challenge for title or even finish in top 4 but they should have been definitely doing better than spending most season between 8th to 14th last season.
Is Arsenal improving under Arteta? I haven't watched them in awhile. After a shaky start to the season they seem to be doing quite well. I wonder what the Arsenal faithful are thinking.
Could be just another false dawn, wouldn't be the first under Arteta.
No top 4 is really going to benefit them this season as it did with Chelsea when they won the league under Conte and Liverpool when they nearly won it under Rodgers. Could be our main challengers for a top 4 finish but would still be a disaster for us to let them finish above us.
I'm still not worried about them. I was one of those defending Arteta here during the summer but the quality of their overall play isn't particularly impressive.
They were outplayed by Brighton and Palace and were lucky to get something out of both games. They were good last week and fairly average against Leicester, who bossed the second half.
I think we'll have a bit of regression to the mean when their kind fixture run ends.
They were outplayed by Brighton and Palace and were lucky to get something out of both games. They were good last week and fairly average against Leicester, who bossed the second half.
I think we'll have a bit of regression to the mean when their kind fixture run ends.
Personally, after being dismissive, sceptical and critical of Arteta's early days, I can now clearly see his work plan, philosophy and direction, and I wouldn't be surprised if Arsenal finish top 4. The team is definitely making discernible progress. They have the youngest team in England, and the 11th youngest in the top 5 leagues in Europe. They are currently on a brilliant run and only Chelsea have more clean sheets overall and have collected more points than them in the last 7 matches, during which only Liverpool are the only other unbeaten team. I can understand why they get all this banter on Cafe which is based purely on football rivalry, but the reality is that Arteta has actually done a great rebuilding job (apart from winning 2 trophies).
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Too early to say how they’re doing. I like to see young teams do well and they do have some decent players but I can’t see them competing in the top 4 race come near the end of the season.
The squad Arteta initially took over finished one point off fourth and reached the Europa final. We've gone backwards under him despite the relatively high transfer outlay. I hope we can be consistent this season and signs have been good in recent games; however, I still don't think he is a generational coach like Nagglesman, Klopp or Wenger and Ferguson were years ago.
You’re not wrong about finishing a point off, but I don’t think it was a genuine reflection of that side. Defensively they were poor, conceding a lot of goals, which is something Arteta has really improved on without having any dosh (this season aside). People differ on the validity of xg, but Arsenal constantly outperformed it that season, and while it doesn’t mean that much in itself, watching that side I was not surprised to see it fall apart the season after, especially with how they crumbled towards the end of the 18-19 season. He did get to the final (he is glorious in that competition to be fair), but then Arteta did win an FA cup and got to the semi final of the Euros.
The second part is the transfer outlay, Arteta has only spent big this current season, before that it was about 60m over a season and a half, which in today’s football is peanuts. He finally had money this season to spend big (and he’s spent very big) but he’s spent it all on young players and atm they’re 3 points off top 4 and looking good, so I don’t think we can use transfer outlay as a factor in the previous seasons, but judge him on this one.
Emery had two summers and spent 200m, and I’d argue that only Tierney (if he gets over his injury woes) is a starter. I know he didn’t have massive agency over transfer dealings, so the board take a lot of blame, but it’s night and day to the talented and youthful signings under Arteta. I think Emery had a hell of a job to do when he took over, but he’s a very experienced coach who has won a lot of trophies, while this was Arteta’s first ever job, so while I’m probably being a little harsh on Unai, comparing the two I honestly think Lego man has done the better job,.
Generational coaches are incredibly rare so you’re almost definitely right, but I’m really impressed by Arteta. He was overly pragmatic to begin with and his football was dull, but in he stopped the goal leakage and you can really see what he’s trying to do on the pitch. With him finally allowed to bring players in this summer, his approach is finally starting to show on the pitch. I honestly think this is the best Arsenal side since Wenger, and they’re going to push for top 4 this season.
Edit: I’m also fully aware that if Arsenal go back to being shite I’m gonna get a lot of flack in this thread and it will be fully warranted
Arsenal fans just need to be patient. Arteta won a big trophy in a much shorter period than any of those managerial greats. He just needs to be given time to build his kind of team. He is clearly making progress.
Can't see them higher than 6th at the end of the season and I'd fancy them probably for 7th if I were putting money on it.
Not really seen a super impressive result from them yet, yes they're on a good run but it isn't all that surprising considering the teams they've faced. Let's see how they do against the Dippers after the international break.
We're getting by with 25 good mins per game. Not sustainable for sure. Hoping it clicks and we control games as opposed to relying a bit on luck and exemplary individual performances.
if Arteta can get top 6 this season I think he is doing a good job. Hopefully we can back to europe next season.
I mean that's not really a fair barometer is it ?
We're 99% going to lose unless something freakish happens (injury, red card etc...) Liverpool's squad is miles better than most European teams.Games like Leicester, Spurs, Villa and West Ham are the important ones this season because wether we want it or not they are our competition for top 6. We need to go back to the basics of steamrolling the lesser sides and getting consistently good results against these other teams. Getting something out of City, Liverpool, United and Chelsea games are only morale boosters for now.
Personally I would put my money on Arteta taking Arsenal back to Europe this season, and I wouldn't be surprised if Arsenal finish in top 4. I'm not saying they will, but if it happens it wouldn't surprise me.
I mean that's not really a fair barometer is it ?
Games like Leicester, Spurs, Villa and West Ham are the important ones this season because wether we want it or not they are our competition for top 6. We need to go back to the basics of steamrolling the lesser sides and getting consistently good results against these other teams. Getting something out of City, Liverpool, United and Chelsea games are only morale boosters for now.
You're Arsenal. In my opinion you should be looking to be competitive in games like the Dipper one. Brighton have done it this season and so have Brentford so it isn't as if they are laying waste to everyone this season like in the first half of their title* winning season.
For me, just beating the teams you mentioned consigns you to 6th, which isn't what you should be happy with. For me, the manager now needs to get some statement performances under his belt and not just have mini runs of good from.
Tbf, I am not saying you have to beat them, however you should be looking to get a result and run them close (even a close loss would be ok as long as you give it a go) otherwise you'll never get out of your cycle.
Arteta has already beaten Klopp, Pep, Mourinho, Rafa, Rodgers, Ole and Tuchel. He was probably the only manager to beat Europe's best team home and away last season. In all fairness, those are remarkable feats. He may fail to beat them again this season but may still finish top 6/top 4. It's exactly the same 3 points whether you beat Liverpool or Norwich, and if a team does well consistently against "the rest of the league" they can still finish high up the table.
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I mean that's not really a fair barometer is it ?
Games like Leicester, Spurs, Villa and West Ham are the important ones this season because wether we want it or not they are our competition for top 6. We need to go back to the basics of steamrolling the lesser sides and getting consistently good results against these other teams. Getting something out of City, Liverpool, United and Chelsea games are only morale boosters for now.
Seems like yesterday the going criticism of Wenger was he couldn't translate dominance of most teams in the league to matches against other big clubs like Chelsea and United. I'm sure Arsenal fans would kill for that level right now.
Already the same points as Ole.
Yeah, but those victories sort of came in and amogst iffy form if I remember correctly. My point (which I didn't make that clear) is that their current form is good, but the need a statement performance to go with it. If they do that, then maybe he has turned the corner.
Problem he has had so far is that it has been all so up and down and he is now getting to the stage where it needs to come together.
So what if he beats Liverpool but loses to Watford and Newcastle? What will your conclusion be? I'm sorry, but you are not making sense.
That he needs to go? For me, the time has come for him to put everything together rather than continue with good form/performances in fits and starts.
No matter the outcome, he deserves credit for at the very least having a long term vision for the team and working towards it. You can see it in his signings, their style of play, sideline coaching and pre/post match interviews. The results may come with time (looks like it), but regardless, he's stilled the ship and set them on a course.
Not doing so badly lately, since the City beating they've won 20/24 in the last 8, and are 5th tied with 4th with the two teams immediately above them playing each other tonight. Another false dawn?
20 points from 11 games is decent, Europa League spot form. Liverpool next.
I edited to correct the error: 20 points of 24 in the last 8 matches.
Finally we've worked our way to a neutral goal difference. Next game is Liverpool at Anfield, so we'll be back to a negative next gamewek. 
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Think I mentioned after the City game that the stretch of subsequent games would be key.
Still work to do in making Arsenal more dominant in games, but the results over the last few games will buy him some time to do that.
Still work to do in making Arsenal more dominant in games, but the results over the last few games will buy him some time to do that.
He’s always been pretty good at getting narrow wins against crap teams. That was behind all the silly hype in the first few months in charge. Especially after they rope a doped their way to some undeserved results against big teams (which they did in their only half decent result in recent weeks vs Leicester). Recent results don’t make any difference to the bigger picture.
Anfield and Old Trafford in their next three, will be interesting games.
He’s got a nice balance at the moment, was nice to see Maitland-Niles playing well, filled the role very well and was a big part in nullifying Watford.
Aubameyang was very poor.
He’s got a nice balance at the moment, was nice to see Maitland-Niles playing well, filled the role very well and was a big part in nullifying Watford.
Aubameyang was very poor.
Not quite right. We were dreadful at home last season against sides of any level. We’ve been much much better against the bottom-half sides so far this season, the team has gone up a level vs. last year.
Laborious, narrow wins against lower table teams might buy him some time alright, but should not deter the club from looking for an upgrade on him.
I don't disagree with you and ultimately if all he brings to the table are these narrow wins against crap teams then they won't save him, eventually their fans will demand more.
Credit to him for getting them back to 5th place but I still don't think the football his side plays is sustainable. It's boring. Watford could have easily equalized today. Major test against Liverpool. Win that and maybe he has finally found a plan which may work for sometime.
So far he's definitely upgradeable and if they find a viable option that makes sense there's no reason why they shouldn't pull the trigger. That concept applies to all but a few clubs in Europe though.
It-s not funny anymore, is it? As I predicted, I knew he would surpass Ole; only 3 points behind Liverpool and City; currently in Top4 form.
Ole remains the very worst manager of the Top6 clubs.
Ole remains the very worst manager of the Top6 clubs.