So basically you are guessing. Who knows what was in the torrent of verbal abuse coming out of Buffon’s mouth. I think Costa should be banned for a long time if it can be peroven he struck the ref.
Michael Oliver
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So basically you are guessing. Who knows what was in the torrent of verbal abuse coming out of Buffon’s mouth. I think Costa should be banned for a long time if it can be peroven he struck the ref.
Tbh I think this was quite clearly a penalty, he pushes him, he (slightly) kicks him and he got nowhere near the ball, even if there was VAR for this match I reckon he never would've stepped in. All this crying about the narrative of the match trumping rules is absolutely pathetic from the Italians and very unfair to the ref. It was just as pathetic when Bayern cried about being robbed by the ref last year or PSG vs Barca. It has become a completely toxic culture where no matter what happens someone will cry corruption and it's about time FIFA step in to protect the refs. Oliver did nothing wrong in that situation and yet the guys from Juve agitate masses against him. Let the refs hand out cards freely when players crowd them and let UEFA/FIFA hand out fines and bans for baseless corruption claims.
Respectfully, I disagree. The fact oliver was reacting in the heat of the moment means he has no business being near a match at this level. He should be making mental notes, and when in doubt consulting his assistants. Thats what they are there for. I believe it was Costa that banged into Buffon who in turn banged into oliver. Oliver had his back to him and didnt see who did what. He guessed, and that is the mark of a poor ref. He should have consulted his assistants as to who pushed him. However, it should never have gotten to that point. He should have controlled the team with the help of buffon. You see it all the time, ref says to the captain "Ill talk to you once this mess goes away.", then you see the captain urging his team mates away. It happens all the time. It didnt happen here because oliver bottled it and just kept ignoring everyone which does nothing but escalate the issue.
As for the pen, was it for the push or the missed kick that hit the attacking player in the chest? If its the push, those go either way. If it was for the miss kick, thats odd because I dont see how oliver could have seen that contact, and once again he didnt get any help from his assistants. Was it the right call? Maybe, but he handled it so poorly its easy to understand why no PL refs have been invited to the world cup if this is the best they have to offer.
Who was the first one to be shouting like a mad man at Oliver's face. Any closer, he would have been kissing Oliver.
So it takes Heynckes, Guardiola, Pochettino, many other managers during their presser today and the great majority of worldwide former referee now pundits, all of them stating Oliver’s call was doubtful at best, but no, here on the Caf it was a stonewall penalty and that utter tool is a hero. 
He didnt give the card for that, and as such its not the right action to take. What oliver did is equivalent to punching the first person he saw when he turned around after someone flicked his ear. Its schoolyard mentality at its finest. He had no idea who pushed him, and when a ref doesnt know, or doesnt see it hes not allowed to guess. He should have consulted his assistants as to who pushed him so that he could make the right call. Thats what the assistants are there for, and thats what good refs do. Oliver clearly has a chip on his shoulder after that Hart spat and is overcompensating for being spineless on that occasion.
A lot of things piled up, starting with Buffon shouting at him like that. And if you are going to talk ideal scenarios, Buffon should have stopped all his team mates from hounding the ref and said I ll do the talking and all you back off. He allowed everyone to have a go at the ref and lead the charge.
Rightly sent off.
I despise Oliver. And I think he is completely inconsistent. But Buffon was as almost asking for it, behaving like that. Oliver probably should have sent off Benatia (2 yellows) and Costa, but you would have been still complaining if he had given 2 reds and a yellow.
So it takes Heynckes, Guardiola, Pochettino, many other managers during their presser today and the great majority of worldwide former referee now pundits, all of them stating Oliver’s call was doubtful at best, but no, here on the Caf it was a stonewall penalty and that utter tool is a hero.
A lot of people are misinterpreting the 'context' of the game and what it means. Oliver had let both teams get away with rough housing during the game. Benatio, Matuidi and Marcelo were all very physical in dealing with their man.
So when Oliver called a penalty for that contact, the Juventus players were rightly pissed off at him, because he had let rough tackles go earlier on in the game.
The problem with Oliver is that he does not communicate with the players. So the players do not know how the referee is going to interpret a tackle. It becomes even worse, because Oliver himself interprets tackles very inconsistently.
So it takes Heynckes, Guardiola, Pochettino, many other managers during their presser today and the great majority of worldwide former referee now pundits, all of them stating Oliver’s call was doubtful at best, but no, here on the Caf it was a stonewall penalty and that utter tool is a hero.
You would think the fact its being discussed at such great length that the idea its a "stonewall" pen
Please don’t assume things about me. Just have to agree to disagree, because the conversation isn’t going anywhere.
I thought it was a penalty. A challenge from behind. It would've been called a foul anywhere else on the pitch.
Buffon's post match rant about how the referee should've taken into account that it would be his last game in Europe, or some other intangibles like that was nonsensical.
Buffon's post match rant about how the referee should've taken into account that it would be his last game in Europe, or some other intangibles like that was nonsensical.
Where i was trying to go was obviously not that refs should avoid decisions with big impact on the game. Especially not when they are correct decisions, why in the world would that be my point? I just think refs should be consistent and not confusing. This guy, Oliver, I don't think has the personality of a good ref. We may disagree but i just don't see it.
Let me break it down for you then, this is Oliver:
When a player touches his shirt, its a red card. Headrubbing is allowed tho, if you are English.
When a player goes down easy, its simulation and a yellow card. Looking for the foul tho is different, that's just smart so is allowed and rewarded with penalty or freekick.
Light fouls are clearly allowed to let the game breathe on it's own. Not at the 94th minute tho, that's different, the time is up so the same rules doesn't apply anymore of course, players should know this and act very careful in the last minute.
How any player can follow this guy, i don't understand.
To be more clear about my point in the post you quoted. The reason I asked why you think the last call was more important than other decisions, is because if the last decision was right then a lot of his decisions was wrong earlier in the game. If he was to be considered consistent that is, but he is not. Because he is not trying to be, he is a ref that lives on making these types of decisions with total disregard of earlier incidents and context. (Not narrative, but context)
Has nothing to do with Juve, Buffon, Real or any sort of narrative like that. Not for me at least, I just want to hate on him a bit, because he always makes these calls and it comes with a cost so i don't like that people are buying into it
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Referees are the alibi of those who never win anything (buffon 2012)
So it takes Heynckes, Guardiola, Pochettino, many other managers during their presser today and the great majority of worldwide former referee now pundits, all of them stating Oliver’s call was doubtful at best, but no, here on the Caf it was a stonewall penalty and that utter tool is a hero.
2 former players of catalan clubs and someone who prefer facing the official cl bottlers then real......sure
Its like relying on spit and slip to give non biased views on united
Oliver is a fecking shit ref
He got both these decisions right
He got both these decisions right
Regardless of what ex pros and current managers said, I thought it was a clear foul, therefore a clear penalty but I can understand the frustration since Oliver did have a very refeering game and in the most important moment of the game, he seemed to remember the rules
I think this discussion has gotten a bit silly tbh - which doesn't particularly matter & I'm not having a go at anybody. But...
While we know Oliver is a dreadful referee - I just don't think you'll justify or support that using the other night to strengthen that case because it doesn't, in the sense that there is plenty of penno in there & plenty ++ of red card. And I wasn't 'totally' convinced by the penalty btw. Buffon is out or order, understandably out of order perhaps, but I don't see he left Mr O much option, really.
While we know Oliver is a dreadful referee - I just don't think you'll justify or support that using the other night to strengthen that case because it doesn't, in the sense that there is plenty of penno in there & plenty ++ of red card. And I wasn't 'totally' convinced by the penalty btw. Buffon is out or order, understandably out of order perhaps, but I don't see he left Mr O much option, really.
I think I understand what you mean. I agree that it is very difficult for a player if the referee is inconsistent throughout the match. Also, being consistent is one of the most important qualities of a referee. I have been a player and referee myself in handball, where the referee kind of sets the tone the first ten minutes. You cannot expect the level or 'tone' to be the same in two different matches, but hopefully throughout one match.
I agree Oliver is not the definition of consistent in this match. But the penalty was so clear that no doubt, and if he did not blow he would have been the one to decide the outcome of this match. I cannot say it was more or less important than other, more than that a penalty in last minute always has very high importance. However that has not anything to do with Oliver, but with Benatia who comitted the foul and stopped RM from scoring the winning goal. It was Benatias decision that created the penalty, not the referee.
That's an excellent point - I think they (and us) are too fixated on overall consistency for me. Fairness in the 1 game is better for me. and much more possible.
Oliver doesn't do either particularly well though,
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Oliver mismanaged the whole situation and the decision wasn’t in line with how he refereed the rest of the game. He panicked and sent off Buffon as he was in front of him.
It was a very soft penalty. There were plenty of other soft fouls in the game not given, so why give that one to hand the tie to Madrid?
English pundits, referees and most of the media are closing ranks with Oliver. His incompetence makes the premier league look bad. The fact there isn’t an English ref at the World Cup fuels the flames. The fact it’s because Clattenburg moved to Saudi Arabian doesn’t matter.
Oliver won’t be given another big European game again IMO. If only because if anything controversial happened this incident will be brought up endlessly. He doesn’t have the temperament and control for it either, so probably for the best.
Look at Clattenburg’s comments about refereeing Tottenham and Halsey about calling Sir Alex up, if you want to see the state of refereeing in England. It’s a total shambles,
Premier league referees are average 43, which is about 5-10 years older on average than any other major European league. PGMOL is in crisis.
It was a very soft penalty. There were plenty of other soft fouls in the game not given, so why give that one to hand the tie to Madrid?
English pundits, referees and most of the media are closing ranks with Oliver. His incompetence makes the premier league look bad. The fact there isn’t an English ref at the World Cup fuels the flames. The fact it’s because Clattenburg moved to Saudi Arabian doesn’t matter.
Oliver won’t be given another big European game again IMO. If only because if anything controversial happened this incident will be brought up endlessly. He doesn’t have the temperament and control for it either, so probably for the best.
Look at Clattenburg’s comments about refereeing Tottenham and Halsey about calling Sir Alex up, if you want to see the state of refereeing in England. It’s a total shambles,
Premier league referees are average 43, which is about 5-10 years older on average than any other major European league. PGMOL is in crisis.
Whilst I agree with the majority of your post I don’t think Oliver is terrible. He like Dean vary in games in their strictness with decisions and bookings and that’s frustrating. But both them are not terrible, the premiership has been spoilt with good refereeing from Clattenburg, Poll (before ego problem crept in) and Webb. Nowadays the standard is very poor with Mann, Oliver and Dean all the leading lights when in reality they can struggle during games and this affects the game being played and that’s the difference I find between these two sets of referees but we also have to take into consideration the era’s as well.
Yeah OK, I do see what you're saying certainly - maybe it is this variability within games, which definitely exists, particularly from one half to the other usually isn't it?
I quite like Mike Dean (until he goes off on one) - I think you can at least trust him to be giving the same stuff at both ends & when he's good I think that he's very good actually (that might be a bit of a controversial opinion,
)Yeah OK, I do see what you're saying certainly - maybe it is this variability within games, which definitely exists, particularly from one half to the other usually isn't it?
I quite like Mike Dean (until he goes off on one) - I think you can at least trust him to be giving the same stuff at both ends & when he's good I think that he's very good actually (that might be a bit of a controversial opinion,
Lol Dean is not a favourite of mine but he can be decent.
I think the outrage about English refs from people on here is cause they watch a whole lot more of English football on here. You hear about shit decisions being made in Italy and Spain but no one gives a shit and calls their ref's shit.
Also regarding the oh, he didn't see it argument, which is a bit silly as you don't know exactly what he saw. People forgetting there is an official behind the goal and a linesman, who may have said something to the ref.
Also regarding the oh, he didn't see it argument, which is a bit silly as you don't know exactly what he saw. People forgetting there is an official behind the goal and a linesman, who may have said something to the ref.
Indeed. The Spanish ref hi the City - Liverpool game was a lot worse.
I don't particularly rate Oliver, but he made the right call... the challenge was an attempt to prevent a goal scoring opportunity without any chance of playing the ball.
What Buffon said to him, we'll never know, but during the 90 minutes, I really didn't see a ref trying to make himself the story. I'm not sure he had a choice.
What Buffon said to him, we'll never know, but during the 90 minutes, I really didn't see a ref trying to make himself the story. I'm not sure he had a choice.
Days later and Michael Oliver's wife is still receiving death threats against both her husband and family.
Although there is some bizarre wider inclination to paint Buffon as some sort of hero, he's behaved like a colossal bellend in recent days. He isn't responsible for the death threats of others, but he's responsible for his choice of words and his unbelievably stupid behaviour.
Referees are fair game to abuse and assault, apparently. It's rife all over Sunday league in England - hence clubs struggle to get refs in. And when Buffon behaves like a knobhead - and is praised for this in some quarters - it normalises it further down the pyramid.
Oliver is a normal bloke with a normal family in Northumberland. The criticism this week has been nothing short of atrocious and Buffon should remove the cock and balls from his forehead, reattach them down his nether regions and publicly apologise for his behaviour. Or at least call for some sense from his supposed supporters.
Although there is some bizarre wider inclination to paint Buffon as some sort of hero, he's behaved like a colossal bellend in recent days. He isn't responsible for the death threats of others, but he's responsible for his choice of words and his unbelievably stupid behaviour.
Referees are fair game to abuse and assault, apparently. It's rife all over Sunday league in England - hence clubs struggle to get refs in. And when Buffon behaves like a knobhead - and is praised for this in some quarters - it normalises it further down the pyramid.
Oliver is a normal bloke with a normal family in Northumberland. The criticism this week has been nothing short of atrocious and Buffon should remove the cock and balls from his forehead, reattach them down his nether regions and publicly apologise for his behaviour. Or at least call for some sense from his supposed supporters.
Remember when Mourinho pretty much forced Anders Frisk into early retirement due to death threats from Chelsea fans, based on Mourinho lying about Frisk and Frank Rijkaard having a cup of tea at half time together? I mean at the end of the day, it's just shite football. It's not worth threatening someones life over, and managers and players need to get out of this bubble and realise it.
I just dont understand people like that. Why would you take a game THAT seriously? Italians always have taken football far too serious. I remember that Koren guy, Ahn Jung-hwan, got sacked by Perugia because he scored a golden goal against Italy in the world cup. Talk about bad losers.
That Perugia owner was absolutely mental. Sacked that Korean lad, signed Colonel Gaddafi's son, in a PR move he said he wanted to put a woman in the team and another time said he wish he could have a team of horses on the pitch. He liked signing a ridiculous number players - over 50 used in this particular season.
He also ran off to the Dominican Republic for 4 years when Perugia went bankrupt and his finances were being investigated. He got a suspended prison sentence in the end.
attacker clear sight on goal 7 yards out, defender lunges from behind, contact made with the attacker, attacker goes down under the force. Don't know what more you need mate.So it takes Heynckes, Guardiola, Pochettino, many other managers during their presser today and the great majority of worldwide former referee now pundits, all of them stating Oliver’s call was doubtful at best, but no, here on the Caf it was a stonewall penalty and that utter tool is a hero.
I trust high-reputed peers and first-hand experts more than the common sense and the internet brigade.
I thought he had a good game. He didn't fall for the diving antics from Ronaldo and co in the entire game. And the penalty, in the end, was correct so was the card. No one is bigger than the game. Rules apply to everyone and every club
The people who are defending Buffon would be the first ones who would want players to be carded had it been Barca or Real or City hounding the ref
So why didn't he book Ronaldo for diving, when he booked six Juventus players for various offences? It's not just the late penalty award and subsequent red card for Buffon that's in question, it's the inconsistency of refereeing beforehand that led to the outrage.
Would Michael Oliver have sent off Tony Adams?
Damn! That’s some bat shit right there. It boggles the mind how people that bonkers can get into positions of power.
Like the ref? he is the most impartial. Good decision. My only doubt is the sending off but this is all "much ado about nothing." If you come from behind a player with a scoring opportunity, clatter the player and miss the ball, you are asking for trouble. These so called experts, what decision would they give then, play on? a Penalty to Lord Buffon at the other end? Maybe send off Ronaldo
Caf user Stacks made his point, so did Maradona, Chilavert and many many more in the last couple of days adding to this same tune: it was a doubtful call made by an inconsistent, inexperienced referee at the very end of a game far beyond his own ability. That’s the point coming from the cognoscenti. You do not agree? Fair enough. Is your opinion worth something? Sure. Is your opinion worth more than the one consistently expressed by three quartes of the world level, first-hand experience of big games, football community? Nope. Is this debate going to change anything? Possibly, Collina losing his seat and Oliver eating a lot of humble pie before being given another game like that.
I've seen this a few times in the thread, it's not actually a reflection of the quality of PL refs, it's because Clattenburg left and there wasn't enough time to replace him.
I’ll be honest, I don’t watch a lot of other leagues so I can’t comment on the quality of refs in other leagues, maybe they are equal in quality. That being said, I find the refereeing in the PL to be very inconsistent. I won’t say they are biased one way or another, ive seen many teams get gifts and get screwed in equal measure. Oliver though, there’s just so much wrong with the way he referees I guess he’s made me a bit hyperbolic.