Michael Oliver

there were at least 4 fouls on him especially after he started running and turning at Utd midfield.
What did Conte do to get inside Olivers head by the way especially to convince him to send a player off?

#Clutching at straws
Yes a few fouls but they play the ball to Hazard all the time, he twists and turns and as soon as he feels a slight nudge he hits the floor and rolls around. Sometimes they are not fouls.

Conte comes flying out waving his arms shouting and screaming like he's just seen somebody get murdered it's absolutely ridiculous. He gets the crowd riled up and makes everything seem worse.

If that was at old trafford there's no way Herrera get's sent off.
 
there were at least 4 fouls on him especially after he started running and turning at Utd midfield.
What did Conte do to get inside Olivers head by the way especially to convince him to send a player off?

#Clutching at straws
A dribbler gets fouled 4 times in 35 mins. It's not a lot to be honest.
 
A dribbler gets fouled 4 times in 35 mins. It's not a lot to be honest.

Yeah I was thinking this. Hazard had the ball more then anyone in the first 30 minutes - he was their main outlet and was there only player running with the ball. So 4 fouls on him isn't exactly mental.

It's not even remotely comparable to what we did to Reyes that one time... no one was sliding in on him or doign anything too bad. Hazard and Conte just made it all out to be much worse then it was.
 
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Yeah I was thinking this. Hazard had the ball more then anyone in the first 30 minutes - he was their main outlet and was there only player running with the ball. So 4 fouls on him isn't exactly mental.
What gets me is this team fouling thing. It wasn't imo, it was Jones fouling Hazard. It wasn't as if we were taking turns, the majority of fouls came from Jones.
This team rule should only apply if there isn't an obvious culprit.
Jones was that culprit
 
What are the games he's reffed us this season? Usually him and Clattenberg get me worried when I see them against us. Almost always feels like that's another obstacle.

1-3 vs Watford Penalty for Watford
1-1 vs Everton Penalty for Everton
1-1 vs Liverpool Penalty for Liverpool
 
What gets me is this team fouling thing. It wasn't imo, it was Jones fouling Hazard. It wasn't as if we were taking turns, the majority of fouls came from Jones.
This team rule should only apply if there isn't an obvious culprit.
Jones was that culprit

I was just about to say this too - I'm almost certain only Jones and Herrera (for his first booking) had fouled Hazard up to that point. Maybe one other, but thats it. How exactly is that "team fouling"? It's feckin' nonsense.
 
The red card didn't make sense in the context of the game. Both Herrera's fouls could be bookings but it was practically the only two fouls he made. At that point Jones had already made 3-4 worse fouls, if the ref was consistent he would have to send off another 3-4 players in the 2nd half.

But even in isolation to send a player off after 30 minutes for those two fouls is pathetic in any game never mind a big 1/4 final.
 
Officials are ruining too many games this season, introduce video technology asap for almost every decision and take it out of the ref's hands. Punish things like diving, simulation and dangerous tackles retroactively while we are at it so nothing is missed. It's about bloody time frankly with the number of poor decisions that have to be justified later on just because they happened and to lend a modicum of fairness to these turn of events. And for ffs loth as i am to agree with him, Wenger does have a point when he says that referees shouldn't be protected like lions in a zoo, they must be held accountable.
 
I'm absolutely astounded at the willingness on here to defend such a ridiculous decision and land the blame on our own player instead. While we're analysing the rulebook, is this not the same rulebook that would see ten penalties a game for holding at corners? And is it not the same rulebook that is full of far less ambigious rules that are still enforced so inconsistently week in week out? I don't think I've ever seen a sending off in these circumstances. Not one. So let's not pretend that this is a common situation that everyone should be aware of.

I still have issues with it even having read the rule because what constitutes targetting a player? In case we've somehow forgotten after the abundance of eulogising last night, Hazard happens to be a very good player. He's also Chelsea's most creative player and who they get the ball to the most. Finally, he's one of the most likely players in the league to go down like a bag of shite as soon as he realises that buying a freekick is more likely to succeed than the dribble. We were playing an aggressive game in which we weren't affording their creative players much space (how dare we...) which resulted in Hazard and Willian, in particular, being subjected to a number of fouls. None of these fouls were reckless or dangerous, and I can only really remember a couple that were even arguably cynical. Herrera was punished for his block, for example. The tactic was also working legitimately well, we were winning the ball back or forcing the Chelsea player backwards far more often than we were giving a foul away. But what? This tactic is unfair or unsportsmanlike because it isn't giving their best players the most freedom possible to cause havoc???

I shouldn't care this much, but I went through the report for the game and noted each foul up to the sending off (35 minutes in):
  • Herrera's second yellow was United's 8th foul of the game. 9th including the off the ball clash, for which advantage was played.
  • It was Herrera's second foul of the game.
  • It was the 4th time Hazard won a freekick. The 5th time he was fouled including the clash with Herrera.
  • By this time, Willian had also been fouled three times. (Woah. Targeted. The poor soul...)
  • Phil Jones had actually only committed two fouls (both on Hazard) when he and Smalling were given a talking to by the ref. The first of which, by the way, was a complete nothing challenge on the edge of Chelsea's area.
  • Chelsea only committed one foul during this time with a late challenge by Costa on, ironically, Herrera. It went unpunished.
Herrera wasn't guilty of excessive force (it was never going to be a damaging tackle), nor was he guilty of persistent fouling. You could pick out pretty much any game and see several challenges like Herrera's go completely unpunished with barely a mention, so it was certainly not a nailed on yellow card taken in isolation. Finally, he was not involved in the discussions between Oliver, Smalling and Jones and with less than five seconds between the end of those discussions and his second yellow how can he even be aware that the referee is about to clamp down on the next guy to foul Hazard? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that said discussions were focused on Jones, either. Regardless, that's even allowing for the stupidity of that rule and the way it has been stretched within an inch of its life to try and justify events yesterday. Herrera was unlucky.

It's unjustifiable by any reasonably measure and the latest in a long string of rubbish performances by an incredibly overrated referee.
 
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Herrera was simply found guilty by association. His second card was never warranted. Oliver just bowed to pressure from the touchline and crowd due to Jones' tackle a minute earlier.

Which was such a minor push that even Hazard didn't roll around holding his ankle!
 
Herrera had possibly 3 fouls the entire game and got 2 yellow cards, none of which were bad

2 fouls @lysglimt, just 2. Neither bad.

I've hated the 2 yellow card rule for a while and am a big advocate of a sin-bin in the event of a soft second yellow. It just ruins football to turn it into 11 v 10 for what little Herrera did last night, but without a sin-bin, referees are absolutely in their right to send the likes of Herrera off... it's daft.
 
Has there been a more mealy mouthed, spineless cnut of a ref than him? Honestly, whenever we have him in a big game away from home you just know he'll feck us over.
 
there were at least 4 fouls on him especially after he started running and turning at Utd midfield.
What did Conte do to get inside Olivers head by the way especially to convince him to send a player off?

#Clutching at straws

Jesus if this is the way of looking at things then Barca would've been winning abandoned matches in the hey day of Messi and Iniesta's dribbling.
 
Jesus if this is the way of looking at things then Barca would've been winning abandoned matches in the hey day of Messi and Iniesta's dribbling.

Indeed.

Imagine if after a player gets fouled 4 times, every other foul on that player is a booking... We'd have played against 10 men every other week when we had Ronaldo here.
 
Oliver did have a bad game. Missed a stamp by Rojo and should have sent off Valencia, too. Need more consistency in refereeing.
 
Oliver did have a bad game. Missed a stamp by Rojo and should have sent off Valencia, too. Need more consistency in refereeing.
And refused to book Cahill minutes after tge red despite him literally pulling someone down. Not to mention Hazards numerous dives
 
And refused to book Cahill minutes after tge red despite him literally pulling someone down. Not to mention Hazards numerous dives

Hazard was consistently fouled by United players, these stories of diving are an excuse for United support to justify the fact their team were trying to stop him from playing by any means necessary.

Cahill slipped, even if it's a foul, it's only a yellow. United fans are clutching at straws here.
 
I thought he should have booked Cahill for that pull on Rashford and he should have booked Costa earlier imo.I don't really have any issues with the red, it was soft but a player like Herrera should know better than to do a stupid tackle like that when on a yellow.
 
Hazard was consistently fouled

4 times

by United players,

Jones twice, (second time he got a talking to) Herrera once (which he was booked for) and Darmian once (a nothing foul).

Seriously, is that really that much? At the point where Jones made his second foul on Hazard, Willian had been fouled just as many times. Was he been targetted too?
 
4 times



Jones twice, (second time he got a talking to) Herrera once (which he was booked for) and Darmian once (a nothing foul).

Seriously, is that really that much? At the point where Jones made his second foul on Hazard, Willian had been fouled just as many times. Was he been targetted too?

So what's your point? That United were consistently fouling other CFC players, too? That only backs my view that Oliver should have been even more strict. He simply took a pity on the United team in the second half.
 
So what's your point? That United were consistently fouling other CFC players, too? That only backs my view that Oliver should have been even more strict. He simply took a pity on the United team in the second half.

No, the point is that that clearly isn't enough to be "consistent".

Imagine if Stoke games under Pullis had been refereed like that, or when Big Sam's Bolton went up against Arsenal. 4 fouls on one player isn't a lot - and certainly not enough to claim that United players were targetting him, especially when that player is Hazard and he's running at your defenders.
 
So what's your point? That United were consistently fouling other CFC players, too? That only backs my view that Oliver should have been even more strict. He simply took a pity on the United team in the second half.
Strict what? Fouls happen in games.
Don't go all Wenger on us buddy..
 
The scary thing is that according to his Wikipedia page, he is only 32. He could a referee for another 16,17 years, at least the likes of Atkinson and Dean only have a few more years. I wonder would be one of the Asian countries be willing to lure him abroad, a la Clattenburg.
 
No, they were all penalties.
Which is fine. But in his games he has also denied United stone wall penalties.

Referees tend to blur together in my mind, but I've noticed Oliver from the start because he looks exactly like my brother. Oliver will always give something against United first chance he gets but will not reward United anything

I genuinely think Michael Oliver (the man) doesn't like United. Maybe it's subconscious, but Michael Oliver (the professional referee) is definitely letting it slip into his work

Joe Hart headbuts him - not even a warning
Di Maria knocks him on the back - straight red

Martial gets his ankle torn with a horrific tackle - play on and Watford immediately score
Hazard gets tripped although barely touched - red card for herrera

It's just constantly every game, it'll be one rule for United and another for our opponents, no consistency at all. He wouldn't have given any of those 3 pens or that red card in our favour. I guarantee it
 
what was worrying is how quickly he went for his card, any top referee gives himself a couple of minutes to look at the situation and to then give a decision so that its him making the decision and not the influence of the crowd or manager. The big problem for football is sending players off for so little sends the wrong message and kind of eliminates a lot of whats good about football, we want to see physical duels, there was no harm in what herrera did but overall may have deserved a yellow but certainly not a red. Oliver is experienced enough now to no not to be influenced as he often seems to, if the crowd get on his back he folds so quickly its untrue.

Can't agree more, his hand was in his pocket almost before the foul was committed. He should talk to player, the captain and his assistants before carding & sending off. It should be mandatory for all cards, that the ref must consult his colleagues before issuing the card and explain to the player and/or the captain before showing the card.

Spur of the moment decisions like that should not be allowed.
 
Which is fine. But in his games he has also denied United stone wall penalties.

Referees tend to blur together in my mind, but I've noticed Oliver from the start because he looks exactly like my brother. Oliver will always give something against United first chance he gets but will not reward United anything

I genuinely think Michael Oliver (the man) doesn't like United. Maybe it's subconscious, but Michael Oliver (the professional referee) is definitely letting it slip into his work

Joe Hart headbuts him - not even a warning
Di Maria knocks him on the back - straight red

Martial gets his ankle torn with a horrific tackle - play on and Watford immediately score
Hazard gets tripped although barely touched - red card for herrera

It's just constantly every game, it'll be one rule for United and another for our opponents, no consistency at all. He wouldn't have given any of those 3 pens or that red card in our favour. I guarantee it
The worst decision of them all was v Leicester last year. Depay was fouled just outside the box but it carried on into the box, which is a pen.
It was a pen or nothing, the fact he gave a freekick shows a distinct lack of knowledge of the rules or maybe even something worse
 
What did my nut in was how moments later Cahill pulled Rashford to the floor breaking up a counterattack and saw no hint of a card.

He's another of those names I see on the pre match build up and think "feck here we go again".
 
Some very good posts up there. @Problem-free Philosophy @LawCharltonBest @cyberman

and esp @rotherham_red here

Has there been a more mealy mouthed, spineless cnut of a ref than him? Honestly, whenever we have him in a big game away from home you just know he'll feck us over.

If Oliver books Jones likes he wants to, he doesn't back himself into a great big hole - he's shit enough to start with, without making it more difficult for himself
 
Just rewatched another incident from the game in another thread. Rojo should have been sent off, as well as the countless nibbles he let our players have but yeah lets focus attention on him as the reason we lost.
 
Ironic Chelsea fans on here talking about 'dirty' Manchester United fouling Hazard. Do you not see Diego Costa in any game? Simulation, foul mouthing everyone, leaving his foot in after every challenge. It was no exception last night, even leaving his elbow into De Gea's stomach in the first half amongst other things.

Herrera's second yellow is never a card. Awful decision, gave the game to Chelsea.
 
and as for Valencias 2 footed lunge ....what a miss by the ref that was.
 
Ironic Chelsea fans on here talking about 'dirty' Manchester United fouling Hazard. Do you not see Diego Costa in any game? Simulation, foul mouthing everyone, leaving his foot in after every challenge. It was no exception last night, even leaving his elbow into De Gea's stomach in the first half amongst other things.

Herrera's second yellow is never a card. Awful decision, gave the game to Chelsea.
Well said. Costa is one of the dirtiest players in the league, and consistently gets away with it. Convenient to be blind to this fact. Chelsea's cynicism goes unpunished, and God forbid we stay tight to Hazard who hits the deck at the slightest hint of pressure.
 
I'm absolutely astounded at the willingness on here to defend such a ridiculous decision and land the blame on our own player instead. While we're analysing the rulebook, is this not the same rulebook that would see ten penalties a game for holding at corners? And is it not the same rulebook that is full of far less ambigious rules that are still enforced so inconsistently week in week out? I don't think I've ever seen a sending off in these circumstances. Not one. So let's not pretend that this is a common situation that everyone should be aware of.

I still have issues with it even having read the rule because what constitutes targetting a player? In case we've somehow forgotten after the abundance of eulogising last night, Hazard happens to be a very good player. He's also Chelsea's most creative player and who they get the ball to the most. Finally, he's one of the most likely players in the league to go down like a bag of shite as soon as he realises that buying a freekick is more likely to succeed than the dribble. We were playing an aggressive game in which we weren't affording their creative players much space (how dare we...) which resulted in Hazard and Willian, in particular, being subjected to a number of fouls. None of these fouls were reckless or dangerous, and I can only really remember a couple that were even arguably cynical. Herrera was punished for his block, for example. The tactic was also working legitimately well, we were winning the ball back or forcing the Chelsea player backwards far more often than we were giving a foul away. But what? This tactic is unfair or unsportsmanlike because it isn't giving their best players the most freedom possible to cause havoc???

I shouldn't care this much, but I went through the report for the game and noted each foul up to the sending off (35 minutes in):
  • Herrera's second yellow was United's 8th foul of the game. 9th including the off the ball clash, for which advantage was played.
  • It was Herrera's second foul of the game.
  • It was the 4th time Hazard won a freekick. The 5th time he was fouled including the clash with Herrera.
  • By this time, Willian had also been fouled three times. (Woah. Targeted. The poor soul...)
  • Phil Jones had actually only committed two fouls (both on Hazard) when he and Smalling were given a talking to by the ref. The first of which, by the way, was a complete nothing challenge on the edge of Chelsea's area.
  • Chelsea only committed one foul during this time with a late challenge by Costa on, ironically, Herrera. It went unpunished.
Herrera wasn't guilty of excessive force (it was never going to be a damaging tackle), nor was he guilty of persistent fouling. You could pick out pretty much any game and see several challenges like Herrera's go completely unpunished with barely a mention, so it was certainly not a nailed on yellow card taken in isolation. Finally, he was not involved in the discussions between Oliver, Smalling and Jones and with less than five seconds between the end of those discussions and his second yellow how can he even be aware that the referee is about to clamp down on the next guy to foul Hazard? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that said discussions were focused on Jones, either. Regardless, that's even allowing for the stupidity of that rule and the way it has been stretched within an inch of its life to try and justify events yesterday. Herrera was unlucky.

It's unjustifiable by any reasonably measure and the latest in a long string of rubbish performances by an incredibly overrated referee.
Excellent post.
 
What did my nut in was how moments later Cahill pulled Rashford to the floor breaking up a counterattack and saw no hint of a card.

He's another of those names I see on the pre match build up and think "feck here we go again".
This, I pretty much expected something like this the moment I saw he was ref before the match had started.
 
Which is fine. But in his games he has also denied United stone wall penalties.

Referees tend to blur together in my mind, but I've noticed Oliver from the start because he looks exactly like my brother. Oliver will always give something against United first chance he gets but will not reward United anything

I genuinely think Michael Oliver (the man) doesn't like United. Maybe it's subconscious, but Michael Oliver (the professional referee) is definitely letting it slip into his work

Joe Hart headbuts him - not even a warning
Di Maria knocks him on the back - straight red

Martial gets his ankle torn with a horrific tackle - play on and Watford immediately score
Hazard gets tripped although barely touched - red card for herrera

It's just constantly every game, it'll be one rule for United and another for our opponents, no consistency at all. He wouldn't have given any of those 3 pens or that red card in our favour. I guarantee it
The Martial foul was a disgrace. He got concussed ffs. The Herrera red card no way we get that in our favor.

Those pens were probably the right decisions, but your right I don't think we'd have gotten them. Certainly not the Liverpool and Everton pens.