Agree, just a shit referee.
He simply could have ruled out Arsenal goals if he's that corrupt, or gave City pen in 21th minute when Arsenal player grabbed Akanji in the box or gave a foul when Rodri down injured.
Michael Oliver
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He simply could have ruled out Arsenal goals if he's that corrupt, or gave City pen in 21th minute when Arsenal player grabbed Akanji in the box or gave a foul when Rodri down injured.
Anyone who seriously thinks refs are corrupt are crazy. They just aren't great at their frankly impossible jobs.
I don't think they are corrupt. They are just human, prone to unconscious bias, and they work within an organization in PGMOL that is really terribly run and more interested in protecting its members and directors from criticism than in maximizing the quality of PL refereeing.
Anybody who has been in the working world long enough will tell you that you can have talented, honest, hardworking employees but if they work within a dysfunctional company and their bosses are shit, then they will often produce shit too.
That's what happens when the referee is a well known inconsistent screwup. You try to get little advantages like that.
Someone should've cloned Perluigi Collina.
You can’t watch his decisions last season and not at least question him. Not awarding Liverpool a stonewall penalty and the kovacic incidents, none of which are really debatable. It’s not an exaggeration to say Arsenal would have won the PL if not for Michael Oliver last season.
Yes it is. If buts and maybes. What about all the times Arsenal benefitted from poor referee decisions last season?
Yep. Funnily enough you don’t see Arsenal fans calling him corrupt for that. The Akanji one - Timber has both his hands round him trying to bear hug him ffs.
Talk about reaching with that Silva clip.
Even if you just watched yesterday’s game you wouldn’t conclude he was biased against Arsenal. At one point Calefiori clearly took out Savinho right on the edge of the box and he waved play on, until the linesman waved his flag and forced him to give the foul.
I think yesterday more highlighted he’s not particularly good, I said in terms of his blatantly corrupt decisions the second yellow wasn’t one. Which is why it’s more suspect he always gets the important city games. Even if there’s no conflict of interest (which there is) surely they’d want the best PL ref on duty for games between title rivals. He routinely gets too much wrong to be a Pl ref in my opinion, let alone the ‘best’ of the refs.
I don't think Oliver is corrupt in the sense that he takes envelopes to ensure a certain outcome.
Let's call it the difference between soft and hard corruption.
I do think he, and Webb, are corrupt by failing to recognise and acknowledge conflicts of interest and being too laissez faire about the financial interests of referees. It enables both soft and hard corruption.
The Liverpool game last season he, and his VAR crew, had just taken cash payment from the city owners to ref a game weeks before. And then when a stonewall penalty happens in injury time - you really expect the referee to be suitably unbiased in making a high stakes call that would almost certainly decide the game against his pay masters? Of course it's an influence. And it came to bear on the game. He should never have been allowed to referee it.
The fact that Webb closed rank around it afterwards is a different kind of corruption. The matey "we've got each other's back ahead of the integrity of the game." kind.
Let's call it the difference between soft and hard corruption.
I do think he, and Webb, are corrupt by failing to recognise and acknowledge conflicts of interest and being too laissez faire about the financial interests of referees. It enables both soft and hard corruption.
The Liverpool game last season he, and his VAR crew, had just taken cash payment from the city owners to ref a game weeks before. And then when a stonewall penalty happens in injury time - you really expect the referee to be suitably unbiased in making a high stakes call that would almost certainly decide the game against his pay masters? Of course it's an influence. And it came to bear on the game. He should never have been allowed to referee it.
The fact that Webb closed rank around it afterwards is a different kind of corruption. The matey "we've got each other's back ahead of the integrity of the game." kind.
I'm too lazy to find the Haaland thread. But he threw the ball against the back of a arsenal players head after the 2-2 was scored. Surely that is unsportsmanlike conduct per definition?
I think the litmus test with yellow cards when the refs are inconsistent and make up their own rules anyway is 'would people complain if he wasn't sent off?' and I don't think Trossard's comes close to passing that bar.
Neither the foul, nor the kicking the ball away, would have attracted much if any comment had Oliver simply not done anything. Compare that to Kovacic's from the game last season where he completely bottled making a decision he had to make when he actually had been given no choice.
I think that's what particularly rankles with the Trossard decision as a neutral. It's not that you can't find an explanation to say why he should have been sent off, it's that for years we have seen refs justify not sending players off or not applying the rules of the game in order to keep the game 11 vs 11. Having an enjoyable, good game of football turned into a 45 minute bore fest of attack Vs defence because a ref decided to be ultra fussy just screams of him trying to insert himself into the narrative of the game.
There was plenty of opportunity for him to show he wouldn't accept behaviour like Trossard's earlier in the game which he didn't clamp down on (the City reaction to the first goal was a prime opportunity to hand out some yellows to show you mean business in regards to disssent), but he couldn't help himself when the opportunity to flash a red came up.
I think the other thing that shows that he was simply looking to get the red card out is the changing explanation for what Trossard was actually sent off for. In the immediate aftermath VAR was claiming it was for the foul, and then after half time it was for kicking the ball away. The whole thing screamed like it was Oliver on a power trip and then the VAR defence force swung into action to try and retroactively justify what their mate had just done.
Neither the foul, nor the kicking the ball away, would have attracted much if any comment had Oliver simply not done anything. Compare that to Kovacic's from the game last season where he completely bottled making a decision he had to make when he actually had been given no choice.
I think that's what particularly rankles with the Trossard decision as a neutral. It's not that you can't find an explanation to say why he should have been sent off, it's that for years we have seen refs justify not sending players off or not applying the rules of the game in order to keep the game 11 vs 11. Having an enjoyable, good game of football turned into a 45 minute bore fest of attack Vs defence because a ref decided to be ultra fussy just screams of him trying to insert himself into the narrative of the game.
There was plenty of opportunity for him to show he wouldn't accept behaviour like Trossard's earlier in the game which he didn't clamp down on (the City reaction to the first goal was a prime opportunity to hand out some yellows to show you mean business in regards to disssent), but he couldn't help himself when the opportunity to flash a red came up.
I think the other thing that shows that he was simply looking to get the red card out is the changing explanation for what Trossard was actually sent off for. In the immediate aftermath VAR was claiming it was for the foul, and then after half time it was for kicking the ball away. The whole thing screamed like it was Oliver on a power trip and then the VAR defence force swung into action to try and retroactively justify what their mate had just done.
It’s a yellow card. But Oliver obviously didn’t see it and VAR can’t intervene to give a yellow card.
Throwing a object at the opposition while the play is paused is surely a red. And a ten game ban at a minimum.
Ah. Ok. Then I agree. But I’ve no issue with Trossard being sent off. I would have been fine with him getting a yellow for the dirty foul on Silva. I think the fact he also kicked the ball away was one of those situations where a booking takes into account a couple of linked actions.
Who said he is corrupt? He is just shit at his job.
Why would it be crazy?
We've had corruption scandals with plenty of refs in other leagues, we have refs openly engaging in behaviour which creates conflict of interests, and we have a team who we know had cheated at an industrial scale.
I agree with you mostly that the refs are incompetent, and I'm not sure yesterday was much more than Oliver being a hopeless tosspot, but there's serious questions for the PGMOL to be answering about their refs relationships with City's owners that is at least worthy of investigation. Dismissing it as 'crazy' just strikes me as the classic English response to corruption of 'we don't do that sort of stuff here'.
I agree with you. I choose to believe it is incompetence, but it is certainly far from impossible. There might be some inherent bias at work too, additional pressure felt upon their shoulders etc...but mostly I think it is incompetence. Just out of curiosity, do people on here remember all the refs from 25 years ago? We seemingly have refs now that like to be front and center.
Indeed only Trossard knows but come on the suggestion that he thought it was a whistle for half time or indeed “everybody on the planet” was starting to blow for half time is just fanciful.
Trossard could and probably should have been given a second yellow for the foul it was obvious that Oliver had given a foul for two reasons one it was a single blast ( at half and full time it’s customary for a two or more blast) and two Oliver’s signalled a free kick .Ok at that point Trossard was facing away from Oliver but the fact he tried to pull back from the kick for me pretty much is the final proof.
As for it being a full minute past six minutes as we know it’s a minimum of 6 minuets and again as we know that added time is notified around 3 minutes before the end of the half so the way in which Arsenal were killing time for me made it a certainty that there was going to be another minute or two particularly as Arsenals second goal was scored in first half added on time
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Yeah the yellow itself is textbook, that’s not really being argued. The consistency of the rule being applied is what’s odd - especially as it seemed to be a focus this season for refs. Kick the ball away, no matter how casual you make it out to be, and you get a card.
Looking back he just let the game really get away from him. I don’t think Haaland even got a yellow (might be wrong but can’t see anything on it) for chucking the ball from point blank at the back of Gabriel’s head. I still can’t see how this current body of refs improves, they have had long enough to up the standards and should be replaced by a private group that is separate to VAR.
wait what? Did Jamie Oliver of the referees got another big game at Council House ?
If you're seeing it as a black and white, Al Capone level of corruption, obviously not, but there's levels to these things. To your point about being crazy, I'd put forward that anyone thinking Oliver's gigs in the Middle East (with probably further kick backs we don't know about and promises of more to come) don't have some bearing in his mind when reffing City are even crazier.
Dont buy the corruption angle, I'm just amazed a ref as woefully poor as him is constantly rewarded with the big games. Granted the pool of refs in the EPL is shocking, but someone as hopelessly inept as Oliver should have been sent down to officiating Sunday league games years ago.
I am.
This is very much where I’m landing.
If you look at the Kovacic fouls last year, he’s immediately indicating that he feels both Rice and Odegaard are making a meal of it. He’s doing everything he can to keep Kovacic on the pitch, despite it actually being the most difficult decision to make due to the very obviously dangerous nature of the fouls. Two horrible tackles that could have individually been straight reds somehow warranted only a yellow.
Whereas with Trossard, seeing as two players had already kicked the ball away without punishment and Trossard kicks the ball a fraction of a second after the whistle is blown, there’s plenty of latitude to not send him off. He wanted to.
No one pays to watch games to see refs make themselves the main character. I’m biased as an Arsenal fan in this case, but it’s a general annoyance. The Euros prove that it doesn’t have to be this way. I don’t know why the PL picks a new thing to ruthless (and inconsistently) enforce at the start of each season, only to forget about it a couple weeks in, but it’s annoying.
Why would you go out of your way to make your sport less entertaining? I don’t get it.
I think the final nail in the coffin for the argument that it is completely inevitable and there was no other choice was that he was the referee last weekend when Szoboszlai, on a yellow card, booted the ball away. There Oliver decided it was not a second yellow despite the fact that it was the 91st minute of the game and would have had absolutely no effect. A week later virtually the same incident occurs, except this time there's still a half to play, and this time he is forced to bring out a yellow?
How's this fraud still officiating. How many more games will he ruin by making himself the center of attention ?
I think you are well within your rights to think this. Oliver has refereeing gigs in Dubai were he gets paid by people connected to City. He consistently makes bad decisions that favour Manchester City. I don't see how someone can say that it's "crazy" to think he is corrupt. The PL and the PGMOL have not done enough to put the conspiracy to bed. There are all sorts of legit questions that can be asked of Michael Oliver's impartiality.
There is no sane world where it is okay for a referee to be getting paid by owners of a club in a league he referees in every summer for a few day's work. It's absolute madness. And it is an indictment on the likes of Sky and BBC that there is not a lot more questions about this.
To be honest the amount of stuff Haaland did off the ball he’s lucky to have not been sent off. Just because he’s strong doesn’t give him the right to bulldoze into people which he did twice off the ball.
Wonder how well a petition to remove him from their matches would do? You’d think it would gain big traction with fans of other big clubs.
I actually think this is the reason PGMOL U-turned on publishing conflicts of interest. Their so called top referees are on the payroll of City owners and if that was declared as a conflict of interest, it’s not only City’s games they are out of but also direct rivals per PGMOL guidelines. Oliver can’t referee Newcastle or Sunderland matches as things stand. If he declares his status with Man City that means he won’t be able to rereree Man United matches and any team in a title race with City putting him out of contention for basically every big match in a given season.
If they don’t like it, don’t take the money or take the money and feck off.
Unfortunately, some fans are still clinging on to the old tribalism. I hate Arsenal and their fans as much as the next guy, but I hate what City and their owners represent more.
Hand on heart how many of us United fans won't be fuming if we were in the Arsenal fans' shoes?
As bent as they come.
Aye. It's crazy that supporting a club is a declared conflict, but taking money from the owners of one club is not.
Webb is vastly out of his depth.
The way Arsenal went after that second half made it very difficult for him to manage the game. But he is rubbish most of the time anyway, and probably didn't do enough to limit Arsenal's antics still.
Particularly annoying when he seemed to make a stand against all the faking of injuries and time wasting when an Arsenal player hit the deck again while Raya had the ball, Oliver waved the play to continue (probably expecting Raya to then kick the ball out), Raya kicked it up the pitch to a city player however. Instead of showing some backbone he then stopped the game for the Arsenal player being down time wasting anyway. Pathetic.
Particularly annoying when he seemed to make a stand against all the faking of injuries and time wasting when an Arsenal player hit the deck again while Raya had the ball, Oliver waved the play to continue (probably expecting Raya to then kick the ball out), Raya kicked it up the pitch to a city player however. Instead of showing some backbone he then stopped the game for the Arsenal player being down time wasting anyway. Pathetic.
He's not just kicking the ball away. He makes a foul that in itself is yellow worthy and then also kicks the ball away right afterwards. Easy decision.
Posts that feel homophobic
They are separate actions and all PL official sources and claiming he was sent him off for delaying the restart.
If Oliver wasn't going to send him off for delaying the restart but then decided to do it because he also committed a foul that he wasn't going to send him for either, then that's terrible refereeing and against every guideline.
Arsenal fans sure know how to moan about perfectly normal decisions, trying to create a narrative.
When they restarted play after the red, Oliver blew for full time literally four seconds after the restart. That one fact indicates that when Trossard kicked the ball it was at a point where Oliver was about to blow for time anyway. If he was thinking that there was a minute or 30 seconds left when Trossard kicked the ball, he would have played another minute or 30 seconds.
I think if you've already wound up to kick and its a very loud stadium (everybody was roaring after the foul) its pretty easy in about a half second to not fully distinguish one blast from two. Again, I don't know what Trossard was thinking and overall it was a stupid play to give Oliver a decision to make. But there are multiple reasons why a good ref should give some leeway there and just blow for full time rather than making himself the main character.
Michael Oliver was refereeing this game the previous week, with Szoboszlai on a booking already. What is the principle why he should not send off Szoboszlai here (who had much more time between the whistle and the kick) but should send off Trossard? You can't just be shaking the Magic 8 Ball and handing out reds sometimes but not others. And if your'e not capable of enforcing the rule consistently, then just don't send anybody off for this kind of foolishness that isn't dangerous and has zero impact on the match.
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I third that view. He’s not corrupt