Matthijs de Ligt | Red Devil

Welcome to Manchester United.

What a signing, him and Mazraoui will definitely add quality to the defence
 
Jim Beam said:
This really puts things into perspective. Am usually not the one who argues about transfer fees unless it is a case of Maguire where I felt we absolutely broke every logic paying such an amount, but looking at de Ligt, his standing in the game, his profile, age, ability and than compare it with other transfer fees done around Europe or United of old, you have to tip your hat to the new executive team and applaud.

Now, every fee is relative. If the player is huge success, you won't ask later was he 40 or 50 with add ons. You are just happy, you have him. That is the ultimate grade and judgement of every transfer. But, on the other hand, in terms of our executive team, they deserve their praise and how shrewd they operated in their 1st ever window with so many financial constraints. Even managed to show their teeth to Madrid regarding Yoro. There are definitely reasons to be excited about United future looking at this window.
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Nicely and succinctly put reply. Thank you. I agree on all points, especially the part about assessment of the success of a transfer. No one can ever guarantee a transfer will be a success, there are simply too many uncontrollable variables in play; but when one really gets down to it and analyses the underlying high-level data that underpins the valuation of player acquisitions, it is pretty clear that United have deviated from the norm in this transfer in a very positive way. Securing more metrics of quality than the price point would typically allow.

It’s no guarantee of success, but from an up front value assessment and risk mitigation stand point (all transfers represent risk), they have vastly overachieved with this deal.
 
Morata of defenders. He is decent but does make you think: how the hell does he keep getting these big transfers?

Should help out with the defensive woes at the very least. Granted a comet doesn’t strike him down next week; given your luck…
 
Struggling to get excited about this short of being relieved that we have some numbers in the defense. Hopefully he ends up being a good signing
 
diarm said:
So the UK football media is largely made up of former players and managers, or young sports journalism upstarts looking to make their way.

A lot of the former had their careers ruined by Fergie. They felt they could’ve won stuff but weren’t good enough to play for a United side that dominated throughout their careers.

All of the latter had their childhoods ruined by Fergie, who won everything while they bitched and moaned about ref bias and time added on.

Of the few remaining, there are a couple of good pundits who are secure enough in their own skin to call the job properly, and there are a few ex United players who are just so horrendous at the job as to come across as badly as the first two groups.

The abject mismanagement of United over the past decade and a half, has helped nurture a confidence in the first two and fourth group of pundits, whereby a career can be forged in shitting on the club, while saying anything positive is seen as a risk not worth taking.

The trend of our own fans lapping up and regurgitating the negative spin has only served to legitimise such awful journalism and analysis, and in my opinion, has contributed as much to the difficulty we find in selling players, as the much documented mistakes made in contracts and wages.
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Hmm this makes sense but still seems backwards from what I’m used to, which I’m not sure means it’s a UK thing or a US thing. Generally the US wants those large fanbases happy so that they will constantly consume more of the medias content, whereas it seems the strategy in the UK has a similar end goal but the path is opposite in that it wants us pissed off and talking about the shit punditry more to give more attention to it.

Vile either way honestly, and now with the popularity of twitter it seems like everything is an “agenda” for clubs/players/managers whether good or bad.
 
RG77 said:
Morata of defenders. He is decent but does make you think: how the hell does he keep getting these big transfers?

Should help out with the defensive woes at the very least. Granted a comet doesn’t strike him down next week; given your luck…
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Well, the first one to Juve is pretty self-explanatory and this one is really not that big for a centre back of his stature. Below 40 million pounds before addons? That is not that big of a transfer these days.
 
Good signing for the price even disregarding the ETH link.

Hopefully he's coming to the age/point where he matures as a player. Don't think a lot of top fullbacks really come into their own until mid 20s onwards, as it takes until then to build up the experience/composure. So hopefully we've timed this one well. He's got all the assets needed
 
RG77 said:
Morata of defenders. He is decent but does make you think: how the hell does he keep getting these big transfers?

Should help out with the defensive woes at the very least. Granted a comet doesn’t strike him down next week; given your luck…
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Respectfully, not my assessment of him at all.

Starting out at Ajax he was seen early on as a potential generational defensive talent. A fact underlined by him becoming the first defender to win the Golden boy award and the youngest captain in Ajax’s 118 year (at the time) history. He was part of the team, as captain despite being 18, that went to the Europa final and then the CL semi-final. When he went to Juve, becoming the most expensive teenage defender of all time, there was a mad scramble for his signature amongst European heavy weights. Eventually landing at Juve courtesy of the late Mino Raiola.

At Juve, despite being 19, he was under the microscope and heavy pressure. He was brought in to play alongside - and learn from - Chiellini, who promptly tore his ACL soon after De Ligt’s arrival. Every mistake and error was magnified and he played under three different coaches in three different defensive systems across his three years there. Despite that, he won a scudetto, and in his last season there played more minutes than any other outfield player.

With Juve restructuring financially and needing to raise funds, the door was opened to a potential move and Bayern parted with big money to sign a player who was still only 22. A player who had had his highs and lows and performed well, and would only be considered a disappointment by those who had unrealistic expectations of a player so young.

At Bayern he has won a Bundesliga and made the Bundesliga team of the season during his two years there. Bayern fans, en masse, have said he is their best defender and have been hugely opposed to his sale. Going as far as to organise a petition against the impending move.

There is no doubt that Bayern aren’t selling him due to performances, they are selling him purely for financial reasons, with him being on big wages in a squad that needs reinvestment and has decent options at CB to weather his departure. It’s still not a move Bayern would want to make under normal circumstances.

And this is where United come in. They’ve been in for him since his Ajax days, and see a very unique opportunity to get a top class, and potentially world class, CB in for an incredibly reasonable fee. He addresses a need in the squad and is undoubtedly the best CB available on the market this summer.

I think it is fair to say that on face value his reputation as one of the best young defensive talents of his generation has slightly waned over the last four years. A superficial assessment aided by him losing his place in the NL side under Koeman. A fact many attribute to him being scapegoated for his red card at the last Euros and NL going out.

But when placed into the context of his circumstances at both clubs (three managers at Juve in 3 years, 2 at Bayern in 2 years), his young age at the time, the little injuries and knocks he picked up limiting game time in a couple of seasons, and the unrealistic expectations put on his shoulders because of the level he showed at 17/18; then it’s easy to see that the dimming of reputation is, as I said before, fairly superficial. When fit and given a run in the side, De Ligt has routinely been amongst his club’s top performers wherever he’s been, and is now coming to an age where you might expect a defender to start to show the sort of maturity that takes them up another level.

For context on his age, Van Dijk, at the same age had just completed his first season at Southampton and was still a year and a half away from making his transfer to Liverpool. It’s genuinely quite rare to see top, top level defensive talents under 24, because there is a certain maturity required to play the position well.

Spending big money on young defenders requires patience because they will inevitably make mistakes and those mistakes will be magnified due to the scrutiny over their fees. Just look at Stones, who was a laughing stock for ages at City, but with maturity became one of the best CBs in the league, if not Europe. Just look at the trajectory of Gabriel at Arsenal from 24 to 26. Huge leap in performance levels. It’s why William Saliba is such a freak. A genuinely world class defender at 23. It’s hard to remember other defenders besides Varane and Ferdinand, who were achieving the same performance levels at that age. I’m sure there are some, but it’s the exception, not the norm.

De Ligt turned 25 in the last couple of days.. He’s already won the league in 3 countries and made league team of the season in two. He has bucket loads of big club, big match, and champions league experience, and has all the tools to take the next step from being top class, to becoming genuinely world class. There’s no guarantee of that outcome, but in terms of explaining his transfers and the demands for his services, it’s very, very easy to see why.

I think a much more reasonable question from you wouldn’t have been “how does this guy keep getting big transfers?”, but instead “why weren’t more clubs in for him at that price?”. And the answer my friend, is that he only wanted United.

Indeed, looking at Madrid going into the new season with Nacho gone, Alaba still crocked, and only Rudiger, Militao, and Vallejo to man the ramparts, why on earth weren’t Madrid in for him at just 45m euros? Perhaps PTSD from the Yoro spanking, and not wanting to go another round? Whatever it was, he’s a player of the age, quality and profile who would’ve fit like a glove at Real.
 
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simonhch said:
Respectfully, not my assessment of him at all.

Starting out at Ajax he was seen early on as a potential generational defensive talent. A fact underlined by him becoming the first defender to win the Golden boy award and the youngest captain in Ajax’s 118 year (at the time) history. He was part of the team, as captain despite being 18, that went to the Europa final and then the CL semi-final. When he went to Juve, becoming the most expensive teenage defender of all time, there was a mad scramble for his signature amongst European heavy weights. Eventually landing at Juve courtesy of the late Mino Raiola.

At Juve, despite being 19, he was under the microscope and heavy pressure. He was brought in to play alongside - and learn from - Chiellini, who promptly tore his ACL soon after De Ligt’s arrival. Every mistake and error was magnified and he played under three different coaches in three different defensive systems across his three years there. Despite that, he won a scudetto, and in his last season there played more minutes than any other outfield player.

With Juve restructuring financially and needing to raise funds, the door was opened to a potential move and Bayern parted with big money to sign a player who was still only 22. A player who had had his highs and lows and performed well, and would only be considered a disappointment by those who had unrealistic expectations of a player so young.

At Bayern he has won a Bundesliga and made the Bundesliga team of the season during his two years there. Bayern fans, en masse, have said he is their best defender and have been hugely opposed to his sale. Going as far as to organise a petition against the impending move.

There is no doubt that Bayern aren’t selling him due to performances, they are selling him purely for financial reasons, with him being on big wages in a squad that needs reinvestment and has decent options at CB to weather his departure. It’s still not a move Bayern would want to make under normal circumstances.

And this is where United come in. They’ve been in for him since his Ajax days, and see a very unique opportunity to get a top class, and potentially world class, CB in for an incredibly reasonable fee. He addresses a need in the squad and is undoubtedly the best CB available on the market this summer.

I think it is fair to say that on face value his reputation as one of the best young defensive talents of his generation has slightly waned over the last four years. A superficial assessment aided by him losing his place in the NL side under Koeman. A fact many attribute to him being scapegoated for his red card at the last Euros and NL going out.

But when placed into the context of his circumstances at both clubs (three managers at Juve in 3 years, 2 at Bayern in 2 years), his young age at the time, the little injuries and knocks he picked up limiting game time in a couple of seasons, and the unrealistic expectations put on his shoulders because of the level he showed at 17/18; then it’s easy to see that the dimming of reputation is, as I said before, fairly superficial. When fit and given a run in the side, De Ligt has routinely been amongst his club’s top performers wherever he’s been, and is now coming to an age where you might expect a defender to start to show the sort of maturity that takes them up another level.

For context on his age, Van Dijk, at the same age had just completed his first season at Southampton and was still a year and a half away from making his transfer to Liverpool. It’s genuinely quite rare to see top, top level defensive talents under 24, because there is a certain maturity required to play the position well.

Spending big money on young defenders requires patience because they will inevitably make mistakes and those mistakes will be magnified due to the scrutiny over their fees. Just look at Stones, who was a laughing stock for ages at City, but with maturity became one of the best CBs in the league, if not Europe. Just look at the trajectory of Gabriel at Arsenal from 24 to 26. Huge leap in performance levels. It’s why William Saliba is such a freak. A genuinely world class defender at 23. It’s hard to remember other defenders besides Varane and Ferdinand, who were achieving the same performance levels at that age. I’m sure there are some, but it’s the exception, not the norm.

De Ligt turned 25 in the last couple of days.. He’s already won the league in 3 countries and made league team of the season in two. He has bucket loads of big club, big match, and champions league experience, and has all the tools to take the next step from being top class, to becoming genuinely world class. There’s no guarantee of that outcome, but in terms of explaining his transfers and the demands for his services, it’s very, very easy to see why.

I think a much more reasonable question from you wouldn’t have been “how does this guy keep getting big transfers?”, but instead “why weren’t more clubs in for him at that price?”. And the answer my friend, is that he only wanted United.

Indeed, looking at Madrid going into the new season with Nacho gone, Alaba still crocked, and only Rudiger, Militao, and Vallejo to man the ramparts, why on earth weren’t Madrid in for him at just 45m euros? Perhaps PTSD from the Yoro spanking, and not wanting to go another round? Whatever it was, he’s a player of the age, quality and profile who would’ve fit like a glove at Real.
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You are clearly glossing over all the warning signs.
 
I just can't wait to see Martinez, De Ligt and Dalot hyping each other up after blocks and tackles.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
That's just a link to his dad's business. Basically he lies there, naked, in a puddle of his own sweat with a team of handlers tying a lasso to one of his wrists and sloshing him around 360 degrees. Thanks to his stomach anchoring him in place, and the layers of gout and buttery arteries in his lower body, he reaches a perpetual spinning motion. It's at this point that a circling group of patrons lob sausages at his mouth. The winner of this game gets to scrape the crusts off of his various folds.
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Lord why?!?
 
cletus7 said:
You are clearly glossing over all the warning signs.
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Honestly, what are the warning signs?

A player that young playing for Bayern and Juventus, making limited mistakes. For me, its the same "red flags" that led people to look past Sneijder and Robben. It's not like he played badly at either Juve or Bayern.
 
Seems fans are a lot more excited about this than the miserable pundits. Really hope he does well, not just for the team's sake but just to shut a few people up.

I really haven't seen enough of him but from what i've heard my only concerns are with his pace (which people say is not that bad and he's quicker than Maguire) and how comfortable he is when pressed. Only 25 so his best years as a defender are ahead of him.
 
Thrilled that he's here, though this feels like something that would have happened several years ago if Fergie was still around
 
simonhch said:
Respectfully, not my assessment of him at all.

Starting out at Ajax he was seen early on as a potential generational defensive talent. A fact underlined by him becoming the first defender to win the Golden boy award and the youngest captain in Ajax’s 118 year (at the time) history. He was part of the team, as captain despite being 18, that went to the Europa final and then the CL semi-final. When he went to Juve, becoming the most expensive teenage defender of all time, there was a mad scramble for his signature amongst European heavy weights. Eventually landing at Juve courtesy of the late Mino Raiola.

At Juve, despite being 19, he was under the microscope and heavy pressure. He was brought in to play alongside - and learn from - Chiellini, who promptly tore his ACL soon after De Ligt’s arrival. Every mistake and error was magnified and he played under three different coaches in three different defensive systems across his three years there. Despite that, he won a scudetto, and in his last season there played more minutes than any other outfield player.

With Juve restructuring financially and needing to raise funds, the door was opened to a potential move and Bayern parted with big money to sign a player who was still only 22. A player who had had his highs and lows and performed well, and would only be considered a disappointment by those who had unrealistic expectations of a player so young.

At Bayern he has won a Bundesliga and made the Bundesliga team of the season during his two years there. Bayern fans, en masse, have said he is their best defender and have been hugely opposed to his sale. Going as far as to organise a petition against the impending move.

There is no doubt that Bayern aren’t selling him due to performances, they are selling him purely for financial reasons, with him being on big wages in a squad that needs reinvestment and has decent options at CB to weather his departure. It’s still not a move Bayern would want to make under normal circumstances.

And this is where United come in. They’ve been in for him since his Ajax days, and see a very unique opportunity to get a top class, and potentially world class, CB in for an incredibly reasonable fee. He addresses a need in the squad and is undoubtedly the best CB available on the market this summer.

I think it is fair to say that on face value his reputation as one of the best young defensive talents of his generation has slightly waned over the last four years. A superficial assessment aided by him losing his place in the NL side under Koeman. A fact many attribute to him being scapegoated for his red card at the last Euros and NL going out.

But when placed into the context of his circumstances at both clubs (three managers at Juve in 3 years, 2 at Bayern in 2 years), his young age at the time, the little injuries and knocks he picked up limiting game time in a couple of seasons, and the unrealistic expectations put on his shoulders because of the level he showed at 17/18; then it’s easy to see that the dimming of reputation is, as I said before, fairly superficial. When fit and given a run in the side, De Ligt has routinely been amongst his club’s top performers wherever he’s been, and is now coming to an age where you might expect a defender to start to show the sort of maturity that takes them up another level.

For context on his age, Van Dijk, at the same age had just completed his first season at Southampton and was still a year and a half away from making his transfer to Liverpool. It’s genuinely quite rare to see top, top level defensive talents under 24, because there is a certain maturity required to play the position well.

Spending big money on young defenders requires patience because they will inevitably make mistakes and those mistakes will be magnified due to the scrutiny over their fees. Just look at Stones, who was a laughing stock for ages at City, but with maturity became one of the best CBs in the league, if not Europe. Just look at the trajectory of Gabriel at Arsenal from 24 to 26. Huge leap in performance levels. It’s why William Saliba is such a freak. A genuinely world class defender at 23. It’s hard to remember other defenders besides Varane and Ferdinand, who were achieving the same performance levels at that age. I’m sure there are some, but it’s the exception, not the norm.

De Ligt turned 25 in the last couple of days.. He’s already won the league in 3 countries and made league team of the season in two. He has bucket loads of big club, big match, and champions league experience, and has all the tools to take the next step from being top class, to becoming genuinely world class. There’s no guarantee of that outcome, but in terms of explaining his transfers and the demands for his services, it’s very, very easy to see why.

I think a much more reasonable question from you wouldn’t have been “how does this guy keep getting big transfers?”, but instead “why weren’t more clubs in for him at that price?”. And the answer my friend, is that he only wanted United.

Indeed, looking at Madrid going into the new season with Nacho gone, Alaba still crocked, and only Rudiger, Militao, and Vallejo to man the ramparts, why on earth weren’t Madrid in for him at just 45m euros? Perhaps PTSD from the Yoro spanking, and not wanting to go another round? Whatever it was, he’s a player of the age, quality and profile who would’ve fit like a glove at Real.
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Great post sir.

I always enjoy reading your opinions and analyses on this forum.

Personally, as excited as I am with his arrival, I’ve learnt to be patient and cautious before getting my hopes up with our club and players.

He certainly brings some injury fears but hopefully he can be managed well in terms of game time and rest periods.

Pedigree and maturity wise, I’m sure he’ll be fine as he’s had the best progressive ride from a young age as you mentioned in your post.
 
Just an example of what Bayern fans are saying, this is from Reddit. Read the other threads to see their impression of him. I can see a consensus that Bayern sold him to save the wages, financial decision, not a purely football one. Basically they didn't think he was worth the wages which could be saved for other signings.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BayernMunich/s/Ic7n1hLdcB
 
Red Company said:
Great post sir.

I always enjoy reading your opinions and analyses on this forum.

Personally, as excited as I am with his arrival, I’ve learnt to be patient and cautious before getting my hopes up with our club and players.

He certainly brings some injury fears but hopefully he can be managed well in terms of game time and rest periods.

Pedigree and maturity wise, I’m sure he’ll be fine as he’s had the best progressive ride from a young age as you mentioned in your post.
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Cheimoon said:
Also, great post @simonhch.
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Thank you both for your kind words.
 
De Ligt has never had a manager for more than 1 season in his senior career. 8 years as a senior and played for 8 managers.

No wonder his development didn't go exactly as planned.
 
Turns out the after eights and birthday card were given to him by that kid in orange Madrid shirt. He was much more respectful than the people showing phones and merch in face
 


INEOS indeed did do well here, very fair deals in this market all things considered for 2 experienced and internationally capped players with European pedigree
 
simonhch said:
De Ligt turned 25 in the last couple of days.. He’s already won the league in 3 countries and made league team of the season in two. He has bucket loads of big club, big match, and champions league experience, and has all the tools to take the next step from being top class, to becoming genuinely world class. There’s no guarantee of that outcome, but in terms of explaining his transfers and the demands for his services, it’s very, very easy to see why.
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The bolded is what I think matters the most to United, he has tremendous experience for a CB that turned 25 the other day, also our manager worked with him previously, he is also a leader, nothing is guaranteed obviously but it is highly likely we have a top-quality CB on our hands, him, alongside Licha will form a solid CB pairing, Yoro deputizing for De Ligt will offer him the space to grow and improve.
 
RDCR07 said:
Introducing our new #4! Welcome to Manchester Matthijs!

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Has the eyes of Robinho when realized, signing for Manchester City.

ANyway, that is a cracking shirt. Love that off-white color (on the picture).
 
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