Yep, can't disagree with any of that. Signing him might be interesting, even if I think it's not the right time for us, but I don't see the point in loaning a young talent that is currently around the level of our forwards. We'd take the struggle without getting any of the long term benefit
Mathys Tel
- Thread starter Bojan Djordjic
- Start date
Why not, Hojlund and Zirkzee should be sold if decent offers come in the summer. We should be able to attract offers of around 40M each for them.
Indeed. Bayern would be pretty stupid to accept a loan with an option to buy over the offer of a permanent deal.
If we're really keen and Chelsea/Spurs are offering permanent deals, our only chance would be if Bayern want to keep him and we offer a loan with no option to buy.
You can always insert an option with a high value. Depending on his performance, you negociate, or pay or leave. Not really a down side to this. If it can help to bring him. And striker is the most needed position (now that Dorgu is in).
He won't come here. Certainly not if Rashford is staying.
At least have the basic decency to look up your claims before you're ridiculing yourself.
1. Musiala doesn't play winger. Not a single minute on the left wing all season, and low numbers in the seasons prior when he had to help out on a wing.
2. Coman, as mentioned, is injured for large stretches of time or is coming back from said injuries, leaving plenty of potential appearance time for Tel. Mueller doesn't even play on that wing, he's no competition for Tel's place on the left wing, and he's also been visibly declining in recent years to the point where he himself is only a sub large amounts of the time, in this and the last season especially. That he is still the preferred substitute option as CF this season ahead of Tel speaks volumes about Bayern's evaluation of the latter in that role. Sané and Gnabry have been a rollercoaster, performance-wise, in recent seasons, and are far from reliably performers. These declines in their estimated market values isn't them aging, at only 29 and 28 respectively, that's them not doing all that well anymore, and certainly not consistently. According to consistent rumours for the past few months Bayern will let Sané's contract run out this summer, despite him being ready to accept lower wages by quite some margin - doesn't quite spell "world class", does it? No matter what empty claims you make based on maybe five games that you've watched them over the years. I have the feeling you can't possible have watched more than a couple of Bayern games in the last two years, because your mental image of the players sure looks like it's 2021 for you.
3. If Tel's not even good enough to even just substitue for Kane in his, according to you, primary position, ahead of an aging player who doesn't do well as a lone CF and another player who is out of position and has never looked good at a false-9, then wtf is even the point you're arguing? If anything you're making my point for me that Bayern is clearly not seeing Tel as striker material. That's not me making any claims about Tel's quality, even if you keep trying to spin it that way for some reason, those are hard numbers showing what the club thinks about his performance.
By the way, Gnabry hasn't played as CF in this or last season at all, so much for him being competition there.
More like combined total of 40m
Nkunku I would be happy with because I think he's a quality player who is already at a really high level to impact immediately. Don't get our interest in Tel when it will be ANOTHER young striker who might not be dependable right now.
I'm worried that all of our efforts are going into the attacking positions when we are clearly struggling in midfield. I know that we have a few players right now that likely won't be here next year (Casemiro, Eriksen), so it doesn't make sense to make a signing now, but I would hope he keep funds for a big midfield signing in the summer.
I'm worried that all of our efforts are going into the attacking positions when we are clearly struggling in midfield. I know that we have a few players right now that likely won't be here next year (Casemiro, Eriksen), so it doesn't make sense to make a signing now, but I would hope he keep funds for a big midfield signing in the summer.
There’s no doubt both midfield and attack need reinforcements and the truth is that we need a few genuinely transformational players. Unless this kid is someone who can explode soon like Isak did, then I’m not sure he’s the answer.
Out of the talents we are linked with, that Quenda for RWB seems more exciting.
Best of luck getting that
I hope he does. He really surprised everyone in his first season given he was just 17 but looked really good.
He suffers from the same problem that Martial and Rashford had, whereby they are technically good, quick and mobile for a striker, so they start to get pushed out to the wing to accommodate other players. Kane coming in along with the drop in form of Bayern's wingers meant he started to get shifted to the left wing, where you could see he doesn't fit in naturally. He isn't good enough at any sort of playmaking, to be playing in the wing, so was pretty much a waste there.
Hopefully getting back into his natural striker position can mean he can find his goal scoring form again, because he showed plenty of that before. I'm not sure he has the instinct of a pure goal scoring striker but I didn't think Isak had it as well before.
Maybe he could still explode as a striker given the opportunity, after all he is only 19
Why would Rashford put him off? Rashford doesn't get a game for this club.
Well that’s a judgment the club has to ensure it gets right.
Martial‘s natural talent was on a different level to Rashford’s IMO. Would you put Tel in the same bracket when it comes to natural ability? And how is he off the ball?
Struggle to see why he’d pick us over Arsenal if it really is between us two.
He has no competition for their #9 slot there bar the Havertz experiment, while also has champions league.
We may not promise him that he’ll definitely get more regular time over Zirkzee/Hojlund as we’ll need to keep them happy to an extent.
Just don’t see this one being a go’er for us.
He has no competition for their #9 slot there bar the Havertz experiment, while also has champions league.
We may not promise him that he’ll definitely get more regular time over Zirkzee/Hojlund as we’ll need to keep them happy to an extent.
Just don’t see this one being a go’er for us.
Why do so many assume he's guaranteed to go in the summer. He still has another year on huge wages, probably more than even Saudi clubs would offer and his book value is too high for us to just give him away.
So why are so many poster making this assumption?
Well, no... we would be bringing a player in to add something to the squad for six months.
Players go on loan without an option regularly and the club taking them are never ever doing it to develop the player.
Why are Bayern open to him leaving? Thought he was meant to be one of the next huge talents
He want to leave for more opportunities.
Fair enough since he's entering a crucial stage/age in his developement as a pro
I couldn't do that if I tried
Spurs asking for a loan makes me think we might end up signing up. They were the club listed as wanting him on a permanent.
If everyone is offering loan moves and the player favours us then it might happen.
It would be nice to have an extra player in the attacking positions until the summer. As long as we don't then buy him for silly money if he scores a few goals.
If everyone is offering loan moves and the player favours us then it might happen.
It would be nice to have an extra player in the attacking positions until the summer. As long as we don't then buy him for silly money if he scores a few goals.
He had a decent spell last year as a joker where he scored a lot of goals but this year he hasn't showed much so it's hard to tell what is his real level.
We were in for him since the summer though, so clearly someone the scouting department rates.
Not really been following this one but take it this only happens if one of Rashford or Garnacho leave?
Probably Vivell.
He's mostly surplus to requirements right now, and not getting nearly as much game time as he'd understandably wants. He's third pick for both CF and LW. Bayern have had some good experiences with sending prospects out on loan, or selling them with a buyback clause, so I would not be surprised if they wanted to go that way again.
I believe Bayern made clear to the interested clubs that they won't sell him now, so everyone has to offer loan deals for now.
He definitely is a great talent but he needs to play so I think as that's something both Tel and Bayern agree on they should favour whichever team looks likely to give him the most minutes.
You will not find many 19-year-old strikers earning real playing time at that position for a club like Bayern. That he is not preferred to a club legend like Muller even in the backup role really isn't much of a mark against him.
Lewandowski was still in the Lech Posnan youth system at 19. Kane was on loan in the Championship scoring two goals for Leicester. Isak was playing on loan for a mid-table Eredivisie club. Even Haaland was just making the move from Austria to the Bundesliga at that age. And these are the very best strikers in the game right now.
This is also an argument for tempering expectations for what Tel might produce in the near term in a loan spell. He's a player almost any big club should want to sign permanently. If a loan is the only possibility, the biggest reason to loan him isn't that he'll help your fortunes very much in the near term, its that if he is bent on moving permanently in the summer then you have the upper hand in convincing him to join you, sort of like what Arsenal did with Odegaard.
Lewandowski was still in the Lech Posnan youth system at 19. Kane was on loan in the Championship scoring two goals for Leicester. Isak was playing on loan for a mid-table Eredivisie club. Even Haaland was just making the move from Austria to the Bundesliga at that age. And these are the very best strikers in the game right now.
This is also an argument for tempering expectations for what Tel might produce in the near term in a loan spell. He's a player almost any big club should want to sign permanently. If a loan is the only possibility, the biggest reason to loan him isn't that he'll help your fortunes very much in the near term, its that if he is bent on moving permanently in the summer then you have the upper hand in convincing him to join you, sort of like what Arsenal did with Odegaard.
The issue is that aged 18 he was Tuchel's "12th player" (meaning he was his preferred super-sub who reliably scored in that role).
He was less effective when he started matches, but for him Vincent Kompany replacing Tuchel was simply bad news.
While Tuchel was clearly building him up and trusting him to have an impact there is nothing like that under Kompany.
What would justify 40m even for both? I don't mind them being around and I don't dislike them either, but they haven't worked out (yet), yes?
Feels like it. We’ll probably be back in for Leon Goretzka in the summer at this rate.
That may say more about Kompany than it does about Tel.
Kompany got the Bayern job with such a thin resume. I don't know much about the situation but it would not surprise me if he decided that he could not afford to alienate any big players and therefore he would give a massively influential character like Muller a bigger role and downgrade Tel's role.
More and more reports that he favours United - Delaney even saying him coming in is not dependent on Garnacho leaving.
Sneaky feeling this one might happen - loan with £40m option in the summer would be my guess
Sneaky feeling this one might happen - loan with £40m option in the summer would be my guess
Just what I think about that as well. The Müller question is especially weird because last season he already seemed to be transitioning into kind of a "player assistant manager" role under Tuchel, just as involved in discussions on the bench as in actually playing on the field. And he continued in the same role for Germany during the Euro. So I wouldn't assume that Kompany would have alienated him if he kept it going like that.
Unlike some years ago when Kovac didn't survive benching Müller, but then Müller was still close to his prime, by now he accepts that he is ageing.
In general Kompany relies a lot on the older players, even those who already where considered to leave like Goretzka and very little on youngsters. He delivered a subpar CL season so far, exited the cup and in the league they are clearly ahead but not really better than last season at the same time (only leading the table because Leverkusen is doing worse).
So far it's calm, but there is potential for a crisis appearing very quickly.
Yep that would make sense and in that case I think it's a total toss up between us, Spurs and Arsenal. All 3 would probably have roughly the same stance about the amount of minutes he'd get for different reasons.
Unless maybe some Italian club comes in with assurances that he would start most matches.
I wouldn't put him on Martial's potential level yet, don't think he's had as much consistent time in the XI to judge that. I think his off-ball movement is fine for a striker, he isn't as one dimensional in his thinking like Hojlund where he only tries to get into the box and score but he has technical ability to come deeper if needed. That's not to say he'll lack goals because of his movement, he has had a couple of goals where he is shown good instincts to get into a goalscoring position to score (against us in the UCL last season).
Overall, he is definitely better as a striker than winger, don't think anyone would say otherwise, and I'd be really excited to see him as a potential option.