He's definitely got to improve there but Mount did come off at 60 mins and with Bruno as false 9 ahead of him. Bruno usually has the most amount of touches/passes on the pitch wherever he plays, which is the point I'm making about where we live and die by his game. Sometimes less is more. Just like when RVN left us, it's not necessarily about the individual's quality but the team dynamics. I'm not saying leaving Bruno out of the team means we will suddenly play more cohesively but we should absolutely try.
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He's definitely got to improve there but Mount did come off at 60 mins and with Bruno as false 9 ahead of him. Bruno usually has the most amount of touches/passes on the pitch wherever he plays, which is the point I'm making about where we live and die by his game. Sometimes less is more. Just like when RVN left us, it's not necessarily about the individual's quality but the team dynamics. I'm not saying leaving Bruno out of the team means we will suddenly play more cohesively but we should absolutely try.
I think if he can stay fit, really get back to top form either of the wide positions are possible for him to be first choice on.
Left and right are up for grabs. Nobody is a guaranteed starter really. Will all come down to form.
We should only try it if there’s merit to it. Mount has a lot of improving to do before he’ll be anything but backup. You can’t carry a player that does so little in midfield.
I don't rate the guy at all. Exactly the kind of player you sign if you're not trying to dominate with the ball.
I don't think you were able to comprehend my post correctly but that's not surprising.
I do wonder what Mount and Zirkzee would look like together. Perhaps slightly less chaosball than when Bruno is in the 10?
More so than the CAF reaction, I look at the media and the lack of criticism for Mount, it's astonishing. He's not some super young player, he has 36 caps for England NT and almost 150 PL appearances. We still don't know what he actually does well on the ball.My main worry is not about Mason but its actually Ten Hag's eye for talent,
Not sure why he was hell bent on bringing in mason last year as we could easily spent that 60M way better on othet top players.
Not sure why he was hell bent on bringing in mason last year as we could easily spent that 60M way better on othet top players.
I think Liverpool signed Mcallister and Szobozlai for £60m, what an awful signing.
It would be better with Casemiro, Ugarte, Zirkzee and Mainoo as the 10's.
Then you're very poor at observing, it really is that simple.
His job is not to build up attacks even if he is able to, but when you have Mainoo and Bruno, then having a third build up midfielder next to them would just decrease the efficiency of it. Take a look at his time in Chelsea and you can see what he does well on the ball. No midfielder makes 12 passes if his role is to be the build up player, there is of course a plan behind it and he has different roles than Bruno and Mainoo.
His role is to run, the problem is the painful lack of quality on the ball.
You shouldn't play for United if your only good attribute is your ability to run.
Very poor at observing what? That he lacks good, productive ability on the ball? No one is saying he has to be a creative hub, we're asking the question of what he does well on the ball? Is he finishing moves? No. Is he a creative hub for the team? No. Is he making himself available for the ball? No. Right now the only thing he's providing is really good pressing and work rate. Fred did the same while playing a lot more passes and more successful defensive actions. This is just some delusional damage control about Mount, he has been far from good enough for this club so far.
He created two chances last night through passing, and another two through pressing that won't count on the chance created statistic because it was a tackle, and not a pass. He doesn't lack quality on the ball at all, as we have seen with Chelsea time and time again. We don't need him to be on the ball so much when we already have Bruno and Mainoo who are better, so giving him the same roles as them would be completely moronic tactics. We absolutely dominated Fulham for the entire match, so if you see that there is a good balance in the team and things are looking bright, why complain about it?
Bang on.
We did not dominate Fulham for the whole match. For large stretches of the second half we were actually poor.
I've seen every game so far he's played for United and he's not shown any quality, so I pay no mind to what he did at Chelsea 3 years ago, especially when the club and the fans were happy to get rid.
As soon as we get a midfielder with legs, play him next to Casemiro and push up Mainoo where he should be, linking play in and around the box. Let Bruno be the first pressing trigger.
I think he's shown good attributes to be that backup or rotation option, which is exactly what I've been saying. The issue is whether ETH will give him that opportunity and not as a late sub or with the second team. Time will tell.
You are absolutely correct, Fulham started dominating once Mount was subbed out. Which kind of explains how important his off the ball work really is for the team's balance. It's not to say that he shouldn't do more, he definitely needs to do more and impose himself on the game, but he doesn't just run and work hard, he is a very intelligent footballer who lead the press exceptionally well and knows when to press and when not to.
And you're wrong about the Chelsea fans being happy to see him go. Ask the Chelsea fans on here and see what they say.
But a lot of the fans were not at all happy to get rid.
I disagree. He's too far forward and too invisible when we have the ball. He should time his runs so he arrives late in the box for deeper balls that are hard to mark
He does run and press quite well, we did have some success with it last night. But when we have the ball he should do a lot like Zirkzee's goal, be in a deeper space and call for the ball find a pass and then make a late run into the box. He's also a good ball winner. He doesnt often win the ball in defence because hes playing too high up, but in midfield and attacking areas he wins the ball a lot helping our midfielders. If he does everything from 10 yards deeper he'll be far more effective for us
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Productive ability on the ball - he created at least two good chances from his pass (Mainoo + Casemiro)
Finishing moves - Came close to finishing one move that game (based on his PL career 28 goals and 23 assists in 10363 mins goal or assist every ~200mins) so capable of doing so
Making himself available - He absolutely is and if you disagree you need to rewatch his 60 mins and focus on where he is positioned (usually splits the midfield and drops in a hole between them) unfortunately if you can’t see this then this is either you not wanting to (bias) or you don’t understand positioning (competence).
Mount as we’ve seen of him hasn’t been worth £55m because well we haven’t seen him. I don’t think we should have paid so much for someone with 1 year left but we did and Mount isn’t responsible for that. So I look at his profile and say does any other player in our team do what he does better and the answer is a clear no. You may not value what he does and that is your opinion but it doesn’t mean what he does isn’t incredibly valuable in a team looking to take advantage of attacking transition and press higher up a football pitch.
Whether that is worth £55m is completely irrelevant now. If it helps us perform better as a team then he’s worth having in the squad.
You know fans are scrapping the barrel when they start trotting single attribute and magnifying its impact more than they should.
I keep reading how he's a great presser, but you don't pay 55 million pounds for that. I'm sure we could pick up a decent midfield presser from a lesser league for 10% of that price - ignoring the millions he costs in wages per year.
It was the same two seasons ago when the usuals (probably the exact same posters creaming over Mount's 'press') got off to Antony's 'ball carrying', 'press resistance' and 'ability to hold the width'.
The standards have fallen so much!
I keep reading how he's a great presser, but you don't pay 55 million pounds for that. I'm sure we could pick up a decent midfield presser from a lesser league for 10% of that price - ignoring the millions he costs in wages per year.
It was the same two seasons ago when the usuals (probably the exact same posters creaming over Mount's 'press') got off to Antony's 'ball carrying', 'press resistance' and 'ability to hold the width'.
The standards have fallen so much!
The praise for the simplest sideway passes for shots outside the penalty area is when you know how little he really did.
United can't have an attacking midfielder who gets on the ball as little as he did last night. 27 touches/11 completed passes/10 possession losses, that's not a good performance anyway we spin it.
That's actually horrible statistics - granted it didn't look like he lost it so much seeing it live. I suppose when he doesn't get on the ball enough, it is easy to forget how many times he loses it. My theory is that players who run their socks off like he did yesterday do that to overcompensate for their lack of ability on the ball, we saw It with Lingard, fans love a trier so that would be enough for some.
I don't like picking on our players, but this transfer (even more so than Antony's) is one I will always concluded was totally unreasonable, and highlights how lacking in foresight we are as a club, at least until Ineos came in.
Now, if by some miracle he does come good, even then he won't be a significant creative force in the team - he's a tier, maybe two, below Bruno even at his best. And long term, I see us actually playing with a more cultured midfield three when Bruno leaves, which again discounts Mount.
This is some hilariously defensive and false bigging up of what Mount actually did yesterday. "Created at least two good chances", are we talking about those two outside the box shots which were actually not good chances?
"Came close to finishing one move", yes you mean the one good chance he messed up with poor finishing. I don't care about his past record, not that he was a special player before he got here anyway. I've watched him play for Chelsea and England, never rated him and didn't want him here.
If he makes himself so available, why are his touches and passes so low then, compared to everyone else? It just doesn't compute. You can also see him, he prefers to make runs rather than show up for the ball and link up. Maybe its instructions but either way he's not doing a great job of making himself available.
Forget the £55m fee, which he's not even worth half of at this moment, I'm questioning whether he's good enough for our club, irrespective of the transfer fee. From what I see, he's a backup player at best, someone you bring on off the bench. He was certainly better for Chelsea but that is irrelevant at the moment, and even that player, I'm not sure if he was ever good enough.
ThisMounts 2 'chance creating moments' were short backpasses for 0.02 xG shots from outside the box.
Mount offered nothing in that false 9/press leader role that we haven't already seen better from McTominay. See the FA cup final. And he can play that role while also offering an actual goal threat.
And I don't like McTominay at all but at least he's a bigger goal threat and makes more effective runs into the box.A nothing player. Very Tom Cleverley in how he runs around a lot and looks tidy without really doing anything. Just a shocking signing, our second worst ever behind Antony maybe.
Hopefully with the new recruitment team he will be the last huge transfer blunder we make.
Hopefully with the new recruitment team he will be the last huge transfer blunder we make.
Eh. I'll give him till December to show us something. Not writing him off just yet.
A few nice moments, but all in the unusual context of us not actually having a striker, so we can fit Mount & Bruno in, with a 2 man midfield combo behind them.
With a striker back in the lineup, it's very difficult to see where he features regularly, as it'd be carnage to field Mainoo, Mount and Bruno as a 3, and you don't really want him out wide as he's not the pace threat of the other options.
A difficult one really and smacks of Ten Hag trying to copy City's 1 defensive guy and 2 attacking mids approach, without us having the Rodri level player and intense keep ball style to make it work
With a striker back in the lineup, it's very difficult to see where he features regularly, as it'd be carnage to field Mainoo, Mount and Bruno as a 3, and you don't really want him out wide as he's not the pace threat of the other options.
A difficult one really and smacks of Ten Hag trying to copy City's 1 defensive guy and 2 attacking mids approach, without us having the Rodri level player and intense keep ball style to make it work
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A clear shot on the edge of the box in a central position is a decent opportunity to have created.This is some hilariously defensive and false bigging up of what Mount actually did yesterday. "Created at least two good chances", are we talking about those two outside the box shots which were actually not good chances?
"Came close to finishing one move", yes you mean the one good chance he messed up with poor finishing. I don't care about his past record, not that he was a special player before he got here anyway. I've watched him play for Chelsea and England, never rated him and didn't want him here.
If he makes himself so available, why are his touches and passes so low then, compared to everyone else? It just doesn't compute. You can also see him, he prefers to make runs rather than show up for the ball and link up. Maybe its instructions but either way he's not doing a great job of making himself available.
Forget the £55m fee, which he's not even worth half of at this moment, I'm questioning whether he's good enough for our club, irrespective of the transfer fee. From what I see, he's a backup player at best, someone you bring on off the bench. He was certainly better for Chelsea but that is irrelevant at the moment, and even that player, I'm not sure if he was ever good enough.
He was there positioned to have the chance.
He has shown numerous times for the ball between the lines not just making runs. I don’t think you’re actually watching him. If you were you’d see it. Again unless you a) hold a bias or b) don’t understand positioning.
What is wrong with Mount being someone who enables our press to work? Enables us to press high and create chances through those high turnovers/ limit our opponents chances of building up effectively?
The bold is why I’m not now going to bother with you anymore. You’ve got a strong bias and I don’t believe you’d listen even if shown the above points in more detail. So we’ll agree to disagree.
He is shite, that much is obvious. We needed a different profile of midfielder last season and we bought this
I like Mount as a backup for Bruno, but we’re rarely ever ahead far enough to sub off Bruno, and of course Bruno is always fit.
In retrospect it was clearly a daft signing but here we are. If we can start beating clubs like Fulham 3-0 instead of 1-0 we can bring on Mount for Bruno in the 70th and allow him the rest he needs to be in peak form for the hard matches in March, April and May.
In retrospect it was clearly a daft signing but here we are. If we can start beating clubs like Fulham 3-0 instead of 1-0 we can bring on Mount for Bruno in the 70th and allow him the rest he needs to be in peak form for the hard matches in March, April and May.
only current United player I can’t make my mind on
Our fans standards are in the gutter honestly.Mounts 2 'chance creating moments' were short backpasses for 0.02 xG shots from outside the box.
They only focus on the few positive contributions a player makes within a game and don't expect anything more than being involved in a couple of moments, and they ignore all the bad bits of play within a game as if the bad moments don't contribute to our overall level as a team and our league position.
These are professional footballers, across a game all players will make a couple of decent touches, a couple of good passes, a couple of tackles. That performance from an attacking midfielder is just not enough.
I wouldn't judge Mount too harshly on this game but the issue is that many fans predicted this when we were first linked to him in the summer transfer window. He's a player who barely has any touches of the ball compared to other midfielders of his ilk. It was an inefficient use of our funds at the time as he's not a player who should ever really partner Bruno in a midfield 3.
Even per XG, its not a good goal scoring opportunity. And I'm sorry but you don't get plus points for missing a good chance, which he did. Again, answer my question, if he's showing himself numerous times for the ball, why are his touches and passes so low? Its not like the guy can carry the ball either and we had 55% possession in the game.
Antony can also press and work hard for the team, standards have to be higher than that.
"You’ve got a strong bias"
The irony here. I'd be happy to be proven wrong and see Mount perform at a good level for this club but if he's validating my low opinion of him, that's on his performance level, not me.
He wasn't...not sure how many times this story needs telling....Mount was essentially a third choice club signing.
"Ten Hag’s influence on United’s transfer business is clear and INEOS wants to reduce his role, aiming to appoint a head of recruitment. But Ten Hag has missed out on key players for his style. He still speaks to people about the evolution that would have been possible with Frenkie de Jong on board, believing there was a chance early on in his first summer to strike a deal with Barcelona and convince the player to join.
As an alternative option, Ten Hag liked Declan Rice, who was very interested in joining, but Casemiro was seen as more attainable by the club. Last summer, Ten Hag pushed again for Rice, judging his blend of physicality, quality and mentality to be the right mix to elevate United’s foundation. Again, several players agreed with their manager, but United were way behind Arsenal and even Manchester City in the pursuit.
United eventually made contact with West Ham, but it came across as a token gesture, which was dismissed. Instead, the club pressed ahead with signing Mount" - The Athletic
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He definitely helps off the ball with his high energy and pressing.
I feel we need to play him into form or it's never going to happen here.
It's a long season and he has a role to play. We should look to sell next summer if he doesn't show marked improvement when the team has possession.
What does an in form Mount look like, though?
Tbh, I was super impressed by him when I watched him live in the preseason game against Liverpool.