Depending on what you read we’ve either signed an amazing destroyer who’s just what we need, or the Latin Lee Cattermole.
Manuel Ugarte | Signs for United
- Thread starter RDCR07
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Why would it be concerning that a manager isn't fussed on a signing?
I'd like to think the man who picks the team and has a plan for how his team plays would be confident in all his players to fulfill their roles. That may just be me, mind.
Reads a bit too close to Bezos though.
I do believe you just made up that he "isn't fussed on a signing."
The man who picks the team and has a plan for how the team plays was convinced on review of Ugarte's ball-winning capabilities, guided by the recruitment team that has been put into place.
I'd like to think that collaboration and open-mindedness are conducive to a good working atmosphere. That may just be me, mind.
During the whole saga I kept thinking he is a ETH signing, and our next manager who might value ball playing midfielder, might not like him(like what happened at PSG).
Now it turns out Ten Hag didnt want him either. Oh noes
Him being a recruitment/data team signing makes sense, and hopefully that's exactly why it should work out.
Very nice signing. Hope this means our days of having an open highway through the middle of the park are over.
Seen a few people say he can’t pass! What you smoking? He’s a good passer of the ball. Says you’ve never seen him play without saying you’ve never seen him play.
Other than the fact it's been reported that he needed convincing you mean.
Nobody disputed your bottom paragraph, but nice try.
Saw the champions league matches back recently and he looked sloppy with the ball to be honest.
Let's see.
Needing convincing and not being fussed are entirely different things.
Good work ignoring everything else just to fixate on your own error of false equivalence though. You rarely see that.
I agree with this.
Moving on to a model that allows the recruitment team to do the heavy lifting in scouting players and finding a suitable target, means the manager will not be involved in the initial process of target selection, and once the targets are identified, the manager will look into them and see if he likes them, I would expect the recruitment team to make sure the targets they pick will be of a profile that the manager would want, so the story about EtH needing to be convinced about a player is as normal as it gets, the story goes that Klopp needed convincing about signing Salah.
Exactly, that's how things are supposed to work.
You're being fussy over fuss, when fuss has nothing to do with it. I won't be fussing with you I'm afraid.
Not to butt into the conversation but whats the issue if a manager needs to be convinced about a player identified but the club? I think it's normal since the recruitment team and EtH are supposed to work togther in that area and Ashworth said he would not bring a player the manager does not want, so in this case Ugarte would not be here against EtH wishes.
All of our signings this summer seems to have been pursued by the new structure and not EtH requests. Even MDL & NM - even though they’ve played under him before, in one of EtH’s interviews during pre season he said they were recommended to him by the new structure and he said yes (of course!). Hence I think if we were able to get Branthwaite at a reasonable price, we wouldn’t have signed MDL.During the whole saga I kept thinking he is a ETH signing, and our next manager who might value ball playing midfielder, might not like him(like what happened at PSG).
Now it turns out Ten Hag didnt want him either. Oh noes
Him being a recruitment/data team signing makes sense, and hopefully that's exactly why it should work out.
I may very well be making a fuss over nothing of course. I would rather my manager understand from the off that Ugarte was a better option than McTominay and Amrabat.
"Ten Hag was cooler on Ugarte, partly because his arrival was always likely to necessitate the sale of Scott McTominay
The United manager was also still open to signing Sofyan Amrabat on a permanent basis after impressing at the end of last season as a holding midfielder, particularly in the FA Cup final. A deal was still possible despite the expiry of United’s option to buy as part of his loan from Fiorentina"
I just don't like the above. But the below paragraph is far more encouraging, in terms of collaboration.
But Ten Hag was brought around to Ugarte in meetings with the other members of the recruitment structure, where he was shown video clips of the 23-year-old’s performances and came to appreciate his ball-winning ability and qualities out of possession.
I'll get the stick for this but I really think it's hurting us that ETH has so much say in transfers. But then again, now he has no excuses not to deliver results.
I see what you mean, he had his preferences perhaps but was convinced of better options which is how it supposed to work, a manager isn't a good judge of player ability/suitability, Pep made a mess when he arrived first to City and in his second season onwards, most of the players signed were club signings, Klopp needed convincing about Salah, it's normal for a manager to have a preference for players he knows and the job of a competent DoF is to convince the manager otherwise
During the whole saga I kept thinking he is a ETH signing, and our next manager who might value ball playing midfielder, might not like him(like what happened at PSG).
Now it turns out Ten Hag didnt want him either. Oh noes
Him being a recruitment/data team signing makes sense, and hopefully that's exactly why it should work out.
There is no evidence of Ten Hag not wanting him, the article said that he preferred to keep McTominay or sign Amarabat and he needed to be convinced about Ugarte which is normal I think.
And I agree with your last paragraph, I really hope the model works were a player is targetted by the recruitment team who have the capability of scouting a player and gathering all necessary evidence why a player should be signed, the manager/head coach does not have the time to do all that scouting work/review/analysis so obviously if a player is targetted then he should be convinced about it.
We arent going to get anymore evidence than we got. Its pretty obvious from reading between the lines that Ten Hag wanted Amrabat+McTominay over Ugarte. But was vetoed(thankfully).
I get that but my point is that the whole thing is normal (EtH wanting his preferred players vs the club bringing in other options) and I am not saying EtH is right in wanting to keep Scott and singing Amarabat I am saying it's just normal and it's good thing that we don't sign players because a manager wants them, that's all
Ofcourse it is, its how most top clubs operate. ETH shouldnt be given carte blanche.
Couldn't agree more
I would have preferred a signing that was proposed or at least fully backed by a manager but hopefully he can win ETH over with his performances.
ten Hag is supposed to have been won over already, which is why Ugarte signed. I would argue that a signing proposed by those whose job it is to spot players and evaluate their suitability for the club is just as good as one proposed by the manager.
Like Antony?
The thing is, this is a football structure in action. It’s not a managers job to know about the thousands of professional footballers throughout the world. If the scouts, DOF and co identify a player it’s their job to recognise their talent and potential and convince the manager they’re the right player to add to their squad.
It seems like that has happened here. Good.
He’s got a nice pass in him though for sure.
And Klopp needed convincing about signing Salah.
You people really need to stop overanalyzing every little tidbit of information.
You people really need to stop overanalyzing every little tidbit of information.
I'm hoping his mobility negates Bruno consistently giving the ball away and allowing teams to turn us over, we've needed someone who can screen effectively and get around the pitch quickly for a while.
I agree. They should have went for Alvarez like you suggested. Hopefully next summer we can take on your suggestions and get in Alvarez and Tagliafico so that we won't end up with more deadwood signings like Ugarte who wasn't wanted by the manager.
haven't really seen him play, but the Telegraph had this chart yesterday:
interesting. Feel that's the right profile next to Mainoo, but you never know until you see it in action.
interesting. Feel that's the right profile next to Mainoo, but you never know until you see it in action.
that's not the most encouraging thing simply b/c the manager didn't back the move initially and had to be convinced....so if things go wrong or he has a poor game or two, he'll sit him and blame the bosses for the signing
haven't really seen him play, but the Telegraph had this chart yesterday:
interesting. Feel that's the right profile next to Mainoo, but you never know until you see it in action.
The similarity with Kante is VERY exciting.
Wasn’t he an ETH signing?
I'm glad he's not a Ten Hag-sanctioned signing.
It means he'll probably be a decent player!
It means he'll probably be a decent player!
Supposedly proposed by the recruitment team.
Like him already
Especially given he's only 23, you're talking about having potentially a young Kante for years.
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