Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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Having read up on him and watched some clips, I've come to the conclusion that's he's basically another Fred, who I was a big fan of.

Like Fred, Ugarte's best work happens off the ball, where he can use his dynamism and endless energy to press high up the pitch.

It's for that reason I believe Fred was better as an 8, as he had the licence to press further forward without overly thinking too much about what was behind him.

I always go back to that Sours game, where we won 2-0. To this day, I believe that was the best game we've had under ten Hag in terms of domination throughout the whole game. A midfield of Casemiro, Fred and Bruno.

Fast forward a couple of years and we're strongly linked with Ugarte, who, as I said before, shares similar attributes to Fred. My worry, as with Fred at the time, would be vacating the 6 position and leaving us vulnerable.

Having said that, with ten Hag seemingly keen on us playing a man to man press, winning the ball high up the pitch and transitioning quickly, a player like Ugarte would be ideal. It's for the same reason ten Hag brought Mount. Although the aforementioned players aren't the most creative on the ball, they'll run the hard miles, which in turn will hopefully allow us to dominate games more. So often last season we started well and often phased out due to tiredness.

I still maintain we need a deep-lying playmaker type but the potential transfer of Ugarte makes sense based on the way ten Hag currently sets up his team.

Actually, a Mainoo/Ugarte pivot would be quite reminiscent of De Jong/Schone.

Neither De Jong nor Schone were holding midfielders. Actually, the two dovetailed quite nicely, with De Jong more often than not, responsible for dropping into the back line and progressing the ball, usually with a dribble. With Mainoo capable of doing the same thing, I'm hoping ten Hag will set up in a similar way next season.
 
Solid squad option and would be happy to have him but for 60m it's too much and I wouldn't be gutted if we walked away. We really need to start getting some outgoings over the line now to have a better idea of available funds. We are desperate for some energy and legs in midfield and this guy is the mad bastard we need. We've been crying out for this profile of player for years.
 
Having read up on him and watched some clips, I've come to the conclusion that's he's basically another Fred, who I was a big fan of.

Like Fred, Ugarte's best work happens off the ball, where he can use his dynamism and endless energy to press high up the pitch.

It's for that reason I believe Fred was better as an 8, as he had the licence to press further forward without overly thinking too much about what was behind him.

I always go back to that Sours game, where we won 2-0. To this day, I believe that was the best game we've had under ten Hag in terms of domination throughout the whole game. A midfield of Casemiro, Fred and Bruno.

Fast forward a couple of years and we're strongly linked with Ugarte, who, as I said before, shares similar attributes to Fred. My worry, as with Fred at the time, would be vacating the 6 position and leaving us vulnerable.

Having said that, with ten Hag seemingly keen on us playing a man to man press, winning the ball high up the pitch and transitioning quickly, a player like Ugarte would be ideal. It's for the same reason ten Hag brought Mount. Although the aforementioned players aren't the most creative on the ball, they'll run the hard miles, which in turn will hopefully allow us to dominate games more. So often last season we started well and often phased out due to tiredness.

I still maintain we need a deep-lying playmaker type but the potential transfer of Ugarte makes sense based on the way ten Hag currently sets up his team.

Actually, a Mainoo/Ugarte pivot would be quite reminiscent of De Jong/Schone.

Neither De Jong nor Schone were holding midfielders. Actually, the two dovetailed quite nicely, with De Jong more often than not, responsible for dropping into the back line and progressing the ball, usually with a dribble. With Mainoo capable of doing the same thing, I'm hoping ten Hag will set up in a similar way next season.
Agree with a lot of this, especially the off the ball stuff.
 
Solid squad option and would be happy to have him but for 60m it's too much and I wouldn't be gutted if we walked away. We really need to start getting some outgoings over the line now to have a better idea of available funds. We are desperate for some energy and legs in midfield and this guy is the mad bastard we need. We've been crying out for this profile of player for years.
60M? We're talking about 35-40M here tops. He moved for 60M last year to PSG and Luis Enrique doesn't want him, they want to sell him. PSG already has Fabian Ruiz, Vitinha, Zaire Emery and are looking to sign Neves. If the price is anything above 40M we should walk away. He's mainly a destructor, I get why were interested but for a midfielder to go for 60M you need way more than that.
 
Fan from Uruguay here. I wanted to get my opinion on Ugarte.

Ugarte is a quality player without a doubt, very good defensively and while hes not a creative specialist, hes more than decent on ball. He even played more avanced positions early in his carreer, hes not a límited player at all.

Also hes a winner, determined and very smart player. I think United has been missing a player like him for a long time and hes going to improve the team.

For that price tag hes for sure a solid bet.

PSG is a mess and Luis Enrique is a fundamentalist coach who only looks at possesion based offense, it wasnt a good place for him. Hes a great fit in Ten Hag high pressing, more direct style, just like Bielsa in our national team.

Great to hear! I think he is a very good CDM to have similar to Keane style rather than Carrick. He allows all the other more attacking midfielders the freedom to attack. I love Keane's style of play to bits during his time.
 
If we had a Modric/Scholes/Kroos type playmaker, hell even Eriksen in his prime...we wouldnt really be asking for a do it all DM. We need a DLP type DM because our other 2 midfielders arent necessarily great on the ball(Mainoo exception).

If we can get a CM in who is a proper ball player eventually(This season or next), I would be fine with a more destroyer type DM like Ugarte.

Who is that DLP type DM attainable,will admit the midfield situation feels a real concern right now
 
For those who have watched more of him - why is he a better fit for us than someone like Onana?
One thing I have noticed that will make Ugarte a better player for us is that he is much better as a volume passer. I've actually seen Onana pull off a few really nice passes, but I think for our midfield, we need a player capable of playing 75/80 or 90/100 passes in a game and I think Ugarte is better in that sense.

A lot of people want us to be a team that dominates the ball and that is one thing that will help us. Onana, Mainoo and Bruno midfield would be more exciting but would have very average ball security.
 
One thing I have noticed that will make Ugarte a better player for us is that he is much better as a volume passer. I've actually seen Onana pull off a few really nice passes, but I think for our midfield, we need a player capable of playing 75/80 or 90/100 passes in a game and I think Ugarte is better in that sense.

A lot of people want us to be a team that dominates the ball and that is one thing that will help us. Onana, Mainoo and Bruno midfield would be more exciting but would have very average ball security.

Should we worry about his lack of forward passes @ArcherfromtheNorth
 
Having read up on him and watched some clips, I've come to the conclusion that's he's basically another Fred, who I was a big fan of.

Like Fred, Ugarte's best work happens off the ball, where he can use his dynamism and endless energy to press high up the pitch.

It's for that reason I believe Fred was better as an 8, as he had the licence to press further forward without overly thinking too much about what was behind him.
I'm not sure about this. Fred was a real jack of all trades type players. He didn't really have great defensive stats, didn't have great passing, didn't have great dribbling, and his shooting was frankly poor. But he did have energy that made him effective, and in general was a very odd player who could look good one minute and like he'd never played football the next minute.

Ugarte at least appears to be a defensive specialist when it comes to putting up defensive actions - you won't find many better in terms of tackling and interceptions. Fred's passing was also very sloppy, whereas Ugarte keeps the ball, though that could be because he's overly safe. Ugarte is also more physically imposing than Fred.

Ugarte's major weakness is he doesn't pass the ball forward.

Ultimately, I think we're just going to have to sign multiple players to cover the qualities we need in midfield. We need to find that high volume, reliable forward passer midfielder elsewhere.

What we can't do is continue having players who have quite severe physical or technical deficiencies. That is, technically poor players like Mctominay and Fred. Or players who can't run, cover ground and are painfully slow - like Casemiro and Eriksen.

I can forgive Ugarte for being a safe passer, as long as he's reliable keeping possession of the ball.
 
I'm not sure about this. Fred was a real jack of all trades type players. He didn't really have great defensive stats, didn't have great passing, didn't have great dribbling, and his shooting was frankly poor. But he did have energy that made him effective, and in general was a very odd player who could look good one minute and like he'd never played football the next minute.

Ugarte at least appears to be a defensive specialist when it comes to putting up defensive actions - you won't find many better in terms of tackling and interceptions. Fred's passing was also very sloppy, whereas Ugarte keeps the ball, though that could be because he's overly safe. Ugarte is also more physically imposing than Fred.

Ugarte's major weakness is he doesn't pass the ball forward.

Ultimately, I think we're just going to have to sign multiple players to cover the qualities we need in midfield. We need to find that high volume, reliable forward passer midfielder elsewhere.

What we can't do is continue having players who have quite severe physical or technical deficiencies. That is, technically poor players like Mctominay and Fred. Or players who can't run, cover ground and are painfully slow - like Casemiro and Eriksen.

I can forgive Ugarte for being a safe passer, as long as he's reliable keeping possession of the ball.

Frustrating as it is think we will have to wait until next summer for that high volume forward passer
 
Should we worry about his lack of forward passes @ArcherfromtheNorth
If Shaw and Martinez stay fit, our backline would be something like Shaw-Licha-Yoro-Dalot. All of them including Onana are well capable of delivering a good pass upfield. If he just wins the ball and cuts out any attacks for us then makes a simple pass to our backline, that’s good enough. Provided our players don’t keep dropping like flies this season of course.
 
Should we worry about his lack of forward passes @ArcherfromtheNorth
Thats clearly his weakness. You need more creative players alongside him if you want to be a dominant team like United its supposed to be.

Hes more a Kante than a Rodri.

That being sayed, he understands the game very well and is secure with the ball. I dont think there is many players elite defensively while being good and funcional on ball like him.

Also hes determined, has good leadership and intangibles unlike players like Pogba, Lukaku, Antony, Sancho and many star signigns made by United that have been busts. Signing Ugarte would be a nice starting point to change the losing culture.
 
There is lot of noise on how his style doesn't suit to the progressive play OR he is a limited player on ball etc.
Hope we dont end up with him like another player not good for us after signing but still have them for years.
 
Reading the thread (and the forum) I get the impression -perhaps unfounded- that a lot of people expect we can find a #6 that is both a defensive beast but also a great passer and possibly a DLP... That or playing a double pivot with 2 #8 ?

I'm not saying such a complete player doesn't exist but they're pretty rare and seems out of the price range we're looking for. We desperately need muscle, grit and a ball winner covering the defense.
 
Reading the thread (and the forum) I get the impression -perhaps unfounded- that a lot of people expect we can find a #6 that is both a defensive beast but also a great passer and possibly a DLP... That or playing a double pivot with 2 #8 ?

I'm not saying such a complete player doesn't exist but they're pretty rare and seems out of the price range we're looking for. We desperately need muscle, grit and a ball winner covering the defense.
This does seem to be the case and I think we all would want that, but we should also be mindful we don't pay over the odds for a player that doesn't bring enough to the midfield for his price tag. Ugarte should be bought through that lens, because we would need a progressive passer as well, so can't spunk all the budget on him.
 
I would say Camavinga is defo better.

Better, I would agree generally...but at what?

If we have a chance sign Camavinga, don't get me wrong, it's an opportunity we would have to take, but from a squad building perspective, Tchouaméni is the perfect signing for us, and a much more needed one than the former would be.

X better than Y thinking leads nowhere
 
Better, I would agree generally...but at what?

If we have a chance sign Camavinga, don't get me wrong, it's an opportunity we would have to take, but from a squad building perspective, Tchouaméni is the perfect signing for us, and a much more needed one than the former would be.

X better than Y thinking leads nowhere
I think Camavinga is better at passing the ball around while shielding the defence, which is what we need, someone to keep the ball moving.
 
Camavigna isnt nearly the defensive presence Ugarte is.

Sexier name on paper for sure but I think United desesperatly needs a different type of player.
 
Solid squad option and would be happy to have him but for 60m it's too much and I wouldn't be gutted if we walked away. We really need to start getting some outgoings over the line now to have a better idea of available funds. We are desperate for some energy and legs in midfield and this guy is the mad bastard we need. We've been crying out for this profile of player for years.

Squad option? He's better than any other DM we have and have had since Carrick.
 
I think Camavinga is better at passing the ball around while shielding the defence, which is what we need, someone to keep the ball moving.

I don't see Mainoo-Camavinga working behind Fernandes together as well in a double-pivot, as Mainoo-Tchouaméni would, considering everything.

In fact, somehow obtaining the latter would be the best possible solution for United at the #6 position. Also the best possible answer to Rice and Rodri...but it's just so unlikely it's barely worth theorising over the player.
 
I am really not a fan of these "destroyers" type of midfielders. I would rather prefer that we find (easy said than done but that is why we have scouts) dmc who is also creative. Dmc like Carrick, Brozovic, Xabi Alonso, Rodri....
DMC destroyer can work in midfield 3 when one midfielder is typical playmaker like Kroos, Modric, Eriksen (in his prime) or Iniesta.

Our midfield will just suffer again. We will have destroyer, no 10 and Mainoo who is awesome but who is not a playmaker.
 
I am really not a fan of these "destroyers" type of midfielders. I would rather prefer that we find (easy said than done but that is why we have scouts) dmc who is also creative. Dmc like Carrick, Brozovic, Xabi Alonso, Rodri....
DMC destroyer can work in midfield 3 when one midfielder is typical playmaker like Kroos, Modric, Eriksen (in his prime) or Iniesta.

Our midfield will just suffer again. We will have destroyer, no 10 and Mainoo who is awesome but who is not a playmaker.

Bruno ? Mount?
 
Having read up on him and watched some clips, I've come to the conclusion that's he's basically another Fred, who I was a big fan of.

Like Fred, Ugarte's best work happens off the ball, where he can use his dynamism and endless energy to press high up the pitch.

It's for that reason I believe Fred was better as an 8, as he had the licence to press further forward without overly thinking too much about what was behind him.

I always go back to that Sours game, where we won 2-0. To this day, I believe that was the best game we've had under ten Hag in terms of domination throughout the whole game. A midfield of Casemiro, Fred and Bruno.

Fast forward a couple of years and we're strongly linked with Ugarte, who, as I said before, shares similar attributes to Fred. My worry, as with Fred at the time, would be vacating the 6 position and leaving us vulnerable.

Having said that, with ten Hag seemingly keen on us playing a man to man press, winning the ball high up the pitch and transitioning quickly, a player like Ugarte would be ideal. It's for the same reason ten Hag brought Mount. Although the aforementioned players aren't the most creative on the ball, they'll run the hard miles, which in turn will hopefully allow us to dominate games more. So often last season we started well and often phased out due to tiredness.

I still maintain we need a deep-lying playmaker type but the potential transfer of Ugarte makes sense based on the way ten Hag currently sets up his team.

Actually, a Mainoo/Ugarte pivot would be quite reminiscent of De Jong/Schone.

Neither De Jong nor Schone were holding midfielders. Actually, the two dovetailed quite nicely, with De Jong more often than not, responsible for dropping into the back line and progressing the ball, usually with a dribble. With Mainoo capable of doing the same thing, I'm hoping ten Hag will set up in a similar way next season.

Sounds like we should have kept the pastor instead. I think there might be quite a few posters who would agree with me that we would not have done so badly this year if we had kept Fred instead of offloading him.
 
Sounds like we should have kept the pastor instead. I think there might be quite a few posters who would agree with me that we would not have done so badly this year if we had kept Fred instead of offloading him.

Agreed, in hindsight, I'd have taken an inconsistent Fred to not having him at all. Hopefully Ugarte is a better passer than Fred though.
 
I am really not a fan of these "destroyers" type of midfielders. I would rather prefer that we find (easy said than done but that is why we have scouts) dmc who is also creative. Dmc like Carrick, Brozovic, Xabi Alonso, Rodri....
DMC destroyer can work in midfield 3 when one midfielder is typical playmaker like Kroos, Modric, Eriksen (in his prime) or Iniesta.

Our midfield will just suffer again. We will have destroyer, no 10 and Mainoo who is awesome but who is not a playmaker.
These types are so rare and the most sought after in the world now, it’s why you see the likes of Enzo/Caicedo/Rice going for north of 100m, and none of those are as complete as Rodri. Most teams have to settle for getting the Rodri mix of passing ability, physicality and defensive nous through a combination of 2/3 players in midfield.
 
These types are so rare and the most sought after in the world now, it’s why you see the likes of Enzo/Caicedo/Rice going for north of 100m, and none of those are as complete as Rodri. Most teams have to settle for getting the Rodri mix of passing ability, physicality and defensive nous through a combination of 2/3 players in midfield.
Does make me wonder how much Carrick go for in today's market, considering Rice went for 100M. I stand by my view that he's still criminally underrated by most football fans.
 
Mainoo can drop in the back line as Frenkie did at Ajax. We don‘t need that dm/dlp desperately and they are scarce.

Ugarte is the profile we need for pressing and sinking his teeth into the opposition.

There is also Mount to consider who is a good forward passer and crosser. I‘m not convinced he can‘t play the 8 position.
 


Several people have suggested Zubimendi in this thread. Squawka did a comparison between him and Ugarte, and I can see why we are more heavily linked with Ugarte—his profile aligns more closely with our midfield needs.
 


Several people have suggested Zubimendi in this thread. Squawka did a comparison between him and Ugarte, and I can see why we are more heavily linked with Ugarte—his profile aligns more closely with our midfield needs.

He played some delicious lofted passes during the Copa so I'm not that surprised re long passes stats. His passing consistency is definitely inferior though hence why his job is to play the simple pass for the other PSG midfielders to dictate play.

Wish they'd also include the ball carry and # of times fouled stats as Ugarte seems the sort to wriggle his way out of a press and storm forward or draw a foul.
 
Zubimendi having only 52% long pass accuracy :lol: That is beyond awful. How some people concluded that we should go for him? So he’s not a beast defensively and his long passes are shocking. Please, stay clear.
 
Zubimendi having only 52% long pass accuracy :lol: That is beyond awful. How some people concluded that we should go for him? So he’s not a beast defensively and his long passes are shocking. Please, stay clear.

So who should we go for then?
 
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