Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

[Globule]

This is unlikely to happen unless we sell a midfielder first.

Financially or in terms of squad numbers?

I don't think we're financially unable to pull off this deal, and I don't think we should be relying on players moving on.

Take Casemiro as the example. We're clearly happy to sell, so the options should not be: A) Wait for a Saudi club to buy or, if that fails B) Regular starter for us.

Most of our midfielders fall into the same bracket. We're happy to sell at a fair price because they should not be regular starters, but we're going to be forced to start them regularly because of a lack of alternative options. We should be upgrading our midfield regardless. It shouldn't be reliant on whether one of our disposable players finds a club willing to pay a fair price and offer them a deal their willing to accept.

 

[didz]

I think people are going to be in for a massive shock if they think this guy alone shores up midfield.

He's definitely a significant downgrade on season one Casemiro, but I do think he'd add a lot of value to the squad if we can get him in on loan. We don't know what Cas we'll get at the moment, after all.

seems like a good option for the 1 in the 3-1-6 attack structure we worked with for most of last season, and at least a decent upgrade for a 2 with an inverted fullback

Really don't see that. The pivot in that scenario needs to be able to play on the turn. Ugarte would be better higher up to counter press, or at least alongside somebody in a two who can sit in while he goes a-ballwinning.

If you think of Ugarte like a poor man's Kante, the Frenchman was always at his most effective alongside a sitter with some playmaking ability.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You may be correct but football isn't always linear.

He may not fit in with the way PSG want him to play but he may very well fit into the role we have in mind for him. Yoro and Lisandro both look to be good at progressing the ball forward, so that should help with how we function as a unit.

Well that’s the point. I’m not convinced by our supposed vision given we hired a possession based manager who came in and played shit on a stick counter attacking footy. The Casemiro signing was the first alarm bell and any signing in the same direction will create similar concerns.

A full 90 compilation against a PL team, to give a more accurate idea of the type of player he is.

Ngl, he looks too limited to me. Similar to a Schneiderlin, great defensive stats, but perhaps not good enough at the highest level.

Yeah, I can’t sugar coat it. Based on all the clips, he looks poor on the ball. Seems we are trying to sign an Awb in midfield. Unless he’s reasonable and intended to eventually he backup, it’s not the sort of player I want to sign.

 

[DJ_21]

Financially or in terms of squad numbers?

I don't think we're financially unable to pull off this deal, and I don't think we should be relying on players moving on.

Take Casemiro as the example. We're clearly happy to sell, so the options should not be: A) Wait for a Saudi club to buy or, if that fails B) Regular starter for us.

Most of our midfielders fall into the same bracket. We're happy to sell at a fair price because they should not be regular starters, but we're going to be forced to start them regularly because of a lack of alternative options. We should be upgrading our midfield regardless. It shouldn't be reliant on whether one of our disposable players finds a club willing to pay a fair price and offer them a deal their willing to accept.

I was thinking more of squad numbers. If we fail to sell any of the midfielders that we’re suppose to be then we’re left with more players than what’s needed. It can also have something to do with it financially as we’d prefer to get players of the books. My preferred option would be to sell 2 midfielders. Sign Ugarte and then promote a youth midfielder, whoever impresses on tour. They won’t be bothered with a bench role and minutes in league cup games. Everyone’s happy then

 

[Ali Dia]

Wake up babe LuckyScout78 just posted on redcafe

 

[Globule]

I was thinking more of squad numbers. If we fail to sell any of the midfielders that we’re suppose to be then we’re left with more players than what’s needed. It can also have something to do with it financially as we’d prefer to get players of the books. My preferred option would be to sell 2 midfielders. Sign Ugarte and then promote a youth midfielder, whoever impresses on tour. They won’t be bothered with a bench role and minutes in league cup games. Everyone’s happy then

Yeah, we would have more numbers than ideal, if we buy without selling and the risk of that is discontent within the squad. But the options we currently have just aren't good enough. What if we fail to offload them? Then those same players will be starting regularly for us out of necessity.

My view is that we should be pushing ahead with upgrading our midfield regardless, and hopefully that forces the issue with some players leaving.

 

[JJ12]

Well that’s the point. I’m not convinced by our supposed vision given we hired a possession based manager who came in and played shit on a stick counter attacking footy. The Casemiro signing was the first alarm bell and any signing in the same direction will create similar concerns.


Yeah, I can’t sugar coat it. Based on all the clips, he looks poor on the ball. Seems we are trying to sign an Awb in midfield. Unless he’s reasonable and intended to eventually he backup, it’s not the sort of player I want to sign.

The Casemiro signing was fine his first season, we played well in large parts. We were never playing 'possession based football' with the set of players we have. Ten Hag said as such himself.

Having somebody in that position with legs and the ability to break up play will be important. Whether Ugarte is the answer I don't know but the profile is right.

Having a back 4 that stays fit is more important than anything.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The Casemiro signing was fine his first season, we played well in large parts. We were never playing 'possession based football' with the set of players we have. Ten Hag said as such himself.

Having somebody in that position with legs and the ability to break up play will be important. Whether Ugarte is the answer I don't know but the profile is right.

Having a back 4 that stays fit is more important than anything.

This set of players is never winning a major trophy for us anyway. The point was to hire a manager to change the way we play and the personal whenever needed to make that happen. Both the manager and somehow the fans seem to be confused by the idea of genuine transformation which is needed to reach the top.

 

[Infra-red]

A full 90 compilation against a PL team, to give a more accurate idea of the type of player he is.

Ngl, he looks too limited to me. Similar to a Schneiderlin, great defensive stats, but perhaps not good enough at the highest level.

I think for a transition team, this is fine. He wouldnt be suited to playing at the base of midfield for City, but we struggle to get even 30% possession when we play City and we need a ball-winner to replace Casemiro.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think for a transition team, this is fine. He wouldnt be suited to playing at the base of midfield for City, but we struggle to get even 30% possession when we play City and we need a ball-winner to replace Casemiro.

How long will we accept being a transition team? Do we ever want to profess from a top 3-7 team to a genuine challenger?

 

[joobier]

How long will we accept being a transition team? Do we ever want to profess from a top 3-7 team to a genuine challenger?

He doesn't mean we are a team in transition but rather we are a team that plays transition football.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He doesn't mean we are a team in transition but rather we are a team that plays transition football.

That’s what I mean too. We have to move beyond transition footy and learn how to play football matches in the opponents half in congested spaces if we are ever to again become a great team.

 

[Dominos]

The Casemiro signing was fine his first season, we played well in large parts. We were never playing 'possession based football' with the set of players we have. Ten Hag said as such himself.

Well, surely the goal is you sign technically good players and gradually improve the style and quality of the team? Rather than just abandon the idea of having players who can keep possession of a football.

Last season we were even worse on the ball than we were under Ole. It's quite an achievement to make this team worse at passing the ball than Ole's team.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Looks a battler alright but limited on the ball as others have said. €40-50m should be the max we pay.
I think we’d also need another midfielder who is better in possession.
Strange we’re not trying for J Neves given it looks like Benfica will accept less than €100m

 

[JJ12]

This set of players is never winning a major trophy for us anyway. The point was to hire a manager to change the way we play and the personal whenever needed to make that happen. Both the manager and somehow the fans seem to be confused by the idea of genuine transformation which is needed to reach the top.

We have changed the way we play, it isn't possession based. We are also changing personnel with a plan. Not sure why you think it has to be possession based football.

 

[flappyjay]

Well, surely the goal is you sign technically good players and gradually improve the style and quality of the team? Rather than just abandon the idea of having players who can keep possession of a football.

Last season we were even worse on the ball than we were under Ole. It's quite an achievement to make this team worse at passing the ball than Ole's team.

We would have moved the needle had we decided to get technically excellent players over the last two summers. Instead 2 years after Ole we are still poor in possession and our transfer work isn't addressing the issue.

 

[JJ12]

Well, surely the goal is you sign technically good players and gradually improve the style and quality of the team? Rather than just abandon the idea of having players who can keep possession of a football.

Last season we were even worse on the ball than we were under Ole. It's quite an achievement to make this team worse at passing the ball than Ole's team.

I think we have plenty of players who good on the ball. I don't think having Ugarte play a specific role changes that.

 

[Alemar]

Where all this “Ugarte is poor on the ball” stuff comes from? He is from Uruguay, and South Americans are usually good on the ball. He plays for their National team as well (so plays against the likes of Neymar and Messi regularly).

Compared to McTominay, Ugarte on the ball is a Neymar himself.

 

[Lash]

A full 90 compilation against a PL team, to give a more accurate idea of the type of player he is.

Ngl, he looks too limited to me. Similar to a Schneiderlin, great defensive stats, but perhaps not good enough at the highest level.

This isn't very fair to hold it as an accurate representation of him, because if you give me Mbappes compilation from that match, you'll come away thinking he's shit too.

You can get his 90 mins against Arsenal in the Europa where we was a key player all game - granted he did get himself sent off, but the main point is you can't just pick a rubbish game and say that's an accurate representation of him.

 

[Infra-red]

That’s what I mean too. We have to move beyond transition footy and learn how to play football matches in the opponents half in congested spaces if we are ever to again become a great team.

I don't see any of that happening in the short term. Ten Hag has set his stall out as a transitions-based coach at United as he believes that this strategy suits United's squad best. United have just extended his contract. I think we know how we will play over the next couple of years and it is not going to be Guardiola style possession football. Ugarte seems to me to be a decent fit as a Casemiro replacement in Ten Hag's system.

 

[Brightonian]

Watch full games from him, not clips. He's not poor on the ball at all. He plays a limited role but to my eye he delivers every element of that role to a very high level. High volume, high work-rate defending. High volume, conservative, high-accuracy passing. Doesn't stray outside his half and doesn't do much progressive football except for secure long passing (diagonals to free wingers etc). Good technique allows him to be reliable in possession and when pressed.

For other sides that might be a really limited, insufficient footballer. But for us, with no reliable defensive midfielders and the likes of Bruno, Mainoo, Mount, McTominay all supplying various kinds of attacking/progressive midfield play and needing a reliable shield behind them and lots of service, he's perfect.

 

[1988]

I want this to happen so it's probably not going to happen. But I do fancy myself defensive midfielders.

 

[Pronewbie]

Where all this “Ugarte is poor on the ball” stuff comes from? He is from Uruguay, and South Americans are usually good on the ball. He plays for their National team as well (so plays against the likes of Neymar and Messi regularly).

Compared to McTominay, Ugarte on the ball is a Neymar himself.

Yeah I have no idea what the highlights are showing for posters to come to such a conclusion. He's press resistant and has the @Yagami seal of approval in that regard. The concerns about his passing range and consistency for a top team is valid, but it's rare to find a DM who can do it all on the market.

As an aside - it's possible to be a top team without playing like the Spanish managers (and their metronome DM). We'd just be a cheap knock-off anyway.

 

[Phil]

Worth giving this guy on twitter a follow. Interesting compilations and analysis you don't usually get on youtube.

Not the best…

 

[Baneofthegame]

Yeah I have no idea what the highlights are showing for posters to come to such a conclusion. He's press resistant and has the @Yagami seal of approval in that regard. The concerns about his passing range and consistency for a top team is valid, but it's rare to find a DM who can do it all on the market.

As an aside - it's possible to be a top team without playing like the Spanish managers (and their metronome DM). We'd just be a cheap knock-off anyway.

I think the problem is that they allegedly want €70 million for him, so we would need someone who either has world class potential or is world class for that amount of money.

 

[MadDogg]

Might be the quality of the league but he looks outrageous here.

Here he looks very, very good.

Worth giving this guy on twitter a follow. Interesting compilations and analysis you don't usually get on youtube.

Here (and in the Newcastle video) he looks average at best.

Unfortunately, you would think the latter would be a more accurate example of his ability (if it is accurately the last 25 examples), rather than a more cherry-picked compilation of good moments. Alternatively maybe he was just in a run of bad form towards the end of the season, so hopefully that isn't representative of his normal level. Apparently he was one of the best midfielders at the Copa America, so there's a lot of different possibilities. If we do sign him we'll just have to wait and see how things go.

 

[DJ_21]

Yeah, we would have more numbers than ideal, if we buy without selling and the risk of that is discontent within the squad. But the options we currently have just aren't good enough. What if we fail to offload them? Then those same players will be starting regularly for us out of necessity.

My view is that we should be pushing ahead with upgrading our midfield regardless, and hopefully that forces the issue with some players leaving.

I can see Casemiro leaving for one last big pay cheque to Saudi. I can also see Mctominay wanting to leave for regular first team football. It just depends on how much we want for them and if anyone matches what we want. Don’t we have like 3 London teams in a bidding war for Mctominay? Hopefully he gets sold but I wouldn’t be to much bothered if he stayed as a squad option as he’s proved useful off the bench last season. Casemiro going will free up funds and a lot of wages.

 

[sullydnl]

Ugarte's base defensive and passing stats from the last three seasons:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Speaking generally, if someone is as much of a monster defensively as those stats suggest he is then I'm not sure they need to be much more than as secure in possession as those stats also suggest he is in order to add a lot of value to a CL-level team. At least if what you want/need to add to your midfield as a priority is someone who is really good at defending.

 

[horsechoker]

More incentive to get him now that Amrabat is not being signed.

 

[Wezzaldo]

Ugarte's base defensive and passing stats from the last three seasons:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Speaking generally, if someone is as much of a monster defensively as those stats suggest he is then I'm not sure they need to be much more than as secure in possession as those stats also suggest he is in order to add a lot of value to a CL-level team. At least if what you want/need to add to your midfield as a priority is someone who is really good at defending.

Agreed. Also, I think you could see a resurgent Casimero next to him, as Ugarte will be the legs. Be a great option to give Mainoo some much needed rotation this season.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Agreed. Also, I think you could see a resurgent Casimero next to him, as Ugarte will be the legs. Be a great option to give Mainoo some much needed rotation this season.

Ugarte shielding, Casemiro box to box and Mainoo further ahead seems like a very solid midfield to me

 

[Alemar]

Ugarte's base defensive and passing stats from the last three seasons

Those are just monstrous stats. It doesn’t get better than that defensively - half the parameters are at 99, many others are nearabouts

 

[FrankDrebin]

Ugarte shielding, Casemiro box to box and Mainoo further ahead seems like a very solid midfield to me

Mainoo is the only one I feel confident in his ability in keeping the ball.
Ugarte's strengths seem to be without it (ball) than with it.
And Casemiro can go from looking like one of our best players to one of our worst within minutes.

 

[Highfather_24]

neither does he look particularly physically imposing standing at around 5'9, even though Google tells us he's 6ft tall.

I genuinely thought he was 6ft, which is why I thought he can be a good Casemiro/Amrabat replacement. Surely this is false?

Why doesnt Lisandro Martinez claim 6ft too, this is insane if true

 

[bosskeano]

A full 90 compilation against a PL team, to give a more accurate idea of the type of player he is.

Ngl, he looks too limited to me. Similar to a Schneiderlin, great defensive stats, but perhaps not good enough at the highest level.

interesting comment from the man behind the mic aroudn the 50 second mark...you could hear him say "he's doing the job of 2 men"

 

[Highfather_24]

interesting comment from the man behind the mic aroudn the 50 second mark...you could hear him say "he's doing the job of 2 men"

Yeah, because he was double teamed by the attackers in that play, wouldnt read too much into that.

 

[Lemoor]

Ngl, he looks too limited to me. Similar to a Schneiderlin, great defensive stats, but perhaps not good enough at the highest level.

Schneiderlin was another one of the "not the actual 6, but looks like he could be converted into one at United". With Ugarte at least there is no doubt that he can function in that role.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I give Ugarte the slight benefit of the doubt primarily because that was comfortably Newcastle's best performance in a decade.
I think they won 4-1. Was a ridiculous game from the Geordies.

 

[Highfather_24]

Schneiderlin was another one of the "not the actual 6, but looks like he could be converted into one at United". With Ugarte at least there is no doubt that he can function in that role.

He's more of a Kante style defensive mid, who's a rabid ball winner, not someone who sits and maintains defensive shape as the lone #6.

 

[pogbasformerbarber]

Based on what I've seen and feedback from a couple of the Sporting posters, Ugarte's an upgrade over Palhinha. Sporting were apparently playing Ugarte ahead of Palhinha and were happy to move the latter on.

It could also be why PSG are demanding a higher fee that what Bayern paid for Palhinha. I just hope we manage to negotiate a good fee and get him in before he's scheduled to return to training.

To be fair to Palhinha clearly showed he can handle and thrive in the EPL, and not all DCM's can when switching leagues. I think Ugarte has the tools and skill though, and thats why I'm very excited about this signing; even 90% of 23/24 Palhinha is exactly what we needed on the squad last year. Also, Palhinha is 29, Ugarte is 23. A 23 year old coming into his prime is always going to be more expensive than a proven 29 year old even if they are slightly better.

But we are splitting hairs here...Ugarte, for me, will have a much greater impact on the squad for NEXT SEASON than any of the other higher profile signings. Like I said he;s exactly what our squad needs right now...