Is Ugarte the optimal solution?
I like the energy and fight he'd bring, but he's not the most disciplined positionally. I think with Ugarte and Mainoo we would still see opponents run through our midfield.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
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Is Ugarte the optimal solution?
I like the energy and fight he'd bring, but he's not the most disciplined positionally. I think with Ugarte and Mainoo we would still see opponents run through our midfield.
Ruiz isn't a DM though. Wharton would require basically spanking the rest of our budget on (and even then Palace don't need to sell), he'll end up costing what Rice cost when he moves. Zubimendi is quality but I don't think it's a Yoro situation there. Caqueret is another that is far more similar to Mainoo's position than an actual DM. Pepelu is interesting but he's hardly some bastion of tempo setting, Carrick-esque passing.
Point being, first and foremost we need a true DM to shield the back 4. Ideally yes that player is basically the next Rodri that can physically dominate in tackles/interceptions while also being brilliant on the ball, but the fact is those players hardly exist in football and when they do they aren't cheap. If we just signed some languid passer that didn't offer a lot defensively we'd be a train wreck considering you and I both know Ten Hag isn't going to suddenly turn us into Man City in terms of wanting to hoard possession.
Agree on Atletico, that makes sense.
Not sure about Juventus as they are buying todibo and they need to sell in order to buy Sancho (who they have been strongly linked with).
Don't know enough about Milan midfield setup.
Inter maybe? Is he needed in the 352 that inter play? Or Conte's Napoli?
As for PL, I was thinking Liverpool or Newcastle. Though arsenal aren't a bad shout. Chelsea have caicedo and Enzo so no room there. But they are a basket case when it comes to transfers.
Agree we could outbid them all.
Because in every transition they'd be dominated considering we probably won't veer much from our style of play.
Neves and Mainoo as dual CM's in front of a true anchor would be the foundations of a world class midfield of course, but things get much trickier when you factor Bruno in and where he thrives and does well.
João Neves was alledgly the No1 target as he can play as a 6 or 8. But too expensive for us.
Ugarte would be a better fit for our midfield currently yes, no question in my mind
maybe not optimal but much closer to it
All this talk about €70m but the first item in this thread says he has a €60m release clause. Was that a fib, or is it just that United would want to negotiate a few that can be spread over multiple years?
It's pretty clear that Ugarte is another De Ligt, I suspect we are prioritising someone else and using Ugarte as a fallback if it doesn't come through.
Ugarte will cover more area than both Mainoo and Neves.
Can't see it being Neves due to price,so are we looking at someone not even mentioned yet?
played 25 matches in Ligue 1, 5 yellow cards, no reds.
76 matches in Portugal, 19 yellow, 1 red card.
76 matches in Portugal, 19 yellow, 1 red card.
I'm less sure. I really like him and have for a long time - but I don't think he's going to come in alongside Mainoo and Bruno to be the solution you think he is. He'll help in the press and he'll bring a lot of energy and dog, but he won't sit and shield the back 4 which is a big weakness we have, and he won't progress the ball forward from deep which is another big weakness we have.
Is that what we're lacking though? Fred covered a shitload of area.
We need someone disciplined to give us shape and protection, and who can dictate play from deep. How much area does Rodri cover?
Ugarte is more defensive and better in the ball. Fred is probably better going forward.
to be honest I am not exactly fist-pumping at the idea if the price is as high as being quoted in recent pages.. I thought we might be picking him up on the cheap or loan in which case I love the idea
he's decent at progressive ball-carrying from deep. But yes, not adept at line-breaking passes I agree.
My only worry is looking at his stats for how often he gets dribbled and dispossessed. He commits to a shit load of tackles so while he wins a lot he loses a lot and that was a big problem with Casemiro last year with how he was deployed. One mistimed tackled higher up the pitch from him and teams just run through our midfield for attempts at goal.
If EtH tries to play the same way as last season, Ugarte will cover more ground than Casemiro but we’ll still have the same problems so he has to change his tactics.
His miscontrols and dispossessed stats also look pretty bad so I certainly don’t want him in front of the back four as a lone DM. Ideally you want him played like Kante who was always at his best with someone sitting behind.
If EtH tries to play the same way as last season, Ugarte will cover more ground than Casemiro but we’ll still have the same problems so he has to change his tactics.
His miscontrols and dispossessed stats also look pretty bad so I certainly don’t want him in front of the back four as a lone DM. Ideally you want him played like Kante who was always at his best with someone sitting behind.
Who could be the primary target then? It must be a very good CDM
I like the thought of INEOS deliberately laying fake trails so they can get on with their real business behind the scenes.
I hope we can somehow hijack Joao Neves transfer to PSG, though I doubt we have the budget for such a move. I don’t know what happened with Ugarte at PSG, but he was outstanding at Sporting. I hope we sign Ugarte for no more than 50m euro. Hopefully, we offload Casemiro, McTominay, Eriksen and Amrabat and bring in another quality midfielder. With Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount, a new midfielder, and Collyer in the mix, our midfield should be in good shape for next season.
Actually kinda surprised that they thought Onana was more gettable than Ugarte. The posturing from Everton at the beginning of the window was that they wanted 70m for Onana as well I think?
We have Casemiro, Mctominay, Eriksen and Hannibal all as saleble assets.
Per 90 between Ugarte, Neves, Rice, Casemiro and Rodri last season.
Ugarte passes a lot more in his own half, less forward passes than Rodri , doesn't seem to dribble much, not much of an aerial presence and ground duels he's not exactly stellar.
Then again this was at PSG so it might not be a full reflection of his ability, and might be a system thing.
de Ligt is still going to join the club though. There is not a huge rush like there was for Yoro. Yoro was signed pretty fast because of Real Madrid.
United are the only club in for de Ligt.
Don’t forget the American presidency too.
Yeah would love us to be doing that under the radar, however like you said there is no chance we have the budget for the move unfortunately. Might feel differently if we could sell Casemiro & McTominay before PSG seal it which looks highly unlikely.
Good post.
You need to take that optimism to his thread
If the club aren't looking for a deeper lying playmaker and they want to bring in a player to play in a double midfield pivot then there's quite a few options. There's a player at Hoffenheim named Anton Stach, who is a defensive box to box player with potentially elite level defensive duel winning ability. And the way he's utilised at the club is to play very vertical with a higher element of risk when it comes to passing the ball. So he's not being asked to play it simple but rather to look to play it forward at every opportunity. Which is likely due to the ideas left behind by Ralf Rangnick where he was big on vertical plays.
I would look to see us take a chance on a player like Stach.
I would look to see us take a chance on a player like Stach.
So he is a ball winning midfielder that runs all day ALA Fred, but can he at least pass? I am not expecting Kroos level passing but competency at the very least?
Interesting shout. We would be taking a chance on him though, as you say, and the odds are stached against him.
You would think Vivell knows about him seeing as he worked in the Bundesliga
The odds do seem Stached against him.
Wouldnt say mobility and aggression are great but thats the same with most of the Spanish midfielders other than Rodri. He's calm and will put in a foot to win the ball but he's not all action charging around like Fred
Benat Prados would be a bit more like that as he reminds me of Ander but he's 180 cm like Zubimendi, while Pepelu is 185 cm. He doesnt always play at Bilbao but hes done well when played
I hope so mate. I'd love to see us take a chance on a player like Anton Stach.
Thanks Ekeke. Hope we have our eyes on maybe a couple of these options if we’re priced out of a deal for Ugarte, who seems to be first option for that midfield.
Yeah those stats don't bode well. Hopefully it's the PSG thing. Any chance you can look at his last Lisbon season for comparison instead?
Per 90 between Ugarte, Neves, Rice, Casemiro and Rodri last season.
Ugarte passes a lot more in his own half, less forward passes than Rodri , doesn't seem to dribble much, not much of an aerial presence and ground duels he's not exactly stellar.
Then again this was at PSG so it might not be a full reflection of his ability, and might be a system thing.
Per 90 between Ugarte, Neves, Rice, Casemiro and Rodri last season.
Ugarte passes a lot more in his own half, less forward passes than Rodri , doesn't seem to dribble much, not much of an aerial presence and ground duels he's not exactly stellar.
Then again this was at PSG so it might not be a full reflection of his ability, and might be a system thing.
Eh?
@TheNewEra, why have you used different competitions for each player?
CL for Ugarte?
EL for Neves?
League Cup for Rice?
Only Rodri and Casimiro using league games?
Neves is 120m.....Ugarte is half that price
Nothing wrong with those stats. He's not a playmaker, he's a ball winner. His passing is unadventurous but safe and secure, he's not useless with the ball and he's not bad under pressure.
I don't want me DM next to Bruno and Mainoo to be someone like Casemiro last season who was giving the ball away every 3 passes. Keep hold of it, play it safe, and give it to the more creative guys.
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