Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement

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OverratedOpinion said:
The type of midfielder who dictates the tempo is a magnet for the ball and has huge numbers of passes typically. Scholes, Carrick, Alonso, Xavi, Busquets, Rodri ect.

Mainoo currently is nearly the opposite of that. Brilliant at a lot of things but usually on the periphery of matches. He is technically excellent so could be transform into that over the years? Sure. He's nothing like that as a player right now and our midfield would benefit hugely from it.
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kid runs the show at 18. behave
 
Very against this signing now after seeing the quoted price. Didn't think his profile suited us anyway. Would much prefer we go back in for Neves.
 
moses said:
You compared him to a sitter who doesn't contribute to the attack. He scored 73 goals from CM at the top level , that's 1 in 8. The assists you posted are 1 in 9. That's not a sitter.
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He was a sitter - but United at the time were so much better than everyone else - so in most games they had their entire team 30-40 yards from the opponents goals. United today have a sitter just outside their own box - United then had a sitter deep inside the opponents half. So yes - he was a sitter. But as I also explained -at the end of his United-career he didn't do what he was told to do - and that's why he was sold
 
clearly given the "value" they are placing on Ugarte and the clear interest they have in Neves.....they want us to fund the other half of the Neves fee as Benfica is not willing to lower the buyout clause for PSG

so....it would be foolish to meet anywhere close to the 70m euros PSG wants for him. Thankfully it looks like this negotiating team isn't like those of the past where they just pay the fee and don't negotiate
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I agree, was need a midfielder with a better range of passing in our midfield.
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I think more than a better passer in the midfield is just another midfielder who can receive the ball under pressure and calmly handle it. Rodri is not necessarily an Alonso type passer, he can hit nice long passes, but the majority of the time he is recycling the ball by receiving it under pressure and in the right positions and getting it to the right people.
 
lysglimt said:
He was a sitter - but United at the time were so much better than everyone else - so in most games they had their entire team 30-40 yards from the opponents goals. United today have a sitter just outside their own box - United then had a sitter deep inside the opponents half. So yes - he was a sitter. But as I also explained -at the end of his United-career he didn't do what he was told to do - and that's why he was sold
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His stats are consistent right across his career. But ok.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
He is our central midfielder with the best range of passing. Ugarte is a better dribbler clearly but seems to run the ball into trouble quite often.
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Casemiro has the best range of passing in our squad?

If that’s who you mean, then I massively disagree. The guy is such a liability with his passing, short or long
 
matherto said:
Considering we're so easy to play through I'd say someone great and interceptions and breaking up play is exactly what we need.
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I don't think the way we played last season is sustainable, regardless of personnel. Sure Ugarte can help break up some of the counter-attacks but he won't be able to stop us from conceding 20+ shots on goal on his own.

Crimson King said:
Rice can charge with it from deep but he isn't exactly a line breaker with his passing. Especially not in the final third. Did you not watch him for England in the euros?

What we need is a Rodri clone, but there just isn't one, so if have to try something else. Also, Ugarte is more than competent on the ball and raises the technical floor of our midfield, if not the ceiling. He just keeps it simple with his passing, which means we'd probably have to find other ways to progress from deep. Probably through Martinez and the FBs, if they can stay fit.
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I did not - I avoided England games mostly as they were boring. But agree that we need a Rodri clone. I would be fine with Ugarte but definitely not at the 70m price range we're being quoted. I'd rather we take a punt on someone Seiwald at a much more reasonable price.
 
moses said:
His stats are consistent right across his career. But ok.
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If you look at his goals - they increased towards the end of his United-career and was good at both Liverpool and Inter - and when his legs started to go when he passed 30 - they dropped down a few goals a season again. That's the danger with stats alone - if you look at that, most people would think - "great he started scoring goals". But that's when Ferguson accused Ince of being too focused on himself - and not enough on doing what he was good at. He participated more in attack - but didn't track back as much as Ferguson wanted.

But my main point was - as a destroyer, Ince was the best I have ever seen at United. Better than Keane in that respect. If an opponent got past Ince on a counter - he would always catch up and win the ball back with a superb tackle. And that means the opponents could never really get out of their half. Time and time again we would attack - and eventually we would score. If we get that with Ugarte - we can start having a much higher line, and we will be a lot less vulnerable on attacking set-pieces
 
leontas said:
I don't think the way we played last season is sustainable, regardless of personnel. Sure Ugarte can help break up some of the counter-attacks but he won't be able to stop us from conceding 20+ shots on goal on his own.
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I can't pretend to know how we'll try to play next season, and to be honest I'm not sure pre season will tell us much either because of how many players will still be on holiday. However, let's give it a go!

One of the biggest issues last season was we pressed high to try and create turnovers which our quick attackers could exploit (which made sense) but also played with a fairly low defensive line. This left a huge amount of space between defence and midfield which our midfielders had to try and cover. Thus, teams just ran through us and we resorted to box defending. This by it's nature led to a high number of shots being conceded. EtH said most of those were 'low risk' chances, and in fairness he wasn't incorrect about that, but it was still horrible to watch and incredibly risky, at best.

I imagine next season we'll try to also play with a high line, as having quicker/aggressive defenders like Martinez, Shaw, and now Yoro, allows that. In this sense, I can see how Ugarte can work. He'd quickly try and recover the ball, and if he's unsuccessful the defensive line shouldn't be far behind him to close off any space. Ugarte isn't as physically dominant as McT but he's better technically and can play a possession game, even though he mostly keeps it safe and leaves the chance creation to others. That's not a bad trait at all, and along with Mainoo would help us maintain control of matches when we want to slow the tempo, which we often struggled to do last season. He'd also help with buildup from the back, as whilst not being super press resistant, like most south american players he's pretty comfortable on the ball.

There's a lots of ifs and buts, and I think a couple of injuries and you're back to square pegs in round holes for these tactics. AWB instead of Dalot at RB, no Martinez or Shaw, greatly hinders deep build up and leads to Onana going more direct. So we need not just better, but more appropriate depth.

I actually think Zirkzee has been signed with this in mind. He's big and strong, and whilst not aerially dominant he has a great touch and turn. Whether dropping deep to pick up from midfield or taking a long ball from Onana out of the air, he can quickly turn defence into attack, especially with the likes of Rashford or Garnacho on the wings.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Its not just ETH. He has told everyone he cant play like that at Utd and has proved it for 2 years. Yet the fans back him and all our new back room staff listened to his plan and said heck yes. We are going to be a 'transition team' for the next few years.
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He can play like that at United and him being unable to is his own failing. As I said, if he continues to aim for the transition team dream, it will end in tears.
 
trevor newnham said:
do we need Rabiot. Collyer looks very promising - the next Mainoo?
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Absolutely, imo. We’ve got three 10s in the squad with Bruno, Mount, Eriksen. A natural 8 who can rotate with Mainoo is a must.

Bruno (Mount)
Mainoo (Rabiot) - Ugarte (Casemiro)

That’s a midfield six I would trust and feel comfortable with making it through a full season with all the fixtures.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
The type of midfielder who dictates the tempo is a magnet for the ball and has huge numbers of passes typically. Scholes, Carrick, Alonso, Xavi, Busquets, Rodri ect.

Mainoo currently is nearly the opposite of that. Brilliant at a lot of things but usually on the periphery of matches. He is technically excellent so could be transform into that over the years? Sure. He's nothing like that as a player right now and our midfield would benefit hugely from it.
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I mean please name one player available that brings all of that while also being able to cope defensively/physically and is available.

People keep mentioning how we need some Kroos-esque tempo setter but there's a reason those players are almost impossible to find. Wharton is probably the only one close and Palace isn't selling him at this point.
 
flameinthesun said:
I think more than a better passer in the midfield is just another midfielder who can receive the ball under pressure and calmly handle it. Rodri is not necessarily an Alonso type passer, he can hit nice long passes, but the majority of the time he is recycling the ball by receiving it under pressure and in the right positions and getting it to the right people.
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I would agree with you but we do generally have a lack of passing ability in the midfield, so we would benefit a huge amount from a bigger passing range.
 
harms said:
Mainoo absolutely doesn't. Hopefully he'll add that to his game but at this point it's one of the areas where he needs to improve a lot.
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I disagree. He absolutely does. You don't have to sit deep to control tempo and he does it very well. He is the only one in the team that knows when to slow down and when to pick up the pace of ball movement. That is tempo control.
 
MadDogg said:
Mainoo certainly doesn't dictate the tempo. Not yet anyway. Obviously the hope is that he develops into doing that over the next few years, but for now he doesn't.
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He absolutely does for Manchester United. He and Martinez.
 
Once McT is sold, this deal will be concluded. The Zirkzee and Yoro deals all coincided with the sales of Greenwood, Kambwala and departure of Varane and this will be no different.
 
Adnan said:
Because Campos bought him for a coach that was sacked and now Luis Enrique who is a proponent of positional play doesn't require a player of Ugarte's profile because he wants to dominate the game on the ball. He wants players who not only retain possession at a good level but also progress the ball forward at a good level.

Ugarte isn't that player and eventhough I do think he would add something to the team, we would still need another midfielder if we want to be more dominant in possession. I think there's some players out there who we could possibly take a chance on. Players like Pepelu at Valencia or Johnny Cardoso at Real Betis who also looks a interesting young 22 year old deeper lying midfielder who reportedly is available for around £20m.
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Cheers!
 
RobbieBerns said:
Absolutely, imo. We’ve got three 10s in the squad with Bruno, Mount, Eriksen. A natural 8 who can rotate with Mainoo is a must.

Bruno (Mount)
Mainoo (Rabiot) - Ugarte (Casemiro)

That’s a midfield six I would trust and feel comfortable with making it through a full season with all the fixtures.
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How would you feel if we lined up with Mount, Rabiot and Casemiro for 2,3 matches?
 
V.O. said:
I really like the look of Atalanta's Ederson for the spot. Incredible engine, good physicality, wins his duels, solid enough on the ball, probably contributes a bit more going forward than Ugarte. He was absolutely everywhere in both legs against Liverpool when Atalanta beat them in the Europa, and likewise in the final against Leverkusen.
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Yeah ideally we could sign both of them as they have slightly different midfield profiles
 
LawCharltonBest said:
So what's the likely deal to be if it happens?

£50m + 5m in add ons? It says they want 70m euros, that works out as a total package of just over 65m euros.
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50M EUR tops. They're not getting anything close to 70.

Adnan said:
Because Campos bought him for a coach that was sacked and now Luis Enrique who is a proponent of positional play doesn't require a player of Ugarte's profile because he wants to dominate the game on the ball. He wants players who not only retain possession at a good level but also progress the ball forward at a good level.

Ugarte isn't that player and eventhough I do think he would add something to the team, we would still need another midfielder if we want to be more dominant in possession. I think there's some players out there who we could possibly take a chance on. Players like Pepelu at Valencia or Johnny Cardoso at Real Betis who also looks a interesting young 22 year old deeper lying midfielder who reportedly is available for around £20m.
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Just having that destroyer profile in the squad is useful both in the short / long term even if we eventually get someone who can sit and dictate the game. So I'm fine with us hobbling along for another season with Ugarte - Mainoo at CM. Or even Ugarte - Mount. (I'm secretly still of the opinion that Mount is going to do fine in the Mainoo role but don't want to say it out too loud because all of the Caf decided to make him the poster boy for the previous regime's failures.)

If the ball progression can come from other players I don't know if such a player is strictly needed positional play or not. City got it done with Fernandinho, Liverpool with Fabinho etc. so I think we'll wait and see the results of the defence being re-worked, players being fit, Mainoo evolving even more and then find that playmaker if we really need one.
 
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BenitoSTARR said:
If we want a progressive passer in midfield some of the top ranked ones in Europe’s top 5 leagues that might be buyable
  • Groß
  • Caqueret
  • Guimarães
  • Barella
  • Pepelu
  • Fofana
  • Stiller
  • Ederson
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Would fully expect us to make move for one of these IF Erik decides to value controlling tempo and keeping possession more.
 
Watching a few all touch compilations of this guy since I haven't watched an actual game. Defensively he's fine - he's quick enough, combative, and tackles well from the little I've seen. His passing feels a bit basic though so Mainoo isn't the player who I'd pair him with if I had the choice.





 
NLunited said:
PSG can feck off, go for Neves or a cheaper alternative. Don‘t overpay for cast offs.
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What cheaper alternative you got in mind,will admit I cannot understand not going for Neves if Benfica are willing to sell around €70m when the release clause is €120m
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
PSG need the money for Neves. They will come down on their price for Ugarte soon, as they want to get Neves over the line.
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I see this the other way. They raised the price because Benfica are playing hardball with them. Couple of weeks ago it seemed like 50m was enough.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
That post talked about passing range.
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gotcha....not sure casemiro or eriksen have this broad range of passing

just look at the top teams midfielders....rice, not a massive passing range.....rodri, not a massive passing range....enzo, not a massive passing range....now they might have it but in they way they play as a team it's not often utilized

Ugarte i see more like a rodri type player who wants to break up play and progressive the ball forward to those who have the skill set and are tasked to be the creative sort
 
Moving for Neves now, even if it stretches our budget and means missing out on filling a position elsewhere, would send a good message to clubs like PSG that they need to behave themselves.

Wasn't Lindelof a big hit down there? Let's try and use him in the deal. We can sub some of his wages if necessary.
 
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