I have not picked out any stats btw. These are the default stats datamb uses.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
- Thread starter WeePat
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I agree, was need a midfielder with a better range of passing in our midfield.
Can we do a player swap with Rashford?
He was a sitter - but United at the time were so much better than everyone else - so in most games they had their entire team 30-40 yards from the opponents goals. United today have a sitter just outside their own box - United then had a sitter deep inside the opponents half. So yes - he was a sitter. But as I also explained -at the end of his United-career he didn't do what he was told to do - and that's why he was sold
clearly given the "value" they are placing on Ugarte and the clear interest they have in Neves.....they want us to fund the other half of the Neves fee as Benfica is not willing to lower the buyout clause for PSG
so....it would be foolish to meet anywhere close to the 70m euros PSG wants for him. Thankfully it looks like this negotiating team isn't like those of the past where they just pay the fee and don't negotiate
so....it would be foolish to meet anywhere close to the 70m euros PSG wants for him. Thankfully it looks like this negotiating team isn't like those of the past where they just pay the fee and don't negotiate
I think more than a better passer in the midfield is just another midfielder who can receive the ball under pressure and calmly handle it. Rodri is not necessarily an Alonso type passer, he can hit nice long passes, but the majority of the time he is recycling the ball by receiving it under pressure and in the right positions and getting it to the right people.
His stats are consistent right across his career. But ok.
Casemiro has the best range of passing in our squad?
If that’s who you mean, then I massively disagree. The guy is such a liability with his passing, short or long
Both Eriksen and Bruno are comfortably better.
umm...no. his legs are worse than Casemiro's
I don't think the way we played last season is sustainable, regardless of personnel. Sure Ugarte can help break up some of the counter-attacks but he won't be able to stop us from conceding 20+ shots on goal on his own.
I did not - I avoided England games mostly as they were boring. But agree that we need a Rodri clone. I would be fine with Ugarte but definitely not at the 70m price range we're being quoted. I'd rather we take a punt on someone Seiwald at a much more reasonable price.
That’s not in question though
If you look at his goals - they increased towards the end of his United-career and was good at both Liverpool and Inter - and when his legs started to go when he passed 30 - they dropped down a few goals a season again. That's the danger with stats alone - if you look at that, most people would think - "great he started scoring goals". But that's when Ferguson accused Ince of being too focused on himself - and not enough on doing what he was good at. He participated more in attack - but didn't track back as much as Ferguson wanted.
But my main point was - as a destroyer, Ince was the best I have ever seen at United. Better than Keane in that respect. If an opponent got past Ince on a counter - he would always catch up and win the ball back with a superb tackle. And that means the opponents could never really get out of their half. Time and time again we would attack - and eventually we would score. If we get that with Ugarte - we can start having a much higher line, and we will be a lot less vulnerable on attacking set-pieces
I can't pretend to know how we'll try to play next season, and to be honest I'm not sure pre season will tell us much either because of how many players will still be on holiday. However, let's give it a go!
One of the biggest issues last season was we pressed high to try and create turnovers which our quick attackers could exploit (which made sense) but also played with a fairly low defensive line. This left a huge amount of space between defence and midfield which our midfielders had to try and cover. Thus, teams just ran through us and we resorted to box defending. This by it's nature led to a high number of shots being conceded. EtH said most of those were 'low risk' chances, and in fairness he wasn't incorrect about that, but it was still horrible to watch and incredibly risky, at best.
I imagine next season we'll try to also play with a high line, as having quicker/aggressive defenders like Martinez, Shaw, and now Yoro, allows that. In this sense, I can see how Ugarte can work. He'd quickly try and recover the ball, and if he's unsuccessful the defensive line shouldn't be far behind him to close off any space. Ugarte isn't as physically dominant as McT but he's better technically and can play a possession game, even though he mostly keeps it safe and leaves the chance creation to others. That's not a bad trait at all, and along with Mainoo would help us maintain control of matches when we want to slow the tempo, which we often struggled to do last season. He'd also help with buildup from the back, as whilst not being super press resistant, like most south american players he's pretty comfortable on the ball.
There's a lots of ifs and buts, and I think a couple of injuries and you're back to square pegs in round holes for these tactics. AWB instead of Dalot at RB, no Martinez or Shaw, greatly hinders deep build up and leads to Onana going more direct. So we need not just better, but more appropriate depth.
I actually think Zirkzee has been signed with this in mind. He's big and strong, and whilst not aerially dominant he has a great touch and turn. Whether dropping deep to pick up from midfield or taking a long ball from Onana out of the air, he can quickly turn defence into attack, especially with the likes of Rashford or Garnacho on the wings.
He can play like that at United and him being unable to is his own failing. As I said, if he continues to aim for the transition team dream, it will end in tears.
That post talked about passing range.
PSG need the money for Neves. They will come down on their price for Ugarte soon, as they want to get Neves over the line.
Absolutely, imo. We’ve got three 10s in the squad with Bruno, Mount, Eriksen. A natural 8 who can rotate with Mainoo is a must.
Bruno (Mount)
Mainoo (Rabiot) - Ugarte (Casemiro)
That’s a midfield six I would trust and feel comfortable with making it through a full season with all the fixtures.
I mean please name one player available that brings all of that while also being able to cope defensively/physically and is available.
People keep mentioning how we need some Kroos-esque tempo setter but there's a reason those players are almost impossible to find. Wharton is probably the only one close and Palace isn't selling him at this point.
I would agree with you but we do generally have a lack of passing ability in the midfield, so we would benefit a huge amount from a bigger passing range.
I disagree. He absolutely does. You don't have to sit deep to control tempo and he does it very well. He is the only one in the team that knows when to slow down and when to pick up the pace of ball movement. That is tempo control.
He absolutely does for Manchester United. He and Martinez.
Once McT is sold, this deal will be concluded. The Zirkzee and Yoro deals all coincided with the sales of Greenwood, Kambwala and departure of Varane and this will be no different.
Cheers!
So what's the likely deal to be if it happens?
£50m + 5m in add ons? It says they want 70m euros, that works out as a total package of just over 65m euros.
How would you feel if we lined up with Mount, Rabiot and Casemiro for 2,3 matches?
Yeah ideally we could sign both of them as they have slightly different midfield profiles
50M EUR tops. They're not getting anything close to 70.
Just having that destroyer profile in the squad is useful both in the short / long term even if we eventually get someone who can sit and dictate the game. So I'm fine with us hobbling along for another season with Ugarte - Mainoo at CM. Or even Ugarte - Mount. (I'm secretly still of the opinion that Mount is going to do fine in the Mainoo role but don't want to say it out too loud because all of the Caf decided to make him the poster boy for the previous regime's failures.)
If the ball progression can come from other players I don't know if such a player is strictly needed positional play or not. City got it done with Fernandinho, Liverpool with Fabinho etc. so I think we'll wait and see the results of the defence being re-worked, players being fit, Mainoo evolving even more and then find that playmaker if we really need one.
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Would fully expect us to make move for one of these IF Erik decides to value controlling tempo and keeping possession more.
Watching a few all touch compilations of this guy since I haven't watched an actual game. Defensively he's fine - he's quick enough, combative, and tackles well from the little I've seen. His passing feels a bit basic though so Mainoo isn't the player who I'd pair him with if I had the choice.
What cheaper alternative you got in mind,will admit I cannot understand not going for Neves if Benfica are willing to sell around €70m when the release clause is €120m
I see this the other way. They raised the price because Benfica are playing hardball with them. Couple of weeks ago it seemed like 50m was enough.
gotcha....not sure casemiro or eriksen have this broad range of passing
just look at the top teams midfielders....rice, not a massive passing range.....rodri, not a massive passing range....enzo, not a massive passing range....now they might have it but in they way they play as a team it's not often utilized
Ugarte i see more like a rodri type player who wants to break up play and progressive the ball forward to those who have the skill set and are tasked to be the creative sort
Moving for Neves now, even if it stretches our budget and means missing out on filling a position elsewhere, would send a good message to clubs like PSG that they need to behave themselves.
Wasn't Lindelof a big hit down there? Let's try and use him in the deal. We can sub some of his wages if necessary.
Wasn't Lindelof a big hit down there? Let's try and use him in the deal. We can sub some of his wages if necessary.
Yeah it really would but with PSG sniffing around need to make some very quick sales
Doubt we’d see all three together unless it’s a League Cup game against a lower league team, but on the off chance they’d be starting together I’d feel more comfortable with the h squad midfield than I’ve been in who knows how long.
Maybe INEOS should see if he's open to leaving Spain,hey it worked with Yoro so ask that question
Exactly as I predicted
They know we hold the cards so these mystery clubs are a desperate attempt to gain some control. It was so predictable this would be leaked.
It would work with the rest of our budget. Presumably we dont have exactly £59 million pounds that PSG apparently want for Ugarte. So take that money and put it with the rest towards a bid. If thats more than PSG are working with thats pretty good because clearly they dont have it.
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