Good post - I think Ugarte is the one who helps rectify the crippling lack of physicality and athleticism in the midfield, and to me that is even more pressing than the ball progression point at the moment. I think we can get by with other avenues to consistently progress the ball (primarily through Shaw/Martinez) but while we have such a physical deficit in the middle of the pitch and can’t win any duels we are liable to concede against almost anyone, and that’s why I like the profile of Ugarte at the moment
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
- Thread starter WeePat
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This probably gets done but not until we’ve sold a couple of midfielders
Ugarte/Mainoo/Bruno gives good balance stat wise, as does Amrabat/Mount/McT.
Mainoo and Mount are good ball progressers, which seems to be the biggest argument against U-gar.
Ugarte and Amrabat have good ball retention. If Amrabat doesn‘t come back, we need another dm with similar traits, ideally someone who is a dlp in addition to a defensive screen.
Or we can bleed in an academy prospect if they are ready.
Mainoo and Mount are good ball progressers, which seems to be the biggest argument against U-gar.
Ugarte and Amrabat have good ball retention. If Amrabat doesn‘t come back, we need another dm with similar traits, ideally someone who is a dlp in addition to a defensive screen.
Or we can bleed in an academy prospect if they are ready.
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Mount 2 seasons ago was statistically the most proportionally progressive carrier of the ball from midfield positions in the PL.
We haven’t had him all season to show what he can bring to our midfield.
I also think Mount has a lot of good things still to give but I'm worried about the way Ten Hag uses him. I only want him in advanced positions either as a CAM or winger. Not playing as an 8. He just is not a central mdifielder and he will never be one.
If Mount starts the season fit and avoids injury then it’ll be like a new signing, one that can progress the play. Ugarte behind will offer Keane-like aggression and protect the back four (or five).
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Well it all depends but I think Ugarte might actually make more sense for what I think Ten Hag will do with this team (even if I’d probably prefer someone with a bit more control but there’s only so many Rodri’s in the world). I also think Mount is an excellent pass and move player.
I could conceivably see in full possession attacks:
Onana
De Ligt ——Martinez
Ugarte
Dalot—— Bruno Mainoo*—— Shaw
Zirkzee
Garnacho——————Rashford
* Or MountDe Ligt ——Martinez
Ugarte
Dalot—— Bruno Mainoo*—— Shaw
Zirkzee
Garnacho——————Rashford
Why is there a general perception that Urgate isn't a ball player, I have been watching loads of clips of him and he is very good with the ball (dribbling), rarely gets dispossessed and has a very good passing range. Is there something I am not seeing.
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I don’t think I’ve ever said he’s not a good player or decent with the ball but he’s not got La Pausa. He’s very much energy, destruction and then get the ball to someone better. Which might suit what we end up doing this season.
To add to this I think our control will come more from having very competent deep passers like Martinez rather than from our holding midfielder.
Oh it wasn't aimed at you, probably because I replied to your post but I was just implying generally he might be a bit underrated with his on the ball attributes.
There is lots of ways this can go. One example based on last season:
De Ligt/Yoro Mainoo Martinez
Dalot U-gar
Garnacho Bruno Rashford-Shaw
Højlund/ZZ
Attacking structure has been 3-2-5 or 3-1-6 or 2-3-5. Mainoo often drops deep to help distribute, either full back likes to come inside or provide overlap with winger.
I agree. I’d rather him further forward with his clever play and movement. He’s to weak to play in CM. But the problem standing in his way is Bruno. I just don’t see how we can utilise them 2 in the same team. Unless we played a diamond but do we even have the squad for that? The FBs will be the only ones providing width which I don’t like. I love exciting wingers that can take on players and score and assist.
Please make this happen!
Fast googling. Santi is a "shit tier" and "should be banned" category.
Not the best source, but still expected.
How reliable?
See him quoted a lot but can’t think of anything he’s ever called first
Ropey at best.
More importantly he's basically never called correctly.
There is a real lack of passing with those midfields.
hope this happens. What i like about all our signings/targets is that there putting us at the top of the list of where they want to go. Ugarte and De Ligt only want us. Which makes it easier as they won’t speak to other clubs unless we can’t agree a fee. It kind of gives us more time.
Might be the quality of the league but he looks outrageous here.
The slightly surprising thing I guess for a player who was away at a tournament for so long, is that it seems the personal terms are the ones that's been agreed and it's the club dialogue - that could have been sorted ojt during the tournaments - that's the part dragging on. Most seem to feel it would be the player term part that would slow down the transfers of those at tournaments.
With player sales, I think we needed to make sure we could get rid of the likes of Greenwood and others of the wage books before engaging in negotiations.
No this is very much what he’s like. He’s a better all round player than many here would have you believe. He’s not a controller type though, he’s very dynamic and that can mean occasionally he gets caught out or loses the ball. He’ll be great for us in transition for example but probably not so good when we are trying to break down teams, which is why the PSG highlights aren’t so good - they are often on top of games. I think he’s made for the premier league and for big games against strong opponents. Think we bought Zirkzee to help against park the bus
Showing my age, but one thing I liked in that video is he wasn’t screaming and rolling around faking injury when he was clattered and fouled.
Any situation that involves Mount and Bruno playing in the same midfield, or any system that accommodates the idea of this, is just going to mean every single opponent carving us open at will exactly like last season, and there really is no signing we can make that will change that.
Someone like this alongside Mainoo or someone else who is actually a midfielder could definitely work, but there is no such thing as a one man midfield and its absolutely bizarre how anyone watched us last season and still talks about accommodating Mount into the equation as if he's somehow going to have turned into a CM while being injured.
Someone like this alongside Mainoo or someone else who is actually a midfielder could definitely work, but there is no such thing as a one man midfield and its absolutely bizarre how anyone watched us last season and still talks about accommodating Mount into the equation as if he's somehow going to have turned into a CM while being injured.
A bit tired of some folks constantly bemoaning the lack of a quality passer over an out and out destroyer types. I swear half the caf would have not wanted Keane at the heart of our midfield because he had 'limited passing ability'. I mean we do have bruno, mainoo and mount for that.
What we don't seem to have its the energy, athleticism and bite in our midfield to counter teams and get possession back or at least harrow the oppositions midfield.
I know it sounds very anti football these days but I'd love to see us playing with quick passing, flying wingers and lethal strikers who are capable of attacking in waves if required and not always look to pass teams to death which Seems like an unhealthy obsession and to me at least. Wish we'd see a throwback to united with a battler in midfield and that's something very eagerly awaited.
What we don't seem to have its the energy, athleticism and bite in our midfield to counter teams and get possession back or at least harrow the oppositions midfield.
I know it sounds very anti football these days but I'd love to see us playing with quick passing, flying wingers and lethal strikers who are capable of attacking in waves if required and not always look to pass teams to death which Seems like an unhealthy obsession and to me at least. Wish we'd see a throwback to united with a battler in midfield and that's something very eagerly awaited.
He’s a world class potential ball winning midfielder. I’m still surprised PSG are not giving him one more season at least
He was also a deep lying playmaker in his younger days in Uruguay. There was suprise when he went to Europe and became a enforcer/destroyer. So the boy can play if required to do so.
Luis Enrique vision is tiki taka/death by a thousand passes football and no room for ugarte in that slow slow fast slow football.
He's a lot better on the ball than he is being given credit for.
Ugarte in front of Yoro and Martinez….
You can tell that he's got that dog in him. Hounding, giving midfielders no time to even think they have time to contemplate their next move.
In dire need of that sort of profile in front of our defence - the sort of player that bigs up everyone's effort because they don't want to look like a lazy feck next to him.
Martinez and him will be like fecking pitbulls in the middle.
Keane was a very good passer of the ball
He was also a very good header of the ball, let alone an excellent shooter of the ball. All that on top of generational ball winning ability and stamina.
That's his point, no?
Yeah good plan and maybe Saudi's will come back in for Casemiro next summer too
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