As much as I want him no way is he worth over 50m. If they won't accept that then walk the feck away.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
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Good idea! British players are known to be such good value for money.... 70m for the Everton defender who would cost 40m if he had any other nationality seems like a great deal!
INEOS targetted him because they could see an opportunity to get him for less than his market value - I'm sure they knew PSG wanted to cash in on him to fund other transfers.
I have faith in them not to overpay. I'm sure sending in a cheeky bid on Neves ourselves might focus PSGs minds.
I have faith in them not to overpay. I'm sure sending in a cheeky bid on Neves ourselves might focus PSGs minds.
didn't psg just sign him last season? Why do they want to sell
Not in the team + Doesn't really suit their style of play + they want to fund their Joao Neves transfer.
We should point to the Di Maria fee and offer them something like €45m+€5m. If they say no then tell them to get fecked
But Rice does progress the ball forward. My point is that Ugarte does neither of those things. He would work well in our press but I don't think he'd be effective against teams with a low block that give us a lot of the ball.
Especially because they’re leveraging this sale for the proceeds of whatever deal they’re cooking up for Neves.
If you’re flogging a player after a year because you want the next best thing, you can’t request a profit
Mainoo certainly doesn't dictate the tempo. Not yet anyway. Obviously the hope is that he develops into doing that over the next few years, but for now he doesn't.
I really want him here but that price is absurd. PSG are living in dreamland if they think they are making a profit on this. €50-€55M is reasonable.
70 million euros for a player they bought for 60 million a year ago and want to sell to fund Joao Neves. Pass, find a cheaper option for sure
Would take him for £42 million euros (£35 million) else we should just use the money for Neves ourselves.
Would take him for £42 million euros (£35 million) else we should just use the money for Neves ourselves.
Yeah I think that some confuse being really good at link up play and slick on the ball with being able to control the pace of the game.
We desperately need a Michael Carrick.
Mainoo is capable of dictating play and growing into that player. His passing isn't expansive, but with the passing that he can do and he does have the natural ability to know how to slow things down, calm the game down, or speed it up.
Our main expansive passing from deep would be handled Martinez, Shaw, Dalot and Yoro/whoever the RCB is.
Hopefully we aren’t stupid enough to do it
They bought him for €60m, for a player they hasn't lived upto their expectations and actively want to ship, they can't expect to make a profit on him.
But he doesn't need to be against teams in a low block? The point of him is he can cover space and win the ball back quickly, higher up the pitch.
It’s clear they need to sell him to sign Neves and we’ve got them by the short and curlies because of it.
Expect another team to suddenly show interest in the next few days…
Expect another team to suddenly show interest in the next few days…
for 60m EUR too.
This was never going to be an easy deal to do. PSG are a club that likes to show everyone the size of their bollocks.
Will be done for around 55m but that's still overpaying really.
Will be done for around 55m but that's still overpaying really.
I hope we are able to secure some kind of loan with an obligation to buy based on meeting certain conditions. Far from sold on him and the price PSG are asking is ridiculous. I won't go higher than €5m loan fee and a €30m - €35m obligation. We gave them di Maria for a €15m+ discount then what we bought him for a year before. It's their time to be reciprocate the favor for a player they want to get rid of this time.
Ander did that. What did you think of him when he was here?
That's not how I interpreted it. He wanted both a destroyer plus FDJ. Whether we were going to get them in the same window was probably unlikely due to the fees and the lack of scouting/alternatives. I think Mainoo's rise has since compensated for not having FDJ or similar in midfield - as that would have been the position/characteristics required from FDJ. Now we still need a DM as Casemiro's seemingly on his last legs.
I loved him, so maybe I'm biased
. I think Ugarte is more combative and better defensively than Ander. Ander had a better passing range/goal threat. I'd take an Ander clone in a heartbeat!Not all midfielders need to be like that no, but I think this particular team needs that in that position. It's one of the things Casemiro still does very well, so are we really progressing if we exchange him for someone who does all the things well that he doesn't, but at the cost of losing the things he's good at? Martinez is very good at it yes, but can we rely on only one player for that?
I didn't say Mainoo isn't a great passer, he is. With him and ball progression (and this goes for carries as well), it's not a question of quality, but of volume: Simply put, he doesn't do very much of it, not so far at least. So unless that changes markedly, he is unlikely to be someone we can rely on to take care of a large part of that particular business.
Not sure why we wouldn’t just buy Neves if the price is 70 millio.
Or got and see how much Porto want for Varela.
Or got and see how much Porto want for Varela.
They are taking the mick. He’s not worth more than 40m. Too limited.
Do not fund their bid for neves
Do not fund their bid for neves
It's not really about technical ability, that is required but you need to have a brilliant picture of the game, always have your next pass planned when recieving the ball and be great at finding space in a midfield.
Mainoo is brilliant but he isn't that type of midfielder. Could he become it? Maybe. It might not even be the best thing for him. I think you put him next to that player and then have him float around using his ability to link play further forward and drive with the ball.
It's interesting, for sure. We are a team who lacks both physicality & the ability to hold on to the ball well, when under pressure. Ideally, it seems all the available "6's" in the market come across as one or the other (think Ugarte versus someone like Zubimendi). Mainoo himself, doesn't seem to be able to cover the ground as quickly on transition.
I won't claim to be too clued up on much outside of United, so I am wondering if there are a few players at the right level who could provide both attributes in that 6 position? Alternatively, Mainoo would need to develop his game - he's already fairly brilliant at holding the ball under pressure/short passing game/link up play etc. but he'd need develop his longer game if we were to sign more of a destroyer type like Ugarte.
I won't claim to be too clued up on much outside of United, so I am wondering if there are a few players at the right level who could provide both attributes in that 6 position? Alternatively, Mainoo would need to develop his game - he's already fairly brilliant at holding the ball under pressure/short passing game/link up play etc. but he'd need develop his longer game if we were to sign more of a destroyer type like Ugarte.
Yes, but again, volume. He simply doesn't do very much of either progressive passing or progressive carries. We tend to notice it when he does, because he has the ability to do it really well. He can influence games with key contributions because of that quality, but overall, the volume of his involvement is really limited. That shows up clearly both to the eye, and statistically. Not many passes, not many carries, not many touches for that matter.
It's a fascinating trait of his profile as a player. Is that because he's young and still learning and it will come, or is there some essential tradeoff there between quality and volume? Is he able to make those quality involvements because he's looking to always be in the smart places to set him up for those, rather than the places where he'd be most in the opposition's way or the easiest option for his teammates? I really can't tell. But in any case, he's not presently someone who actually does a big percentage of the ball progression work on this team.
It was really interesting to see him on England, which after all plays pretty much the exact opposite style to United - priority always on safe ball retention, with attacks tending to be measured and based on possession around the oppo box. He looked great in that setup - that's where he can really do some damage, with his smarts and his amazing technical ability. Dare I say it - he'd be really well suited for a team like City.
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My only hope for PSG to come in for Rashford has gone sadly given their need to sell to bring in Neves.
Is he any good? If we get him next that will be 3 players in I've never seen kick a ball (not counting the Euros for Zirkzee).
Not really, you have clearly picked out certain stats, it's very clear ugarte is better.
I don't think we can find a player to balance this.
No idea who, I also think we probably sign 2 CMs anyway.
There are rumours we attempted to sign Onana recently
May be an incorrect assessment by me, but I naively think if we can dominate the ball higher and have higher turnovers (as in higher up the pitch), those involvements would naturally go up, by virtue of having more possession. I think the most important thing is to stop us being easily countered on and winning the ball back quickly and Ugarte can address that.
About Mainoo, I did a stats analysis (well, using that term loosely) here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/23-24-season-a-look-at-players-stats.483001/
#24.
#24.
I’d say it’s more to do with the fact PL clubs can afford to hold out for higher fees nowadays.
Antony cost 80m, VdB cost 40m.
Caicedo 115m, Fernandez 107m.
Joao Felix 127m, Joao Neves rumoured at 100m+. I can go on…
It’s not just British players.
Mainoo absolutely doesn't. Hopefully he'll add that to his game but at this point it's one of the areas where he needs to improve a lot.
Mainoo literally has those qualities, I'm not talking about his technical ability, I'm talking about his ability to find space always deep and know how to slow things down or speed it up. That's exactly what he does excel in. Being able to make time and space when for others there isn't any. He's only just turned 19, lots of development left to do, but he absolutely is that type of player.
Dictating tempo is so much more than one player, Rodri doesn't solely dictate the tempo for City, the whole team does. No player solely sets the tempo. Ball carrying is also a perfectly viable way of dictating tempo, David Silva used to do it all the time.
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