About Mainoo, I did a stats analysis (well, using that term loosely) here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/23-24-season-a-look-at-players-stats.483001/
#24.
#24.
Manuel Ugarte | Romano - he’s signed | Awaiting Club announcement
- Thread starter WeePat
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I’d say it’s more to do with the fact PL clubs can afford to hold out for higher fees nowadays.
Antony cost 80m, VdB cost 40m.
Caicedo 115m, Fernandez 107m.
Joao Felix 127m, Joao Neves rumoured at 100m+. I can go on…
It’s not just British players.
Mainoo absolutely doesn't. Hopefully he'll add that to his game but at this point it's one of the areas where he needs to improve a lot.
Mainoo literally has those qualities, I'm not talking about his technical ability, I'm talking about his ability to find space always deep and know how to slow things down or speed it up. That's exactly what he does excel in. Being able to make time and space when for others there isn't any. He's only just turned 19, lots of development left to do, but he absolutely is that type of player.
Dictating tempo is so much more than one player, Rodri doesn't solely dictate the tempo for City, the whole team does. No player solely sets the tempo. Ball carrying is also a perfectly viable way of dictating tempo, David Silva used to do it all the time.
Considering we're so easy to play through I'd say someone great and interceptions and breaking up play is exactly what we need.
Winning the ball high up is not easy. You’ll never truly control games until you can build up really well from deep both against low blocks and teams that press you high up. And in paper, not sure Ugarte - Mainoo - Bruno is that great on the ball. Mainoo would again be doing most of the heavy lifting.
Rice can charge with it from deep but he isn't exactly a line breaker with his passing. Especially not in the final third. Did you not watch him for England in the euros?
What we need is a Rodri clone, but there just isn't one, so if have to try something else. Also, Ugarte is more than competent on the ball and raises the technical floor of our midfield, if not the ceiling. He just keeps it simple with his passing, which means we'd probably have to find other ways to progress from deep. Probably through Martinez and the FBs, if they can stay fit.
No but Paul Ince in his prime was the same - but I have never ever seen a player better at breaking down counter-attacks than him.The result was that often when teams tried to counter on us - Ince won the ball, and we could counter back when they were in unbalance.
People shouldn't underestimate how important a player like that is for our attacks
But we don't play like that, we build for quick transitions. Onana, Martinez, Dalot and Shaw set the pressing traps and if they drop deep, we need a player that can cover the space when we push up and when they do counter, snuff them out. I just don't see us becoming a possession oriented team, we never have been and I actually think our fans would hate it.
I imagine we are going after him because we believe his price will be affordable given he didn't make 1st team in France.
What will be nice is we keep negotiating and they think they will have the funds for Neves. Only for us to pull the plug and take Neves instead. Then they can be stuck with Ugarte for another season.
What will be nice is we keep negotiating and they think they will have the funds for Neves. Only for us to pull the plug and take Neves instead. Then they can be stuck with Ugarte for another season.
If Ten Hag doesn’t amend this vision of his, he’ll be gone by the end of the year and he would have learnt nothing from this second life he’d got. We need to become a more possession oriented team - when the right manager does that well, the fans will automatically get over their Barcaphobia.
This made me chuckle. When any of those words are used, usually it's hyperbole. But every word you used here is accurate.
I mean just look at that last minute goal vs Wolves. Before receiving the ball, he has the full picture of every next phase of play, including an incredible understanding of the game to know Forson, who had just come on, will pull the defender away from the middle. There's an underrated and barely noticeable body fake to the left before he moves right,sets the ball up to the now vacant area in the box and curls it in.
It is genuinely one of my favorite ever goals. Of course the circumstances play a part, but the technical precision of every single movement and touch he made, including the finish, it was like he was real Chess piece moving strategically to the target. That alone, literally, exactly, and absolutely proves he has a "a brilliant picture of the game, always have your next pass planned when receiving the ball and be great at finding space in a midfield" to quote the post you were replying to. You simply can't score a goal like that if you don't.
He's clumsy, can't pass the ball, and he was on the piss immediately after the FA cup win before the bus had even left. What more does he have to do to prove his Scottishness?!
If it was just "a player needs to be sold" then I assume it's financial reasons. But why a midfielder?
Unless I'm forgetting someone obvious, we are hardly flush with them.
Also is it just me, or does it feel like when we get the "a player needs to be sold before United can sign X" story each year, that we never actually end up selling anyone?
Casemiro, Hannibal, Eriksen, McTominay, Mainoo, Bruno, Mount and I presume Dan Gore is technically part of the squad?
Looking at that list in 2024, we’re not flushed with any real quality, but I’d expect at least 2 of those need to disappear before the window closes? Preferably Eriksen and Casemiro for me, but if it’s money related then probably Hannibal and McTominay.
Nah - he was rather limited in regards to passing. He could run through lines - but his skills on the ball were limited. He was a destroyer with pace, aggression who could strke the ball well. But creative - he was not
How would that work when Benfica want €100-€120mil for Neves?
Ugarte hasn't had a poor season, he just doesn't fit with the football style Luis Enrique wants to implement.
We aren't the only club with interest in him, they aren't going to take a big loss on him, so it will probably end up being around his original purchase price of €60mil for the deal.
I think you underestimate him going forward, he always drove forward with the ball. Not in a tippy-tappy way but he was very front-footed. He scored a goal every 8 games over his career.
Its not just ETH. He has told everyone he cant play like that at Utd and has proved it for 2 years. Yet the fans back him and all our new back room staff listened to his plan and said heck yes. We are going to be a 'transition team' for the next few years.
Ah it looks more bloated than I thought. Doesn't help that I keep thinking Hannibal was sold with a buy back option, rather than just loaned.
They definitely need more quality in the midfield two. I'd go as far to say Mainoo and Casemiro are the only two natural CM's. One past their best and one still needs time to develop.
No - not really. He could run with the ball yes - but he was not a great passer of the ball, and he was not creative. Did he get into the box and score a few goals, and strike the ball from a distance ? Sure. But Incey's main job was to win the ball back and give it to Cantona, Giggs, Sharpe, Kanchelskis etc.
As he got older and became what Ferguson called "big time Charlie" - he scored more goals, but he stopped tracking back and winning the ball the same way he did in his prime. If you look at Incey's assists in the P.L - they are ridiculously low for a player with close to 10 seasons in the P.L - playing for good sides like United and Liverpool. I think he had 12-13 assists in 110-115 league matches for United - or about 4 a season. When you have Hughes, Cantona, Giggs, Kanchelskis and Sharpe around you - that really isn't impressive.
You compared him to a sitter who doesn't contribute to the attack. He scored 73 goals from CM at the top level , that's 1 in 8. The assists you posted are 1 in 9. That's not a sitter.
Zubimendi would be cheaper
This one looks off IMO. Between what PSG want and us needing to sell a MF.
Its all posturing. PSG want Neves
Fulham will buy McTominay once they've sold Andreas
Incredible conclusion to come to given the news only yesterday from tier 1 sources. You do you.
Apparently doesn't want to leave Spain and might be keen on a switch to Barca. But yeah, one we should definitely try for like we did with Yoro.
The energy that Ince had was colossal
Seeing as we'll obviously sell a midfielder and PSG's obvious wanting to sell him, it's quite a bizarre conclusion to come to. It seems far more likely its a matter of time, just a few dominos need to fall first.
No he isn't. Maybe he will be, but he isn't now. See above posts. It's not about ability, it's about level of involvement. Whenever the ball is moving upfield for United, Mainoo is quite rarely the one doing it. He probably won't give us that, and also probably shouldn't try to be that, at this stage. Be the one who usually moves the ball up, I mean. For now, he's looking pretty good picking his spots.
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We should get Neves!!!
This guy is a squad player with personality. He is not going to take us to the next level.
PSG being cute with this. We should just snipe the Neves bid as a lesson to all these big clubs not to feck us about
The idea Ugarte is a Casemiro on the ball is from people who clearly haven't watched him play ball at any length. I also wouldn't put too much stock in Enrique not picking him. This is the same guy who sends Xavi Simons on loan and regular picks Zaire Emery. He too has his personnel prefferences. He doesn't solely make descisions on technique offered by individual players
Casemiro is far too sloppy on the ball.
The type of midfielder who dictates the tempo is a magnet for the ball and has huge numbers of passes typically. Scholes, Carrick, Alonso, Xavi, Busquets, Rodri ect.
Mainoo currently is nearly the opposite of that. Brilliant at a lot of things but usually on the periphery of matches. He is technically excellent so could be transform into that over the years? Sure. He's nothing like that as a player right now and our midfield would benefit hugely from it.
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